Am in the market for my first EV as my younger son will soon get his license and so he and his older brother will share my car and I will get a new one

Only considering SUVs and though at first I was considering plug-in hybrids and EVs, I think I just want to go full on EV from here on out

Wasn't a big fan of Teslas for the longest time (initially nothing to do with Musk but now maybe a little to do with him, but must.separate.the.art.from.the.artist...)

Anyway the huge Tesla price drop got me very interested and I test drove the model Y a couple of days ago - pretty amazing vehicle

Also considering the Audi Q4 etron, hopefully will check it out this weekend

Anyway, if you have real world experiences with any of these or other EVs, please let me know what to look for, pros/cons, etc.

Thanks

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My music blog: [www.auditorymusings.net]


The Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs, Colorado

Just this morning I watched the video that Doug DeMuro did on the Chevy blazer

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Hurts like a bastid...

Ok, point of order, is an eV an all-electric, hybrid, plugging-in hybrid, or any of the preceding.

Asking for a friend.

For me from a practical standpoint, I think the RAV4 would be my choice, but I'm not sure I could defend my choice in court.

So I made it about me — my work is done.

That's all I got.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

I'm looking at all electric

Cadillac Lyric. I read on the forum they’ve made 50 so far. I’m sure they have spent more on advertising the vehicle than they have spent on producing it.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

The elder is driving age now? (run for your lives ) I guess I haven't been following the pics close enough.

Not sure about the current Audi etron. A whole lot of the original model got bought back as lemons after the dealers could not fix the problems.

The Volkswagen ID.4 seems to be okay even though it's the same company as Audi. Verify the model you want has all the desirable features, Carplay, wireless charging, keyless access, etc.

---

In tha 360. MRF User Map

Ask yourself - which car is most appropriate for a new drivers first fender bender?

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Quote
mattkime
Ask yourself - which car is most appropriate for a new drivers first fender bender?

I think he's already decided on that one, his old car.

he and his older brother will share my car and I will get a new one

These two are getting the best press:

[www.hyundaiusa.com]
[www.kia.com]

Quote
GGD

Quote
mattkime
Ask yourself - which car is most appropriate for a new drivers first fender bender?

I think he's already decided on that one, his old car.

he and his older brother will share my car and I will get a new one

oooph, there's my reading comprehension fail for the day.

Quote
anonymouse1
These two are getting the best press:

[www.hyundaiusa.com]
[www.kia.com]

Yeah there's an Ioniq 5 in the parking garage at work today - I'm not sure how these manufacturers get away referring to these as 'SUVs' though

How many road trips do you take a year? If you get anything other than a Tesla (and hence don’t have access to their charging network) it can be a pain in the arse. But of course you can just rent a car in those instances (assuming you won’t have access to your old car or another ICE vehicle in the household).

Check what have the revised fed rebate, that can make a BIG difference.
Personally, I'd love to replace my wife's Crosstrek with either Subaru's new EV,
or better yet, in my mind the Hyundai Ioniq 5. Problem is, Hyundai is not getting the
tax break due to where it's made, and the price skyrockets to about $10,000 to $12,000
more than a Bolt EUV, which is nice enough and will fit the needs, but my wife really wants
the AWD as she drives to work in bad weather.

Dave

---

Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

Many have eaten here....

Few have died

Yeah charging network is definitely a concern, though our road trips are few and far between and when they do happen they would really only be Houston to San Antonio or Austin, or rarely Houston to Dallas

All those trips would be under 300 miles easily

I think Tesla did that price cut for several reasons...stock in a free fall but also to get some models below the limit in order to qualify for the tax rebates

The Model Y base price is now something like 52,900 which is below the 55,000 limit for the rebate

Quote
Carnos Jax
How many road trips do you take a year? If you get anything other than a Tesla (and hence don’t have access to their charging network) it can be a pain in the arse. But of course you can just rent a car in those instances (assuming you won’t have access to your old car or another ICE vehicle in the household).

Having done several road trips in friends' Teslas and witnessed the pain of another friend's torturous road trip in a Chevy Volt, this is an enormous issue. Until either Tesla's network is opened up to other manufacturers, or non-Tesla networks improve substantially from where they're at now, I would not buy a non-Tesla if I expected to use it for any long distance driving. Also, the Model X and Model Y are pretty sweet vehicles. Non-Tesla SUVs are only useful as run around town vehicles until charging catches up with vehicle technology. It's really a shame that the non-Tesla makes are ignoring the need for charging infrastructure because there are some nice vehicles out there (i.e. the Ford Mustang Mach-E, the Kias, the Volvos, etc).

Quote
pinks
All those trips would be under 300 miles easily.

So those would require that you find a working high amperage chargers halfway between and at the destination every time. Not a problem with Tesla. Oftentimes a massive problem with the often poorly maintained non-Tesla networks.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2023 03:42PM by davester.

I'm in Texas which is a big oil and gas state so Tesla has taken a very long time to make inroads here (as compared to California, for example) b/c of the oil / gas lobby

However, from what I've heard, they're definitely investing in building out their charging network here though it is nowhere near what my BIL tells me they have in Cali

But, point well taken about both the charging network issue and the Model Y being a sweet car!

The driving range on electric cars is way off. There are many reports of people not getting 200 miles of range in the winter, despite the manufacturers claims of 250-350 miles. In a big state like Texas, I think this will be an issue.

I think a plug in hybrid will work much better, such as a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid Prime.

Quote
pinkoos
Yeah charging network is definitely a concern, though our road trips are few and far between and when they do happen they would really only be Houston to San Antonio or Austin, or rarely Houston to Dallas

All those trips would be under 300 miles easily

I think Tesla did that price cut for several reasons...stock in a free fall but also to get some models below the limit in order to qualify for the tax rebates

The Model Y base price is now something like 52,900 which is below the 55,000 limit for the rebate

Not for stock being in free fall (remember it was going up when cuts were announced). The cuts were to return prices to pre-pandemic levels. Tesla increased prices during this period to prevent excessive wait times, which had grown anywhere from several months to a year. As wait times came back down, naturally Tesla went back to more normal prices (which are still higher than pre-pandemic I believe, though cheaper for consumers due to the tax breaks). Remember, Tesla’s goal is to accelerate the world to sustainable energy, and it isn’t going to do that by selling expensive cars.

On a different note, I wouldn’t have any problem getting a non-Tesla EV, so long as its reliability and maintenance costs were on par. I would just rent an ICE vehicle when I had to for road trips (since like you they’d be few and far between).

Quote
Speedy
Cadillac Lyric. I read on the forum they’ve made 50 so far. I’m sure they have spent more on advertising the vehicle than they have spent on producing it.

Less than 50...but who's counting.

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**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Why would a roadtrip in a Volt be torturous? Just fill up at a gas station and go. If you meant 'Bolt' then, yes, that would be torture. Those are the cheapest EVs in the US, but also the the slowest charging.

Quote
davester

Quote
Carnos Jax
How many road trips do you take a year? If you get anything other than a Tesla (and hence don’t have access to their charging network) it can be a pain in the arse. But of course you can just rent a car in those instances (assuming you won’t have access to your old car or another ICE vehicle in the household).

Having done several road trips in friends' Teslas and witnessed the pain of another friend's torturous road trip in a Chevy Volt, this is an enormous issue. Until either Tesla's network is opened up to other manufacturers, or non-Tesla networks improve substantially from where they're at now, I would not buy a non-Tesla if I expected to use it for any long distance driving. Also, the Model X and Model Y are pretty sweet vehicles. Non-Tesla SUVs are only useful as run around town vehicles until charging catches up with vehicle technology. It's really a shame that the non-Tesla makes are ignoring the need for charging infrastructure because there are some nice vehicles out there (i.e. the Ford Mustang Mach-E, the Kias, the Volvos, etc).

Quote
pinks
All those trips would be under 300 miles easily.

So those would require that you find a working high amperage chargers halfway between and at the destination every time. Not a problem with Tesla. Oftentimes a massive problem with the often poorly maintained non-Tesla networks.

---

**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

Quote
Forrest
The driving range on electric cars is way off. There are many reports of people not getting 200 miles of range in the winter, despite the manufacturers claims of 250-350 miles. In a big state like Texas, I think this will be an issue.

Counterpoint- Texas doesn’t have winter.

Quote
mattkime
Counterpoint- Texas doesn’t have electricity in the winter.

Fixed

[en.wikipedia.org]

None. I bought a gas SUV a year ago because of the lack of viable EV SUV options. There's some CUVs and lots of plump compact cars masquerading as SUVs, but they all lack one or more of the following:

Cargo capacity
Clearance
Range
Availability

I'm hoping to hold onto my gas SUV for three years and that the EV market produces some capable SUVs at a reasonable price. (I might pay 50% more for EV, but not double or more.)

---

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My wife loves her Model Y. It's the first car to have earned a name in our household. I'm convinced if it's a choice between her beloved Model Y and her current husband, I will be out in the cold (which is serious as we are in Minnesota!)

If you plan to drive anywhere outside the immediate area, the Tesla SuperCharger network is the only current viable option for a full EV.

I know other EVs look and drive great. But the killer feature of the Tesla's is the SuperCharger network. The second is that they really do properly implement OTA updates. Our Model Y is a BETTER car than we purchased 2+ years ago.

Quote
sekker
The second is that they really do properly implement OTA updates. Our Model Y is a BETTER car than we purchased 2+ years ago.

That's because Tesla is every bit a software company as it is a hardware one, something legacy auto is not (not even close). You're not going to pay for map upgrades or any of that stupid sh|t that the other OEMs do.

Quote
Forrest
The driving range on electric cars is way off. There are many reports of people not getting 200 miles of range in the winter, despite the manufacturers claims of 250-350 miles. In a big state like Texas, I think this will be an issue. .

Are the temperature fluctuations there big enough to affect that much in winter? As far as the range goes,
Mine has no problem getting 20% higher than EPA EV miles in summer, and gets about 20% below EPA in the winter, Massachusetts, by the way.
If pinkoos traveled regularly in cold weather, maybe, but...Not thinking the concern is warranted.
Just my 2 cents.

Plus, not spending $50-$60-$70 to fill your gas tank is pretty sweet, and easy to get used to.

Dave

---

Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

Many have eaten here....

Few have died



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2023 06:31PM by DinerDave.

It's tough to say without a few more specifics about your needs:

AWD a true necessity?
How often do you take trips of more than 200 miles?
Where in the country are you located and what does the charging infrastructure look like?

Most of you know here I am the cheerleader for the Bolt EV. Even though the rate of charging is slower than most, the miles gained per minute charged is better than many as the Bolt is very efficient.
If you don't do a lot of traveling beyond 200 miles, then charging infrastructure is not as important. Surveys say that most people can get by just fine on 110v charging at home, which can recover 30-60 miles per day.

The slightly larger Bolt EUV may be a good choice for you if you do not need AWD. It fully qualifies for the 7500 tax rebate until the end of March if you can find one. After that the rebate gets cut in half.

If you need AWD, the Hyundai Ioniq 5 or the KIA EV6 are the gold standard for people that refuse to support Musk. The problem is finding one. More important than that they dont qualify for the tax rebate is the general popularity making them impossible to find. Dealers in CA and NV are typically adding $5-7k dealer markup to the MSRP.

The Subaru Solterra and sister Toyota BZ4 generally get poor reviews by EV critics, no matter how good their other cars may be.

Myself...we will hang on with our Bolt EV and use our Crosstrek when weather demands AWD until we find a Ioniq at MSRP or the Chevy Equinox EV arrives in 2024.

---

“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA

Bumped into the guy who owns the Ioniq 5 at work - he just got it 4 days ago and loves it

He lives in central Houston and we work in the northwest corner way outside the city and he hasn't had to charge it yet and it was at about 44%

He bought the top of the line, had to wait and paid $58K for it

Quote
Forrest
The driving range on electric cars is way off. There are many reports of people not getting 200 miles of range in the winter, despite the manufacturers claims of 250-350 miles. In a big state like Texas, I think this will be an issue.

I think a plug in hybrid will work much better, such as a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid Prime.

Texas is a pretty dense state in the Dallas-Houston-SanAntonio-Austin Triangle, will a giant back yard that is relatively empty (The rest of Texas). For the OP use, 200-300 miles is useful range

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San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

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"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

Quote
GGD

Quote
mattkime
Counterpoint- Texas doesn’t have electricity in the winter.

Fixed

[en.wikipedia.org]

I stand corrected, Texas had winter once.

Lol

Quote
ztirffritz
Why would a roadtrip in a Volt be torturous? Just fill up at a gas station and go. If you meant 'Bolt' then, yes, that would be torture. Those are the cheapest EVs in the US, but also the the slowest charging.

Yes, I meant Bolt.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Quote
pinkoos
Bumped into the guy who owns the Ioniq 5 at work - he just got it 4 days ago and loves it

He lives in central Houston and we work in the northwest corner way outside the city and he hasn't had to charge it yet and it was at about 44%

He bought the top of the line, had to wait and paid $58K for it

I think the Ioniq5 looks dope.

Quote
DinerDave

Quote
Forrest
The driving range on electric cars is way off. There are many reports of people not getting 200 miles of range in the winter, despite the manufacturers claims of 250-350 miles. In a big state like Texas, I think this will be an issue. .

Are the temperature fluctuations there big enough to affect that much in winter? As far as the range goes,
Mine has no problem getting 20% higher than EPA EV miles in summer, and gets about 20% below EPA in the winter, Massachusetts, by the way.
If pinkoos traveled regularly in cold weather, maybe, but...Not thinking the concern is warranted.
Just my 2 cents.

Plus, not spending $50-$60-$70 to fill your gas tank is pretty sweet, and easy to get used to.

Dave

I love not having to go to a gas station to refuel for my daily commutes.

Quote
sekker

Quote
DinerDave

Plus, not spending $50-$60-$70 to fill your gas tank is pretty sweet, and easy to get used to.

I love not having to go to a gas station to refuel for my daily commutes.

This is something most ICE drivers haven't grasped yet. For most/many of your average middle class families, with 2 ICE cars....someone (usually it's one person) will spend at the minimum 45 minutes to an hour each week filling the cars (5 minutes fumbling for keys, 5-10 mins to a gas station, 5 minutes filling, and 5-10 minutes back)...all this times 2).

somewhat related, cold weather start.

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!#$@@$#!

never do yesterday or today what you can put off til tomorrow or next year.

Quote
Fritz
somewhat related, cold weather start.

Sounds like that guy doesn't want to paint pics of EVs.

Quote
mattkime
Sounds like that guy doesn't want to paint pics of EVs.

he is old and Californian.

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!#$@@$#!

never do yesterday or today what you can put off til tomorrow or next year.

Quote
mattkime

Quote
GGD

Quote
mattkime
Ask yourself - which car is most appropriate for a new drivers first fender bender?

I think he's already decided on that one, his old car.

he and his older brother will share my car and I will get a new one

oooph, there's my reading comprehension fail for the day.

But your teenager comprehension was spot on. The second kid will be driving in the blink of an eye, and then any concept of "my car" and "their car" is out the window. Sure, pinkooss will have rules, but he'll also have those days where he dashes out the door to get somewhere only to realize that he'll be riding his bike.

Quote
mattkime

Quote
Fritz
somewhat related, cold weather start.

Sounds like that guy doesn't want to paint pics of EVs.

So they went on their trip in the Ford but found as soon as they turned the heater on, their estimated range dropped.

Yeah. Stopped reading there.

"We decided to floor the Mustang GT at every chance and found our mileage dropping."

Follow-up:

Took delivery of a 2023 Model Y yesterday

Love it so far, but still learning the ins and outs

Model Y All-Wheel Drive
Midnight Silver Metallic Paint
19’’ Gemini Wheels Included
All Black Premium Interior Included
Five Seat Interior Included
Autopilot Included

This model is off their 'secret menu' - it has a shorter range of 279 miles instead of the long range model on their website that has a 330 mile range (or the performance model that has a 303 mile range)

You can't build this model (at least not yet) - apparently if you're in a state where you can actually go to a Tesla store and order a car, they will tell you about this model if you ask them about it (I'm in Texas so that would be a no go)

It cost $2000 less than the base long range model so along with the price cut that Elon instituted a few weeks ago, this was a HUGE savings

I was able to grab it b/c I searched online on how to get notified as soon as new models hit Tesla's pre-existing inventory website and came across a Discord server that does exactly this

I got the notification Sunday night, quickly read up about this b/c I hadn't even seen or heard about this configuration before and then quickly paid the $250 order fee (via Apple Pay) to grab it

It was ready for me to pick up Wednesday afternoon, but the temporary tags hadn't come in yet so they told me to come Thursday morning instead

More info here: [www.caranddriver.com]

[www.torquenews.com]