For myself, it's Brian Cox and Neil DeGrasse Tyson, both physicists. There are others, but these guys are amazing for their keen insights, boyish enthusiasm, and simple explanations of complex topics. They are both in their own way successors to Carl Sagan who was also enthralled by the universe, but in a bit more pompous way. Here are a couple of short clips from them:

Brian Cox:
[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]


Neil DeGrasse Tyson:
[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

So, who are your oracles of wisdom?

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2023 02:41PM by davester.

When I first read the subject line, I thought this was going to be about music. My answer then, of course, would be Steely Dan.

(added: yes, despite the fact that Wall of Voodoo is my signature image)

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2023 02:37PM by Zoidberg.

Quote
Zoidberg
When I first read the subject line, I thought this was going to be about music.

Ah, I see why. I edited the subject line to make the topic more obvious.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

I don't have any as it relates to the universe, but I think those names are a good grouping.

I'll put in a plug for the BBC series, Blue Planet and Frozen Planet as highly recommended for a perspective on our blue orb, third stone from the sun.

---

Hurts like a bastid...

Why did you remove the universe?

Quote
gadje
Why did you remove the universe?

When I added read and watch I decided to make the title shorter and the topic more expansive in case people had other types of wisdom to pass along.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Vice Grip Garage

Quote
Forrest
Vice Grip Garage

That guy is hilarious

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Hurts like a bastid...

A couple for more temporal matters…

Todd Osgood; the guy who is Project Farm

Nick Engler; the Woodshop Companion

Dr. Chris Smith.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson tends to speak in absolutes and it puts me off.

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I would trust a Magic 8 Ball before Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

JPK

Quote
JPK
I would trust a Magic 8 Ball before Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

JPK

Care to explain? Do you have a different understanding of physics than him?

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

I look for resources that instead of dispensing wisdom, instead teach you how to suss out the wisdom for yourself by teaching critical thinking and applying the process of the scientific method to everything in your life.

So: the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast

The book I think about most often and filter much of my understanding is Divided existence and complex society: An historical approach by J.H. van den Berg.

What can a Dutch phenomenologist say about modern life? Quite a bit.

Todd's slit-key board

Which kind of wisdom? Interpersonal? Emotional? Spiritual? Political?

On the political – history side, right now I’m listening on Spotify to a fabulous podcast by Yale professor Gary Snyder on the history of Ukraine. Really superb.

Quote
anonymouse1
Which kind of wisdom? Interpersonal? Emotional? Spiritual? Political?

Your choice. I started the thread with a "wisdom about the universe" modifier but removed the universe part because I wanted to hear what other people found to be important and meaningful to them.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Quote
Lew Zealand
I look for resources that instead of dispensing wisdom, instead teach you how to suss out the wisdom for yourself by teaching critical thinking and applying the process of the scientific method to everything in your life.

So true. I now realize that my sources were really about knowledge rather than wisdom. It's funny that I did that since I am adamant that school courses often incorrectly teach science as a list of facts (i.e. knowledge) instead of a method of critical thinking and learning (i.e. wisdom).

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Quote
davester

Quote
JPK
I would trust a Magic 8 Ball before Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

JPK

Care to explain? Do you have a different understanding of physics than him?

He talks about a lot more than just physics, and I've found he sometimes isn't aware of all that's been done relating to other subjects. And of course, when he speaks about things that don't relate to science, there's plenty of room for disagreement, although he seems fairly reasonable to me.

Babylon 5

The wisdom of JMS (Often in the voice of J'Kar).

---

San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

Quote
Tiangou

Neil DeGrasse Tyson tends to speak in absolutes and it puts me off.

He does seem absolutist and arrogant in a lot of his popular output - my feeling is that it is because of the similarly absolutist views of religious anti-science populace, which seems to be more represented here than in any other developed country.

But if you watch his Inexplicable Universe series of The Great Courses, you can see a thoughtful, humble discourse on the limitations of current understanding of the universe. It used to be available on Netflix, unfortunately no longer so.

For marriage I listen to Focus on the Family Marriage podcast.
[overcast.fm]

For life in general I like Isaac Johnson’s Counceling Corner
[open.spotify.com]

Weekly sermon at church (Book of John currently)
[tietondrivebiblechapel.org]

Sunday school (making breakthroughs)
[www.audible.com]

Men’s Accountability Group
Once a week so they can advise me or call me on my baloney

Weekly bible study group
Currently in book of Daniel

Daily devotional
I chose books with challenging questions for couples.
My favorite are the Ramsey books but I’m currently doing a Dobson book.
[www.amazon.com]

Washington Post for news
I like their six minute catch-up audio clip every morning
[www.washingtonpost.com]

Slash dot for tech news
[slashdot.org]

---

Ukulele music I couldn't find anywhere else.
[colquhoun.info]

MRF Friendly Political Ranting

Ok, I'm going to draw a distinction between "wisdom" and "information".

For me, wisdom is about one of two things: (a) the ability to make good decisions, or (b) a truer, deeper understanding.

There's a lot of subjectivity involved with (b)-most folks, in my humble experience, tend to bring their prior assumptions to reaching that understanding, which results in suboptimal understanding.

For (a), I have found two things helpful, generally. The first is to tap one's own wisdom, through meditation or contemplative prayer. Takes a long-ish time, and repeated disciplined effort. The second is the shorter, earlier books by Idries Shah, about Sufism. I find them incredibly thought provoking. Here are a couple of my favorites:

Deeper:
[www.amazon.com]

[www.amazon.com]

Lighter, really fun:
[www.amazon.com]

[www.amazon.com]

Quote
davester

Quote
Lew Zealand
I look for resources that instead of dispensing wisdom, instead teach you how to suss out the wisdom for yourself by teaching critical thinking and applying the process of the scientific method to everything in your life.

So true. I now realize that my sources were really about knowledge rather than wisdom. It's funny that I did that since I am adamant that school courses often incorrectly teach science as a list of facts (i.e. knowledge) instead of a method of critical thinking and learning (i.e. wisdom).

Can you share a link to that podcast? Sounds interesting to me.

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**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#

I believe I’m understanding why there’s, shall we say displeasure, here with DeGrasse Tyson.

Quote
DeusxMac
I believe I’m understanding why there’s, shall we say displeasure, here with DeGrasse Tyson.

Interesting. I've only ever listened to DeGrasse Tyson's online lectures or interviews regarding physics, cosmology, and the difference between science and religion. Seems that some people get upset that he makes occasional off-base off-the-cuff tweets or comments on unrelated stuff that I've never bothered to look at. I stick with topics that he is an expert at and could care less about that other stuff.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Big fan of Tyson, and Sagan before that.

Quote
davester

Quote
DeusxMac
I believe I’m understanding why there’s, shall we say displeasure, here with DeGrasse Tyson.

Interesting. I've only ever listened to DeGrasse Tyson's online lectures or interviews regarding physics, cosmology, and the difference between science and religion.

Not to get this thread sent to the other side (assuming it isn't already worthy), but I believe this is the issue.

Quote
anonymouse1
Which kind of wisdom? Interpersonal? Emotional? Spiritual? Political?

On the political – history side, right now I’m listening on Spotify to a fabulous podcast by Yale professor Gary Snyder on the history of Ukraine. Really superb.

Timothy Snyder's 20+ hour public lectures on Utube are terrific but a bit rifle aimed at European/Ukrainian history. Even though a bit long in the tooth, Noam Chomsky still has much to offer.

Tyson is brilliant to be sure, but his overall style is kind of condescending somehow? I prefer the wide-eyed astronomer schtick of Sagan, RIP. Sagan was critical of religion, but still held a sympathetic tone that religion is an artifact of humanity's search for meaning, especially in the days before science could provide helpful answers. Imperfect and at times abused, but at its root an honest endeavor.

Quote
Acer
I prefer the wide-eyed astronomer schtick of Sagan, RIP.

This is why I like Brian Cox. If you haven't watched him then you owe it to yourself to do so.

Quote
Acer
Sagan was critical of religion, but still held a sympathetic tone that religion is an artifact of humanity's search for meaning, especially in the days before science could provide helpful answers. Imperfect and at times abused, but at its root an honest endeavor.

I think that DeGrasse Tyson has much the same attitude. He's not anti religion. I don't think it's something he talks about much at all, and I've only seen him discuss this when he's been questioned by religious people on whether he believes in god or not. He just says that there's no evidence for the existence of any god as described in religious texts (all powerful, all good) and quite a bit of contrary evidence when looking at the real world. He also says that he has an open mind and that if such evidence shows up then he'll be completely onboard with there being a god.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

“‘God’ is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.“
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Quote
DeusxMac
“‘God’ is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.“
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

That is an inflammatory, out of context, partial quote. You are just trolling here.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Quote
DeusxMac
“‘God’ is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.“
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

That is an inflammatory, out of context, partial quote. It was used in a rather long debunking of an attack on him by a political nutcase and does not reflect his attitude toward the overall question. You are just trolling here.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2023 11:04PM by davester.

Quote
davester

Quote
DeusxMac
“‘God’ is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.“
- Neil deGrasse Tyson

That is an inflammatory, out of context, partial quote. It was used in a rather long debunking of an attack on him by a political nutcase and does not reflect his attitude toward the overall question. You are just trolling here.

I agee that it's taken out of context. But the shortened version is all over the place as a meme, so the intention may have been true, not trolling.

BTW, more context:

Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of physicists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, here’s a list of things in the past that the physicists at the time didn’t understand [and now we do understand] [...]. If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on - so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem.

---

Quote
Zoidberg
My answer then, of course, would be Steely Dan.

Quote
davester

Quote
Zoidberg
When I first read the subject line, I thought this was going to be about music.

Ah, I see why. I edited the subject line to make the topic more obvious.

I'll stick with the Dan.

"We've got nothin' in common, no we can't talk at all"