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Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 04:34PM
"Adding an Exchange account will allow the Exchange administrator to remotely manage your device. The administrator can add/remove restrictions and remotely erase your device."

WTF???

... this is my workplace, shifting us all to MS Exchange, for reasons that aren't entirely clear.

Is the above message something to be concerned about? Any workarounds? The creepiness factor just went up to 11.




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: December 15, 2021 04:48PM
That is how it works. If you want your work email on your personal device they want the ability to wipe your device remotely to secure their emails.



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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 15, 2021 04:49PM
Has a cow-orker recently lost a phone with potential copyrighted research on it?

Need more info. It would be a little creepier if they made it an iron clad policy ahead of time but hadn't told anybody first as a way to promote uptake of the new tracking device.



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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: December 15, 2021 04:57PM
This is what we are talking about: [docs.microsoft.com]



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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 05:00PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Has a cow-orker recently lost a phone with potential copyrighted research on it?

Need more info. It would be a little creepier if they made it an iron clad policy ahead of time but hadn't told anybody first as a way to promote uptake of the new tracking device.

To answer your first question, I have no idea.

To address your second point, yes, we are all being told that this is happening (the transition I mean), but nothing was said about using this to track devices.

This is just a big "no" from me. I simply won't use the email on my phone then... which in turns means that I will be a whole lot less available to my students and coworkers.




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 15, 2021 05:23PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Has a cow-orker recently lost a phone with potential copyrighted research on it?

Need more info. It would be a little creepier if they made it an iron clad policy ahead of time but hadn't told anybody first as a way to promote uptake of the new tracking device.

To answer your first question, I have no idea.

To address your second point, yes, we are all being told that this is happening (the transition I mean), but nothing was said about using this to track devices.

This is just a big "no" from me. I simply won't use the email on my phone then... which in turns means that I will be a whole lot less available to my students and coworkers.

You should be able to access your Outlook mail account through Webmail using your phone's browser. You only need your account name and password for that.



It is what it is.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 06:07PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Has a cow-orker recently lost a phone with potential copyrighted research on it?

Need more info. It would be a little creepier if they made it an iron clad policy ahead of time but hadn't told anybody first as a way to promote uptake of the new tracking device.

To answer your first question, I have no idea.

To address your second point, yes, we are all being told that this is happening (the transition I mean), but nothing was said about using this to track devices.

This is just a big "no" from me. I simply won't use the email on my phone then... which in turns means that I will be a whole lot less available to my students and coworkers.

You should be able to access your Outlook mail account through Webmail using your phone's browser. You only need your account name and password for that.

Can do it that way, but it'll be clunky ... and I probably wouldn't have access to features that I commonly use in the Mac OS Mail client...




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 15, 2021 06:26PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Has a cow-orker recently lost a phone with potential copyrighted research on it?

Need more info. It would be a little creepier if they made it an iron clad policy ahead of time but hadn't told anybody first as a way to promote uptake of the new tracking device.

To answer your first question, I have no idea.

To address your second point, yes, we are all being told that this is happening (the transition I mean), but nothing was said about using this to track devices.

This is just a big "no" from me. I simply won't use the email on my phone then... which in turns means that I will be a whole lot less available to my students and coworkers.

You should be able to access your Outlook mail account through Webmail using your phone's browser. You only need your account name and password for that.

Can do it that way, but it'll be clunky ... and I probably wouldn't have access to features that I commonly use in the Mac OS Mail client...

You're right - it will be clunky. But your choices are easy access but Orwellian, clunky access but non-Orwellian, or no access at all.



It is what it is.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: December 15, 2021 06:41PM
Our school district did the same. They even tried to take it a step further - all data would route through the district server. That would allow them to see everything you did on your phone at any time. Even the tech specialists balked at that.



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"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 06:43PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
PeterB
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Has a cow-orker recently lost a phone with potential copyrighted research on it?

Need more info. It would be a little creepier if they made it an iron clad policy ahead of time but hadn't told anybody first as a way to promote uptake of the new tracking device.

To answer your first question, I have no idea.

To address your second point, yes, we are all being told that this is happening (the transition I mean), but nothing was said about using this to track devices.

This is just a big "no" from me. I simply won't use the email on my phone then... which in turns means that I will be a whole lot less available to my students and coworkers.

You should be able to access your Outlook mail account through Webmail using your phone's browser. You only need your account name and password for that.

Can do it that way, but it'll be clunky ... and I probably wouldn't have access to features that I commonly use in the Mac OS Mail client...

You're right - it will be clunky. But your choices are easy access but Orwellian, clunky access but non-Orwellian, or no access at all.

Yup, it seems that way. Do I think they have a right to wipe/shut down our email remotely? Yes-- since it is their email. But do I think they have a right to wipe our devices? Hell naw... the devices and data (other than their data) doesn't belong to them.

I see that this extends not just to phones, but to any MacOS devices too -- so they could wipe my personal computer remotely? Hell naw...




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: rich in distress
Date: December 15, 2021 06:49PM
I guess that’s the reason some people carry around two phones, personal and another provided by their company.
Hm…
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: rgG
Date: December 15, 2021 07:06PM
Yeah, that would be a hard no, even from me.
Plus, there is no guarantee that you haven’t saved any emails you might want, somewhere else.





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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 07:06PM
Quote
rich in distress
I guess that’s the reason some people carry around two phones, personal and another provided by their company.
Hm…

Our organization doesn't provide us with phones! No way would they do that...




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: December 15, 2021 07:24PM
And this is why I have a work phone and a personal phone.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: GGD
Date: December 15, 2021 08:17PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
rich in distress
I guess that’s the reason some people carry around two phones, personal and another provided by their company.
Hm…

Our organization doesn't provide us with phones! No way would they do that...

Seems like an iPod Touch accessing the net via your iPhone in hotspot mode could be a cheap solution to this. I had to check, but Apple still sells the iPod Touch starting at $199 for a 32gb model.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 08:56PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
PeterB
Quote
rich in distress
I guess that’s the reason some people carry around two phones, personal and another provided by their company.
Hm…

Our organization doesn't provide us with phones! No way would they do that...

Seems like an iPod Touch accessing the net via your iPhone in hotspot mode could be a cheap solution to this. I had to check, but Apple still sells the iPod Touch starting at $199 for a 32gb model.

Hmmmm, now you have me thinking -- I do still have my iPhone 6, but I'm still not crazy about the idea that they could wipe my phone and its contents at any time.

Edit: apparently my workplace is recommending that we install the MS Outlook app on our phones, and from what I can see from looking around the web -- using that, limits their ability to wipe the phone. They can still wipe your email, but not the phone itself? ... I was really trying to keep my phones free of this MS garbage.




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2021 08:59PM by PeterB.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: John B.
Date: December 15, 2021 09:13PM
If they deploy Outlook and some other management tools, like Intune, they can selectively control/wipe the corporate data on the phone without touching the personal data.

Part of the reason to require Outlook is to have the control to wipe the corporate email data and/or control where file attachments, etc. go. If they allow the Apple Mail client (or another 3rd party client) to download mail from the corporate mail servers, they lose the ability to wipe that mail data later, without having to have the ability to wipe the entire device.

Two main use cases are: 1) the phone’s owner just left the company and the corporate data access has to be removed and the corporate data deleted, or 2) the phone’s owner lost the phone with corporate data on it and it needs to be removed.

Edited to add: My current employer went to the opposite extreme. I cannot access corporate email using Outlook (or any other mail client) from my personal phone. Only from a corporate-owned device enrolled in our mobile device management system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2021 09:16PM by John B..
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 09:21PM
Quote
John B.
If they deploy Outlook and some other management tools, like Intune, they can selectively control/wipe the corporate data on the phone without touching the personal data.

Part of the reason to require Outlook is to have the control to wipe the corporate email data and/or control where file attachments, etc. go. If they allow the Apple Mail client (or another 3rd party client) to download mail from the corporate mail servers, they lose the ability to wipe that mail data later, without having to have the ability to wipe the entire device.

Two main use cases are: 1) the phone’s owner just left the company and the corporate data access has to be removed and the corporate data deleted, or 2) the phone’s owner lost the phone with corporate data on it and it needs to be removed.

Edited to add: My current employer went to the opposite extreme. I cannot access corporate email using Outlook (or any other mail client) from my personal phone. Only from a corporate-owned device enrolled in our mobile device management system.

All of which would be fine, if this were a corporation we're talking about. It isn't -- it's an educational institution, where an argument could be made that the emails (and the attachments) don't necessarily belong to the institution ... for example, if someone outside the institution emails us with something, just because they're emailing it to us using the institution's email, doesn't mean that that email and the attachment automatically "belongs" to the institution.

Also, my phone and personal computer belong to me, not to my institution ... if they want us using dedicated devices for work-only usage, then they should supply these (as your current employer did), but they haven't.




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: wurm
Date: December 15, 2021 09:27PM
Just one of the reasons I don't get my work email on my phone. The people who need me can always call or text me.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 15, 2021 09:38PM
Quote
wurm
Just one of the reasons I don't get my work email on my phone. The people who need me can always call or text me.

That may be the direction I go... by doing this, they're making it much less likely I check my email outside of using my Macs, and even then, I'm not using something that could be used to potentially wipe my machines.




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: December 15, 2021 10:20PM
Quote
PeterB


All of which would be fine, if this were a corporation we're talking about. It isn't -- it's an educational institution, where an argument could be made that the emails (and the attachments) don't necessarily belong to the institution ... for example, if someone outside the institution emails us with something, just because they're emailing it to us using the institution's email, doesn't mean that that email and the attachment automatically "belongs" to the institution.

You might want to double check that. If this is a public institution any email anyone sends you on your institutional email account absolutely without a doubt no grey area what so ever belongs to your institution. The law is VERY clear on that. You shouldn't be using your institutional email for personal matters. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those emails is subject to review for open records requests.

This is UW Madison's policy, but pretty much every public institution will be very similar: [compliance.wisc.edu]



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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2021 10:27PM by C(-)ris.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 15, 2021 10:42PM
They are providing a profile to expedite setting up your email account for you on your mobile devices. The MDM profile gives them various ways to control your devices, but in most cases it's redundant. I expect that you do not have to use the profile and even if you do use the profile nobody is going to wipe your private BYOD iPhone except by the grossest recklessness or villainy.

...If you know the server-address, email address and password then try setting up the Exchange account in the Mail account settings on your iPhone in the ordinary fashion without the profile. The odds are very good that they left ActiveSync enabled in order to provide access via old versions of Outlook. Apple Mail under iOS has better support for ActiveSync than Microsoft's own products. It'll almost certainly work.



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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: December 16, 2021 07:19AM
Quote
Sarcany
They are providing a profile to expedite setting up your email account for you on your mobile devices. The MDM profile gives them various ways to control your devices, but in most cases it's redundant. I expect that you do not have to use the profile and even if you do use the profile nobody is going to wipe your private BYOD iPhone except by the grossest recklessness or villainy.

...If you know the server-address, email address and password then try setting up the Exchange account in the Mail account settings on your iPhone in the ordinary fashion without the profile. The odds are very good that they left ActiveSync enabled in order to provide access via old versions of Outlook. Apple Mail under iOS has better support for ActiveSync than Microsoft's own products. It'll almost certainly work.

Are you sure about this? Most of my clients had to use the profile in order for iOS Mail to connect to Exchange Mail. I know that we had to delete our exchange account from iOS and use the profile to reconnect. If we didn't, nothing exchange related worked.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 16, 2021 09:11AM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
PeterB


All of which would be fine, if this were a corporation we're talking about. It isn't -- it's an educational institution, where an argument could be made that the emails (and the attachments) don't necessarily belong to the institution ... for example, if someone outside the institution emails us with something, just because they're emailing it to us using the institution's email, doesn't mean that that email and the attachment automatically "belongs" to the institution.

You might want to double check that. If this is a public institution any email anyone sends you on your institutional email account absolutely without a doubt no grey area what so ever belongs to your institution. The law is VERY clear on that. You shouldn't be using your institutional email for personal matters. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those emails is subject to review for open records requests.

This is UW Madison's policy, but pretty much every public institution will be very similar: [compliance.wisc.edu]

This isn't a public institution we're talking about here, and to say that they "own" all the emails and their contents is beyond ludicrous and also violates their own (and multiple others') IP policy. If someone outside the university emails me with, say, a manuscript for publication, that manuscript does NOT belong to the university.




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: December 16, 2021 12:00PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
PeterB


All of which would be fine, if this were a corporation we're talking about. It isn't -- it's an educational institution, where an argument could be made that the emails (and the attachments) don't necessarily belong to the institution ... for example, if someone outside the institution emails us with something, just because they're emailing it to us using the institution's email, doesn't mean that that email and the attachment automatically "belongs" to the institution.

You might want to double check that. If this is a public institution any email anyone sends you on your institutional email account absolutely without a doubt no grey area what so ever belongs to your institution. The law is VERY clear on that. You shouldn't be using your institutional email for personal matters. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those emails is subject to review for open records requests.

This is UW Madison's policy, but pretty much every public institution will be very similar: [compliance.wisc.edu]

This isn't a public institution we're talking about here, and to say that they "own" all the emails and their contents is beyond ludicrous and also violates their own (and multiple others') IP policy. If someone outside the university emails me with, say, a manuscript for publication, that manuscript does NOT belong to the university.

They may "own" all the emails that goes to the corporate/institution's email address. At the very least, they all get saved and are discoverable. This is why I don't understand why anyone would use their work email address for anything other than work needs.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 16, 2021 12:48PM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
PeterB
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
PeterB


All of which would be fine, if this were a corporation we're talking about. It isn't -- it's an educational institution, where an argument could be made that the emails (and the attachments) don't necessarily belong to the institution ... for example, if someone outside the institution emails us with something, just because they're emailing it to us using the institution's email, doesn't mean that that email and the attachment automatically "belongs" to the institution.

You might want to double check that. If this is a public institution any email anyone sends you on your institutional email account absolutely without a doubt no grey area what so ever belongs to your institution. The law is VERY clear on that. You shouldn't be using your institutional email for personal matters. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those emails is subject to review for open records requests.

This is UW Madison's policy, but pretty much every public institution will be very similar: [compliance.wisc.edu]

This isn't a public institution we're talking about here, and to say that they "own" all the emails and their contents is beyond ludicrous and also violates their own (and multiple others') IP policy. If someone outside the university emails me with, say, a manuscript for publication, that manuscript does NOT belong to the university.

They may "own" all the emails that goes to the corporate/institution's email address. At the very least, they all get saved and are discoverable. This is why I don't understand why anyone would use their work email address for anything other than work needs.

What I described WAS an example of a work-related need or use. Nevertheless, the institution doesn't own the contents/attachments of all emails that are sent to an institutional address, for the reasons I mentioned ... it would violate their own as well as other institutions' IP policies, amongst other things.




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: December 16, 2021 02:12PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
PeterB
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
PeterB


All of which would be fine, if this were a corporation we're talking about. It isn't -- it's an educational institution, where an argument could be made that the emails (and the attachments) don't necessarily belong to the institution ... for example, if someone outside the institution emails us with something, just because they're emailing it to us using the institution's email, doesn't mean that that email and the attachment automatically "belongs" to the institution.

You might want to double check that. If this is a public institution any email anyone sends you on your institutional email account absolutely without a doubt no grey area what so ever belongs to your institution. The law is VERY clear on that. You shouldn't be using your institutional email for personal matters. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those emails is subject to review for open records requests.

This is UW Madison's policy, but pretty much every public institution will be very similar: [compliance.wisc.edu]

This isn't a public institution we're talking about here, and to say that they "own" all the emails and their contents is beyond ludicrous and also violates their own (and multiple others') IP policy. If someone outside the university emails me with, say, a manuscript for publication, that manuscript does NOT belong to the university.

They may "own" all the emails that goes to the corporate/institution's email address. At the very least, they all get saved and are discoverable. This is why I don't understand why anyone would use their work email address for anything other than work needs.

What I described WAS an example of a work-related need or use. Nevertheless, the institution doesn't own the contents/attachments of all emails that are sent to an institutional address, for the reasons I mentioned ... it would violate their own as well as other institutions' IP policies, amongst other things.

They own the email and the specific digital files attached to them, they own the rights to view it, they don't necessarily own the IP included within the file, but you certainly cannot prevent them from viewing it or using it in discovery. They may even be able to publicly publish it, but not be able to profit from it or sell it.

There are many nuances to ownership, but as was said before, don't email it if you don't want them to have it.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2021 02:14PM by C(-)ris.
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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 16, 2021 03:38PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
PeterB
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
PeterB
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
PeterB


All of which would be fine, if this were a corporation we're talking about. It isn't -- it's an educational institution, where an argument could be made that the emails (and the attachments) don't necessarily belong to the institution ... for example, if someone outside the institution emails us with something, just because they're emailing it to us using the institution's email, doesn't mean that that email and the attachment automatically "belongs" to the institution.

You might want to double check that. If this is a public institution any email anyone sends you on your institutional email account absolutely without a doubt no grey area what so ever belongs to your institution. The law is VERY clear on that. You shouldn't be using your institutional email for personal matters. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those emails is subject to review for open records requests.

This is UW Madison's policy, but pretty much every public institution will be very similar: [compliance.wisc.edu]

This isn't a public institution we're talking about here, and to say that they "own" all the emails and their contents is beyond ludicrous and also violates their own (and multiple others') IP policy. If someone outside the university emails me with, say, a manuscript for publication, that manuscript does NOT belong to the university.

They may "own" all the emails that goes to the corporate/institution's email address. At the very least, they all get saved and are discoverable. This is why I don't understand why anyone would use their work email address for anything other than work needs.

What I described WAS an example of a work-related need or use. Nevertheless, the institution doesn't own the contents/attachments of all emails that are sent to an institutional address, for the reasons I mentioned ... it would violate their own as well as other institutions' IP policies, amongst other things.

They own the email and the specific digital files attached to them, they own the rights to view it, they don't necessarily own the IP included within the file, but you certainly cannot prevent them from viewing it or using it in discovery. They may even be able to publicly publish it, but not be able to profit from it or sell it.

There are many nuances to ownership, but as was said before, don't email it if you don't want them to have it.

Sorry, but that logic just doesn't fly-- the institution's "ownership" of received emails doesn't override the fact that the sender owns the IP of the content. Can the institution read/view, sure... it is their email system, that wasn't at debate. Can they publish it? If they did, they'd get sued for sure, it's not their IP.




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Re: Setting up an MS Exchange account on iPhone 12PM, and get this interesting message...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 16, 2021 05:40PM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
Sarcany
They are providing a profile to expedite setting up your email account for you on your mobile devices. The MDM profile gives them various ways to control your devices, but in most cases it's redundant. I expect that you do not have to use the profile and even if you do use the profile nobody is going to wipe your private BYOD iPhone except by the grossest recklessness or villainy.

...If you know the server-address, email address and password then try setting up the Exchange account in the Mail account settings on your iPhone in the ordinary fashion without the profile. The odds are very good that they left ActiveSync enabled in order to provide access via old versions of Outlook. Apple Mail under iOS has better support for ActiveSync than Microsoft's own products. It'll almost certainly work.

Are you sure about this? Most of my clients had to use the profile in order for iOS Mail to connect to Exchange Mail. I know that we had to delete our exchange account from iOS and use the profile to reconnect. If we didn't, nothing exchange related worked.

It's SOP.

I can't count how many times I've set up Apple Mail or Outlook to connect to an Exchange server when IT only offered (did not REQUIRE) a profile for setup. The only places that I work with where profiles are required are government offices and hospitals. They may require it for security purposes or for always-on VPN connections that can only be authorized with a MDM profile.

Outside of places like that, the profile is usually offered as a courtesy and to ease the burden on IT because it automates setup. People often assume that's the only way to do it because that's the only way that's proffered. You do need the right address for your Exchange server -- which can usually be grabbed from OWA (webmail) -- but is occasionally difficult to ascertain. Sometimes you can use the same address as you would to sign into OWA. Sometimes you can find the server-address in the "help" or "about" info in OWA. If you have a work-PC, you may find the address in the Mail settings in the Windows Control Panel.

...If your company has migrated to or uses hybrid Office365 services then you can probably just use the Office365 setup in Apple Mail instead of Exchange and that simplifies things dramatically.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2021 05:42PM by Sarcany.
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