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Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: d4
Date: June 09, 2022 10:20AM
I own a home and live in a typical suburban area of small 100x50 rectangular land plots and cookie cutter houses and garages. Small square lawn, pvc fences, etc.

To maximize the space, most of the garages were built VERY CLOSE to the property line. Maybe 12-18 inches into the property. When neighbors need to clear the gutters, we'd ask the neighbor and go next door with a ladder to reach the gutters.

Years ago, before I bought the house, the back neighbor had built a fence that, instead of going alongside the back of our garages, butted up to the back corner of my garage. He has pavers and a garden as well back there along the fence.

I checked and found out that no permit was applied with the local Building Department for this fence. So there's no record of how long that fence has been there. Pic worth 1000 words below. The person I spoke with at the Building Department said that since no permit was pulled, I am 100% in the right here.

I never had an issue with this fence. He's been a good neighbor for close to 10 years. When I say "good" I mean, I never had any negative interaction with him. No complaints. Great! I just don't want any issues with this fence and property line if/when I or the neighbor sells the house.

Since we all live so close to each other, maintaining a good neighbor relationship is important to me.

What would you do?





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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: June 09, 2022 10:37AM
If you're not having any issues at the moment, if it was me, I'd let sleeping dogs lie and do nothing except keep the record that no permit was pulled for the fence change. Keep that as an ace card.

If you DO have a problem in the future, I'd say that the first course of action would be to have a surveyor come and locate the actual property lines... with the knowledge that it's possible that ALL the lots on the block are "off" and the actual measurements cut houses in half, etc, in which case the property boundaries are what the city says they are (be that long standing fence lines etc).

Also keep in mind, I'm not a surveyor... if one speaks up, listen to them, not me.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: June 09, 2022 10:45AM
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 09, 2022 10:50AM
Good fences make good neighbors. Just be sure he is aware of it as well. Just in a ' Hey, I was thinking about doing some work on the yard and asked the city about property lines and discovered this. I thought you should know if either of us ever wants to know."

Pass the documentation along while sharing a beer or a cup of coffee.

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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: June 09, 2022 10:53AM
I am aware of a neighbor dispute over 40’x2” of land that resulted in an ongoing 40+ year battle that involves mutual harassment, trolling, poop flinging, and police calls. Humans are irrational territorial animals. Some handle disagreements better than others. People fight over airline seats recline a few inches, parking spots they don’t own, walking to close to someone’s personal space. Be careful before you make a decision.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: d4
Date: June 09, 2022 11:11AM
Thanks guys.
I think I know what I should do, it's just reassuring to hear others opinions as well.

I'm not sure how other parts of the country do it, but when we applied for a bank mortgage to buy the property we had to hire a surveyor to come out and do a survey report for the closing documents.

In hindsight, I see what was sketched out and noted with abbreviations, codes and scribbles in the survey report. The back neighbor's fence is 100% going into my property by 12-18 inches and was noted on the report. It was in no way a dealbreaker for us in terms of buying the property. But others may feel different.

12-18 inches may seem like nothing when one has a 1 acre property. Even eye-rolling, laughably insignificant. But we are on small plots... The only time I go back there is once a year to clear the gutters. Maybe once every 3 years? Hah!

I rarely notice the guy in the backyard because of said 6 foot fence. Which is good! So I have to stalk him a bit to "bump into him" and mention it in a friendly way. If I was to go around and knock on his front door with a land survey in hand after 10 years of living here, all of a sudden it's "A THING." If you know what I mean.

This came about because I was watching some clip on YouTube and property lines came up and some neighbor had an issue, but because it was over 15 years ago. And the neighbor was maintaining the disputed area for all those years, he is claiming ownership of it. I don't remember what the context was. But I felt it was similar to my situation.



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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: MEG
Date: June 09, 2022 11:15AM
Things may be good now but if you don't know the term "adverse possession" I'd look it up, especially in regards to the eventuality that either property changes hands (e.g., how a person in possession of land legally acquires it from the actual title holder).

Don't mean that things have to contentious, just everyone needs to be aware that the fence is over the line and you consent to the use (like cbelt said).
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Todd's keyboard
Date: June 09, 2022 11:15AM
Seems like a good time recommend Mine! - How the Hidden Rules of Ownership Control Our Lives by Michael Heller and James Salzman.

While not much help, here is one data point. I built a car port too close to my neighbors' property line. A prominent hedge was there before both of us purchased our respective properties. I didn't even think about getting a permit.

The neighbors never complained. I'm sure the hedge kept it off his radar. Several years later, I sold my property to the same neighbors. In this instance, the issue never came up.

Todd's covered keyboard
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 09, 2022 11:16AM
Looks like it's your fence, now. It's on your side of the line if it touches your garage. On the other hand, you could discover your garage is three inches on HIS side.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: June 09, 2022 11:28AM
The fence is a non issue once you have permission to use his land.

So if you had a ladder placed on his pavers or whatever could you reach over the fence, to your gutters? If so, it’s the same effect. Or forget the ladder, what about one of those long vacuum things I see advertised for this, with a curved end that extracts leaves from gutters while you’re on the ground? You’d still be on his property but not hassling with a ladder … and might have better reach.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: June 09, 2022 11:34AM
Disclaimer: I am a lawyer. I am NOT your lawyer.

The key question is whether you are willing to potentially give up the value of that strip of land. If you are, don't do anything. If you aren't, look up adverse possession, and consult with a lawyer. The best outcome after that might be something like you have a brief, pleasant conversation with him, noting you don't want to change anything, and you've discovered that the fence is actually on your property, and whenever either of you wants to sell, that might affect things. Then write up a friendly letter and send it to him, certified, and keep a copy for yourself.

Alternatively, if it were me, depending on the costs, I'd offer to split the costs of moving the fence to where it belongs. Might be the cheapest outcome, all in all, when you consider lawyers fees. Guessing the cost might be $15 to $50 per linear foot. So if it's 50 feet, maybe $750 to $2500, plus cost of removing old fence. Probably cheapest, best solution if neighbor is amenable.

Good luck!
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: June 09, 2022 11:41AM
D4,

Agree with Anonymous1. If you've confirmed the fence (and possibly pavers and a portion of the garden) are in fact on your property, then it could be an issue in the future whether they or you sell. Same goes for if anything happens to the fence and it needs replacement. In that situation, you'd want to make sure the new fence (and anything else) is on your neighbor's side of the property.

Here is some info about adverse possession in NY:

[www.nolo.com]

Hate to say, under the law, you may have already lost the right to the strip of land. Or, you may be close to losing it.

Might be worth a consult with a real estate attorney. Just make sure you have a copy of the current survey.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2022 11:42AM by Robert M.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: d4
Date: June 09, 2022 11:49AM
Quote
anonymouse1
The key question is whether you are willing to potentially give up the value of that strip of land. If you are, don't do anything. If you aren't, look up adverse possession, and consult with a lawyer.

The thing is, no permit was pulled for that fence. In the town's eyes, in the absence of paperwork filed, there should be no fence there. That fence could've been there for one year. It could've been there for 50 years. But what do I know. As much as I hate to do it and spend the money, I might have to talk to a lawyer to see what's what before talking to the neighbor sad smiley



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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: datbeme
Date: June 09, 2022 11:52AM
I would probably ignore it as well; however, "adverse possession" is a concept that I've never really understood. Never seems fair to the party who was infringed upon. It may already be too late if you ever had a disagreement in the future or if there was a dispute when one of the properties is sold.

I know nothing about the law, but ideally I think you would want to get a survey and a signed document where both of you acknowledge that the fence is on you property...and that while you permit this, you also retain the right to request removal of the part of the fence that is on your property at some point in the future.

I imagine you wouldn't want to do that, but you've got me thinking. I have a fenced in backyard, and I recall from surveys that the fence is entirely within my property line (6"-12"). My next door neighbor fenced in the rest of his yard and used the same style of fencing for a uniform look. A connected area on the side butts against mine and would technically be on my property 6"-12". It looks a million times better this way, and I prefer that, but I wonder if I'm giving up a tiny sliver of my property in allowing this.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Spiff
Date: June 09, 2022 11:56AM
If every you want to sell, that fence is going to the the fly in the ointment. I bought an expensive house on the cheap because the previous owners built a workshop into the easement without a permit. That then reverted the deed back to previous owners (by Columbia, SC law) and the current owner could not sell it at the height of the last housing bubble (2008?). It sat unused until my agent was able to round up signatures from past owners saying they have no rights to the deed. Then I could buy it from the owner, at a sharply reduced rate due to the housing bubble burst.

So make sure all is in line and within legal limits.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: rz
Date: June 09, 2022 12:00PM
At our old house, when we had the survey done, we found the neighbor’s fence was on our property… in some places up to two feet. We paid to have a new fence put up, on the property line. He was not happy, but I didn’t care. It ended up that the lines leading from his pool pump to his pool ended up on my side of the fence. He could have had them moved, but we let him keep them there since they was surrounded by trees and wasn’t really an issue for us.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Janit
Date: June 09, 2022 12:12PM
Quote
Robert M
D4,

Agree with Anonymous1. If you've confirmed the fence (and possibly pavers and a portion of the garden) are in fact on your property, then it could be an issue in the future whether they or you sell. Same goes for if anything happens to the fence and it needs replacement. In that situation, you'd want to make sure the new fence (and anything else) is on your neighbor's side of the property.

Here is some info about adverse possession in NY:

[www.nolo.com]

Hate to say, under the law, you may have already lost the right to the strip of land. Or, you may be close to losing it.

Might be worth a consult with a real estate attorney. Just make sure you have a copy of the current survey.

Robert

I agree with Robert M, and it may be the pavers abutting the fence that clinch the matter, as your neighbor has clearly been using your yard space as if it's his own. You need to determine immediately what conditions would have been necessary to establish adverse possession in your area, and to do the minimum necessary for preventing adverse possession to become effective.

This may or may not involve pulling up the pavers or moving the fence, and it ought to be possible to come to a peaceable solution if you are careful. The reason to consult a lawyer is to ensure that whatever agreement you may come to with your neighbor is done in a way that legally preserves your title to all of your land.

It is also worth investigating prior sales and surveys to pin down the boundaries described on your neighbor's deed when he bought it. Did he put up the fence/pavers, or were they there when he purchased the property.

Quick but quiet research is in order.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2022 12:18PM by Janit.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 09, 2022 12:12PM
Ancillary question:
What if you need to paint the back of your garage; or any of your neighbors need to paint theirs?

With only 12” to 18” between wall and fence, it seems like that would be very difficult, if not impossible.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: June 09, 2022 12:37PM
I missed the part where you own the fence, effectively. Climb it, attach something to it, or take it down after you have that chat.

From a practical standpoint I’d try working around it first and keep its ownership quiet for now.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: d4
Date: June 09, 2022 12:46PM
Quote
deckeda
I missed the part where you own the fence, effectively. Climb it, attach something to it, or take it down after you have that chat.

From a practical standpoint I’d try working around it first and keep its ownership quiet for now.

The back fence was there when I bought the house. I'm sure the back neighbor installed it (without a permit). It matches the back neighbor's side fences.



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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 09, 2022 12:51PM
In my state, as long as they are using your property with you permission, no problem. Think long term apartment or pasture rental. But once you tell them to vacate, you have 10 years (or is it 15 years ?) to force the move and if you don’t, it becomes their property.

Also, if it is accidental possession because no one knew the lot line, it’s just like a rental - voluntary use. This is what we had with our neighboring lots, nobody paid attention to the lot boundaries until one neighbor wanted build a large two car out building so had a survey done so he could put it as close to the lot line as legally possible. I was only made aware of it when he had his irrigation system pulled up and moved over some 0-15 feet in an angle from the street (known corner line) to the back corner and I asked him why. It was a domino effect as several neighbors on my other side ‘lost and gained’ property as we staked out the actual property lines. None had buildings or fences nor even irrigation systems to be concerned about. Nobody complained, nobody fought.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: June 09, 2022 01:45PM
Quote
d4
Quote
anonymouse1
The key question is whether you are willing to potentially give up the value of that strip of land. If you are, don't do anything. If you aren't, look up adverse possession, and consult with a lawyer.

The thing is, no permit was pulled for that fence. In the town's eyes, in the absence of paperwork filed, there should be no fence there. That fence could've been there for one year. It could've been there for 50 years. But what do I know. As much as I hate to do it and spend the money, I might have to talk to a lawyer to see what's what before talking to the neighbor sad smiley

I would recommend that talk. Property laws are different in all of the states, and it also matters on how they are enforced in your locality. The fence being on your property may be anything from a non-issue to potentially a bigger problem. And how you handle it could escalate it.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: June 09, 2022 01:51PM
Quote
Paul F.
If you're not having any issues at the moment, if it was me, I'd let sleeping dogs lie and do nothing except keep the record that no permit was pulled for the fence change. Keep that as an ace card.

If you DO have a problem in the future, I'd say that the first course of action would be to have a surveyor come and locate the actual property lines... with the knowledge that it's possible that ALL the lots on the block are "off" and the actual measurements cut houses in half, etc, in which case the property boundaries are what the city says they are (be that long standing fence lines etc).

Also keep in mind, I'm not a surveyor... if one speaks up, listen to them, not me.

Paul is pretty spot on here; get a surveyor (about $1000) to come look at the property. there is a popular misconception on adverse possession if you use or occupy someone's property it becomes yours. case law will provide some benefit here, but your case is super simple: he has no claim to your land. in claims I' have seen where there may be some cause for adverse possession, it involved access to the "trespasser's" property, i.e., he could not access his land or building without using your land. in other words, an easement would be established by this case, but was never put into a deed.

there is not any court that would allow that guy to "take" your land unless your area was developed before record keeping. perhaps in western states of nearly boundless vistas, but not in the cities, and not in places like the northeast that have had record keeping for about 300 years or longer.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 09, 2022 02:05PM
IANAL, but this post broached my interest, having some vague property borders myself. Trees on the line are the point of contention in my case.

This is a statement about Pennsylvania law, just as an example:

"The possession was (i) actual, meaning the claimant actually had physical possession of the land; (ii) continuous, meaning the possession was not interrupted others; (iii) open and notorious, meaning that the possession should have been obvious to the record owner; (iv) hostile, meaning that the possessor wasn’t given permission to remain on the land by the record owner; and (v) for the statutorily prescribed 21-year limitations period."

I think (iv) might apply here. If the trespasser was given explicit permission to position the fence over the line, even if he used it for years, it would not be adverse posession.

if the fence is less than 21 years old (in PA in this case), then also adverse possession (v) does not apply yet. Maybe you can reset this clock by writing a letter asking them to vacate the encroached land, even if you intend to come to an agreement later.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: June 09, 2022 02:34PM
Disclaimer: I am a lawyer, I am NOT your lawyer.

1. Adverse possession means that even if A owns real property, if B acts as if B owns the real property, and A doesn't openly object, B can take ownership if B acts that way for long enough. It doesn't have to be an easement; I recall law school cases where someone moved into a house, the heirs didn't challenge it for 20 years, and the heirs lost.

2. Adverse possession is incredibly fact and jurisdiction (and sometimes judge) specific. it's worth talking to a lawyer to some clarity just about the specific facts.

3. Your neighbor has something to lose here. If he tries to sell, and you object, even if you would lose in court, it could totally mess up his sale for quite a period of time. So he has an interest in getting this straightened out, even if he loses 12 to 18 inches of property.

4. You probably need to be able to convince your neighbor that youi're right. I don't know what info you need for that-you may already have enough, you may need to call in a surveyor, or something else. But you'll have to have something persuasive--the original town records, etc. may be enough. That's your call (actually, it's all your call, but it's more factual than legal).

5. If you are right, and you have the facts to persuade your neighbor, absolutely IMHO the first best thing to do is to jointly pay for moving the fence (and there are pavers? I'm not clear about this). If you have to go to court, it will take longer and cost more.

6. Alternatively to 5, you could have a signed agreement with your neighbor that he agrees that the strip is yours, and you allow him to use it until either of you puts your house up for sale, and that the agreement is binding on future owners of the properties. At that point, if he sells first, if the new owner doesn't want to agree to that, he or the new owner could pay for a new fence. If you sell first, then you can force the removal of the fence at that time. If you go this route, GET THE AGREEMENT DRAFTED BY A LAWYER.

7. Go with step 5.

Good luck.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: June 09, 2022 03:15PM
2. Adverse possession is incredibly fact and jurisdiction (and sometimes judge) specific. it's worth talking to a lawyer to some clarity just about the specific facts.


That may be the case, but the most common land use disputes, probably by a factor of 100, and the subject of the post, is the installation of fencing. Land courts (at least in these parts) are the places to resolve this, but a letter from a lawyer along with a registered survey are usually sufficient. And, if not, taking those two things (and the lawyer) along with you to land court should suffice. But now we are talking at least $3000 just to move a stupid fence, when a survey and moving the fence after the survey should suffice.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 09, 2022 03:45PM
In Idaho, if the fence is there long enough, it becomes the property line. I’ve seen it happen, and one of my fences does not represent the property line.

I would have a friendly conversation with the neighbor, and let him know that the fence is over the line, but that you have no problem with it at present, and have him acknowledge that.

Best to get that in writing if possible.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: June 09, 2022 04:09PM
12 to 18 inches may make a difference on a small lot due to any easement or setback requirements. Just hope that the garage is fully on your property.

Many of the houses in my development have stick frame sheds on concrete pads that were built prior to code restrictions. They were all built in the area designated for setbacks and sewer right of way. Not sure why the sewer right of way was put between backyards other than that's where overhead power is run. These are all grandfathered in. Good luck getting approval to have a structure built in a similar area today.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Forrest
Date: June 09, 2022 05:23PM
I would not raise this issue with the neighbor unless you or he plans to make changes ie. sell the property, replace your garage, install your own fence, etc. Just my 2 cents - I'm not a lawyer.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: vicrock
Date: June 09, 2022 06:06PM
Quote
MEG
Things may be good now but if you don't know the term "adverse possession" I'd look it up, especially in regards to the eventuality that either property changes hands (e.g., how a person in possession of land legally acquires it from the actual title holder).

Don't mean that things have to contentious, just everyone needs to be aware that the fence is over the line and you consent to the use (like cbelt said).

This agree smiley
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 09, 2022 07:12PM
On second thought, perhaps you should invade to return your empire to its former glory.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: June 09, 2022 08:36PM
Quote
Acer
On second thought, perhaps you should invade to return your empire to its former glory.

That's exactly the suggestion I would advise. There's nothing the trespasser can do if your action is to move the fence to your own boundaries. Get the boundaries certified by a registered survey that can be added to your deed. They could possibly bring a suit against you for destruction of property, I suppose. But this is a friendly neighbor, so...
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 09, 2022 09:15PM
How about a notarized agreement that you won't say anything if he promises to correct the location whenever the fence is replaced?



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: June 09, 2022 10:49PM
Quote
Racer X
How about a notarized agreement that you won't say anything if he promises to correct the location whenever the fence is replaced?

Apparently, being a good neighbor and working things out like adults like you suggest is off the table for some folks...
Too bad, because that seems a good way to do it.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: ADent
Date: June 09, 2022 11:36PM
It's not that hard.

Adverse possession he just has to prove how long the fence is there. Any photos. Google Earth from years ago. Our county has aerial images as part of its assessor maps. Permit doesn't matter. He can claim adverse even if you make him take down an un-permitted fence - if it has been long enough and he can prove it.

You can stop adverse possession by clearly claiming/using that portion of your land. For example moving the fence.

Or just get an agreement signed. Say a $1 payment to rent the land for 100 years with a 180 day revocation clause. Get a real estate lawyer to write it up. Can be done as an easement too. If the neighbor won't sign then take down the fence.

---

The water company paid one of the previous owners of my house $6,000 in exchange for an easement that allows continued access to a underground line if needed and forbidding permanent structures in a corner of my lot where a water main runs under. It showed up at closing.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: June 10, 2022 12:24AM
You can stop it if it hasn't ripened. Once it's ripened, it's hard to do anything.

The agreement idea isn't bad.

Quote
ADent
It's not that hard.

Adverse possession he just has to prove how long the fence is there. Any photos. Google Earth from years ago. Our county has aerial images as part of its assessor maps. Permit doesn't matter. He can claim adverse even if you make him take down an un-permitted fence - if it has been long enough and he can prove it.

You can stop adverse possession by clearly claiming/using that portion of your land. For example moving the fence.

Or just get an agreement signed. Say a $1 payment to rent the land for 100 years with a 180 day revocation clause. Get a real estate lawyer to write it up. Can be done as an easement too. If the neighbor won't sign then take down the fence.

---

The water company paid one of the previous owners of my house $6,000 in exchange for an easement that allows continued access to a underground line if needed and forbidding permanent structures in a corner of my lot where a water main runs under. It showed up at closing.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: June 10, 2022 02:06PM
Late comer thread-jack:

I know nobody is a lawyer, or at least not MY lawyer, but I wonder if I had an old, existing shed on my property that is in violation of the current setback rules, could I modify / expand it without having to adhere to setbacks? It's all on my property to be clear, just zero space between it and the back lot line.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: June 10, 2022 02:56PM
Quote
mikebw
Late comer thread-jack:

I know nobody is a lawyer, or at least not MY lawyer, but I wonder if I had an old, existing shed on my property that is in violation of the current setback rules, could I modify / expand it without having to adhere to setbacks? It's all on my property to be clear, just zero space between it and the back lot line.

The building inspectors could still require you to movr it since a shed, by definition, has no foundation.

But short answer is, you could probably get away with it.
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Re: Property line survey fun with back neighbor. With pic. WWYD?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: June 11, 2022 12:56PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
mikebw
Late comer thread-jack:

I know nobody is a lawyer, or at least not MY lawyer, but I wonder if I had an old, existing shed on my property that is in violation of the current setback rules, could I modify / expand it without having to adhere to setbacks? It's all on my property to be clear, just zero space between it and the back lot line.

The building inspectors could still require you to movr it since a shed, by definition, has no foundation.

But short answer is, you could probably get away with it.

Around here, anything under 200 sq ft does not require a foundation. Yes I agree I could probably just do it.
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