So, I have four recessed can lights in my living room ceiling in the house we just bought over the summer. I’d like to put them on a dimmer. They are apparently not controlled by any breaker in the main panel. I’ve switched off every. single. one. and the lights stay on. If I flip the main panel breaker, they go off. What is going on here? Were they wired directly without going through a breaker, or is there a possibility of a less stupid/dangerous explanation? There’s a sub panel in the laundry room for a furnace that didn’t do anything, and I even tried the one for the hot tub outside. No dice. I don’t know of any other panels, but I suppose there could be one somewhere. The main panel is full, but shouldn’t a general sub panel that’s just been added for more capacity be right by the main one? I could just shut the whole thing down and replace the switch, but knowing what’s going on would give me a little more peace of mind.

Time for a direct short or an electrician.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

two words: licensed electrician

You could buy a set of smart light bulbs and dedicated smart switch?

You did not mention if they are controlled by any light switch.

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San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


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There very well could be an additional panel that you haven't found yet. Our house has no less than four panels, and they are not close to one another, and one is in a stand-up crawlspace (is that even legal?) . I find this really annoying. If I were you I'd spend a bit of time hunting for another panel but if that isn't fruitful, you might want to purchase a circuit breaker finder and an adapter to plug it into your can light. That will tell you which breaker the current is running through. It is possible that the breaker for that circuit has failed in the always on position. Also, do you have a Federal Pacific panel? These are notorious for failed breakers and house fires. If you have one of those it is definitely time to call the electrician before the house burns down.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

I'd map all of the circuits in the house. Who knows what else is @#$%& up.

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It could have been a prior homeowner / tenant's DIY "upgrade" where the person simply spliced said cans into whatever wire they could get easy access to. Have you tried flipping switches in adjoining rooms / areas? That's where I would start looking. There are circuit tracing tools available.

There is a lovely tool called a wire tracer... It's great for mysteries. Mine helped me understand the weird stuff my father in law did in his house.

I would start by mapping the whole house. Just go room by room - draw a map, include every light switch, outlet, etc. Shut off a breaker, and go through the house seeing what turned off. Repeat for all the breakers.

Subpanels run off the main service panel, so if you shut off all the circuits in the main panel, you should have shut off the subpanel at some point.

If there is a separate main panel, with seperate entran TV e facilities, then the switch/fixture could be powered seperately, but that's a pretty unlikely scenario, unless it's a multifamily dwelling.

Like us you probably have a sub panel, you just haven't found it yet.

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Grateful11

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Grateful11
Like us you probably have a sub panel, you just haven't found it yet.

Mu understanding is that a sub panel is fed from the main panel. So I would imagine that one or two of the breakers feed the sub panel, so eventually those light should go off.

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gadje

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Grateful11
Like us you probably have a sub panel, you just haven't found it yet.

Mu understanding is that a sub panel is fed from the main panel. So I would imagine that one or two of the breakers feed the sub panel, so eventually those light should go off.

That’s what I thought too. Looks like I’ll be calling an electrician. The panel is fairly new and “conveniently” the labels were left blank so that I could label them myself. I’ve been labeling as I do work around the house, but I haven’t yet made a dedicated effort to go through and figure them all out.

How about consulting your pre-sale house inspection report? There should be a complete electrical inspection that would include any sub panel and where it's located.

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My name is DP, and I approve this message.

Do all the breakers affect something somewhere? If you have one that does nothing, it may be bad. If they all work, then everything seems to point to the pots being wired in before the breakers. Can you see if there is a stray wire attached in the panel before the breaker. Don't overlook the 220 breakers as they can be two 120's and can be wired separately.

But I'd be calling an electrician to be safe.

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BernDog
If I flip the main panel breaker, they go off.

Sub Panel should be labeled in main panel and it will be a 240 double phase breaker.

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Staunton, Virginia

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testcase
It could have been a prior homeowner / tenant's DIY "upgrade" where the person simply spliced said cans into whatever wire they could get easy access to. Have you tried flipping switches in adjoining rooms / areas? That's where I would start looking. There are circuit tracing tools available.

Yep, in a kitchen many times you'll find someone has wired a new OTR microwave into a light circuit.

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Bill in NC

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testcase
It could have been a prior homeowner / tenant's DIY "upgrade" where the person simply spliced said cans into whatever wire they could get easy access to. Have you tried flipping switches in adjoining rooms / areas? That's where I would start looking. There are circuit tracing tools available.

Yep, in a kitchen many times you'll find someone has wired a new OTR microwave into a light circuit.

Oh man. In my house the kitchen light, half the kitchen outlets, the disposal AND the microwave are on the same circuit, along with the attic light and gable fans, a light and ceiling fan in another room, and half the lights in the basement! At least the refrigerator is on a different circuit.

The strangest thing here is that he flipped all the breakers, and the lights didn't go off.

Either he has a defective breaker that failed in the close position, or he has a subpanel that is wired directly to the main lines without a breaker.

I really hope the lights are not connected to the main line without a breaker.

I’ve never heard of a breaker that fails in the “on” position, but if that’s possible, it might explain it. I don’t know if I have a breaker that doesn’t turn anything off or not. So far I’ve been at the stage of finding the breaker that controls what I want to work on, rather than finding what each breaker does.

Might just have to go through and get all the labeling done. Maybe I’ll turn something up.

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DP
How about consulting your pre-sale house inspection report? There should be a complete electrical inspection that would include any sub panel and where it's located.

Home inspection? In this market? Ha!

Seriously, that would have been nice, but we needed to make a move, and we needed to get it done before rates went up too much. Got in at 4.25%. It would have been months longer (if at all) before we would have found another place that checked our boxes. We still watch the listings, and nothing else has come on the market since that we could have considered. We had to be THE offer on this one.

I'm pretty sure you missed one.

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BernDog
So, I have four recessed can lights in my living room ceiling in the house we just bought over the summer. I’d like to put them on a dimmer. They are apparently not controlled by any breaker in the main panel. I’ve switched off every. single. one. and the lights stay on. If I flip the main panel breaker, they go off.

DId you switch off all of the breakers at the same time, or did you try one at a time.

If it was one at a time, maybe there's a weird junction box someplace where two different circuits run through and someone wired them together. You would need to flip both breakers off to kill power to those two circuits in that case.

This can be helpful. There are other makes which may be cheaper - [www.amazon.com]

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