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EV tax credits
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 08, 2022 07:27PM
Assuming the incentives pass the house, here are the EVs that MIGHT qualify. I say might be because of the battery requirements. The bill restricts the full tax credit on new EVs to vehicles with battery minerals sourced from countries that the U.S. has a free trade agreement with or recycled in North America, and with battery components sourced from North America.

If any minerals or components are sourced from “foreign entities of concern,” including China or Russia, the vehicle will not qualify for any tax credit. A 2022 analysis of the EV supply chain from the International Energy Agency shows that the vast majority of minerals, components, and battery cells are currently sourced from China.

“The EV tax credit requirements will make most vehicles immediately ineligible for the incentive,” wrote John Bozzella, president and CEO of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, an auto industry trade group.

These cars meet the price and assembly requirements, but the battery source is still in question. They might qualify but many will not get the full rebate amount due to the battery mineral requirement.

Cadillac Lyriq (only if it is classified as an SUV)
Chevrolet Blazer EV
Chevrolet Bolt
Chevrolet Bolt EUV
Chevrolet Silverado EV (with certain options and trim levels)
Ford F-150 Lightning (with certain options and trim levels)
Ford Mustang Mach-E
Nissan Leaf
Rivian R1S (with certain options and trim levels)
Rivian R1T (with certain options and trim levels)
Tesla Cybertruck (with certain options and trim levels)
Tesla Model 3 (with certain options and trim levels)
Tesla Model Y (only if it is classified as an SUV, and only with certain options and trim levels)
Volkswagen ID.4 (only 2023+ models made in Tennessee)


The following cars will not qualify for the incentive due to their assembly location (Hyundai/Kia are particularly hard hit).

Audi E-Tron
Fisker Ocean
Genesis GV60
Hyundai Ioniq 5
Hyundai Ioniq 6
Hyundai Kona Electric
Hyundai Nexo
Jaguar I-Pace
Kia EV6
Kia Niro Electric
Lexus RZ
Mazda MX-30
Mercedes-Benz EQB
Nissan Ariya
Polestar 2
Subaru Solterra
Toyota bZ4x
Toyota Mirai
Volkswagen ID.4 (only certain models)
Volvo C40

In addition, regardless of where they are assembled, these vehicles are too expensive and will not qualify for any tax credit:

Audi E-Tron GT
BMW i4
BMW i7
BMW iX
Chevrolet Silverado EV (with certain options and trim levels)
Ford F-150 Lightning (with certain options and trim levels)
Genesis G80 Electric
GMC Hummer EV
Lucid Air
Mercedes-Benz EQE
Mercedes-Benz EQS
Porsche Taycan
Rivian R1T (with certain options and trim levels)
Tesla Cybertruck (with certain options and trim levels)
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X



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“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2022 07:28PM by Ombligo.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Gareth
Date: August 08, 2022 07:31PM
I've read that this is an "upfront" credit, meaning the dealer will discount the price you pay by the applicable credit.

But, what I haven't seen is, how does that work if you end up making too much money to qualify for the tax credit? I realize most people will know ahead of time whether they do or not, but I work with a lot of freelancers with variable income from year to year. If the dealer gives you the credit, and then you end up making too much money, do you then have a huge tax bill?
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: freeradical
Date: August 08, 2022 07:32PM
It's going to be years before the common man can afford an EV.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 08, 2022 07:37PM
Quote
freeradical
It's going to be years before the common man can afford an EV.

Actually the Bolt is at the price point of similar gas powered vehicles. Prices have risen so much that the common man cannot afford a new car, period.

My youngest son just bought a Bolt EUV. He makes decent money, but still needed help from Bank Of Dad.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: August 08, 2022 07:38PM
I'm looking at getting a Bolt EUV. When do the tax credits kick in? Guess I will hold off a little bit.



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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 08, 2022 07:46PM
How much profit does a dealer make on an eV?

If a particular eV doesn't qualify for the full tax credit, or not at all, the dealer could theoretically discount the balance of the credit to land the sale, without any tax credit blowback to the customer.

I'm thinking of something similar to the B&H 'tax rebate' where they just discount one's purchase by the same amount of one's state tax rate.

What am I thinking.

It's a seller's market.






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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 08, 2022 07:47PM
Quote
C(-)ris
I'm looking at getting a Bolt EUV. When do the tax credits kick in? Guess I will hold off a little bit.

There is no reason to wait, the Bolt already qualifies for $7500. You will want a 2023 model as Chevy lowered the price from 2022 by $6000.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: August 08, 2022 07:54PM
Quote
Ombligo
Quote
C(-)ris
I'm looking at getting a Bolt EUV. When do the tax credits kick in? Guess I will hold off a little bit.

There is no reason to wait, the Bolt already qualifies for $7500. You will want a 2023 model as Chevy lowered the price from 2022 by $6000.


Looks like you are right. The 2022s are the same price as the 2023 now, Chevy has a $6300 cash allowance on the 22s. I just did two orders online and they were within $100 of each other. No 2023s available, but some 2022s on lots. I might go check out a 22 and see if I can get a deal, otherwise I guess I will order a 2023.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2022 08:02PM by C(-)ris.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: August 08, 2022 08:02PM
Quote
C(-)ris

I thought Chevy was out of credits?

This legislation removes any caps for all manufacturers.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 08, 2022 08:11PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
C(-)ris

I thought Chevy was out of credits?

This legislation removes any caps for all manufacturers.

smiley-score010



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 08, 2022 09:26PM
There is a very real possibility that no vehicle will qualify for the full amount next year.

[arstechnica.com]
[insideevs.com]



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 09, 2022 03:21AM
Hm.


A 2023 in Summit white with everything but the Super Cruise package and the Premier Redline package, $35,190 before tax, license, undercoating, etc.

Not sure if I can get away from the red wheels though.

The 2023 Bolt is ok looking but still not sexy, like the Volts.

Out of curiosity, what's the current draw in Amps, for eVs charging via 110VAC?

Under 15/20A?






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Sam3
Date: August 09, 2022 05:47AM
I was just looking at the Blazer EV, all reservations for the 2023 are filled, you can get in line for a 2024. I need a larger vehicle for carrying stuff, and the RS trim includes a towing package.

Looking at the website, dealer sets price, so they could just as easily take the tax credit and sell you the car for list price. Or still upcharge to a higher than list price.



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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 09, 2022 06:21AM
Quote
RAMd®d
Hm.


A 2023 in Summit white with everything but the Super Cruise package and the Premier Redline package, $35,190 before tax, license, undercoating, etc.

Not sure if I can get away from the red wheels though.

The 2023 Bolt is ok looking but still not sexy, like the Volts.

Out of curiosity, what's the current draw in Amps, for eVs charging via 110VAC?

Under 15/20A?

12A. But my two PHEVs default to 8A; I have to go through the menus to bump it to 12A each time I plug in. For my driving, I just leave it at 8A to charge overnight. If I need a faster charge I swap places with my wife’s car for all the Amps my car’s onboard charger can accept.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: August 09, 2022 06:48AM
And when will they start applying a highway tax to these vehicles?
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: DP
Date: August 09, 2022 07:40AM
Battery Experts Provide Deeper Explanations for Chevy Bolt Fires

[www.autoweek.com]





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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 09, 2022 08:30AM
Quote
macphanatic
And when will they start applying a highway tax to these vehicles?

Thank you for your concern, but fear not, your taxing agencies are aware of this evolving situation and are making adjustments: [www.ncsl.org]
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: mikebw
Date: August 09, 2022 08:32AM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
freeradical
It's going to be years before the common man can afford an EV.

Actually the Bolt is at the price point of similar gas powered vehicles. Prices have risen so much that the common man cannot afford a new car, period.

My youngest son just bought a Bolt EUV. He makes decent money, but still needed help from Bank Of Dad.

I feel mostly common, but somehow was able to afford a Leaf. Of course that was JUST before pandemic lockdown 2020 and there were still 2019 models sitting on the lot. Like cbelt3 says, things have gotten more expensive, not to mention supply issues.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 09, 2022 08:46AM
Quote
macphanatic
And when will they start applying a highway tax to these vehicles?

We pay when we re-register - tax paid in advance.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: August 09, 2022 09:08AM
If you're not eligible for the new credit (income is too high), there is some provision in the law to lock in your purchase under the old credit, if the manufacturer still has any available. Requires quick action, IIRC. Sorry, no more link or details, just came across is browsing...
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Spiff
Date: August 09, 2022 11:55AM
Quote
Sam3
I was just looking at the Blazer EV, all reservations for the 2023 are filled, you can get in line for a 2024. I need a larger vehicle for carrying stuff, and the RS trim includes a towing package.

Looking at the website, dealer sets price, so they could just as easily take the tax credit and sell you the car for list price. Or still upcharge to a higher than list price.

Sam3, what kind of hauling and for how far? I am on the list to get a Pacifica Minivan - PHEV. Can go 30-ish miles on battery alone. That is my day of driving. I plan to not fill up for gas but once every other month and for long vacation drives.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Maddog
Date: August 09, 2022 03:32PM
Don't skip the super cruise! If there is one feature on my Volt that I would not want to live without, it is the adaptive cruise control. That is a game changer.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: August 09, 2022 04:01PM
I agree, even if u only drive long distances a few times a year, it is totally worth it. Reduces driving fatigue considerably, thereby enhancing safety.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 09, 2022 04:03PM
Quote
Maddog
Don't skip the super cruise! If there is one feature on my Volt that I would not want to live without, it is the adaptive cruise control. That is a game changer.

No kidding. I had that in a car that was short lived but I now search that out.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 09, 2022 04:03PM
Don't skip the super cruise! If there is one feature on my Volt that I would not want to live without, it is the adaptive cruise control. That is a game changer.


I've seldom used my current ride's cruise control, so the Super Cruise option didn't seem worthwhile.

But adaptive cruise control might be the answer as to why I seldom bothered with it.

Anyway, this was just an exploratory exercise, as it doesn't really make financial sense to me to go eV when my car is still in great shape.

That also stops me from getting one as a second car, I have my bike for that.

But I do like the idea, especially since charging off 110V overnight would suit 99% of my eVing.

Maybe if I play and win the Lottery.

But I do have eV enVy.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: August 09, 2022 04:49PM
So if most of the mining and refining of battery minerals is currently happening in countries without Free Trade Agreements then the value of the domestically recycled battery content goes up dramatically. It takes the better part of a decade to start up a lithium mine. Lots of Cobalt comes from DRC and is mined by children. Nickel comes from Canada, Russia, China, Australia, and Indonsia. Most nickel is used for stainless steel production, but of the portion allocated for battery use, Tesla have locked up about 1/3 of the supply for the foreseeable future.

So it seems to me that investing in battery recyclers is probably a good idea.

These are some of the investment options that I'm aware of for domestic recyclers:
Redivivus
Li-Cycle
Redwood Materials

For domestic component supply:
Novonix: Kind of Australian, kind of Canadian, but has a factory opening in Chattanooga soon making graphite anode material.
EnergyX: developing low-impact ways to extract lithium from the salts and brines such as the Salton Sea, Bonneville, Atacama desert, etc.



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Re: EV tax credits
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 10, 2022 05:58AM
Quote
Maddog
Don't skip the super cruise! If there is one feature on my Volt that I would not want to live without, it is the adaptive cruise control. That is a game changer.

I hate my adaptive cruise. It doesn’t let me close close enough to the vehicle ahead before applying the brakes. I’m changing lanes to pass and suddenly the brakes come on. I hate it. Or a vehicle enters the roadway far ahead and on come the brakes. I have it set at the closest setting. I like to use cruise control in town so I can drive 30 MPH without having to keep an eye on my speedometer. Adaptive cruise sucks due to turning and entering cars.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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