advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 29, 2022 02:52PM
[www.thestreet.com]

“Tesla reported net profit of $2.3 billion for the second quarter ended June 30….outperforming GM whose net profit was $1.7 billion….more money than Ford, which reported a net profit of $667 million….however….its [Ford] profits have been reduced by a $2.4 billion decline in the value of its stake in the young rival Rivian.”
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: July 29, 2022 03:03PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
[www.thestreet.com]

“Tesla reported net profit of $2.3 billion for the second quarter ended June 30….outperforming GM whose net profit was $1.7 billion….more money than Ford, which reported a net profit of $667 million….however….its [Ford] profits have been reduced by a $2.4 billion decline in the value of its stake in the young rival Rivian.”

Tesla also has been spending a lot on the two new factories in Berlin and Austin, with very few cars being produced t=in them. Those factories are ramping up and will be close to full production by the end of the year. They also just started a second factory in Shanghai.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 29, 2022 03:06PM
Yes, I was thinking of adding that info….incredible that they’re doing all this despite building new factories. Don’t think GM or Ford are building factories.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 29, 2022 03:28PM
If the latest version of Build, Back, Better is passed, it will restore the tax break for buying an EV. This time it will be $7500 and include Tesla again. That will further drive sales.

Not a Tesla, but that credit will put the 2023 Bolt under $20k!



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 29, 2022 03:30PM
That Bolt is a fantastic deal. It’s true cost of ownership is probably sub-$10,000.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2022 03:32PM by Carnos Jax.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 29, 2022 03:56PM
EV tax credit changes in proposed bill:

New Vehicle Credit

Manufacturer caps eliminated. [Tesla and GM cars once again would be eligible]

Credit applies for vehicles purchased beginning January 1, 2023.

Vehicle must be assembled in North America to qualify for new credit.

North American assembly requirement applies to vehicles sold after the date of adoption of the bill.

$7,500 credit is broke into two binary pieces meaning the vehicle either qualifies for each piece of the credit or it doesn’t. No longer based on size of battery.

$3,750 of the new credit is based upon the vehicle having at least 40% of its battery critical minerals from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the United States.

The other $3,750 of the new credit is based on at least 50% of the battery components of the vehicle coming from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the US.

The 40% minerals requirement increases to 50% in 2024, 60% in 2025, 70% in 2026 and 80% in 2027.

The 50% battery components requirement increases to 60% in 2024, 70% in 2026, 80% in 2027, 90% in 2028 and 100% in 2029.

Beginning in 2025, any vehicle with battery minerals or components from a foreign entity of concern are excluded from the tax credit.

One credit per vehicle.

Modified gross income limit of $150k for individuals, $225k for head of household, and $300k for joint returns. Definition of MAGI

MSRP of vehicle must be $80k or less for SUVs, Vans and Trucks. $55k for all other vehicles. [At present, this means only some Model 3s are eligible from Tesla]

Dealer can apply credit at time of sale. Dealer must disclose to buyer the MSRP of the vehicle, the applicable tax credit amount and the amount of any other available incentive applicable to the purchase.

Credit terminates December 31, 2032.


Used Vehicle Credit

Tax credit of 30% of value of used EV with $4,000 cap

Used vehicle must be at least two model years old at time of sale.

The original use of the vehicle must have occurred with an individual other than the one claiming the used tax credit.

Used vehicle must be purchased from a dealer.

Used vehicle price must be $25k or less.

Used vehicle qualifies for tax credit only once in its lifetime.

Purchaser must be an individual (no businesses) to qualify for used credit.

Purchaser may only claim one used vehicle credit per three years.

Modified gross income cap of $75k for individuals, $112,500 for head of household and $150k for joint returns.

Credit may be applied at time of sale by dealer.

Credit terminates on December 31, 2032.

-> Lotsa interesting aspects, with some “gotchas”. (I’ve been looking for a Prius Prime, but I don’t think that’s assembled in NA, and used ones have easily exceeded the price of new ones ie well over $25k)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Yoyodyne ArtWorks
Date: July 29, 2022 04:32PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
That Bolt is a fantastic deal. It’s true cost of ownership is probably sub-$10,000.

And the psychological scars from driving such an execrable little sheetbox? Priceless.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: July 29, 2022 05:51PM
Quote
pdq

MSRP of vehicle must be $80k or less for SUVs, Vans and Trucks. $55k for all other vehicles. [At present, this means only some Model 3s are eligible from Tesla]

The Model Y is classified as an SUV.

Remember, just like the original $7,500, it is a TAX CREDIT, which means, if you only owe $3,000 in federal tax in the year you buy the vehicle, you only get the $3,000 in credit. It does not carry over to another year.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Rolando
Date: July 29, 2022 08:09PM
Quote
Ken Sp.
Remember, just like the original $7,500, it is a TAX CREDIT, which means, if you only owe $3,000 in federal tax in the year you buy the vehicle, you only get the $3,000 in credit. It does not carry over to another year.

More welfare for the rich (and kinda rich). It would be better spent on charging infrastructure for apartments.

Did they take out the "union manufactured" requirement. I know that had Elon in a snit.
Apparently the did. I wonder if Musky made a contribution of Joe Manchin on this....



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 29, 2022 08:13PM
Quote
Rolando
Quote
Ken Sp.
Remember, just like the original $7,500, it is a TAX CREDIT, which means, if you only owe $3,000 in federal tax in the year you buy the vehicle, you only get the $3,000 in credit. It does not carry over to another year.

More welfare for the rich (and kinda rich). It would be better spent on charging infrastructure for apartments.

Did they take out the "union manufactured" requirement. I know that had Elon in a snit.
Apparently the did. I wonder if Musky made a contribution of Joe Manchin on this....

There may be some provisions that would kill the notion of tax credits in favor of a dealer credit at point of sale. Stay tuned …this credit could also end up be based on income level. So yeah, $7500, but not for everyone, and possibly not entirely dependent on tax liability.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 29, 2022 08:44PM
In the original version of the bill, the tax credit was to be paid in full regardless of what you owed. So even if you had a zero tax liability, you would get the $7500. No idea if that version is what is on the table for this go or not.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 30, 2022 05:15AM
Tesla competes with BMW/MB/etc. not mass-market sellers like Ford/GM.

So you'd expect their margins to be much higher than the latter.

And if you want to talk about welfare for the rich don't forget the federal tax credit for solar...that usually ends up being a lot higher than a measly $7,500.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2022 08:32AM by Bill in NC.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 30, 2022 08:09AM
Quote
Ken Sp.

Remember, just like the original $7,500, it is a TAX CREDIT, which means, if you only owe $3,000 in federal tax in the year you buy the vehicle, you only get the $3,000 in credit. It does not carry over to another year.

I’m not sure that’s true in the proposed bill:

Quote

Dealer can apply credit at time of sale

That seems messy if the buyer is not actually eligible for the credit based on their tax bill.

To be clear, I don’t know the details of how this will work (if passed) - just passing on what I saw on the internets.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 30, 2022 09:32AM
Quote
Ombligo
In the original version of the bill, the tax credit was to be paid in full regardless of what you owed. So even if you had a zero tax liability, you would get the $7500. No idea if that version is what is on the table for this go or not.

Thanks, that's what I thought I had read some time ago.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 30, 2022 10:21AM
I'm hoping for an EV Maverick (or similar low cost pickup). Even if it comes in at $30k, it would be a steal after the rebate.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 31, 2022 12:03AM
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Tesla Makes More Money Than GM and Ford….Despite Having a Fraction of the Sales
Posted by: Rolando
Date: July 31, 2022 02:52AM
Quote
Bill in NC
Tesla competes with BMW/MB/etc. not mass-market sellers like Ford/GM.

In price and performance, but definitely not in interior or build quality.

Quote
Bill in NC
And if you want to talk about welfare for the rich don't forget the federal tax credit for solar...that usually ends up being a lot higher than a measly $7,500.

I did point that out here:
[forums.macresource.com]



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 108
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020