I have my own local source (parents who have already done this) but like all of you here, I'm wont to peruse the dark alleys of internet fora. Did you find any useful financial advice on any of them? Recommend one over another?

Again: college financial advice, not retirement, etc. although I do realize all are essentially linked.

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Hurts like a bastid...

It’s a pretty deep topic. I like the bogleheads forum for anything financial.

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mattkime
It’s a pretty deep topic. I like the bogleheads forum for anything financial.

cool. I'll check it out. do they have sub-forums for such things?

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Hurts like a bastid...

I will give you unsolicited advise, not just as a parent, but as a teacher that saw former students get into big debt for no gain.

• Have your kid attend two years of Junior College first. It is free or far cheaper. Have them live at home, or they should get a job if they want to live away from home. This in itself will save a lot of money, making the last years more bearable. Many students figure out they don't really want to go to college after two years.

• Expensive private institutions are rarely worth the extra cost when it comes to dollars spent versus earning potential. Go to public schools if possible.

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“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA

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Markintosh
I will give you unsolicited advise, not just as a parent, but as a teacher that saw former students get into big debt for no gain.

• Have your kid attend two years of Junior College first. It is free or far cheaper. Have them live at home, or they should get a job if they want to live away from home. This in itself will save a lot of money, making the last years more bearable. Many students figure out they don't really want to go to college after two years.

• Expensive private institutions are rarely worth the extra cost when it comes to dollars spent versus earning potential. Go to public schools if possible.

Much similar advice from so local folks, although it was go to Community College, and not Jr College. Same idea, though. My friend's kid did that and then earned full boat to a big university. Pretty sweet, but he had a couple of things going for him that my kids do not.

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Hurts like a bastid...

We are just beginning working on college finances, but I heard an interview with this author and read the book. I found it really helpful and people that I have talked to have confirmed that the advice is solid.

[www.npr.org]

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mrbigstuff

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mattkime
It’s a pretty deep topic. I like the bogleheads forum for anything financial.

cool. I'll check it out. do they have sub-forums for such things?

just the 'personal finance' subform. Don't use your real name when you register as they'll likely want allll your info as to help advise.

As far as whats best for you and your kid that we can discuss on this forum - that depends upon the particulars of you and your kid.

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Personally, I would have been bored silly going to junior college. But I was well prepared for college in ways that many kids aren't.

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Look into 529b plans. Many different versions exist. WA state has a guaranteed education tuition 529 plan that will pay the full cost of the equivalent tuition on the most expensive public institution in WA. You can attend any college/university/trade school, but the payout is limited to what a semester at UW costs (WSU is usually less expensive). You can lower your taxable income while funding the plan, similar to an IRA. You can even create one before you even have a child to get a head start. Create it in your own name then transfer it to your child once they have a SS#. The catch is it has to be used for education or else there are significant penalties.

[wastate529.wa.gov]

I believe that Vanguard also has one or more 529 plans available.

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MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2022 04:23PM by ztirffritz.

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mrbigstuff

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Markintosh
I will give you unsolicited advise, not just as a parent, but as a teacher that saw former students get into big debt for no gain.

• Have your kid attend two years of Junior College first. It is free or far cheaper. Have them live at home, or they should get a job if they want to live away from home. This in itself will save a lot of money, making the last years more bearable. Many students figure out they don't really want to go to college after two years.

• Expensive private institutions are rarely worth the extra cost when it comes to dollars spent versus earning potential. Go to public schools if possible.

Much similar advice from so local folks, although it was go to Community College, and not Jr College. Same idea, though. My friend's kid did that and then earned full boat to a big university. Pretty sweet, but he had a couple of things going for him that my kids do not.

Might be too late at this point, but most High Schools will let you take courses at colleges for free if you have the time and are ahead in your studies. You could get up to a semesters worth of credit.

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C(-)ris
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I would second the junior college/community college idea. Get the “basics” out of the way; make double sure that the credits will transfer, as you don’t want to have to retake classes; and if the final school is out-of-state establish legal residence in the state you want to go BEFORE you start this process. Out of state tuition is crazy high, depending on where you go. I got hooked into paying out of state tuition because I enquired about a school in a different state. Since the original correspondence was out of state, that made me an out of state student, even though I had lived in the state I went to for many years prior, and owned property there as well. All because of a mailing address.

Go figure.

We have looked into them taking courses at local universities, but most universities say that they will not count the courses. At any rate, it's sort of a moot point, they will have so many requirements foisted upon them, that I'm sure they'll have to do the better part of 8 semesters. It's not like when many of us went to school some decades ago, schools got wise to this and want the $$$$. Even the AP courses are not a guarantee for credit with a 5 score. Crazy.

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Hurts like a bastid...

I thought most state schools will take credits from community/Jr. colleges?

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mrbigstuff
We have looked into them taking courses at local universities, but most universities say that they will not count the courses. At any rate, it's sort of a moot point, they will have so many requirements foisted upon them, that I'm sure they'll have to do the better part of 8 semesters. It's not like when many of us went to school some decades ago, schools got wise to this and want the $$$$. Even the AP courses are not a guarantee for credit with a 5 score. Crazy.

Here are a couple of random thoughts...

The university I went to had a unique major that most schools didn't offer. With it, they had a boatload of scholarships for that program, most of which went unused. I had a friend who was two years behind me and was going to go to my school. I told him to declare as this major and get a scholarship. The first two years of the program were literally 80% the same as a standard business major (only one course per semester unique to the major). He could then switch majors in his junior year. He'd lose the scholarship, but have two years paid for. He decided against it. His loss (probably about $12K for two years' tuition at the time).

Mentioned above is the idea of taking college courses while in high school. My sister pretty much finished all the courses her high school could offer by the middle of her senior year. Only thing left was a history course. They told her if she enrolled at the local college and took history, they'd give her her diploma at the end of the year. So she did. When she went back with her transcript at the end of the year, they refused to give her the diploma. We were moving out of state at the time, so she applied to the university there as a transfer student. So she has a college degree and an MBA, but no high school diploma.

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anonymouse1
I thought most state schools will take credits from community/Jr. colleges?

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mrbigstuff
We have looked into them taking courses at local universities, but most universities say that they will not count the courses. At any rate, it's sort of a moot point, they will have so many requirements foisted upon them, that I'm sure they'll have to do the better part of 8 semesters. It's not like when many of us went to school some decades ago, schools got wise to this and want the $$$$. Even the AP courses are not a guarantee for credit with a 5 score. Crazy.

State schools, probably you are correct, i was referring to private unis.

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Hurts like a bastid...

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mrbigstuff

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anonymouse1
I thought most state schools will take credits from community/Jr. colleges?

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mrbigstuff
We have looked into them taking courses at local universities, but most universities say that they will not count the courses. At any rate, it's sort of a moot point, they will have so many requirements foisted upon them, that I'm sure they'll have to do the better part of 8 semesters. It's not like when many of us went to school some decades ago, schools got wise to this and want the $$$$. Even the AP courses are not a guarantee for credit with a 5 score. Crazy.

State schools, probably you are correct, i was referring to private unis.

Private universities generally don't give you credit for APs, they just let you place into a higher level of that subject.

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Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.

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timg

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mrbigstuff

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anonymouse1
I thought most state schools will take credits from community/Jr. colleges?

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mrbigstuff
We have looked into them taking courses at local universities, but most universities say that they will not count the courses. At any rate, it's sort of a moot point, they will have so many requirements foisted upon them, that I'm sure they'll have to do the better part of 8 semesters. It's not like when many of us went to school some decades ago, schools got wise to this and want the $$$$. Even the AP courses are not a guarantee for credit with a 5 score. Crazy.

State schools, probably you are correct, i was referring to private unis.

Private universities generally don't give you credit for APs, they just let you place into a higher level of that subject.

The language APs are supposedly (if you score well) counted toward one's foreign language requirements, for example. Amd science APs (if you're not majoring in sciences) towards a typical science requirement.

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Hurts like a bastid...

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timg

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mrbigstuff

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anonymouse1
I thought most state schools will take credits from community/Jr. colleges?

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mrbigstuff
We have looked into them taking courses at local universities, but most universities say that they will not count the courses. At any rate, it's sort of a moot point, they will have so many requirements foisted upon them, that I'm sure they'll have to do the better part of 8 semesters. It's not like when many of us went to school some decades ago, schools got wise to this and want the $$$$. Even the AP courses are not a guarantee for credit with a 5 score. Crazy.

State schools, probably you are correct, i was referring to private unis.

Private universities generally don't give you credit for APs, they just let you place into a higher level of that subject.

For Private schools all bets are off, just get used to paying lots of money. Most of the tips and deals are for public universities.

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C(-)ris
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I'm in WA state along with ztirffritz and I will second his recommendation of a 529 savings plan (works like a 401k) if the kids are younger. We told the kids we would set aside enough for state college (in state). It worked out very well for our oldest daughter.

Our younger daughter is still in high school but has decided to attend art school. The particular area of expertise she wants to follow means she will need to attend a private school. This goes against my above goal of setting aside enough for state college! She will have to explore student loans or we will have to make up the difference.

Going to a community college for two years before moving to a four year university CAN work for saving money but only if you are REALLY on top of which credits transfer and satisfy your child's major prerequisites. It's completely possible to arrive at the four year university and still have to make up some credits.

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Ukulele music I couldn't find anywhere else.
[colquhoun.info]

If you are a good student, don't rule out all private colleges. Most have significant automatic discounts for good or even just decent high school GPAs. (The sticker price may be mind boggling, but that is a fiction few end up paying.) It may open up schools closer to you if you are trying to limit transportation or housing.

The Community College will direct you to schools that do fully recognize their credits. They may have worked out an agreement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2022 07:21PM by Acer.

Have her go to a state school for 2 years, then transfer?

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davemchine
I'm in WA state along with ztirffritz and I will second his recommendation of a 529 savings plan (works like a 401k) if the kids are younger. We told the kids we would set aside enough for state college (in state). It worked out very well for our oldest daughter.

Our younger daughter is still in high school but has decided to attend art school. The particular area of expertise she wants to follow means she will need to attend a private school. This goes against my above goal of setting aside enough for state college! She will have to explore student loans or we will have to make up the difference.

Going to a community college for two years before moving to a four year university CAN work for saving money but only if you are REALLY on top of which credits transfer and satisfy your child's major prerequisites. It's completely possible to arrive at the four year university and still have to make up some credits.

I dumped ~$40K into a 529 acct when the little Buzzlet was actually little. Paid for all his college, and now we have >$70K leftover for his kids...
if he ever gets a new GF/spouse and cranks 'em out.

It was looking good for quite awhile, before he broke up w/ his GF of 5+ years about a year and a half ago, and he's been awfully picky ever since.

But moral of the story; 529's kick butt!
And yes, local/community/junior colleges feeding into state schools is a very prudent program to follow.
As is stockpiling as many AP credits as possible.... makes it way easier to actually get that bachelor's degree in 4 years, or less.
Now go have another kid!
==

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Buzz

Now go have another kid!
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Excellent advice! I like trying.






Just have to tell my spouse first. I'll be channeling George Costanza.

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Hurts like a bastid...

When I advised students it was always two years of community or junior college, then transfer to the university for the last two years.

If your child is going away to school, consider buying a place for them to live in. They can rent out a second room and you can sell it at the end.

Rent books - don't buy, and wait until after the first class to see if the book is even needed.

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“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

Seconded for the books. Also check if there are used ones available or even better, the previous edition, as there is often very little difference from one edition to another, especially for the core classes.

When I taught some 12 years ago, I wouldn’t hold the students to the newest book. During the first class, if they hadn’t bought a book, I would explain my stance on it. How much does Chemistry, especially the introductory courses, change from year to year? Very little to none, even though the book changed about every two years. Three hundred dollars for a textbook was insane; I can’t imagine what they are now.

bigstuff,

You don't say your state, but look for a guaranteed 2-year to 4-year pathway for state universities, they are more common than ever. I saw an old friend who is a single-mom, without tremendous resources, recently posted about her daughter joining such a program in Virginia, and successfully completing the first two years of CC this spring, now being set for the transfer of all credits to William & Mary next fall.

If the program is not guaranteed, you can almost arbitrarily lose credits. Nationwide the total losses of time and money on this problem run into the billions, IIRC. A concurrent issue with lost credits is the loss of motivation for the transfer students. 4-year degree completion is significantly higher for those transfers that retain their CC credits.

I have another friend who had been in and out of public universities without ever finishing a degree. He got a job at one of the highest ranked private Unis in the US. It turns out that the university offered tuition credits to employees. He got into a couple classes as a "Special Student" i.e., a student from another university taking a class over the summer to credit back to his regular program. The results were 2 As in the classes, he got accepted into a degree program, then a masters, finally receiving a BA and an MA (credited tuition from HR, 260k). Get the kid to work at a private university if possible and get tuition benes.

Someone posted about not a great payoff for a top university, this is mostly true. But my time on HR matters has shown that there is an implicit bias toward "Name" schools (which might be a public, e.g., UC Berkeley).

Best of Luck!

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“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."

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Acer
If you are a good student, don't rule out all private colleges. Most have significant automatic discounts for good or even just decent high school GPAs. (The sticker price may be mind boggling, but that is a fiction few end up paying.) It may open up schools closer to you if you are trying to limit transportation or housing.

The private university where my wife taught offered 50% off tuition with an ACT of 30 or above and the other 50% off if you were in the top 10% of your HS graduating class.

(And they paid the tuition for professors’ children at any college in the world. Our son decided to go to the U of Minn - go figure.)

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2022 08:43PM by Speedy.

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And they paid the tuition for professors’ children at any college in the world. Our son decided to go to the U of Minn - go figure.

Bingo, what a fantastic benefit.

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“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."

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FormerlySaleenl
I found [this] really helpful and people that I have talked to have confirmed that the advice is solid.

[www.npr.org]

You know, I followed the first step and googled an elite college I know a child is vaguely interested in attending but thinks is entirely unaffordable along with some approximate financial info. The result was a bit... peculiar.

Total cost was $75k
Tuition was $58k
Room, Board, Fees $17k

Parent Contribution was $85k
Student Contribution was $4k

Total Contribution was $89k

We're not talking a multimillionaire or even sub-millionaire situation here, so does anyone have an idea of why the total contribution was greater than the total cost??! Or is the total cost listed annually while the total contribution is listed for a presumed 4 year degree (which would make this scenario almost entirely palatable.)

Interestingly, by changing the approximate numbers lower by about $10k for income, home value, and investments, I was able to get an $8k scholarship... so I must have just coincidentally guestimated numbers at the full ride level.

Further examination - I made the mistake of including the value of retirement investments as regular investments... setting those correctly yielded approx $20k in scholarships below the "sticker price" of the school.

Ironically when I was looking at colleges this elite institution was amongst the least expensive top 25 private universities in the US.

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g=



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2022 11:51PM by gabester.

If you are in the Southeast, tell your child to get a part-time job at Publix supermarkets, they pay the tuition for all employees who work at least two shifts a month.

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“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

.....the thing with the books [ at least back in my day ] is if you waited til after the first day of classes, then all the 'used' books would be gone, so always had to grab used books first [ you then sold for like pennies back, and they would resell for higher amount - one of the biggest scams out there ]....

....the caveat with the 529(b) is that it has to be used for education....you can transfer once a year to a different person/beneficiary but don't put too much in it because if you have 'left over' money and no one to transfer, then you will have to pay penalty to cash in...

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I reject your reality and substitute my own!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2022 07:18AM by NewtonMP2100.

Here in Washington we have "running start" which has HS students taking college courses at the local community colleges (mostly senior). They get credits to HS graduation from those classes and have a year of college credit when they start. Not sure about any programs in other states, but worth a look.

More info here - and additional states. [en.wikipedia.org].



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2022 08:20AM by vicrock.

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NewtonMP2100
.....the thing with the books [ at least back in my day ] is if you waited til after the first day of classes, then all the 'used' books would be gone, so always had to grab used books first [ you then sold for like pennies back, and they would resell for higher amount - one of the biggest scams out there ]

"Back in the day" has changed a bit. You generally do not want to buy most books before the first day of class or until you've received the syllabus. This way you can be sure of what is actually required or preferred. Then you can get it in a couple days from Chegg or Amazon Prime (which carry used books too), or you can get an e-text instantly.

New texts can be insanely expensive, and you may may pay dearly on occasion, but e-texts and amazon rentals—options not available to us back in the day—can be really affordable.

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Ombligo

If your child is going away to school, consider buying a place for them to live in. They can rent out a second room and you can sell it at the end.

I heard about parents doing this, it's great if you can afford a second mortgage, and with the market you may come out ahead after 4-5 years. But not everyone can swing another home payment, I know I can't.

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....in this housing boom where there are bidding wars for limited amount of home.....buying may no longer be options but I guess it depends on the location.....

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_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

Some schools offer far better financial aid than others. I assume some of this info is online now, but back when my mom was a high school librarian, she regularly got materials on college financial aid rankings. Ohio University, where I went to grad school, was one of the best then, and I think it’s still pretty good. Between the teaching assistant position, tuition waiver, and work-study in the summer, I was able to get out of grad school debt-free. I am immensely grateful to OU.

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My life goes smoothly and in regular intervals

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decay

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Ombligo

If your child is going away to school, consider buying a place for them to live in. They can rent out a second room and you can sell it at the end.

I heard about parents doing this, it's great if you can afford a second mortgage, and with the market you may come out ahead after 4-5 years. But not everyone can swing another home payment, I know I can't.

It was barely more than rent and by renting out the other room the payment was essentially made. If you have more than one kid going to the same school, then you will definitely save. You also are looking at lower-cost places like townhouses or trailers. We bought a 1000sf townhouse for under $90k. It is generally a pretty safe investment because other parents are looking to do the same when you get ready to sell.

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“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2022 05:41PM by Ombligo.

One kid did the community college thing. We have guarantee to transfer for state schools - still lost a bit of credit. Was mad that it took 5 years to graduate, didn't bond with other freshman. Many years later he is happy about community college - made some good contacts, actually got his job indirectly due to community college.

Thing #2 commuted for 1.5 years to localish state school. Found a very cheap room on campus and moved out.

I make too much for grants. During their overlap year subsidised loans could've happened - but #1 paid for his last year working, and #2 was still spending the money I saved for him in his first year.
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Don't make too many plans. Friends bought a condo, but son dropped out of school. COVID, medical issues, bad room mates, broken up girlfriends, secret parties - it is always interesting.

I am not a fan of buying a house for my kid to stay in while renting to students, unless it's already a family business and the parent is going to directly manage it. I would not want to add "property manager" to the list of tasks an 18 yo frosh has to manage.

I talked with a fellow parent during an early orientation day who was seriously considering it for his son. Good thing he didn't, that son totally washed out and transferred to another school the next year.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2022 10:28AM by Acer.

my kids' financial aid ended up being working for Uncle Sam after graduation.

both got ROTC scholarships that covered tuition/fees...one moved on after a year to a service academy which covered tuition plus room/board.

but the ROTC scholarship, in addition to the above, includes a book allowance & monthly stipend, tax-free.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2022 02:43PM by Bill in NC.

Thanks to everyone who replied. I have some reading.

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Hurts like a bastid...