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Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: January 29, 2023 10:55AM
[www.cnn.com]

I find CR less reliable than in decades past. Still, this is interesting.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 10:58AM
Yes, consumer reports would rank them last. But practically they’re the best. No other system can come close to what Tesla can do. That’s not to say Tesla is perfect. They all have a ways to go, but Tesla is much further ahead than the rest. The article, like others written before, is misleading at best, if not outright bs. They hide behind weasel words or other arbitrary parameters to ‘qualify’ their statements. But again that’s not surprising coming from consumer reports. Sadly, they seem to not be consistent with the reliability of their writings.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 11:12AM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: gadje
Date: January 29, 2023 11:08AM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Yes, consumer reports would rank them last. But practically they’re the best. No other system can come close to what Tesla can do. That’s not to say Tesla is perfect. They all have a ways to go, but the rest are much further behind.

Take a ride in a Waymo, Cruize, Aurora, etc and that may change your opinion.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: gadje
Date: January 29, 2023 11:12AM
Also subject is miss-leading.

Vehicles with ADAS are not self-driving cars. (No self-driving cars are yet on the market.)
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 11:13AM
Quote
gadje
Quote
Carnos Jax
Yes, consumer reports would rank them last. But practically they’re the best. No other system can come close to what Tesla can do. That’s not to say Tesla is perfect. They all have a ways to go, but the rest are much further behind.

Take a ride in a Waymo, Cruize, Aurora, etc and that may change your opinion.

Nope, I’ve seen plenty of first hand reports and videos to know they’re far behind. None of them seem to perform as well in a wide range of environments/cities like the Tesla system does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 11:15AM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 11:36AM
BTW: Mercedes has the first level 3 automated pilot system available in the United States.

(In Nevada, where the laws are very loose on the matter... And technically, they aren't selling it yet, but it's "approved" and may be just weeks away.)

Ahead of everyone else, including Tesla.

But only up to 40MPH.

[www.theverge.com]

Unlike Tesla, their system checks that the driver is paying attention to the road, and uses LIDAR to avoid obstacles instead of aiming for them.



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: davester
Date: January 29, 2023 11:58AM
Here's the link to the actual article rather than the article about the article: [www.consumerreports.org] . I'm not sure whether it's behind a paywall or not.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 12:23PM
Quote
Tiangou
BTW: Mercedes has the first level 3 automated pilot system available in the United States.

(In Nevada, where the laws are very loose on the matter... And technically, they aren't selling it yet, but it's "approved" and may be just weeks away.)

Ahead of everyone else, including Tesla.

But only up to 40MPH.

[www.theverge.com].

This has been making the rounds on the internet lately, but it is both complete horseshit and much ado about nothing. Mercedes 'Level 3' system works only at speeds less than 40 mph (do I understand that correctly?) and even then only on very limited and specific portions of our interstate highway system.

I assume any of the other ADAS can do this as well (Tesla's certainly can). In fact any monkey can get this certification the way Mercedes did. Most don't bother because they're going for the harder problem of general self driving everywhere. Tesla's 'Level 2" works generally well everywhere, and is a much more capable system.



Quote
Tiangou
Unlike Tesla, their system checks that the driver is paying attention to the road, and uses LIDAR to avoid obstacles instead of aiming for them.

This is FUD.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: gadje
Date: January 29, 2023 12:26PM
Tesla did not stop for a child, Volvo did. Volvo uses a Lidar.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 12:41PM
Quote
gadje
Tesla did not stop for a child, Volvo did. Volvo uses a Lidar.

While I respect your opinion on these types of matters, this particular reference is more FUD that has been running around on the internet.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 01:10PM
The legacy self driving industry is butt hurt by Tesla's greater progress in this arena using a camera only system. It makes them look bad since they declared cameras were insufficient a long time ago, and required lidar (as well as other sensors like radar or ultrasonics).

There's nothing magical about lidar, it is only an image sensor. It forms a 3D point cloud. IOW, lidar is a 3D sensor, unlike cameras, which are only 2D. Camera only systems rely on software to process the 2D image into 3D (much like animals do it), whereas lidar alleviates the software from this responsibility.

Yet despite all these additional sensors (and therefore the software problem being simpler) the legacy guys are still a far cry from Tesla when it comes to self driving. Tesla makes them look bad and they don't like it.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 29, 2023 01:32PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
gadje
Quote
Carnos Jax
Yes, consumer reports would rank them last. But practically they’re the best. No other system can come close to what Tesla can do. That’s not to say Tesla is perfect. They all have a ways to go, but the rest are much further behind.

Take a ride in a Waymo, Cruize, Aurora, etc and that may change your opinion.

Nope, I’ve seen plenty of first hand reports and videos to know they’re far behind. None of them seem to perform as well in a wide range of environments/cities like the Tesla system does.

I used the Cruise App to take a ride in San Francisco. It went well. I felt safer in that car than I do in an Uber/Lyft. It cost me $11 bucks. An actual human interacted with me for the duration. When it first pulled up, it startled a small pack of young folk. Their initial reaction was to bang on the car. When I told them it was there for me they backed down.

The killer feature. The best part? Didn't have to pay anybody a tip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 01:33PM by vision63.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: gadje
Date: January 29, 2023 01:47PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
The legacy self driving industry is butt hurt by Tesla's greater progress in this arena using a camera only system. It makes them look bad since they declared cameras were insufficient a long time ago, and required lidar (as well as other sensors like radar or ultrasonics).

There's nothing magical about lidar, it is only an image sensor. It forms a 3D point cloud. IOW, lidar is a 3D sensor, unlike cameras, which are only 2D. Camera only systems rely on software to process the 2D image into 3D (much like animals do it), whereas lidar alleviates the software from this responsibility.

Yet despite all these additional sensors (and therefore the software problem being simpler) the legacy guys are still a far cry from Tesla when it comes to self driving. Tesla makes them look bad and they don't like it.

wrong, wrong and again wrong.

You do not understand the limitations of cameras, lack of dynamic range for example.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 01:53PM
Quote
gadje
wrong, wrong and again wrong.

You do not understand the limitations of cameras, lack of dynamic range for example.

Tell that to Tesla. Why does their self driving system seem to perform better than anyone else’s? I’m sure cameras have their limitations, but Tesla seems to overcome that in software.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 02:10PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
gadje
Tesla did not stop for a child, Volvo did. Volvo uses a Lidar.

While I respect your opinion on these types of matters, this particular reference is more FUD that has been running around on the internet.



It’s 2022, and Teslas still aren’t stopping for children.

...The black car on the right that does stop for the dummy child is equipped with LiDAR from @luminartech
—a technology Tesla still refuses to use in its production vehicles—though Tesla does use LiDAR to test how far off the distances its cameras estimate are from actual.



The Argument Over Whether Tesla FSD Will Run Over A Child Or Dummy Child Misses The Point

This issue is very complex, and as is not too unusual, nobody gets it exactly right. The FSD system, though called a beta, is more accurately called a prototype. Self-driving prototypes (and betas) do need large amounts of testing on the road in the view of most developers, and every team does this, with human “safety drivers” monitoring the system and regularly intervening when it makes mistakes to prevent incidents. Tesla is unusual in that it is allowing ordinary customers to engage in this testing, while all other companies have employees, with some level of training do this task, and commonly have 2 employees per vehicle.

Prototypes, by their nature, fail, including on important things like stopping for pedestrians in the road...




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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: jonny
Date: January 29, 2023 02:35PM
If these systems are failing the tests, and/or killing people, they should not be on the road. Full stop.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 02:46PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
gadje
Tesla did not stop for a child, Volvo did. Volvo uses a Lidar.

While I respect your opinion on these types of matters, this particular reference is more FUD that has been running around on the internet.



It’s 2022, and Teslas still aren’t stopping for children.

...The black car on the right that does stop for the dummy child is equipped with LiDAR from @luminartech
—a technology Tesla still refuses to use in its production vehicles—though Tesla does use LiDAR to test how far off the distances its cameras estimate are from actual.



The Argument Over Whether Tesla FSD Will Run Over A Child Or Dummy Child Misses The Point

This issue is very complex, and as is not too unusual, nobody gets it exactly right. The FSD system, though called a beta, is more accurately called a prototype. Self-driving prototypes (and betas) do need large amounts of testing on the road in the view of most developers, and every team does this, with human “safety drivers” monitoring the system and regularly intervening when it makes mistakes to prevent incidents. Tesla is unusual in that it is allowing ordinary customers to engage in this testing, while all other companies have employees, with some level of training do this task, and commonly have 2 employees per vehicle.

Prototypes, by their nature, fail, including on important things like stopping for pedestrians in the road...

FUD, staged fake video by an outfit/guy who previously faked a Tesla video. He owns a company that provides competing software to legacy car makers. Come on man, don't fall for this stuff without a little critical research.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 02:54PM
If anyone cares to read up on these staged videos:

[www.reddit.com]

[www.reddit.com]
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 03:14PM
To be sure, there are valid arguments to be had on the subject of autonomous vehicles. But filling that space with FUD doesn't serve what should be a valuable discussion.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: gadje
Date: January 29, 2023 03:59PM
Tesla still claim this is Full Self-Driving Capability which is a lie.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 04:29PM
I can see how you might feel that way...can't say I blame you either. But on the other hand most (though not all) customers don't have a problem with it, and I can see their point as well. In the end most of them don't really care so long as Tesla keeps improving it and closing the gap. Seems the only ones who have a problem are non-Tesla owners.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: TheTominator
Date: January 29, 2023 04:51PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
To be sure, there are valid arguments to be had on the subject of autonomous vehicles. But filling that space with FUD doesn't serve what should be a valuable discussion.

Dispelling FUD is a job for the Telsla Public Relations Department.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 04:52PM by TheTominator.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: davester
Date: January 29, 2023 05:08PM
Quote
gadje
Tesla still claim this is Full Self-Driving Capability which is a lie.

No they don't. What they refer to as FSD is an optional system that Consumer Reports did not test so it is outside the scope of this thread. CR tested Tesla's standard "Autopilot" system. Also, Tesla acknowledges that the FSD option is not capable of full self driving now but they expect it to become operational at some point in the future. You can argue with their optimistic projections (i.e. hype) regarding when that will be, but your statement that they are claiming full self driving capability now is incorrect. -



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 05:09PM by davester.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 05:10PM
Quote
TheTominator
Quote
Carnos Jax
To be sure, there are valid arguments to be had on the subject of autonomous vehicles. But filling that space with FUD doesn't serve what should be a valuable discussion.

Dispelling FUD is a job for the Telsla Public Relations Department.

No, it isn't. Tesla doesn't have a public relations department. It doesn't need one. It lays all its successes and failures out in the court of public opinion to see. Tesla doesn't go to the lengths that traditional companies do to hide or otherwise obscure information (though they're not as open as a virgin on prom night either). Anyone who cares to, can find out enough on Tesla's activities to call bs or not. This is one reason why it was easy for many early investors to do research on Tesla. As a result there are a lot of people scrutinizing Tesla (and to call out lies from third parties when they see it).
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 05:14PM
^^^This is also why Tesla doesn't really sue anyone for FUD. Instead of a court of law, they rely on the court of public opinion. Anywhere you see FUD on Tesla come up, someone is always proving it false. Just look at what happened in this thread for example.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: gadje
Date: January 29, 2023 05:19PM
Quote
davester
Quote
gadje
Tesla still claim this is Full Self-Driving Capability which is a lie.

No they don't. What they refer to as FSD is an optional system that Consumer Reports did not test so it is outside the scope of this thread. CR tested Tesla's standard "Autopilot" system. Also, Tesla acknowledges that the FSD option is not capable of full self driving now but they expect it to become operational at some point in the future. You can argue with their optimistic projections (i.e. hype) regarding when that will be, but your statement that they are claiming full self driving capability now is incorrect. -

Then I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing this out.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 06:22PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
^^^This is also why Tesla doesn't really sue anyone for FUD. Instead of a court of law, they rely on the court of public opinion. Anywhere you see FUD on Tesla come up, someone is always proving it false. Just look at what happened in this thread for example.

Calling something "FUD" is not disproving it.



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 06:37PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Carnos Jax
^^^This is also why Tesla doesn't really sue anyone for FUD. Instead of a court of law, they rely on the court of public opinion. Anywhere you see FUD on Tesla come up, someone is always proving it false. Just look at what happened in this thread for example.

Calling something "FUD" is not disproving it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought I did. What specifically are you referring to if I didn't?
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 07:09PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Carnos Jax
^^^This is also why Tesla doesn't really sue anyone for FUD. Instead of a court of law, they rely on the court of public opinion. Anywhere you see FUD on Tesla come up, someone is always proving it false. Just look at what happened in this thread for example.

Calling something "FUD" is not disproving it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought I did. What specifically are you referring to if I didn't?

Calling something "FUD" is not disproving it.



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 07:13PM
I don't get it man, where am I calling something "FUD" and not proving it?
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 07:21PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
I don't get it man, where am I calling something "FUD" and not proving it?

FUD, staged fake video by an outfit/guy who previously faked a Tesla video. He owns a company that provides competing software to legacy car makers. Come on man, don't fall for this stuff without a little critical research.

Not one single citation to a reliable source.

Just unsupported allegations.



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 07:37PM
Did you not see the follow up post from me disproving it?

Quote
Carnos Jax
If anyone cares to read up on these staged videos:

[www.reddit.com]

[www.reddit.com]
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: PeterW
Date: January 29, 2023 08:00PM
If a Tesla driver/occupant hits something while the car is in Autopilot, will insurance pay for the “accident”?
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: davester
Date: January 29, 2023 08:48PM
Quote
PeterW
If a Tesla driver/occupant hits something while the car is in Autopilot, will insurance pay for the “accident”?

If the driver has liability insurance then the answer is yes, though he/she is still responsible for the accident, just the same as the pilot of a plane or captain of a ship with autopilot engaged is not absolved of responsibility if their vehicle hits something.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 09:09PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Did you not see the follow up post from me disproving it?

Quote
Carnos Jax
If anyone cares to read up on these staged videos:

[www.reddit.com]

[www.reddit.com]

Reddit posts are not factual.

Reddit posts citing opinion-blogs are not factual.



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 09:18PM
I sincerely don’t understand it then. I’m not trying to be argumentative here, but then how do you say a Twitter post is factual? On top of that it is a Twitter post by another random guy with a hedge fund that is invested in a competing technology. Why are you questioning the reliability or credibility of one but not the other? I really don’t get it, it doesn’t make sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 09:18PM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: gadje
Date: January 29, 2023 09:20PM
are these videos fake?

[www.marketwatch.com]

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 09:40PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
I sincerely don’t understand it then. I’m not trying to be argumentative here, but then how do you say a Twitter post is factual? On top of that it is a Twitter post by another random guy with a hedge fund that is invested in a competing technology. Why are you questioning the reliability or credibility of one but not the other? I really don’t get it, it doesn’t make sense.

To you, a video and testing by a group that's got the expertise to do so properly -- and after all the publicity has not one single news agency contradicting the result -- is less credible than a Reddit post pointing to the blog of a bad musician as the authority?

Really?

REAAALLLY?





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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 09:53PM
Did you read the linked articles in the Reddit OP? He lays out very well why none of those videos are real or can be trusted. When pressed, your source either admit the videos weren’t as purported or were otherwise evasive. I don’t think anyone here would believe the source is credible. The guy runs a hedge fund that’s invested in the competitor’s technology. You’re seriously telling me that this doesn’t make you suspect of them? I find that hard to believe because usually your sources are vetted pretty good.

Furthermore, no news agency could confirm or repeat any of your sources tests. They simply just reported on it because it made headlines because it was Tesla, and they’re certainly not gonna go back after the fact and correct themselves on something like this I figured you would have known this well, especially considering how much we’ve seen that sort of thing with Apple related news



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 09:58PM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 29, 2023 10:43PM
It's perfectly fine to be skeptical, but if you're going to be skeptical, be skeptical of EVERYTHING.

The musician makes several suppositions, asks some questions that were already answered in the original video, asks other questions which sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist and doesn't get answers to those... and? Did this actually shed light onto anything? It's BS framed as some sort of exposé for fanboys. It's not credible.

Point to legit primary sources.



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 11:19PM
And the other guys are businessmen* with a vested financial interest in ensuring their companies products have a viable future through the survival of legacy OEMS. They are not experts or scientists in the field. They created ad hoc videos that no one else seems to be able to repeat. The onus is on you to point to primary sources in this case, as the sources you’ve submitted do not meet any forensic or scientific standards. No one else, not even the government, believes them, otherwise they would have put a stop to Tesla doing this.

*One is a hedge fund manager who’s hedge fund invested in a company that produces LIDAR equipment and the other a (retired?) business owner whose company sells various software to the legacy OEMs. Conflict of interest can you say?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2023 11:35PM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 29, 2023 11:51PM
You would think when these allegations came out and the news stories broke, that all sorts of people, organizations and governmental agencies would have tried to reproduce these results. And you can be sure they did try. You honestly believe they found the allegations to be true, yet have done nothing about it to this day? No news stories confirming these fraudsters ‘experiments’? No governmental orders telling Tesla to disable FSD on city streets?
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: btfc
Date: January 30, 2023 12:47AM
[www.nhtsa.gov]
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 30, 2023 05:38AM
Quote
Carnos Jax
You would think when these allegations came out and the news stories broke, that all sorts of people, organizations and governmental agencies would have tried to reproduce these results. And you can be sure they did try. You honestly believe they found the allegations to be true, yet have done nothing about it to this day? No news stories confirming these fraudsters ‘experiments’? No governmental orders telling Tesla to disable FSD on city streets?

Governments are slow to act against corporations, but they do eventually take action.

[www.reuters.com]



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 30, 2023 08:46AM
Agreed….but they aren’t slow to act if the product is killing innocent bystanders. If this was a problem the government would’ve intervened by now (not to mention the news organizations plastering media with their own tests).
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: January 30, 2023 05:30PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Agreed….but they aren’t slow to act if the product is killing innocent bystanders. If this was a problem the government would’ve intervened by now (not to mention the news organizations plastering media with their own tests).

I don't think that you believe that. I could easily name a half dozen companies that got away with mass-murder, and so could you without much effort.



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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 30, 2023 06:05PM
Not if it was Tesla.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: kj
Date: January 30, 2023 07:57PM
Carnos is right, there has been no creditable accusation made so there is no defense necessary. Consumer Reports has always been crap, and is no better now. It helps people make decisions, but not good ones. I'm skeptical of any negative press on Tesla because it's such a bandwagon thing. It's lucrative to come up with a good one like the above meme.

Plus, I don't want a car to drive itself because I like driving. I'm not rooting for it, because once they work well, we probably won't have the choice to drive ourselves.
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Re: Consumer Reports on different versions of self-driving systems- Tesla ranked 7
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: January 30, 2023 09:38PM
Quote
kj
Plus, I don't want a car to drive itself because I like driving. I'm not rooting for it, because once they work well, we probably won't have the choice to drive ourselves.

While I look forward to it (cost of transportation and housing going down, able to ‘drive’ into old age, etc.) I fear it for the same reason you do. It is reasonable to think one day they’ll outlaw human drivers if this type of thing is a success.
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