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BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: chopper
Date: November 08, 2023 06:02PM



First responders in Franklin, Tenn., faced their first burning EV in September, a Nissan
Leaf that ignited while charging outside the car maker’s North America headquarters. They spent hours pouring 45,000 gallons of water on the car, compared with the 500 to 1,000 gallons that fires involving gasoline-powered vehicles usually need, Fire Marshal Andy King said.


The batteries contain flammable chemicals and can release their own oxygen as they burn, allowing EV fires to reignite hours or even days after they appear to be quenched. They also emit toxic fumes that Tom Miller, who teaches for the West Virginia University Fire Service Extension and the National Volunteer Fire Council, said “make hydrogen cyanide look like Pez.”
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 08, 2023 06:06PM
Rolling coal.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: November 08, 2023 06:29PM
this is a real concern, although not enough to stop or delay rolling out EV.

my guess is that there will be some sort of sticky substance that is developed just for this purpose, encapsulating the fire. but, who knows, I'm spitballing.

however, it may start to come with an added cost, as new FD equipment and subsequent training is $$$$.



Hurts like a bastid...
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: November 09, 2023 09:39AM
It's just cray-cray that these EV owners drive around in a vehicle with so much energy stored in a small space!

I would never do that!

This is sarcasm.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: kj
Date: November 09, 2023 10:16AM
We’ve been putting up with oil spills, etc., even wars over oil, so I would say it isn’t that big a deal to put up with this until battery tech and fire suppression tech take care of the problem.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: pqrst
Date: November 09, 2023 10:21AM
waiting out the fire is necessary because it is the combination of intense heat, tightly packed cells and the fact that the fire isn’t using atmospheric oxygen. it makes you wonder if ev fires in an apartment complex underground parking lot wouldn’t be a big problem , bigger then a gas engine event.
[www.firerescue1.com]
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: pqrst
Date: November 09, 2023 10:28AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
this is a real concern, although not enough to stop or delay rolling out EV.

my guess is that there will be some sort of sticky substance that is developed just for this purpose, encapsulating the fire. but, who knows, I'm spitballing.

however, it may start to come with an added cost, as new FD equipment and subsequent training is $$$$.
the fire fighting stuff would have to be introduced into the battery case itself. coating the outside wouldn’t help since the lithium ion cell fire is self contained for an oxidizer. loweriing the tenperature of the burning cell by hindreds of degrees is the only way to stop the thermal effect. sounds like a tough problem overall.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2023 10:29AM by pqrst.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: November 09, 2023 12:44PM
Quote
Lux Interior
It's just cray-cray that these EV owners drive around in a vehicle with so much energy stored in a small space!

I would never do that!

This is sarcasm.

And yet there's a gas tank in every ICE vehicle that has about 10x the energy and catches on fire with 10x the frequency of EVs (based on data available several years ago)



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: Numo
Date: November 09, 2023 01:10PM
Isn’t it an old wives trick to use baking soda to put out EV fires?
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 09, 2023 02:57PM
Quote
Numo
Isn’t it an old wives trick to use baking soda to put out EV fires?

I just asked my old wife and she said, “I’ve never had to put out an EV fire.”



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: November 09, 2023 04:18PM
Doesn't Lux own an eV?






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: November 09, 2023 04:22PM
A Rivian, it seems.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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SAVE THE WATER!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: November 09, 2023 04:37PM
And yet there's a gas tank in every ICE vehicle that has about 10x the energy and catches on fire with 10x the frequency of EVs


And yet there are ways to extinguish such fires before they take out whole structures, not that that hasn't/doesn't happen.

It's good that the probability of an eV fire is much lower than an ICEicle, it would be better if there were a way of extinguishing an eV fire as quickly.

I see them as being reasonably safe, but also understand why somebody might be concerned it's a tragedy waiting to happen.

It's rare enough on commercial planes that we board with little or no thought of being skyjacked or dying in a crash, regardless of cause.

But that took time for a lot of people to accept the safety record, and the same apples to eVs.

And a stat about which I know nothing - how many spontaneous fires have occurred in ICEicles compare to eVs?

This is merely a point of curiosity for me, not ammunition for some eV vs ICEicale rant, given the comparatively low incidence of eV fires in general.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2023 04:38PM by RAMd®d.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: hal
Date: November 09, 2023 04:52PM
the first time one burned here in Sacramento, it made news. They said the amount of water used to put it out could have filled 5 swimming pools.
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: Harbourmaster
Date: November 09, 2023 05:28PM
Ever seen a vintage VW engine melting the pavement as it burns? Lots of folks were very concerned about it but after millions of VW’s had rolled off the assembly lines virtually no one gave it a thought… until ya saw one burning down.



Aloha, Ken


“I have developed significant attachments to several members even though I wouldn't recognize them if I sat next to one on a park bench. I'm often tempted when in an airport to walk around, hollering "The Løpe", to see if anyone other than the Homeland Security people will acknowledge me. ” - The Løpe

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us." Justice Robert Jackson
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: November 09, 2023 06:00PM
Quote
Lux Interior
It's just cray-cray that these EV owners drive around in a vehicle with so much energy stored in a small space!

I would never do that!

This is sarcasm.

Two words…

Ford Pinto
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: PeterW
Date: November 09, 2023 06:11PM
Another word …

Sarcasm
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Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: November 09, 2023 06:50PM
FTW!






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: BLAME ELON WHEN THINKING OF THE WATER
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: November 09, 2023 07:41PM
the "it's the same, but different" arguments seem a bit facile, naive and, well, dumb. one thing is not like the other.

I'm 100% certain that, in the not distant future, fire suppression is either going to be reflected in an EV car insurance bill or it's going to be reflected in a property tax bill. fire departments are not going to be hanging out for 6 hours at a car fire, and pumping thousands upon thousands of gallons of water upon said fire. towns and cities do not have the funds for that.



Hurts like a bastid...
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