Okay, here's one for you. I bought some screws in various lengths to replace the ones to connect my motorcycle battery. Seemed simple enough. As you'll see in the picture below, they have a split lock washer and another washer on there. I'd like to keep the split washer, but I'd like to remove the flat one. But the dang thing won't come of. Mind you, it spins freely, and it will move up the shaft toward the screw head, but not back toward the end.

Bottom line is yeah, I could live with it as is, but now it's a matter of why can't I get the damn thing off? It got on there somehow. Is there some trick to it? I don't want to resort to a dremel or the like to cut it off. So I figured I'd ask the masterminds here if they've ever seen such a thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2022 07:46PM by wurm.

Its possible that it is a "captive" washer designed to stay on the bolt so that it doesn't cause trouble slipping off.

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TheTominator
Its possible that it is a "captive" washer designed to stay on the bolt so that it doesn't cause trouble slipping off.

Yep... slammed together during manufacturing. Threads are wider.

+1 captive washer

Okay then, so that answers that. At least i know it's futile to try and remove it. Thanks.

Maybe not futile. Clamp some vice grips on it and exert pressure to pull the bolt and washer apart while unscrewing the bolt. Might need to apply quite a bit of pressure.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

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davester
Maybe not futile. Clamp some vice grips on it and exert pressure to pull the bolt and washer apart while unscrewing the bolt. Might need to apply quite a bit of pressure.

How are they manufactured? Do the washers go on before the threads are cut and the threads increase the diameter of the shaft?

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GGD

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davester
Maybe not futile. Clamp some vice grips on it and exert pressure to pull the bolt and washer apart while unscrewing the bolt. Might need to apply quite a bit of pressure.

How are they manufactured? Do the washers go on before the threads are cut and the threads increase the diameter of the shaft?

Press fit the washer over the bolt into the valley cut below the head. The threads are already there.

When cutting threads, you always start with a wider rod, then cut it with a die. Or screw machine..

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cbelt3

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GGD

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davester
Maybe not futile. Clamp some vice grips on it and exert pressure to pull the bolt and washer apart while unscrewing the bolt. Might need to apply quite a bit of pressure.

How are they manufactured? Do the washers go on before the threads are cut and the threads increase the diameter of the shaft?

Press fit the washer over the bolt into the valley cut below the head. The threads are already there.

When cutting threads, you always start with a wider rod, then cut it with a die. Or screw machine..

Or in this case it is likely the threads were formed, not cut. Forming threads starts with a rod that is smaller in diameter than the finished threads. It is more common in manufacturing than cutting threads on screws and bolts.

Just did this with one I have:

Clamp head in vise (the bolt, not yours) and then get vise grips or channel locks around washer. Using a large flat screwdriver or similar piece of metal, exert pressure on washer as you wind the pliers.

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Hurts like a bastid...

I thought this was about a washing machine crammed into a corner then blocked in by crap and then it broke...

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Something different...

Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.

"Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime."- Lavrentiy Beria

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DP
I thought this was about a washing machine crammed into a corner then blocked in by crap and then it broke...

I was also wondering why/how you couldn’t get your washing machine to move. Lol

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Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

If it were me, I’d want the flat washer so that the wire lug is flattened against the terminal (more contact area = more current gets through easier.) Or perhaps it just lets the bolt tighten without turning the wire lug, which will tend to make the connection less tight. Again, less current flow. Got a kick starter? Babes love a man with a kick start bike.

But if it’s somehow a clearance issue just take that bolt to the hardware store and buy replacements without captive washers. There should be a sizing jig that verifies thread pitch etc.

Thanks for all the follow-ups. As I said, it's not critical enough to lose sleep over, but I may well try mrbigstuff's idea.

deckeda, my first thought was the local hardware stores, but the closest I could find there were a couple of M6 x 12mm phillips head screws. Probably fine, but I really wanted the hex head with a Phillips. Googling for that brought me to Amazon, which is where I found a ton of them. It never occurred to me to just search for motorcycle battery terminal screws. Duh. (Haven't had a bike with a kick start since the 70s, though sometimes I wish it were there as a backup.)

As for just keeping the captive washer on there, I will probably end up doing that. I'm not sure yet how it will impact clearance issues in the battery case, which is why I bought assorted lengths.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2022 08:09AM by wurm.

I'm not sure yet how it will impact clearance issues in the battery case


This is the only reason I'd consider removing the washer.

The diameter of the flat washer, totally unnecessary for this application, might interfere if it exceeds the distance between the terminal and the case, but given your posted example that doesn't seem very likely.

I only use a split washer, for the obvious reason.

Something I do is take a piece short of thinner nylon zip-tie, bend it in a U, then insert it in the battery terminal under the nut.

This makes the nut captive in the terminal, and eliminates a ton of fiddling when assembling the supplied short screw and nut in the terminal.

A short piece of tubing will also work.

It's not needed, obviously, if a longer screw is swapped in, but I don't do that unless I've attached additional leads to the terminals.

---

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I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Funny you mention the tubing. I've seen that mentioned, as well as foam earplugs, zip ties, a spot of super glue, etc. all to hold the damn nut in place when reconnecting.

BUT...the new (Motobatt) battery I bought has threaded brackets, eliminating the need for the nut on the other side of the bracket to secure it. One of the reasons I chose that battery is for that very reason, as the placement of the battery on the bike is a PITA, being under the frame. There's barely room to get a screwdriver and/or socket in there to access the screw, let alone a finger to maneuver a nut.

the new (Motobatt) battery I bought has threaded brackets, eliminating the need for the nut on the other side of the bracket to secure it


Huh.

I know Motobatt is a popular brand, but didn't know about that detail.

Good to know.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

And if you're interested, taken a step further I found this. [www.youtube.com]. I'm having a hard time justifying spending $19 for a couple of pieces of brass, but I may put it on my Christmas list as the family is always looking for something to get me.

Well, the factory terminals do seem kind of low-bid.

If the Motobatt gives a good ROI then the blocks can be transferred to the next MB.

The ability to bolt on additional leads without piling on more and more on the top of the terminal is a plus.

One can add a few things without going to the trouble of adding a fuse block, as long as On/Off with the ignition isn't required.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2022 01:15AM by RAMd®d.

Just to reiterate in proper MRF lingo, "it's a feature, not a bug....."


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