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escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: January 06, 2022 07:23PM
I wasn’t raised around dogs, but I’ve really taken to the ones in my sister’s household over the last 10-15 years. When I’m visiting, I commonly take them for walks around her suburban neighborhood.

That’s what I was doing Monday, with a seven-month-old Corgi that we’re still training out of puppy biting-play with his housemate, a six-year-old Maltipoo (and occasionally with us). On the far side of the block, suddenly two very large unleashed dogs appeared, one probably 120 lbs and 30 inches at the shoulder and another a bit smaller. They wore collars with tags, so I wasn’t too worried—I couldn’t escape in any case—but canine greetings didn’t go well and within seconds I was in the middle of a dogfight like you saw in old cartoons, just a ball of confusion and biting and barking. As soon as I saw the big dogs going for the Corgi’s soft tissue, I did my best to scoop him up but I couldn’t hold him out of reach for them as they climbed up on me, and of course he was wriggling and biting right back.

Luckily, a motorist honked at us blocking his way (area has no sidewalks), and then inquired if they were my dogs. When I said “no!” he got out and held the big dogs by their collars while I made a breathless escape around the corner. A woman came out of the corner house with leashes and began calling “Queenie! Lady!”

I had to catch my breath, but Corgi wasn’t limping or licking any wounds, and trotted right home. Vet found only minor wounds. I was apparently bitten on my gloved hand, but just had soreness for a day (no bruising).

I keep trying to figure out what I could have done differently to free myself and my little corgi buddy from two dogs of that size in constant motion. Obviously I didn’t know they would suddenly appear, and I can’t outrun anything at this point, much less large dogs. Yes, there are dozens of weapons I could carry with me in future—but I hate to think of having to do that to just go out for a neighborhood walk.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Racer X
Date: January 06, 2022 07:29PM
you know, gelled pepper spray. Its a stream. I really doubt you would get in any legal trouble if you had to use it on unleashed dogs. Any law enforcement showing up would understand that.



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The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: btfc
Date: January 06, 2022 07:53PM
Summon your command energy, and yell commands; I usually point at them as well. Most dogs will at least hesitate.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: srf1957
Date: January 06, 2022 07:58PM
There is a 70+ year old women that sometimes walks her ancient lab by my moms . Out in the semi country . She pack a 16 club like an old police baton .
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: jh
Date: January 06, 2022 08:05PM
When I walk my small terrier mutt I carry a small pepper spray plus a metal walking "stick". Probably would have not be able to do it at the time but I or your sister would certainly have had a conversation with the owner. Leash law in the community? My wife was walking our dog a while back and a large dog came up and jumped on her and our dog. Think it was playing but it did nick her with his teeth. She came home and reported it to the Metro Animal Services (dog pound) and they sent somebody out that day to find the owners and the dog and warn them about the lease law, letting dogs run loose and possible citations they can give you. Another incident involved three small dogs where one bit a jogger. She reported it to Metro and they sent somebody out that day and the owner wound up giving up the dogs.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Racer X
Date: January 06, 2022 09:26PM
pets deserve owners/caretakers who give a damn.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: davester
Date: January 06, 2022 09:43PM
I did a fair amount of research on this after my daughter and her dog were attacked by a pit bull resulting in thousands of dollars in vet ER bills and time in the ER for her. Moronic "hey man, my dog isn't usually that aggressive" owner would probably not have paid if we had not gone to the police.

Escaping behind a gate or on top of a car should generally be your first line of defense. Pepper spray is the only thing that is (sometimes) effective, though only use it defensively when you can't otherwise escape. Loud noises and other interventions are largely useless.

I would have called the police and identified the address. An owner who let's their dogs run free is a hazard to the community and needs to be cited by the police and listed in a police report to make them aware that they either restrain their dogs or have them taken away.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2022 09:46PM by davester.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: ArtP
Date: January 06, 2022 10:19PM
A dog trainer friend of mine suggests that you grab the more aggressive dog{s) by his hind legs (think wheel barrel style) and pull backwards.

It confuses the dog plus it makes it harder for him to bite you (you are at the furthest point from his mouth) and if he does try and turn and bite you have more wiggle room to avoid a bite (you can see where the dog is aiming with the bite and hopefully avoid)

Always sounded good in theory but never seen it done....

YMMV
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 06, 2022 10:52PM
Glad you and dog are mostly ok. Check your local laws but most uses of pepper gel are ok for self defense. This includes animals. I jog with pepper gel on me and have had to draw it to the ready twice but not use it. Gel is different from spray as it us very unlikely for you to fog yourself like a spray would.



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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: davester
Date: January 06, 2022 11:03PM
Quote
ArtP
A dog trainer friend of mine suggests that you grab the more aggressive dog{s) by his hind legs (think wheel barrel style) and pull backwards.

It confuses the dog plus it makes it harder for him to bite you (you are at the furthest point from his mouth) and if he does try and turn and bite you have more wiggle room to avoid a bite (you can see where the dog is aiming with the bite and hopefully avoid)

Always sounded good in theory but never seen it done....

This sounds like 1) a completely insane tactic; 2) impossible to implement against something like a pit bull or rottweiler that would clamp onto you immediately if you got that close; 3) nonsensical since an attacking dog is not going to turn its back on you.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 06, 2022 11:09PM
pepper gels start at $10.


Small belt clip 12 feet [www.amazon.com]

Small on wrist strap 12 feet [www.amazon.com]

Medium sized with belt blip 18 feet
[www.amazon.com]

Big canister with forceful 25 feet range [www.amazon.com]



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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: January 06, 2022 11:52PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
When I’m visiting, I commonly take them for walks around her suburban neighborhood. That’s what I was doing Monday, with a seven-month-old Corgi that we’re still training out of puppy biting-play with his housemate, a six-year-old Maltipoo

Didn't the maltipoo help out?
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Racer X
Date: January 07, 2022 12:06AM
as soon as the big dogs showed up the Malti-poo'd.

Had to, couldn't let that one past thumbsup smiley



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: January 07, 2022 12:13AM
Pepper spray or gel is a good idea, as long as it's legal to carry in one's state – know your local laws.

One would likely be ok in breaking up a dog fight, but you can't be 100% sure.

Grabbing a dog's hind legs might be effective, but as davester points out, this would be a tricky move at best, and I'd thing very breed/dog specific.

If it could pulled off, hoot man!

This doesn't seem appropriate for Mr. D's situation, trying to save the Corgi.

A dog climbing up on me would get a check full of knee.


Summon your command energy, and yell commands; I usually point at them as well. Most dogs will at least hesitate.


I've twice had success with yelling 'Bad dog! Sit! at a charging dog but you really need a back up plan for a larger animal.

Both times the dogs hesitated long enough for the owner's to hastily get a hold of them.

And it saved the animals from a tragic ending.

Now maybe Daisy and Lulu Bell just escaped from the owner, or maybe the owner had them off leash when she shouldn't have.

Either way, I'd call local animal control and make a dangerous dog report, even if you don't know where the owner lives.

This needs to be on record, as there's no excuse for their behavior.

It may have happened before, and it could happen again.

If they can pay a visit, it might result in owners/caretakers giving a damn.






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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 07, 2022 01:21AM
Yes, check your local municipality's ordinances.



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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: January 07, 2022 02:32AM
ahh, Ignorant pet owners and cell phones;
there would be no "TV court shows" without them!
judge smiley



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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Pam
Date: January 07, 2022 05:24AM
Always assume any dog off leash is a danger. Never do a meet and greet off leash. Especially when the owner is not around. My dog is too big to pick up so I put my stop hand up and yell stop. This has worked so far. I also carry pepper gel and a collapsible baton. I would have called animal control and reported the incident. Not only was your dog attacked but you were also bitten. That may have been incidental but imagine if you were a kid. Those dogs should never be allowed out unleashed.

The wheel barrel technique is good for pulling dogs apart but then your dog is loose. It really needs at least two people to work. The baton can be used when a dog has locked on. Shove it down the throat to induce the gag reflex.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: voodoopenguin
Date: January 07, 2022 05:43AM
More than six decades ago ( I was nine) I was walking along our street when I heard some yelling and saw a neighbour running towards me waving his hands. Quickly realised he was pointing behind me. I stopped and turned to find a large German Shepherd dog in mid pounce. Instinctively put my hands up to protect my face and by pure chance I connected with its head and knocked it out. Gave me a few seconds to recover and the neighbour to grab the dog with help from others that had rushed out. Dog was a known very aggressive dog that should have been penned but there was a break in the fence. I was known as the kid that floored a large dangerous dog. Never been frightened of dogs but I am extremely wary.

Paul
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: January 07, 2022 07:51AM
Sorry this happened to you and your pups. Keep in mind that your puppy has just gotten a traumatic experience with strange dogs and will react accordingly in the future. Friendly meet and greet with known other dogs will be good therapy for him.

Like many others, I had a bad experience in childhood with a Bad Dog... age 5 or 6, playing in my front yard (probably digging in the dirt), and a large GSD ran up to see me. I slowly put my hand out, palm down for a sniff. And the big bastard bit a small chunk out of my hand. I kicked him in the neck and he ran away, and I ran inside for first aid. And my Dad ?

My Dad, Professor of Geology, avid hunter with a lifelong dream to be a cowboy, strapped on his six guns. Put on his Stetson. And marched with me up to the home of the Bad Dog. Where he announced to the owners :

"If I see that son of a bitch on my property I'm going to shoot him and deliver the carcass to your front step."

And we left.

Never saw that dog again. And Dad was my hero.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: graylocks
Date: January 07, 2022 08:29AM
I carry pepper spray on my dog walks. it’s gotten to the point where i feel naked without it.

A year or two ago a unleashed dog attacked my schnoodle and me. the owner appeared relatively quickly but i was knocked down and my dog’s neck had a small wound. a former animal control officer friend recommended carrying pepper spray. there has been a few times i’ve fingered it in my pocket but fortunately the loose dogs have retreated with my shouting verbal warnings.

btw, my friend also told me about the grabbing the hind legs tactic.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2022 09:47AM by graylocks.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: ArtP
Date: January 07, 2022 09:20AM
Quote
davester
Quote
ArtP
A dog trainer friend of mine suggests that you grab the more aggressive dog{s) by his hind legs (think wheel barrel style) and pull backwards.

It confuses the dog plus it makes it harder for him to bite you (you are at the furthest point from his mouth) and if he does try and turn and bite you have more wiggle room to avoid a bite (you can see where the dog is aiming with the bite and hopefully avoid)

Always sounded good in theory but never seen it done....

This sounds like 1) a completely insane tactic; 2) impossible to implement against something like a pit bull or rottweiler that would clamp onto you immediately if you got that close; 3) nonsensical since an attacking dog is not going to turn its back on you.

More insane than grabbing the Pit or Rot by the collar? You are essentially putting your hands in the action area.

Again the scenario was usually for a Dog Fight (2 dogs engaged) vs a Dog attack (1 dog dominating another)

As Pam mentioned above - Wheel Barrel works better with 2 people

Again, never seen it done but seems to make sense to me.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: pdq
Date: January 07, 2022 09:29AM
Heh. I once made the mistake of insinuating myself in a dust-up between my dogs and some free-range neighbor dogs at our lake place. It was a mistake because I think our dogs could have handled themselves that day; it was brief, and not particularly vicious.

But I did, and within a second or two I felt a good pinch on my backside. When it was all over a couple of seconds later, the rest of the family, once they had stopped laughing, asked if I was okay (the dogs all were fine, BTW).

Yeah, why? I asked. Didn’t you feel that? That three-legged dog jumped up and bit you on the ass! they said, and more laughter commenced.

Ever since then, that neighborhood dog was known as the three-legged butt-biter.

Glad to hear you weren’t badly injured.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Rolando
Date: January 07, 2022 09:45AM
If they are city dogs barking at you, bend over and grab a rock (or pretend to) and raise your arm like you're preparing to chuck it at him. That has worked for me for 40+ years.

If two dogs are fighting in your yard, a hosing of water will usually break them up.



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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: SteveO
Date: January 07, 2022 10:53AM
Sorry to hear about this incident. I deal with loose and often aggressive dogs on my bike at various times. Usually a good stern NOOO -- BAD! gets them to back down. Sometimes I'll just squirt my water bottle at them. Luckily I am a fast sprinter for when those are ineffective! If I'm in some situation where I can't sprint away, sometimes I will just sweet talk them and turn them into puddles of goo. It is fun to watch their faces go from anger to love.

I am not above bribery...it can also be helpful to keep a few dog treats on your person for emergency use!
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: January 07, 2022 11:21AM
Hmmm; dog treats to toss a few feet away. Sounds like a promising approach, if I can keep Corgi from investigating my pockets and begging me for them during the walk.

Maltipoo and I had actually met these same dogs a half-hour earlier, but that interaction was brief and civil. I'd forgotten about them, and also probably assumed they'd moved on to another block, when Corgi again led me around that particular block. So I'm a little reluctant to file any reports, as Corgi's inexperience with meet-and-greets may be a big factor here (though he does just fine at the dog park). Doesn't excuse the dogs' owner, but this is a big suburb (Arlington, Texas, pop. 400,000) and she'd just tell any officers at her door "I don't know how they got out of the back yard, it won't happen again."

The main problem was that there were two big dogs and also my own 21 lb. bundle of energy. I thought it was vital to keep Corgi from running away, and that meant I had only one hand (or, after scooping him up, none) to deal with the big dogs. I tried a couple of firm commands of "down" and "get out of here," (what my dad always shouted at strays) but wasn't sure what specific words to try with them. I tried kicking them away, but was hesitant to kick hard enough to enrage them such that they'd attack me. My feeling is the same about carrying mace or even a big stick: I want the dogs to leave, not to get mad at me.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: graylocks
Date: January 07, 2022 11:27AM
My feeling is the same about carrying mace or even a big stick: I want the dogs to leave, not to get mad at me.

i'm pretty sure the pepper spray i have will have them immediately concerned with not choking rather than attacking you so that you'll be able to leave. i've applied it twice, carefully, in the house to items my dog stubbornly refuses to stop chewing. That stuff is powerful and the whiffs of it i've taken in have me coughing uncontrollably and my eyes smarting up.

The application does stop the chewing though...



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: deckeda
Date: January 07, 2022 12:03PM
Of our 5 dogs, 3 will harass any stranger. None will attack, but you don’t know that. But as unleashed outside dogs they are annoying to strangers. UPS and FedEx don’t mind the barking because it’s always followed by tail wagging and then they sit. You know, for treats. And they do receive treats; every driver carries them.

It’s a rural thing.

The challenge is like so many others: You don’t expect to encounter unleashed aggressors but here, pepper spray can help in a way that won’t harm the assailant and won’t cause you to carry something impractical (a stick) nor something stronger that would end the dog’s life.

We had friends back in the ‘burbs who used to have a pit bull. We were all outside when the dog spotted another being walked down the street about 5-6 houses away. Usually this was OK but this time, no. As soon as the dog took off her owner jumped in his truck, matted the throttle and screeched to a stop at the confrontation and full-body yanked his dog off of the other so that there wouldn’t be a killing.

And then he of course offered to pay any vet bill. There are pit bulls who will never snap like this, despite the breeding. None of which matters when it happens of course.
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Re: escaping from a dogfight
Posted by: Michael
Date: January 07, 2022 02:54PM
Quote
cbelt3
Sorry this happened to you and your pups. Keep in mind that your puppy has just gotten a traumatic experience with strange dogs and will react accordingly in the future. Friendly meet and greet with known other dogs will be good therapy for him.

Like many others, I had a bad experience in childhood with a Bad Dog... age 5 or 6, playing in my front yard (probably digging in the dirt), and a large GSD ran up to see me. I slowly put my hand out, palm down for a sniff. And the big bastard bit a small chunk out of my hand. I kicked him in the neck and he ran away, and I ran inside for first aid. And my Dad ?

My Dad, Professor of Geology, avid hunter with a lifelong dream to be a cowboy, strapped on his six guns. Put on his Stetson. And marched with me up to the home of the Bad Dog. Where he announced to the owners :

"If I see that son of a bitch on my property I'm going to shoot him and deliver the carcass to your front step."

And we left.

Never saw that dog again. And Dad was my hero.

Your dad was a bad-ass professor! Of the several hundred professor's I've known in my career, I can imagine just a couple who would have done that.
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