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Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: August 28, 2022 04:43PM
A neighbor across the street and a neighbor down the street just had their catalytic converters stolen. The vehicles were a 15 year old Honda Accord coupe and 10 year old Subaru Legacy wagon. One was stolen around 6am when there was plenty of light to see what was going on.

Any suggestions on how to protect a vehicle from this type of theft?



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 28, 2022 05:01PM
There are cages. They won't stop a determined thief, they they may encourage it move to an easier mark.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Todd's keyboard
Date: August 28, 2022 05:26PM
A friend of mine who lives in Oakland, California, and parks his Ford (not sure which model) on the street has had his cc stolen twice in recent months. His after-market cage options seems to be either $300 or $500.

Todd's disappointed keyboard
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 05:39PM
i’m researching this now as i will be in Oakland CA for three months with my Honda Element. lots of youtube vids on this. trying to decide if any one does protection in GA and would it be less expensive to do it before i leave.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: August 28, 2022 05:58PM
A cage only slows them down.
Park in a locked garage.
Replace it with a straight pipe so there is nothing to steal (not legal and not an option in a state where they test regularly).



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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 06:32PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
A cage only slows them down.
Park in a locked garage.
Replace it with a straight pipe so there is nothing to steal (not legal and not an option in a state where they test regularly).

you do realize a locked garage is not an option for everyone, right? though a lot happen at night, many of them are stolen while people are at work or shopping. it's very brazen. yes, a lot of states/area require cats on cars. my part of GA and i think all of california.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: August 28, 2022 06:40PM
Quote
graylocks
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
A cage only slows them down.
Park in a locked garage.
Replace it with a straight pipe so there is nothing to steal (not legal and not an option in a state where they test regularly).

you do realize a locked garage is not an option for everyone, right? though a lot happen at night, many of them are stolen while people are at work or shopping. it's very brazen. yes, a lot of states/area require cats on cars. my part of GA and i think all of california.

I would think a cage would discourage them and make them move on to another car.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 06:51PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
I would think a cage would discourage them and make them move on to another car.

absolutely. to some extent it is a crime of opportunity.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: testcase
Date: August 28, 2022 06:56PM
What Acer said:


Check:


[www.allstate.com]
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: GGD
Date: August 28, 2022 07:11PM
Quote
testcase
What Acer said:


Check:


[www.allstate.com]

Quote
allstate.com
Paint your catalytic converter to deter buyers – some local police departments even offer free programs for painting

I've seen that mentioned a number of times since the thefts started but really don't understand how that's going to help. I'm not even sure if the thieves keep the outer shell of the cat or if their buyers would be any more suspicious of a painted cat than they are of a repeat seller of sawed off cats.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 28, 2022 07:19PM
I’d get some quotes for a cage in rural GA if you have time. Or rural AL or rural MS or rural AR or rural OK.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: fauch
Date: August 28, 2022 07:57PM
I don't understand how people can literally saw off catalytic converters in the middle of the street and no one notices or says anything. It's not like stealing hubcaps or hood ornaments.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 28, 2022 07:59PM
I work in the suburbs in a well-to-do neighborhood. Someone stole two entire wheels of my coworker's jeep in broad daylight, during work hours. Just act like you belong, and no one will bother you.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 08:01PM
Quote
GGD
I've seen that mentioned a number of times since the thefts started but really don't understand how that's going to help. I'm not even sure if the thieves keep the outer shell of the cat or if their buyers would be any more suspicious of a painted cat than they are of a repeat seller of sawed off cats.

i've seen that in a number of vids in my research. the thieves don't extract the metals themselves. they take the cat to dealers. some states have strict laws about taking in cat and if a dealer suspects it's stolen they won't risk buying it. besides painting it's also recommended to etch the VIN or license plate number. again, mostly a deterrent. i may paint my cat but i also want a cage or something.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 08:02PM
Quote
fauch
I don't understand how people can literally saw off catalytic converters in the middle of the street and no one notices or says anything. It's not like stealing hubcaps or hood ornaments.

supposedly it can be done wicked fast with a sawzall.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 28, 2022 08:13PM
A cage would work.... a 2' by 2' by 4' cage... Stuff the thief in it. Weld it shut. When he dies, open it back up and ready it for the next thief.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Ammo
Date: August 28, 2022 08:38PM
Quote
Paul F.
A cage would work.... a 2' by 2' by 4' cage... Stuff the thief in it. Weld it shut. When he dies, open it back up and ready it for the next thief.

My fantasy involves poisonous snakes.



Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 28, 2022 08:44PM
Quote
Ammo
Quote
Paul F.
A cage would work.... a 2' by 2' by 4' cage... Stuff the thief in it. Weld it shut. When he dies, open it back up and ready it for the next thief.

My fantasy involves poisonous snakes.

The two plans are not mutually exclusive...



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 28, 2022 09:41PM
they they may encourage it move to an easier mark.


A particular car may be targeted by a thief because he knows the owner's routine, and in once instance, I was told the thief went after a particular car because it was the same make and model as his and somebody stolen his converter.

Both instances are pretty rare.

Generally, thieves go looking for car that's accessible and there's nobody out and about in the immediate areal

The real risk is when the sawzall starts up, but that's probably less then 60s, certainly no more than 90s, and he/they're gone.

So yes a cage 'only slows down' a determined thief.

But there are no stats on how many cats have been saved by being caged.

Or indoors.


I thought that Volts were pretty low to the ground.

The thieves bring their own jack, I guess.

But that takes some time, and some balls.






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all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

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There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

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And hope is a lousy defense.

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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 09:51PM
Quote
RAMd®d
I thought that Volts were pretty low to the ground.

they are and not often targeted. i'll be taking my Honda Element to CA. Nice and high with primo cat access.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2022 09:51PM by graylocks.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 28, 2022 10:21PM
Quote
graylocks
supposedly it can be done wicked fast with a sawzall.

Yup. Right after they cut off the cage.

[www.youtube.com]



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Spiff
Date: August 28, 2022 11:00PM
Quote
fauch
I don't understand how people can literally saw off catalytic converters in the middle of the street and no one notices or says anything. It's not like stealing hubcaps or hood ornaments.

Happened to a friend of ours about a year ago. At 2AM, firefighter neighbor got off work and was winding down at home when he heard something outside. The 6' something buff fire fighter went out to investigate only to find someone under the car of our friends. His accomplice stood up and put a hand into his hoodie pocket and moved threateningly towards the firefighter. Said something to the effect - this aint your business. Go away.

By the time the firefighter got in the house and called 911, the crooks were long gone. That's how they can do this, even witnessed. Intimidation.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 11:01PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
graylocks
supposedly it can be done wicked fast with a sawzall.

Yup. Right after they cut off the cage.

[www.youtube.com]

your statement belies what the vid you link to actually says which is cages, or in this case cable wraps do deter thieves. it is important to do one's homework and chose a system that would take more time and effort to defeat than the risk of getting caught is worth.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 28, 2022 11:18PM
If you put a rod inside a hollow, slightly flattened (to thwart a pipe cutter) tube you can really slow a thief who is using a Sawzall because the rod will spin inside the tubing as the thief saws. You will have to figure out a way to make it very difficult to access the ends of the tube where the loose rod ends. You can keep the rod from rattling by stuffing some steel wool inside the tubing.

The best thing to do is to legislate how used converters are sold/disposed.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 28, 2022 11:21PM
Quote
Speedy
If you put a rod inside a hollow, slightly flattened (to thwart a pipe cutter) tube you can really slow a thief who is using a Sawzall because the rod will spin inside the tubing as the thief saws. You will have to figure out a way to make it very difficult to access the ends of the tube where the loose rod ends. You can keep the rod from rattling by stuffing some steel wool inside the tubing.

The best thing to do is to legislate how used converters are sold/disposed.

besides cages there's a wide variety of ways people have welded or otherwise attached rods that a sawzall would have a tough time cutting through quickly.

CA has laws and cat theft is rampant there. seems some of the cats are shipped overseas.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 29, 2022 12:37AM
Quote
graylocks

CA has laws and cat theft is rampant there. seems some of the cats are shipped overseas.

I'm in LA and it's to the point where these are being hawked on Fecesbook Marketplace seemingly without consequence.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: August 29, 2022 07:20AM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
graylocks

CA has laws and cat theft is rampant there. seems some of the cats are shipped overseas.

I'm in LA and it's to the point where these are being hawked on Fecesbook Marketplace seemingly without consequence.

And this is what you get when people aren't held accountable for bad behavior.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Michael
Date: August 29, 2022 08:21AM
Quote
graylocks
Quote
GGD
I've seen that mentioned a number of times since the thefts started but really don't understand how that's going to help. I'm not even sure if the thieves keep the outer shell of the cat or if their buyers would be any more suspicious of a painted cat than they are of a repeat seller of sawed off cats.

i've seen that in a number of vids in my research. the thieves don't extract the metals themselves. they take the cat to dealers. some states have strict laws about taking in cat and if a dealer suspects it's stolen they won't risk buying it. besides painting it's also recommended to etch the VIN or license plate number. again, mostly a deterrent. i may paint my cat but i also want a cage or something.

Here's something where I'd bet most of us would agree that the federal government might pass a very useful set of laws: require manufacturers to etch a VIN on a cat converter and also mandate that recyclers can't accept extracted metals but only whole converters and that they record a driver's license number along with the VIN for any brought in. Or some law/policy that would make recyclers be very cautious about buying one that might be stolen.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 29, 2022 08:47AM
Quote
Michael
Quote
graylocks
Quote
GGD
I've seen that mentioned a number of times since the thefts started but really don't understand how that's going to help. I'm not even sure if the thieves keep the outer shell of the cat or if their buyers would be any more suspicious of a painted cat than they are of a repeat seller of sawed off cats.

i've seen that in a number of vids in my research. the thieves don't extract the metals themselves. they take the cat to dealers. some states have strict laws about taking in cat and if a dealer suspects it's stolen they won't risk buying it. besides painting it's also recommended to etch the VIN or license plate number. again, mostly a deterrent. i may paint my cat but i also want a cage or something.

Here's something where I'd bet most of us would agree that the federal government might pass a very useful set of laws: require manufacturers to etch a VIN on a cat converter and also mandate that recyclers can't accept extracted metals but only whole converters and that they record a driver's license number along with the VIN for any brought in. Or some law/policy that would make recyclers be very cautious about buying one that might be stolen.

Black market scrappers will always pay, but we can make sure the legit scrappers aren't tempted by closing any plausible deniability loopholes.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 29, 2022 10:10AM
these creeps took the time to jack the car up. removing the cat itself took about 25 seconds. there are some sounds so i don't know why we don't hear the sawzall. do they have silencers?

youtube



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2022 10:10AM by graylocks.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: August 29, 2022 10:22AM
EV adoption will slow catalytic converter thefts radically.

emoticon-animal-004



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: August 29, 2022 10:27AM
Quote
Markintosh
EV adoption will slow catalytic converter thefts radically.

emoticon-animal-004

To be followed by battery theft?
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 29, 2022 11:19AM
To be followed by battery theft?


That could also be categorized auto theft.

And not the first time vehicles were stolen solely for parts.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2022 11:20AM by RAMd®d.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 29, 2022 11:21AM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
Markintosh
EV adoption will slow catalytic converter thefts radically.

emoticon-animal-004

To be followed by battery theft?

If someone can extract the traction battery in 30 seconds or less and run with it they can have it. I'm not going to argue with the brute.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 29, 2022 12:26PM
Unethical Protip: Source a pipe and a couple clamps, ready to patch in case the cat is taken. When the cat is taken, install said pipe until your next inspection is due, deal with it then. You'll only have to replace your cat once a year!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2022 12:27PM by Acer.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: August 29, 2022 01:32PM
Quote
Acer
Unethical Protip: Source a pipe and a couple clamps, ready to patch in case the cat is taken. When the cat is taken, install said pipe until your next inspection is due, deal with it then. You'll only have to replace your cat once a year!

Or just take it out. Have an exahust shop weld in flanges on each side of the cat with donut gaskets. Then get flanges welded on the cat and welded on a straight pipe. Straight pipe goes in until you need an inspection, then the cat goes in and comes right back out as soon as you are home. People have been doing this with track cars for years, cats on when on the streets, cats off on the track. Only takes a few minutes to swap.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2022 01:33PM by C(-)ris.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: decay
Date: August 30, 2022 09:33AM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Acer
Unethical Protip: Source a pipe and a couple clamps, ready to patch in case the cat is taken. When the cat is taken, install said pipe until your next inspection is due, deal with it then. You'll only have to replace your cat once a year!

Or just take it out. Have an exhaust shop weld in flanges on each side of the cat with donut gaskets. Then get flanges welded on the cat and welded on a straight pipe. Straight pipe goes in until you need an inspection, then the cat goes in and comes right back out as soon as you are home. People have been doing this with track cars for years, cats on when on the streets, cats off on the track. Only takes a few minutes to swap.

Interesting idea!



---




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2022 09:33AM by decay.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 30, 2022 09:36AM
Quote
decay
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Acer
Unethical Protip: Source a pipe and a couple clamps, ready to patch in case the cat is taken. When the cat is taken, install said pipe until your next inspection is due, deal with it then. You'll only have to replace your cat once a year!

Or just take it out. Have an exhaust shop weld in flanges on each side of the cat with donut gaskets. Then get flanges welded on the cat and welded on a straight pipe. Straight pipe goes in until you need an inspection, then the cat goes in and comes right back out as soon as you are home. People have been doing this with track cars for years, cats on when on the streets, cats off on the track. Only takes a few minutes to swap.

Interesting idea!

Not car savvy but this sounds like it defeats the environmental benefits of having a catalytic converter, no?



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2022 09:37AM by graylocks.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: Gareth
Date: August 30, 2022 11:32AM
Quote
graylocks
Quote
decay
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Acer
Unethical Protip: Source a pipe and a couple clamps, ready to patch in case the cat is taken. When the cat is taken, install said pipe until your next inspection is due, deal with it then. You'll only have to replace your cat once a year!

Or just take it out. Have an exhaust shop weld in flanges on each side of the cat with donut gaskets. Then get flanges welded on the cat and welded on a straight pipe. Straight pipe goes in until you need an inspection, then the cat goes in and comes right back out as soon as you are home. People have been doing this with track cars for years, cats on when on the streets, cats off on the track. Only takes a few minutes to swap.

Interesting idea!

Not car savvy but this sounds like it defeats the environmental benefits of having a catalytic converter, no?

Correct. And not all shops may be willing to do it on an otherwise road-legal car, since defeating emissions devices can carry severe penalties.
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Re: Ways to protect catalytic converters?
Posted by: gabester
Date: August 30, 2022 10:28PM
Quote
Acer
Quote
Michael
Quote
graylocks
Quote
GGD
I've seen that mentioned a number of times since the thefts started but really don't understand how that's going to help. I'm not even sure if the thieves keep the outer shell of the cat or if their buyers would be any more suspicious of a painted cat than they are of a repeat seller of sawed off cats.

i've seen that in a number of vids in my research. the thieves don't extract the metals themselves. they take the cat to dealers. some states have strict laws about taking in cat and if a dealer suspects it's stolen they won't risk buying it. besides painting it's also recommended to etch the VIN or license plate number. again, mostly a deterrent. i may paint my cat but i also want a cage or something.

Here's something where I'd bet most of us would agree that the federal government might pass a very useful set of laws: require manufacturers to etch a VIN on a cat converter and also mandate that recyclers can't accept extracted metals but only whole converters and that they record a driver's license number along with the VIN for any brought in. Or some law/policy that would make recyclers be very cautious about buying one that might be stolen.

Black market scrappers will always pay, but we can make sure the legit scrappers aren't tempted by closing any plausible deniability loopholes.

And with well constructed legislation we can slowly but surely squeeze out the black market scrappers.



g=
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