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PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: May 26, 2023 04:38PM
HP has found an exciting new way to DRM your printer!

Amazon’s No. 1 bestselling printer is the HP Deskjet 2755e. It’s not hard to see why. For just $85, you get a wireless color printer, scanner, and six months of free ink. It also comes with HP Plus, one of the most dastardly schemes Big Inkjet has ever unleashed.

I’m not talking about how printers quietly waste their own ink, or pretend cartridges are empty when they’re not, or lock out official cartridges from other regions. Heck, I’m not even talking about “Dynamic Security,” the delightful feature where new HP firmware updates secretly contain malware that blocks batches of third-party cartridges while pretending to harden your printhead against hacks.

No, the genius of HP’s latest scheme is that it’s hiding in plain sight, daring you to unwittingly sign away your rights. Take the free ink, and HP controls your printer for life.

First introduced in 2020 at the height of the pandemic, HP Plus was built around FOMO right from the start. You get just seven days to claim your free ink, starting the moment you plug a new printer into the wall. Act now, and it’ll also extend your warranty a full year, give you an “Advanced HP Smart app,” and plant trees on your behalf. Because why wouldn’t you want to save the forest?

Here’s one reason, as detailed in a new complaint by the International Imaging Technology Council (IITC) that might turn into a false advertising fight: HP Plus comes with a firmware update that utterly removes your printer’s ability to accept third-party ink. You have to buy “genuine” HP ink as long as you use the printer...

It’d be one thing if you could cancel HP Plus and start using your printer normally again, but nope! Even though HP claims you can “change or cancel anytime,” there’s no way to deactivate the firmware, HP’s own tech support told the IITC. (A Verge source corroborates this as well.) ...

Here are a few choice quotes from the terms and conditions for HP’s ink service that I think you’ll appreciate...

You expressly allow HP to remotely change, patch, update or otherwise modify Your printer’s software, firmware or programming remotely, without notice to You, in order to provide the Service to You or to comply with applicable laws

Remote monitoring may include provision to HP of one or more of: page counts, types of documents printed (e.g., Word, PowerPoint, pdf, jpeg, etc.), types of devices that initiated print jobs, printer serial number, cartridge information (e.g. HP original cartridge status, and whether the cartridge was new or used at the time of its last insertion into the printer), and other similar types of metrics related to your Service as may be added by HP from time to time

You agree to maintain connectivity of Your Printer to the Internet and to not remove or disable any remote monitoring software or functionality on Your Printer

If Your printer is not connected to the Internet, then the Subscription Cartridges (as defined in section d. below) will be disabled, and You will not be able to use them to print; however, You will continue to be charged for the Service
...


HP is also forcing users of multifunction printers to sign into HP cloud services to track each scan.

I think they have a devious plan to alienate all of their customers, go bankrupt, and... PROFIT!



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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 26, 2023 04:49PM
....it's....HP.....to be square.....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 26, 2023 04:54PM
I just want to print my documents, not bring about the New World Order.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: rz
Date: May 26, 2023 05:05PM
Hopefully they don’t do that with their laser printers.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: hal
Date: May 26, 2023 05:08PM
it seems that everyone is trying to turn their product into an internet enhanced product service.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 26, 2023 05:11PM
Tiangou,

I saw that option when I bought an HP 9025e. Ignored it. No problems using the machine without access to the Internet and with off-the-shelf OEM cartridges.

Robert
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: gadje
Date: May 26, 2023 05:21PM
HP fan responded as expected.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 26, 2023 05:30PM
gadje,

No need for snarkiness. It's rude. Although I am a fan of HP printers, I don't like what HP is doing any more than you. That's why I didn't sign up for it when the opportunity reared its head. Same goes for Instant Ink. Both were unnecessary. Something else that you seem to forget is that I purchase machines based on features, quality and longevity. Not just brand.

At the time, when I needed a new inkjet all-in-one there was no other printer from any manufacturer in the price range of the 9025e that offered the same features. One key feature was single-pass duplex scanning. That was the game changer at the time. Not sure if similar models from competitors offer that feature yet. If yes, then I'd look at one when the 9025e goes kablooey or another member of the family needs a new inkjet all-in-one.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2023 06:50PM by Robert M.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: May 26, 2023 06:30PM
Another thing that HP does...

[www.theatlantic.com]

After years of holding out, my family finally succumbed to a pandemic inkjet purchase. (Like many, we were doing a lot of online shopping in 2020, which meant a lot of return labels.) I girded my loins for the agony of paper jams, phantom spooler errors, and the dreaded utterance “Driver not found.” What I did not expect, however, was for my printer to shake me down like a loan shark.

The trouble started with a label for a package. My printer was unresponsive. Then I discovered an error message on my computer indicating that my HP OfficeJet Pro had been remotely disabled by the company. When I logged on to HP’s website, I learned why: The credit card I had used to sign up for HP’s Instant Ink cartridge-refill program had expired, and the company had effectively bricked my device in response.

For those not trapped in this devil’s bargain, Instant Ink is a monthly subscription program that purports to monitor one’s printer usage and ink levels and automatically send new cartridges when they run low. The name is misleading, because the monthly fee is not for the ink itself but for the number of pages printed. (The recommended household plan is $5.99 a month for 100 pages). Like others, I signed up in haste during the printer-setup process, only slightly aware of what I was purchasing. Getting ink delivered when I need it sounded convenient enough to me, a man so thoroughly coddled by one-click e-commerce that the frontal lobes of my brain likely resemble cottage cheese. The monthly fee is incurred whether you print or not, and the ink cartridges occupy some liminal ownership space. You possess them, but you are, in essence, renting both them and your machine while you’re enrolled in the program.

I’ve struggled in subsequent conversations with friends and family to adequately convey the level and intensity of entitled fury I felt when I realized all of this. Here was a piece of technology that I had paid more than $200 for, stocked with full ink cartridges. My printer, gently used, was sitting on my desk in perfect working order but rendered useless by Hewlett-Packard, a tech corporation with a $28 billion market cap at the time of writing, because I had failed to make a monthly payment for a service intended to deliver new printer cartridges that I did not yet need.




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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: gadje
Date: May 26, 2023 07:23PM
Apologies, I didn't want to be rude, but I was.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 26, 2023 07:24PM
....what if one needs a HP replacement....????



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: gadje
Date: May 26, 2023 07:26PM
Also they have confusing prices, a few months ago I saw 2 different web pages with different fees for the same monthly volume.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Forrest
Date: May 27, 2023 01:03AM
I see nothing alarming. I bought.my current HP AIO 5 years ago and have been subscribed to HPink from the beginning. For $3 to $6 per month, I can print 50-100 pages per month, with 3 month rollover. I’ve saved in excess of $100 over buying my own ink cartridges. Nothing to complain about here. If your CC is nearing expiration, HP sends you reminder emails prior to it expiring.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: samintx
Date: May 27, 2023 04:52AM
Sign up yes or no? Does signing up for ink mean HP owns you?
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 27, 2023 06:47AM
Sam,

Sounds like it. I chose not to sign up. The Officejet Pro 9025e works fine without all of the nonsense.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2023 06:48AM by Robert M.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: May 27, 2023 07:27AM
So this printer still burns ink regularly like other inkjets?

3rd party $35 toner cartridges last me over a year on the old Brother laser AIO.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 27, 2023 08:44AM
Bill,

Yups. All inkjet printers seems to burn a little bit of ink during the maintenance process. That's in additional to normal ink usage. It's a normal part of using the printer. FWIW, you can't compare ink usage on a color inkjet printer to toner usage on a black and white laser printer. They are different beasts. Now, color inkjet to color laser or black and white only inkjet to black and white laser? That is a more realistic comparison.

I'd love to get a year out of a single toner cartridge for my old brother laser printers. Can't. Print way too much to get a year out of it. 'course, some $35 third party cartridge last longer than others. I find the actual amount of toner in 3rd party cartridges can vary tremendously, regardless of what is listed in the description of the toner provider.

Robert
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 27, 2023 09:15AM
....garbages are flooded with inkjet printers.....people buy it cheap with free cartridges, then dump then because the refills can get expensive.....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: jonny
Date: May 28, 2023 09:53AM
couch...couch...Ecotank...cough
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: May 28, 2023 11:16AM
But wait! There's more:

[arstechnica.com]

I hope that soon, Robert M will be HP's sole customer.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 28, 2023 11:21AM
Hi everyone,

Seriously. Enough with the insulting posts. If you don't like what HP is doing - and I don't like it either - then say so but do it without the insults. They are unnecessary and take away from forum. That I happen to have had generally good experiences with HP products and have supported them over the years doesn't mean I should be insulted for it.

Robert
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: gadje
Date: May 28, 2023 01:05PM
Quote
Robert M
Hi everyone,

Seriously. Enough with the insulting posts. If you don't like what HP is doing - and I don't like it either - then say so but do it without the insults. They are unnecessary and take away from forum. That I happen to have had generally good experiences with HP products and have supported them over the years doesn't mean I should be insulted for it.

Robert

This is correct and I once again apologize for the earlier comment.

But, I also think most of these posts were not meant as an insult to you, Robert M. You like their printers, fine, I RESPECT that.

Look at these posts as a harmless joke. Don't take it personal.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: gadje
Date: May 28, 2023 01:14PM
Why do they show different prices? which one is the correct one?


[instantink.hpconnected.com]

[www.hp.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2023 01:16PM by gadje.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: May 28, 2023 09:50PM
If one takes the subscription, they're hands are tied by HP's EULA

So it looks to me like Robert is saying it's his experience is the other side of this of this coin is don't take the bait and it's business as usual.

That's a helpful bit of info and what I was thinking when reading what Ti posted.

I think there would be big trouble for HP if they tried all that without someone carelessly agreeing to EULA.






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And hope is a lousy defense.

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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 29, 2023 08:21AM
RAM,

Exactly. Like everyone else, I don't like what HP is doing with the subscription nonsense. Not one bit. Definitely makes me leery of purchasing another HP printer in the future. However, it's a non-issue (for now) if you ignore that nonsense, install the printer software, use it and replace cartridges normally.

I put in "for now" because it wouldn't shock me if HP makes agreeing to some level of nonsense necessary for even normal configurations like mine. If HP does that, then I'm definitely switching to a different company for printers. Then again, I don't have to replace printers often. Even then, the last broke due it my own stupidity. Replaced the printer, then, eventually fixed the old one and put it into service again.

Robert
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: May 29, 2023 12:19PM
Quote
Robert M
RAM,

Exactly. Like everyone else, I don't like what HP is doing with the subscription nonsense. Not one bit. Definitely makes me leery of purchasing another HP printer in the future. However, it's a non-issue (for now) if you ignore that nonsense, install the printer software, use it and replace cartridges normally.

It's not a non-issue.

In the ordinary course of setting up a HP printer, the user can't simply install a driver anymore and while Airprint drivers often (but don't always) work, the printing system often will not select an Airprint driver by default for an HP printer anymore.

They coerce users to install their HP Smart software and other apps with the primary purpose of driving the user to set up an account.

And it's required to set up an account if you intend to use the scanner.

And they both hide prompts to sign up for their services in the new-account setup and push the "free" ink messages over and over again throughout the process.

The ordinary user is going to end up trapped by one or another of these things.

Just because you escaped once, it doesn't mean they won't find a way to trap you on your next printer, which could easily come locked-down from the factory or have a ticking clock that locks it after the return-period has expired.

And it doesn't mean that others will escape as you did.

"But I got away without harm and mine is great" is misleading praise.

You're doing the world a disservice by talking up HP in this context. They're acting villainously.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2023 12:24PM by Tiangou.
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Re: PSA: Don't buy HP inkjets...
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 29, 2023 04:38PM
Tiangou,

How many times must I say that I dislike immensely what HP is doing? Where have I talked them up and pushed buying one of their printers? I've done neither, so don't accuse me of doing so. It isn't cool. What I have done is relayed my actual experiences using a current model, which I think was important in the context of the thread.

Owners of _any_ computer product need to pay attention to what they are doing when installing it. I didn't install any of HP's software at first. Just signed into my existing account, the same account I've been using for years. I chose not to sign up for the extra services such as free ink during the software installation process. You don't _have_ to sign up for services to use the software and/or features of the printer (for now).

That said, you're right. A different user might get caught by HP's trap. We do not disagree on this at all. That's why I said I'd be switching to a different company for printers if HP pulls garbage where agreeing to the nonsense is unavoidable. It's why I said "for now" in my posts because HP could easily make services that can brick the device if you don't sign up for it or agree to it unavoidable.

FWIW, I can use the scanner of the 9025e with HP Smart or I can use the scanner built into it with Apple's Image Capture. I used it without installing any of HP's software for quite a while. Been there and done that.

Robert



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2023 12:13PM by Robert M.
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