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None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: kap
Date: February 02, 2022 10:26PM
Our SCE bill usually runs around $40-$50 but the bill from last month jumped to $203! We have not been needing to use the central heater since the beginning of Autumn and Winter. We occasionally use 2 small space heaters on the days it hits 50s-30s. We are very careful with our electricity. Most our appliances are gas. We are in the tier one, the least expensive, of SCE 3 tier payment plans. Somehow, we went above the allotment which we don't even know the range. I am on my 'hood's NextDoor app. Folks are saying their monthly bills have tripled and quadruple. I suspect California utility companies are trying to recoup their losses from lawsuits and Covy . How are your utility bills?



SoCal for now.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 02, 2022 10:29PM
LADWP hasn't changed a lot, they were already paying out a class action so seem to be behaving.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 02, 2022 10:55PM
Reddit is replete with similar tales of woe. My SCE bill was higher than normal for Dec/Jan, that's for sure.

SCE can't just raise rates, though, without getting the utility commission's approval, if I'm not mistaken.



It is what it is.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: GGD
Date: February 02, 2022 11:05PM
You really need to carefully look at your bill and understand everything that goes into the total to figure out what's causing it.

Were either the start or end meter readings estimated?
Were there more days in this billing period than previous bills?
Was the average KWH usage per day similar to previous bills, or significantly higher?
Was the average cost per KWH similar to previous bills, or significantly higer?
Do you have a Smart Meter? Do you have Time of Use billing?
Did you use an electric oven more than a typical month due to Christmas / family gatherings?

Once you understand it better you should be able to figure out if it's higher because you used more energy or because they raised the cost of the energy.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: stephen
Date: February 02, 2022 11:13PM
My Alabama Power bill topped $200 for the first time. My loft has poor insulation and it's been quite cold. I've been using a Honeywell oil-filled radiator in my bedroom a lot and turning down the heat for the place. Being warm is worth the $, though... it will drop come spring.

I have a heat pump and Nest in my high rise condo in Atlanta and bills are always low.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: February 02, 2022 11:44PM
Quote
kap
Our SCE bill usually runs around $40-$50 but the bill from last month jumped to $203! We have not been needing to use the central heater since the beginning of Autumn and Winter. We occasionally use 2 small space heaters on the days it hits 50s-30s. We are very careful with our electricity. Most our appliances are gas. We are in the tier one, the least expensive, of SCE 3 tier payment plans. Somehow, we went above the allotment which we don't even know the range. I am on my 'hood's NextDoor app. Folks are saying their monthly bills have tripled and quadruple. I suspect California utility companies are trying to recoup their losses from lawsuits and Covy . How are your utility bills?

Well, DUH! Where did they THINK the money was going to come from?
It comes from the CUSTOMERS... just like any business expense, at any business.
And yes, PG&E up here on the North Coast has raised rates too. My January Elec/Gas bill is up $20 year over year. Of course, it doesn't help that I ALSO missed an automatic payment in December, so, was paying TWO months bills this month. Ouch.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Racer X
Date: February 02, 2022 11:53PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Reddit is replete with similar tales of woe. My SCE bill was higher than normal for Dec/Jan, that's for sure.

SCE can't just raise rates, though, without getting the utility commission's approval, if I'm not mistaken.

Same with Seattle City Light, a public utility owned/operated by the city.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 03, 2022 12:18AM
Reviewing my SCE bills from the past few months, what I'm seeing that is different on this last bill is that instead of a single Tier 1 rate ($0.09534/kWh for generation, $0.15555/kWh for delivery), there are now two Tier 1 rates for generation and delivery. The second Tier 1 rate (increases for generation, decreases for delivery) kicks in after consumption of 150 kWh.

This is an interesting development. I expect this change was implemented at the same time as the new TOU billing plan (which I opted out for). None of the literature I reviewed prior to opting out of TOU mentioned new sub-tier rates within each tier. I think I'm going to have to reach out to SCE and ask them just what the hell they think they're doing.



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 12:19AM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 03, 2022 05:44AM
Our gas bill is way up. Our utility blames it on the mess in Texas a year ago. Our utility had to pay an exorbitant amount on the spot market back then where the gas suppliers gouged everyone and made billions.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: wurm
Date: February 03, 2022 06:47AM
Yep. Second month in a row our gas bill has been higher than our (already too high) electric [forums.macresource.com]
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: archipirata
Date: February 03, 2022 07:28AM
Similar here in Ohio. Our gas and electric are both running close to double the rate of last year.



Athens, OH
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: February 03, 2022 07:41AM
Don't have natural gas in the boonies.

Ours is projected to be $175 on 2/7/22 with Duke Energy, that's a tad higher than usual here in NC. On the cold nights, 10-25F above 0, the oil furnace has been running on instead of the heat pump, thermostatically controlled with a Honeywell 8000 thermostat and outdoor temperature sensor. The oil in our tank was bought at $1.25/gallon, hope we never see prices that low again, I know what caused them to go that low, it was bought in 2020. 2300sq.ft. and poorly insulated brick ranch.

If they want to increase electricity in NC they have to go the state government and approve first it I believe.



Grateful11




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 07:42AM by Grateful11.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: mspace
Date: February 03, 2022 08:28AM
For 2023 in NY, Con Ed wants to boost overall customer electric bills by 11.2% and gas bills by 18.2%.

Not festive.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 03, 2022 09:04AM
Our level bill is up $20 per month for electric since fall. The gas bill has not jumped that much yet, but the monthly level bill adjustments often lag. If they don't catch up right away, they will come for their money with the next annual level billing cycle adjustment.



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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 03, 2022 09:58AM
Quote
Paul F.

Well, DUH! Where did they THINK the money was going to come from?

As Speedy points out above, at least some of the bill arising from the Texas-freeze debacle last year is being paid for by Minnesota ratepayers.

cursing smiley
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: February 03, 2022 10:07AM
Our electric bill this past month was roughly the same as last year at the same time. I say "roughly" as both gas and electric were about $20 lower than this same time frame.

I did not dig into how much we used though. We may have just run it less this year which averaged out to be the same cost overall.



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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: GGD
Date: February 03, 2022 10:49AM
Quote
Paul F.
Of course, it doesn't help that I ALSO missed an automatic payment in December, so, was paying TWO months bills this month. Ouch.

If it's automatic, how do you miss it?
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: February 03, 2022 11:36AM
Central AR here. The locals on Nextdoor are all saying the same; massive jumps in cost for the last month or so. My electric is on levelized but has been climbing steadily. I haven't seen my gas bill yet.

Solar (combined with a powerwall system) is looking better and better.



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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: gabester
Date: February 03, 2022 12:24PM
I'm in the central US. While I pay the regulated commercial utility for power and a different one for natural gas (heating), I've heard the siren song of going off grid since ususually a meaningful to substantial fraction of the bill is essentially the utilities "monthly fee for service" which cannot be avoided (well, unless you go off the grid) but even tho those have risen from $8-10 to $20-30 in the past two decades I can't justify tens of thousands of dollars to go solar and install a propane tank.

I am a member of a solar community co-op; I pay in a monthly amount based on electric usage and withdraw a share of the power produced. It costs me more than buying straight from the electric utility by about 30% maybe, but it's the idea that I know where my electricity is coming from and it's an investment in the future I can't quite rationalize making at my residence.

With that said, to date my rates and bills don't seemed to have jumped exhorbitantly although natural gas pricing per therm itself from the utility's wholesale/resale market is up around 80-100%. While we were paying 40 cents a therm last summer we're now up to almost 80 cents, I think, as of the last bill.

Electricity's pretty steady at around 9-12 cents depending on what you want to count. Production is 6-7 cents, transmission is another 3-4, then there's nominal "environmental recovery fees" that tack on a cent or two, then I get a rebate from the solar co-op at the consumer rate.



g=
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 03, 2022 01:31PM
I'm envious of you folks who only pay 9-12 cents per kw/h of electricity.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: February 03, 2022 02:10PM
Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 03, 2022 03:00PM
Quote
freeradical
I'm envious of you folks who only pay 9-12 cents per kw/h of electricity.

Yep, we're happy with that.

Natural gas cost per therm up 20% from last year (November - March)

No tiers, just a slightly lower rate per therm off-season (April - October)

Natural gas is still so inexpensive I save wear and tear on my heat pump's compressor by just using the "backup" gas furnace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2022 03:00PM by Bill in NC.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: numbered
Date: February 03, 2022 03:26PM
Speaking about California...well this should move to the other side. Here is a nice summary.

There are three elements driving the rates. One is protecting poorer people by charging others. It is not clear to me that this should be done through electric rates, but here we are.

The second is that we want to blame the utilities for wildfires. I know their wires have sparks. We lived with that for a long time. But now we need someone to blame. Quoting the state PUC: "The report projected wildfire mitigation costs from 2021 to 2030 will cost PG&E $23.7 billion, SCE $17.2 billion, and SDG&E $3.9 billion." You cannot charge this to poor people, so....

And the third is the infrastructure costs of changing to a more distributed power system. And the costs for a larger system given the move to electrify everything.

I should add that those of you in other states who are not investing in infrastructure are expecting the rest of us will pay for it. But I digress....

One key player is Severin Borenstein, a Berkeley professor who has hated on rooftop solar for decades. His idea is that rich people should be taxed to pay for these other goals. Borenstein commented in a PUC hearing:

"California rates are "way above that" [national average] because fixed costs, including those for infrastructure, wildfire mitigation, and LMI [low and moderate income] and DER [distributed energy infrastructure], are paid for through the volumetric charges, he said during a Feb. 24 CPUC hearing. A more "progressive" rate would recover fixed costs from an income-based fixed charge that would be low for LMI customers and higher for the more affluent. "

Part of the problem is that as Cali stuffs more items into the rates, more people want to abandon the system:

"Recent research does show a high volumetric charge could increase grid defections in high penetration markets, Borenstein said. "But this is a fixed charge increase. The wealthiest customers might face an $1,800/year fixed charge, but would have a $0.10/kWh volumetric charge. That is less reason to defect than the $0.40/kWh volumetric charge forecast for California."

Borenstein acknowledges that the proper way to do this would be for the legislature to take action but he knows that won't happen.

Anyway, electricity costs are likely to keep rising because of the policy we want to enable. Ironically, those same costs will continue to drive alternatives to buying power because that is what markets do.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: February 03, 2022 04:30PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
Paul F.
Of course, it doesn't help that I ALSO missed an automatic payment in December, so, was paying TWO months bills this month. Ouch.

If it's automatic, how do you miss it?

I asked my credit union the same question... I have yet to get an answer. I'm watching the payment carefully this month, so if it doesn't fire off, I can make other arrangements. Not that big a deal. First thing like this with auto-pay in years and years.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Racer X
Date: February 03, 2022 05:39PM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
GGD
Quote
Paul F.
Of course, it doesn't help that I ALSO missed an automatic payment in December, so, was paying TWO months bills this month. Ouch.

If it's automatic, how do you miss it?

I asked my credit union the same question... I have yet to get an answer. I'm watching the payment carefully this month, so if it doesn't fire off, I can make other arrangements. Not that big a deal. First thing like this with auto-pay in years and years.

Does your utility "pull it" or does you credit union "send it"



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: kap
Date: February 03, 2022 10:13PM
Quote
GGD
You really need to carefully look at your bill and understand everything that goes into the total to figure out what's causing it.

Were either the start or end meter readings estimated?
Were there more days in this billing period than previous bills?
Was the average KWH usage per day similar to previous bills, or significantly higher?
Was the average cost per KWH similar to previous bills, or significantly higer?
Do you have a Smart Meter? Do you have Time of Use billing?
Did you use an electric oven more than a typical month due to Christmas / family gatherings?

Once you understand it better you should be able to figure out if it's higher because you used more energy or because they raised the cost of the energy.

I am in the process of emailing SCE requesting for clarification and additional info on SCE 3 tier payment plan.



SoCal for now.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: kap
Date: February 03, 2022 10:19PM
Quote
Zoidberg
Central AR here. The locals on Nextdoor are all saying the same; massive jumps in cost for the last month or so. My electric is on levelized but has been climbing steadily. I haven't seen my gas bill yet.

Solar (combined with a powerwall system) is looking better and better.
I had thought solar panels were a great idea until someone mentioned CA government is in the process of implementing laws that will allow utility companies to impose a charge to homeowners with solar panels.



SoCal for now.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: February 04, 2022 05:16AM
Quote
kap
Quote
Zoidberg
Central AR here. The locals on Nextdoor are all saying the same; massive jumps in cost for the last month or so. My electric is on levelized but has been climbing steadily. I haven't seen my gas bill yet.

Solar (combined with a powerwall system) is looking better and better.
I had thought solar panels were a great idea until someone mentioned CA government is in the process of implementing laws that will allow utility companies to impose a charge to homeowners with solar panels.

One of the first questions I asked my cousin when I visited her in AZ many years ago, was why didn't she have solar panels. Some of the neighboring developments were littered with them. She said the neighbors were grandfathered in. Living in a newer development (like where she lived) meant the utility company would have levied a hefty fee on her if she didn't power 100% of their home with solar. They did the math and with the roof size, they wouldn't be able to get to 100%. Close. But not 100%. So the fee would have actually been MORE than then their normal utility bill. It was a big racket.



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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: February 04, 2022 06:41AM
Some states are looking at banning the installation of solar panels on residential roofs. The panels burn like crazy and create firefighting challenges. Unfortunately most panels contain a significant amount of plastics.

As for utility costs, expect them to continue to rise. We've shut down generation capacity without replacing it. We don't have a real plan to replace the use of fossil fuels. And in many parts of the country our grid is obsolete.
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: Racer X
Date: February 04, 2022 09:59AM
The ugly thing about solar panels is the nasty stuff going into making them, and the non-recycleable mess you have when they reach end of life.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: None tech topic: High jump on Electric and Gas bills
Posted by: kap
Date: February 05, 2022 08:56AM
To SCE customers here, is better to opt out of the 3 tier payment plan since we are low power users?



SoCal for now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2022 08:56AM by kap.
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