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This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 17, 2022 03:09PM
A car's shape, outside of balance, of course, has been predicated on the drivetrain using propeller shaft (CV, etc) technology. Once that necessity is removed, the traditional automobile can be reinvented.

The electric motor at every wheel is something a friend and I mused over 30 plus years ago, it's great to see it finally coming to fruition. BMW is not the only company working toward this change, of course: Nissan, Porsche, Hyundai have all listed this as future tech.


From Motor Trend magazine:

[www.motortrend.com]
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: hal
Date: August 17, 2022 03:14PM
a car is always going to be built around a rectangular frame with four wheels... I don't see a huge change coming to the overall shape. Not like cameras that were built around a roll of film that needed to be dispensed and retrieved. They can now be any shape you please.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Gareth
Date: August 17, 2022 03:28PM
I don't see anything in that article about the "shape" of vehicles. Sure, there will be internal changes in how you lay out components, but nothing about changing the basic shape.

I think we have the potential to have more "boxy" EV's with more interior space (i.e. Canoo), but in a sense, we've already had that (VW Bus/Vanagon, Toyota Van/Previa), but those don't work as well now either because of crash test regulations or just the public's perception of needing a crumple zone (I still have an '87 Toyota Van and it's unnerving to think what would happen in a head on collision).

Now, when we get fully autonomous vehicles that can talk to each other and our the only things on the road, so there would "never" be crashes, then we can really reshape things.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: deckeda
Date: August 17, 2022 04:07PM
"Each corner of the car gets its own motor"

OK but not actually at each corner but for each corner. There will be a short driveshaft at each, with motors suspended normally, along with the rest of the chassis.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 17, 2022 04:11PM
Quote
deckeda
"Each corner of the car gets its own motor"

OK but not actually at each corner but for each corner. There will be a short driveshaft at each, with motors suspended normally, along with the rest of the chassis.

Different tech, there are wheels at the motor coming.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: deckeda
Date: August 17, 2022 04:24PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
deckeda
"Each corner of the car gets its own motor"

OK but not actually at each corner but for each corner. There will be a short driveshaft at each, with motors suspended normally, along with the rest of the chassis.

Different tech, there are wheels at the motor coming.

Yeah, which is why I was reacting to the press release's text published by Motor Trend
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 17, 2022 04:59PM
Quote
Gareth
I don't see anything in that article about the "shape" of vehicles. Sure, there will be internal changes in how you lay out components, but nothing about changing the basic shape.

I think we have the potential to have more "boxy" EV's with more interior space (i.e. Canoo), but in a sense, we've already had that (VW Bus/Vanagon, Toyota Van/Previa), but those don't work as well now either because of crash test regulations or just the public's perception of needing a crumple zone (I still have an '87 Toyota Van and it's unnerving to think what would happen in a head on collision).

Now, when we get fully autonomous vehicles that can talk to each other and our the only things on the road, so there would "never" be crashes, then we can really reshape things.

There's lots of chatter in car circles of what vehicle designs will look like in 10 or 20 years. I'm not sure it will change radically, as buyers will stick with what they know. But Tesla Cybertruck? Radical for radical's sake, perhaps, but it's breaking new ground.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: August 17, 2022 05:12PM
This is a little tangential, but electric vehicles are supposedly green, and a change that should be taking place to make them greener from a climate change perspective isn't currently being implemented. All newer cars should have white roofs or a seasonally swappable liner to enable them to reflect white. Light roofs lower temps inside the vehicle and reduce AC use and, thereby, fuel expenditure; high luminance might also reduce heat islands where large amounts of vehicles cluster in parking lots. Buses and UPS trucks have been doing this for some time.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 17, 2022 05:35PM

India/Chinese joint venture to lead the way



some may prefer the U.S. version



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2022 05:40PM by Steve G..
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: PeterB
Date: August 17, 2022 05:42PM
Quote
hal
a car is always going to be built around a rectangular frame with four wheels... I don't see a huge change coming to the overall shape. Not like cameras that were built around a roll of film that needed to be dispensed and retrieved. They can now be any shape you please.

Hmmmm...?









... admittedly, these will take some getting used to...




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2022 05:47PM by PeterB.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: davester
Date: August 17, 2022 05:46PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
deckeda
"Each corner of the car gets its own motor"

OK but not actually at each corner but for each corner. There will be a short driveshaft at each, with motors suspended normally, along with the rest of the chassis.

Different tech, there are wheels at the motor coming.

I don't see that as a possibility since unsprung weight (i.e. the mass of components attached directly to the wheels and not carried by the suspension is a huge problem for performance, cornering, component failure, etc, which is why automotive engineers are always striving to reduce unsprung weight.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Gareth
Date: August 17, 2022 05:58PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
But Tesla Cybertruck? Radical for radical's sake, perhaps, but it's breaking new ground.

Radical, sure? But from the outside, it just looks like different sheet metal. Nothing about it screams that it's that way because it's an EV. Could easily be hiding an ICE engine in the front.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Gareth
Date: August 17, 2022 06:03PM
Quote
davester
don't see that as a possibility since unsprung weight (i.e. the mass of components attached directly to the wheels and not carried by the suspension is a huge problem for performance, cornering, component failure, etc, which is why automotive engineers are always striving to reduce unsprung weight.

There are still various companies exploring in wheel motors though. Looks like they haven't made it to mainstream car production yet though. But are used in smaller vehicles (i.e. scooters) and maybe for specialty applications (i.e. EV retrofits).

[evcentral.com.au]
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Fritz
Date: August 17, 2022 06:32PM
if it ain't .....





!#$@@$#!

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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 17, 2022 07:06PM
Quote
Fritz
if it ain't .....





A California-based company, Electric GT, has turned a 1978 Ferrari into an electric car.

"APRIL 25, 2018 - Californian Eric Hutchinson has built the very first electric 1978 Ferrari 308 GTS."

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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: lost in space
Date: August 17, 2022 07:31PM
Well, better a 308 than a Dino.


Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Fritz
if it ain't .....





A California-based company, Electric GT, has turned a 1978 Ferrari into an electric car.

"APRIL 25, 2018 - Californian Eric Hutchinson has built the very first electric 1978 Ferrari 308 GTS."




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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Don C
Date: August 17, 2022 08:53PM
Circus wagons photographed at the Ringling Museum in Baraboo, WI.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: August 17, 2022 10:08PM
Quote
Don C
Circus wagons photographed at the Ringling Museum in Baraboo, WI.

Gorgeous, aren't they. Lots of others if you image search 'circus wagon'
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 17, 2022 11:40PM
Quote
Don C
Circus wagons photographed at the Ringling Museum in Baraboo, WI.

I believe that’s the “Circus World Museum” in Wisconsin. The “Ringling Museum” is in Sarasota, Florida. It includes the Circus Museum and the Tibbals Learning Center.

“The Circus Museum, established in 1948, is the first museum of its kind to document the history of the circus. The museum has a collection of handbills, posters and art prints, circus paper, business records, wardrobe, performing props, circus equipment, and parade wagons.”
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: August 18, 2022 08:20AM
Hub motors create an unsprung weight issue that will wreck any chance of having a moderately good handling vehicle. Lordstown motors is trying to use them in an electric utility pickup truck, the Endurance. I doubt it will be a performance vehicle, but it does create some unique opportunities that come with the drawbacks. The suspension can be articulated in ways not previously possible. It won't win any beauty contests, but it's not a terrible looking truck.



Aptera, pictured in a post above, is also planning to use hub motors. Again, probably won't be a high-performance vehicle as it's a 3-wheeled vehicle, so the hub motor might not be an issue for them.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: August 18, 2022 08:32AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Radical for radical's sake, perhaps, but it's breaking new ground.

As vaporware.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: CJsNvrUrly
Date: August 18, 2022 10:11AM
We have a deposit on an Aptera.
Aptera




bunny smileyCentral VA
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: August 18, 2022 12:07PM
Quote
ztirffritz
Hub motors create an unsprung weight issue that will wreck any chance of having a moderately good handling vehicle. Lordstown motors is trying to use them in an electric utility pickup truck, the Endurance. I doubt it will be a performance vehicle, but it does create some unique opportunities that come with the drawbacks. The suspension can be articulated in ways not previously possible. It won't win any beauty contests, but it's not a terrible looking truck.



Aptera, pictured in a post above, is also planning to use hub motors. Again, probably won't be a high-performance vehicle as it's a 3-wheeled vehicle, so the hub motor might not be an issue for them.

This article is 9 years old, but shows that designers and engineers have been working on this for some time, and indeed, it's nothing new in the RC world, for example. The takeaway from this exercise:

The drive has a total weight of 53kg, so there is a weight increase compared to a conventional wheel with a wheel bearing and brake of 45kg, and it outweighs its Alpha-generation predecessor, which still featured power electronics installed in the vehicle, by an additional six kilograms.

“Overall, we were able to reduce the vehicle weight once again”, explains Dr. Raphael Fischer, director of the wheel hub drives product group in Schaeffler’s eMobility systems division. “This is because, in addition to the liquid cooling, the power electronics and controller can now be integrated into the wheel, which means that the complex wiring in the vehicle can be omitted."

“This highly integrated wheel-hub drive makes it possible to rethink the city car without restrictions; and could be a key factor in new vehicle concepts and automobile platforms in the future,” says Schaeffler’s chief technology officer, Professor Peter Gutzmer. “For electric vehicles used in urban environments, which may become obligatory in many densely populated areas, the wheel hub drive makes previously unheard-of space savings possible.

“In these new vehicle concepts, all components that are relevant for propulsion, braking, and driving safety are housed inside the wheel,” adds Professor Gutzmer. “The vehicle platform therefore provides maximum space for passengers, luggage, and for the battery, electronics, and communication systems. And vehicle manufacturers can use this as a basis for a range of different body designs. Automobile manufacture originally started in just the same way.”


[www.dpaonthenet.net]
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 18, 2022 12:26PM
Quote
CJsNvrUrly
We have a deposit on an Aptera.
Aptera

Cool. Let us know how it goes.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: This is the Big Change the EVs will facilitate; this tech will change the shape of the automobile
Posted by: davester
Date: August 18, 2022 12:45PM
Quote
ztirffritz
Hub motors create an unsprung weight issue that will wreck any chance of having a moderately good handling vehicle. Lordstown motors is trying to use them in an electric utility pickup truck, the Endurance. I doubt it will be a performance vehicle, but it does create some unique opportunities that come with the drawbacks. The suspension can be articulated in ways not previously possible. It won't win any beauty contests, but it's not a terrible looking truck.



Aptera, pictured in a post above, is also planning to use hub motors. Again, probably won't be a high-performance vehicle as it's a 3-wheeled vehicle, so the hub motor might not be an issue for them.

I don't believe that is an Aptera. This is an Aptera, which is actually a three-wheeled enclosed motorcycle, not a car. This is how they get around all the safety requirements that cars have to meet.




"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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