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Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 05, 2022 11:35AM




“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 05, 2022 12:01PM
Note that electric "vehicle" sales isn't just automobiles.

Current BYD electric cars;

BYD also sells electric:
- Transit busses
- Coaches
- Vans
- Trucks


"The majority of vehicles are sold within China; however export markets include Bahrain, the Dominican Republic, Ukraine and Moldova."

"The North American headquarters opened in Los Angeles in 2011. As of 2013 BYD Auto sells the e6 and Electric Bus in the United States as fleet vehicles only. BYD has supplied the Los Angeles Metro system with buses since 2015. A 2018 investigation by the Los Angeles Times found reliability issues with the BYD buses."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2022 12:27PM by DeusxMac.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: July 05, 2022 12:02PM
Not for full EV cars, a little stats fudging. BYD is strong, and don’t sell cars in the US yet.
"But the key word in that phrasing is electrified vehicles, as BYD’s tally includes hybrid vehicles, which are considered “new energy vehicles” (NEV) in China, the same category that all-electric cars fall into."

[driveteslacanada.ca]
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: July 05, 2022 12:08PM
Tesla is still ramping up two factories... (Berlin and Austin), and expanding Shanghai.
It's still a race...

Plus, I'm willing to bet that Tesla's profit margin is triple what BYD's is.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: davester
Date: July 05, 2022 12:22PM
If their tally includes hybrids and commercial vehicles, that headline is misleading clickbait.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: July 05, 2022 12:26PM
Tesla is still the only company doing it profitably. That's kind of important. Also, BYD makes quite a few hybrids which are counted in that number...Nonetheless...which would you rather have?

75% market share of 4 million vehicles or 20% market share of 50million vehicles?



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2022 12:31PM by ztirffritz.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2022 12:35PM
Doomed and beleaguered
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 05, 2022 01:03PM
....EV....O(h)O(h)......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Fritz
Date: July 05, 2022 03:03PM
n4n, I wouldn't buy a EV completely made in China.
My last car was completely off the Chinese prod line, but I'd hesitate to do it again.
I have no reason, I just wouldn't.

but

Bring
Your
Doubts

call me a cynic, I will nod enthusiastically.



!#$@@$#!

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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: July 05, 2022 03:09PM
There is a segment of the market that won't consider buying a Teslas now that Musk has made his personal political feelings known on Twitter. More competitors are coming to market.





Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 05, 2022 03:18PM
Wait until the Apple car hits the market!







(Insert non-replaceable battery joke here.)
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2022 03:26PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
There is a segment of the market that won't consider buying a Teslas now that Musk has made his personal political feelings known on Twitter.

I think you're right. However, despite this, Tesla has more demand than supply, so it will not have a practical effect.


Quote
pRICE cUBE
More competitors are coming to market.

They keep saying that, but I don't see it. More specifically, no one except Tesla seems to be making the required significant moves in battery production (which is the bottleneck, even for Tesla).
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: July 05, 2022 03:31PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
pRICE cUBE
There is a segment of the market that won't consider buying a Teslas now that Musk has made his personal political feelings known on Twitter.

I think you're right. However, despite this, Tesla has more demand than supply, so it will not have a practical effect.


Quote
pRICE cUBE
More competitors are coming to market.

They keep saying that, but I don't see it. More specifically, no one except Tesla seems to be making the required significant moves in battery production (which is the bottleneck, even for Tesla).


In order to be competing for the top spot, being apolitical would have helped. The issue for Musk is he can't keep his tweet hole shut.

While sales are fine now, I know of a few families that have at least 1 Teslas and are not considering Tesla for the next car. Musk's political tweets are the sole reason they will not be buying. One of those families bough the EV Mustang. I am not saying this will sink Tesla but it may affect sales. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2022 03:32PM by pRICE cUBE.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2022 03:36PM
The article referenced by OP is basically clickbait BS. It's a bit like saying a golf cart manufacturer is beating Tesla in sales. Because it's all about the batteries. BYD builds smaller/less practical cars, hybrids and other types of non-consumer vehicles, which require less batteries. Practically speaking BYD doesn't have anything that directly competes with Tesla. If you want to talk about Tesla's competition, then you need to talk about NIO and Polestar (I would guess, I haven't really looked at their product lines). This is why Tesla is still king of the hill, with no real challengers. It won't stay that way forever (at least I hope not), but for the time being it is what it is.

All this is a like all the anti-Apple clickbait talking about the iPhone killer or how Apple is otherwise doomed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2022 03:40PM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2022 03:45PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE

In order to be competing for the top spot, being apolitical would have helped. The issue for Musk is he can't keep his tweet hole shut.

I 100% agree with you on the second part of your statement. But Tesla is not competing with anyone for the top spot, because there is no competition. If there was, yes you'd be right.

Quote
pRICE cUBE
While sales are fine now, I know of a few families that have at least 1 Teslas and are not considering Tesla for the next car. Musk's political tweets are the sole reason they will not be buying. One of those families bough the EV Mustang. I am not saying this will sink Tesla but it may affect sales. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I some sense I hope this is true, if anything it'll humble Musk, but I haven't seen this among any of my friends or family. Despite all of Musk's shenanigans, they're only considering Tesla (and some of them already have a Tesla).
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: July 05, 2022 04:29PM
Currently Tesla owns the EV market, everyone else is paying rent. Even in China. Tesla is consuming all the batteries that Panasonic, CATL, BYD, and probably others can make.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Fritz
Date: July 05, 2022 04:33PM
VW/Porsche/Audi is worth $170B.
Elon about $210B
But Elon has his self spread pretty wide.
If VW really steps up to the plate, which I think they will over the next 5 years, don't think Tesla will still be leading. Though I don't think Tesla'll be suffering either.
I also think Elons' tweet hole could cost Tesla some.

But I'm not ready to trade in my Yugo ..... yet.



!#$@@$#!

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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: July 05, 2022 05:17PM
Quote
Ken Sp.
Not for full EV cars, a little stats fudging. BYD is strong, and don’t sell cars in the US yet.
"But the key word in that phrasing is electrified vehicles, as BYD’s tally includes hybrid vehicles, which are considered “new energy vehicles” (NEV) in China, the same category that all-electric cars fall into."

[driveteslacanada.ca]

Numbers don't lie, but you can make them say anything you want.

Dave



Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

Many have eaten here....

Few have died
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 05, 2022 05:18PM
Quote
Fritz
VW/Porsche/Audi is worth $170B.
Elon about $210B
But Elon has his self spread pretty wide.
If VW really steps up to the plate, which I think they will over the next 5 years, don't think Tesla will still be leading. Though I don't think Tesla'll be suffering either.
I also think Elons' tweet hole could cost Tesla some.

But I'm not ready to trade in my Yugo ..... yet.

Right, TSLA will still be a major player, but it will just be one of a half-dozen or more. Wait until Toyota really ramps up, or perhaps the Korean manufacturers. Now there is a Vietnamese nameplate. Bottom line: no one will "own" the market, as it is infinitely easier to manufacture an EV than an ICE automobile.

And, Musk is only worth somewhere close to that amount on paper, while the car manufacturers have physical infrastructure to bolster their worth.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: kj
Date: July 05, 2022 05:48PM
I think Kia/Hyundai is a real challenger for Tesla. I would personally choose the EV6 over the similarly priced Tesla, which I think would be a single motor, etc. They seem to be hitting their stride in a big way. Nio may be another, but that's a definite wait and see since they don't sell in the US.

The little I've read seems to say the Chinese manufactured Tesla is noticeably better built than the US made, so I wouldn't discriminate against Chinese made, necessarily. At least not due to quality concerns.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2022 06:21PM
Quote
Fritz
VW/Porsche/Audi is worth $170B.
Elon about $210B
But Elon has his self spread pretty wide.
If VW really steps up to the plate, which I think they will over the next 5 years, don't think Tesla will still be leading. Though I don't think Tesla'll be suffering either.
I also think Elons' tweet hole could cost Tesla some.

I have most hope for VW, but half of the company doesn't seem to want to cooperate. Their CEO (Herbert Diess) gets it.

There will be plenty of room for multiple car companies (as there is now). The only way Tesla takes it all (and I don't think they want to) is if everyone else rolls over plays dead.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2022 06:24PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
....as it is infinitely easier to manufacture an EV than an ICE automobile.

You would think so, and I agree with you....why the hell did the incumbents drag their feet for so long???
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 05, 2022 06:44PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
mrbigstuff
....as it is infinitely easier to manufacture an EV than an ICE automobile.

You would think so, and I agree with you....why the hell did the incumbents drag their feet for so long???

Let's hold on to what we've got...

Same laissez-faire attitude that caused Detroit big iron to not respond to the small car European/Japanese evolution of the 70s?
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: August West
Date: July 05, 2022 06:51PM
I think everyone should appreciate the pie growing.



“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."

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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 05, 2022 07:02PM
No doubt, I just wish it really was.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Forrest
Date: July 05, 2022 10:11PM
“BYD, the Chinese auto group backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, has dethroned Elon Musk’s Tesla as the world’s biggest electric vehicle producer by sales, signalling China’s rising dominance of the sector.
” according to Financial Times
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: digby
Date: July 05, 2022 10:39PM
I'd like to buy an electric car, but I'm waiting for battery technolo... oh, who am I kidding? I'd buy a Tesla tomorrow if I felt like I could trust Elon to be a grown up, and not do something impulsive:

"Okay, cars were fun, but oops, no more Teslas as of Tuesday. My factories are now building Mars Roombas, the new saucer-shaped vehicles that billionaires will use to get around the newest city on the newest planet, "Metropolitan Muskogee, Mars."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2022 10:45PM by digby.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: davec
Date: July 06, 2022 10:43AM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
mrbigstuff
....as it is infinitely easier to manufacture an EV than an ICE automobile.

You would think so, and I agree with you....why the hell did the incumbents drag their feet for so long???

Let's hold on to what we've got...

Same laissez-faire attitude that caused Detroit big iron to not respond to the small car European/Japanese evolution of the 70s?

And perhaps the same attitude that led to the downfall of Kodak and Polaroid?

Dave



...on the trailing edge of technology.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: July 06, 2022 01:38PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
pRICE cUBE
There is a segment of the market that won't consider buying a Teslas now that Musk has made his personal political feelings known on Twitter.

I think you're right. However, despite this, Tesla has more demand than supply, so it will not have a practical effect.


Quote
pRICE cUBE
More competitors are coming to market.

They keep saying that, but I don't see it. More specifically, no one except Tesla seems to be making the required significant moves in battery production (which is the bottleneck, even for Tesla).


In order to be competing for the top spot, being apolitical would have helped. The issue for Musk is he can't keep his tweet hole shut.

While sales are fine now, I know of a few families that have at least 1 Teslas and are not considering Tesla for the next car. Musk's political tweets are the sole reason they will not be buying. One of those families bough the EV Mustang. I am not saying this will sink Tesla but it may affect sales. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
....and the other 50% of the population will buy them for that reason. It is said that some people let a myopic view make them blind.
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Re: Tesla drops to #2 in worldwide EV sales
Posted by: Fritz
Date: July 07, 2022 10:26AM
VW breaks ground for batt factory



!#$@@$#!

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