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Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: January 24, 2006 07:56PM
I'm thinking about getting a TiVo. I've had cable company DVR's before and I'll miss not having dual tuners, but that's ok. In my new apartment I get "free" basic cable and I'm in a smaller town so there is no cable box or anything.

So -any downsides to buying a TiVo? They aren't going to come out with a new version as soon as I place my order are they?

Thanks in advance!

Jerry




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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: davester
Date: January 24, 2006 08:12PM
ReplayTV is better. Search back through the forum for discussions of why. Unfortunately, you'll have to buy a used one (because ReplayTV is switching over to a software/mediaPC model), though these are easy to find on craigslist and on [www.avsforum.com] . ...and yes, many folks still think it is still well worth getting the ReplayTV even though the box has been discontinued.
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 24, 2006 08:18PM
ReplayTV. Hands down. ESPECIALLY if you're a Mac user, and want the flexibility to do DVArchive.



---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: spearmint
Date: January 24, 2006 08:24PM
Didn't the origninal Tivo have commercial filtering and the newer ones not?
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: davester
Date: January 24, 2006 08:31PM
No. TiVo never had commercial filtering. ReplayTVs prior to the current model had automatic commercial filtering (known as Commercial Advance or CA). The current models (55xx models) only have manual 30 second skip. The CA models are the 50xx and 45xx models. The best strategy is to try to pick up a used or refurbed 50xx (i.e. 5040, 5080, 5160, etc)...these are identical to the 55xx models except that the 55xx models have had the CA disabled due to lawyer antics.
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: hal
Date: January 24, 2006 08:56PM
"Any downside to buying a TiVo?"

you mean besides addiction?
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: January 24, 2006 08:59PM
So TiVO and the Mac don't work together?



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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 24, 2006 09:10PM
davester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. TiVo never had commercial filtering.
> ReplayTVs prior to the current model had automatic
> commercial filtering (known as Commercial Advance
> or CA). The current models (55xx models) only
> have manual 30 second skip.

THIS IS NOT TRUE.

Such is the advice you get on the net--take it all with a grain of salt.

The 4xxx and 5xxx models (to include both 50xx and 55xx) ALL have a method for marking where commercial breaks begin and end within the show. Clear?

The 4xxx and 50xx models have Automatic Commercial Advance. You turn that feature on, and the ReplayTV will *automatically* skip over commercials using these markers. There is no need for the end user to do anything.

The 55xx models are missing the AUTOMATIC part of the commercial advance. That's all. You may still use those markers to your advantage, but--and this is where it gets tricky--you have to push the right arrow button on the remote when you see a commercial begin. This tells the Replay to go to the next program marker and resume playback.

And, both the 4xxx and 50xx models can do the same thing, if you choose. Simply turn off the Automatic Commercial Advance feature and use it manually, like 55xx users are forced to do.

All the units, regardless, have the 30 second forward and 7 second backward buttons. Quite handy, to the point where I hate to watch DVDs anymore since my DVD player lacks such functionality.



> The CA models are the
> 50xx and 45xx models.

Not true. See above. Please be accurate and distinguish between Automatic Commercial Advance and manual commercial advance (which ReplayTV calls Show/Nav) and no commercial advance at all.


> The best strategy is to try
> to pick up a used or refurbed 50xx (i.e. 5040,
> 5080, 5160, etc)...these are identical to the 55xx
> models except that the 55xx models have had the CA
> disabled due to lawyer antics.

Not true. See above.

However, the best strategy *is* to pick up a 5040 with lifetime activation. You'll pay no more than $400 for it off of Ebay, then you'll either drop a large hard drive into it or else use DVArchive liberally to store the shows off of the Replay while keeping them playable on your TV through the Replay.






---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 24, 2006 09:10PM
Jerry® Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So TiVO and the Mac don't work together?

Nothing like ReplayTV and Macintosh.

DVArchive is a beautiful piece of work.



---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: davester
Date: January 24, 2006 09:25PM
Elmo, what is wrong with you? Instead of make a minor correction to my post, you lather on the insults, and throw up a giant smokescreen, replete with your own errors. ReplayTV terminology for the automatic feature is CA or Commercial Advance. The 55xx models do NOT have CA. However, I had forgotten that they added the manual commercial skip function (referred to them as show/nav I believe, NOT referred to as CA by anyone except you). The points in my post are correct except that I omitted the addition of the show/nav feature. Get a life!
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: January 24, 2006 09:33PM
elmo3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jerry® Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So TiVO and the Mac don't work together?
>
> Nothing like ReplayTV and Macintosh.
>
> DVArchive is a beautiful piece of work.
>
> ---
>
> Never underestimate the power of stupid people in
> large groups.


Can you explain DVArchive to me? Thanks.



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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: joycee
Date: January 24, 2006 09:49PM
davester and elmo3 beat me to it - the only downside to buying a TiVo is that it's not a ReplayTV! grinning smiley

Here's a site that compares the various PVRs, if you want more in depth info:
[www.pvrcompare.com]

elmo3, thanks for the info on how to make my 5504 (which now has a 300 GB HD in it!) do a CA - I never knew I should be hitting the right arrow button - I've always just hit the 30-second advance a few times - d'oh!

I usually watch my shows through my networked 5040 (which has a 320 GB HD in it, BTW), so it does the CA even if I'm watching a show that's recorded on the 5504.

Isn't the ability to network them (to each other and also with your computer via DVArchive) and to share programs over the internet (with the 5040 and similar models) another advantage of Replays over TiVos?





*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´How about if you greased them up first? Are chihuahua's cooperative pack hunters? ~TheCaber
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: joycee
Date: January 24, 2006 10:02PM
Jerry® Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Can you explain DVArchive to me? Thanks.


Check out this page: [www.dvarchive.org]
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: January 24, 2006 10:10PM
So no one likes TiVo over RePlay? I guess it really comes down to being able to transfer/archive/etc shows from RePlay to Mac. If I'm not really interested in that -what's the difference then? I think the TiVo wins then. Hmmm



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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: BLeonard
Date: January 24, 2006 10:22PM
I have three Tivos and have been very happy with them. I'm also a Mac user since 1984.

I purchased my Tivos in late 1999 and early 2000 so they are all Series 1 boxes. Of course I upgraded the hard drives and memory and I have lifetime subscriptions so there is no continuing cost.

Best place to get accurate info on Tivo is here:

[www.tivocommunity.com]

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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: joycee
Date: January 24, 2006 10:22PM
Jerry, did you look at my link to the site that compares them? [www.pvrcompare.com]
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: hwystar
Date: January 24, 2006 10:41PM
For most Mac users, the ability to easily (and automagically, if so desired) offload shows from PVR to a computer is quite a desirable feature, I know it is for me. I have been an avid DVArchive user for years.

Here is a post I have posted previously on another forum on this topic [I updated it slightly]:

If you are a Mac user, and you like the idea of a TiVo, then you will LOVE ReplayTV, especially when used with DVArchive software (see below). If you are searching for a DVR solution, you might want to consider something similar to the one I describe below. I still think a solution such as mine is the most cost effective, for my needs. I have been using this system in its present configuration for about a year now and it works great for me.

I use two ReplayTVs, each with 40 GB hard drives [I have now upgraded both of them with 300 GB drives, after the initial one year warranty ran out]. They are hardwired to the same switch as my PowerTowerPro (G4/800 OS 10.3) running DVArchive S/W. This free S/W enables the Replays to see any computer on your network running DVArchive as another ReplayTV. My PTPro video server has more than 2 TB of hard drive space dedicated to video, so it really makes my system much more flexible and gives me plenty of room for storage of overflow shows from the ReplayTVs. (I have almost 2100 shows and movies stored on the PTPro.)

IMO, this beats the heck out of cracking open the ReplayTV units and voiding the warranty to add HD space. [I left the 40 GB stock drives in the ReplayTVs until the warranty ran out]. I realize that this system may seem like overkill for some users, but I think a lot of us DVR users have found that when it comes to storage space, "if some is good, then more is better."

I am using DVArchive (free, open source software) to offload shows that I record on my ReplayTVs onto my PTPro video server for longer term storage, and later playback or DVD burning. This frees up space, daily, on my ReplayTVs, which are [were] only 40 GB each, and allows me to save shows I have not had time to watch yet. This way I can record a whole season's worth of shows, for instance, before committing them to DVD.

I don't usually watch the shows I store on my video server on it (although that is quite possible), I typically stream them back to my ReplayTVs and watch them on my TV monitor.

There is also a site for DVArchive users: [www.dvarchive.org]

I highly recommend that you check this site out, and consider this software in your decision making process. The availability of this software is what made my system possible.

ReplayTVs come with streaming over Ethernet capability built in, at no extra cost. Until recently, anyway, the home media option for TiVos was an additional $100, AND you have to copy a show to another TiVo before you can play it back. This is important, and saves a lot of time wasting copying.

The older model ReplayTVs (like mine) have the commercial skip function built in. There are ones available on eBay for instance that have the lifetime subscription already included.

The ReplayTVs will stream in MPEG or MPEG2 out of the box, so they are compatible with your Macs. TiVos are not, and their format has to be decoded/converted to work with a Mac. The 5040s can stream over the Internet out of the box, also. So I can send my ReplayTV using friends shows over the Internet, with just a few clicks, using the IVS (Internet Video Sharing) function. Also, another plus is the Poopli show-sharing service at [www.poopli.com], where you can swap shows and movies with other ReplayTV users. It does take some significant time, however, because they do not stream over the Internet very fast.

So from any ReplayTV (or Mac running DV Archive SW) on my system, I can call up any show located on any ReplayTV (or Mac running DV Archive SW) and stream it from the source to the target in real time, and watch it, without copying it over first, and control the playback (transport controls, play, stop, pause, RW, FF, commercial skip, skip forward, back, etc.) from the target machine.

For everyday shows, I like to record them to my ReplayTVs to watch, and then play them back with commercial skip on while burning them to DVD, that way, for instance, I can archive 9 MadTV episodes (ea. one hour long w/ commercials, @ 42 min. without) to one DVD blank, at standard quality (fine for everyday recording, not movies or sports, however). Since the ReplayTVs will play back one show while recording another, this process works well. I am paying @ $0.15-0.30 ea. for blanks at present, so it is very cost effective. I prefer to record movies in real time at one of the higher quality settings.

I use one of the inexpensive stand-alone DVD Recorders that are on the market typically for less than $200. This is because I record enough shows that I do not want to tie up my computers recording DVDs, and I want it to be basically a hands-off process. The way I have my system set up right now, it will record from any of my ReplayTVs, from my PTPro video server, or from direct cable or one of my converter boxes.

In my opinion, this type of system gives me much more flexibility in the long term than do the all-in-one units that combine the DVR with the DVD Recorder into one box. I can do things like play back one previously recorded show and burn it to DVD while recording another show on the same ReplayTV machine, while recording a third show on the other ReplayTV, while watching a fourth show. And my investment is much lower than any system with comparable capabilities that I have seen so far. Plus, it is modular, so if an advancement is made in one area, I don't have to trash my whole system, and can just upgrade one component.

HTH



hwystar
___________________

teelblue">"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who loves his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair." ~H. L. Mencken Ibid.: "The Coolidge Buncombe", pp.411-2
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: spearmint
Date: January 24, 2006 10:48PM
Neither support HDTV. That's no fun. Hurts their bling.
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: Dick Moore
Date: January 25, 2006 01:01AM
My TiVO is thru DirecTV, so the ReplayTV was not an option I looked into. I've got a series 2 dual tuner TiVO and we just absolutely love the darn thing. Easy to use, and the tivocommunity web site pointed me to the way to get my unit to do the 30 second skip, so getting thru commercials is a few button pushes. Not as nice as the replay TV CA system, but very usable. No complaints at all so far.



What it is, man, a low-down and funky feelin'
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: davester
Date: January 25, 2006 01:11AM
Jerry® Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So no one likes TiVo over RePlay? I guess it
> really comes down to being able to
> transfer/archive/etc shows from RePlay to Mac. If
> I'm not really interested in that -what's the
> difference then? I think the TiVo wins then. Hmmm

No, the TiVo doesn't win. The Replay still has far superior in-show navigation, including either automatic or manual commercial skipping (TiVo doesn't have that, though you can hack in a 30 sec skip). The Replays have higher picture quality than the TiVos, especially since they redid the software a few months ago. IMHO, the interface on the Replays is better and I think their theme catalog is great (hard to explain, but all TV shows 24/7 in your area for the next 2 weeks are categorized by a whole slew of very useful categories and subcategories...makes browsing for interesting stuff way easier. For example, I can search for 3*+ movies or for classic sci fi, or modern sci fi, or soccer games or hockey or extreme games or film noir or....on and on). Also, if you have two Replays in different rooms, they can stream shows back and forth. The only thing TiVo beats replay on is the accuracy of their "season passes"...not a big deal IMHO.

Note that we are discussing regular TiVo. There is another kind of TiVo called DirecTiVo. I'm not sure if they are still selling it, but it is (was) a combo DirecTV satellite receiver and DVR using the TiVo software. It is a completely different system from the regular TiVo and is probably superior to both ReplayTv and regular TiVo because it records directly from the satellite feed rather than compressing the signal, and has two tuners rather than one, although it still doesn't do commercial skipping. I also seem to recall that it is difficult or impossible to upgrade the rather skimpy hard drives in it (though I could be wrong about that). Unfortunately, I think DirecTiVo has been discontinued because DirecTV wanted to keep all the money themselves, so they have substituted a gadawful crummy DVR for the DirecTiVos.






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2006 01:17AM by davester.
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 25, 2006 05:17AM
davester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elmo, what is wrong with you? Instead of make a
> minor correction to my post, you lather on the
> insults, and throw up a giant smokescreen, replete
> with your own errors. ReplayTV terminology for the
> automatic feature is CA or Commercial Advance.

Wrong. They call it Automatic Commercial Advance. The manual invocation of the same feature they call Show/Nav.

It wasn't a minor correction; you said that the 55xx series had only the 30 second skip, which was flat-out wrong. You're spreading misinformation.


> The 55xx models do NOT have CA. However, I had
> forgotten that they added the manual commercial
> skip function (referred to them as show/nav I
> believe, NOT referred to as CA by anyone except
> you).

I didn't call it CA; I called it Show/Nav. Go back and read my post.

I was simply explaining in greater detail in order to counter the misinformation you spread.


> The points in my post are correct except
> that I omitted the addition of the show/nav
> feature. Get a life!

You not only omitted it, you flat-out stated that it didn't have anything like it by saying that the 55xx had only the 30 second skip.

I got a life. Right here, we're discussing ReplayTV--and you got a bunch of the details wrong.

How do you react when you see someone who doesn't know better spread misinformation about Macintosh? "Oh, you can do the same thing on Windows, they both have the same features." Yeah, right.






---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 25, 2006 05:23AM
Jerry® Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you explain DVArchive to me? Thanks.

Sure. It's a program that runs on your computer (Mac, Windows, Linux) and appears to the network as another ReplayTV. It does everything your Replay does except record shows. The main use for this is to use it as a handy repository for shows that you don't want to or can't keep on your ReplayTV itself, but still want to watch. Your ReplayTV will see your DVArchive as another network connected Replay, and you can stream shows from it.

With DVArchive, you can also look into your ReplayTV and simply export shows out from it--for passing on to others, burning to DVD, and so on. You can also see the TV schedule on DVArchive and schedule shows. You can also view the list of what's recorded on your Replay, and delete its shows as needed. You can also use DVA as a remote control for your Replay.

If you have VLC installed along with DVA, you can be sitting at your computer and stream a show from your Replay to your computer, showing it through VLC. Some people manage to set up a suitable wireless network and watch their recordings on their Powerbooks anywhere in the house.

If you like, you can access DVArchive as a web server from anywhere in the world--and control your entire ReplayTV situation that way. (Of course. [my.replaytv.com] lets you do that as well, but that's through the Replay service--which means that any changes you make won't happen until the next day after your Replay connects to the service.)

I'm sure I've missed some things, but DVA is damn powerful juju.



---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 25, 2006 05:29AM
spearmint Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neither support HDTV. That's no fun. Hurts their
> bling.

I can't wait to see what ReplayTV does with their new software focus. If they give me the ability to build a video server with multiple tuners that can do analog/SD/HD as I choose, and stream that to any TV in my house (via network--easy to do), I'm there.



---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: davester
Date: January 25, 2006 11:49AM
elmo3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong. They call it Automatic Commercial Advance.

No they don't, and never have. The automatic feature is referred to simply as Commercial Advance (a registered trademark). There is nothing referred to as CA on the 55xx series, manual or otherwise.

> I didn't call it CA; I called it Show/Nav. Go
> back and read my post.

You called it both. That's what I was calling you on. I wouldn't bring it up if you weren't determined to be such a condescending ass about the whole thing.
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: January 25, 2006 11:55AM
Hi everyone,

Just to throw something into the discussion. Toshiba, Pioneer and Humax have TIVO DVd Recorders. I have the Toshiba RS-TX20 and adore it.

Unlike a standard TIVO or ReplayTV, these give you all the benefits of a TIVO as well as the ability to archive content to DVD. You can also use it to convert non-copyprotected VHS tapes to DVD. Admittedly, you can't edit out the commercials before burning but I've found this to be a non-issue. Worst case, I can always rip the DVD into a computer and edit it from there.

The units produced by toshiba and Pioneer also include TIVO Basic free of charge. This is a scaled down version of the TIVO service. It turns the unit into a glorified VCR with the TIVO Guide. Buy the machine and you can use it out of the box. No need to pay a monthly fee unless you want to TIVO Plus service.

Robert
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: rz
Date: January 25, 2006 12:53PM
just a note about DirecTivo... they do make a High Def version, although it's a bit pricey right now ($399 a/r). Actually, it's not "Tivo", it's DirecTV's own model PVR, but is pretty much the same as Tivo. I will be getting two of them as soon as my local channels are available on DirecTV (later this year).
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Re: Any downside to buying a TiVo?
Posted by: elmo3
Date: January 25, 2006 06:11PM
davester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No they don't, and never have. The automatic
> feature is referred to simply as Commercial
> Advance (a registered trademark).

You're wrong.



---------------


In the words of DharmaDog: "it may or may not be utter horse@#$%&, but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it doesn't agree with your opinion."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Trying is the first step to failure. -- Homer Simpson
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