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delayed Social Security
Posted by: Fritz
Date: November 30, 2023 11:37AM
anyone do this or plan on doing this?
reason to or not?



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What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: gadje
Date: November 30, 2023 11:58AM
Here is an article and a table about it.

[smartasset.com]

My concern is what happens to those of us who paid a lot into SS and the funds may not be there when we retire. I feel like we are being cheated.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 30, 2023 12:13PM
Complicated, and taking it as late as possible is not always the best for maximizing total dollars collected. Also, for couples, when one dies the other gets the larger of the two benefits.

Life expectancy is a factor. Somewhere in the mid 70s most people reach a crossing point where taking it later is better than taking it early. Take it early if you have health issues or a family history such that you are likely to expire near or before that crossing date. Even a little after the crossing date won't make much difference. Push into your 80s, and you'd have been better off waiting.

The online calculator I tried, with average health and nearly equal expected benefits for both spouses, suggested the one expected to live longer take the benefit right away at 62, and the other wait as long as possible. When the shorter-lived spouse dies, the longer-lived spouse will collect the larger benefit of the now-deceased spouse who waited.

That's just one scenario. YMMV.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2023 12:16PM by Acer.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: mattkime
Date: November 30, 2023 12:25PM
How long do you plan to live?
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Mike Sellers
Date: November 30, 2023 12:26PM
Assuming you'll still want to work part time, taking it before you hit your full retirement age limits the amount you can earn to around $21k before it impacts your benefit. After full retirement age, you can still earn as much as you like. I hit my full retirement age next March so I plan to start collecting, regardless of whether I keep working or not. Yes, I could get more if I wait until 70, but my wife and I want to enjoy life and travel, so waiting isn't worth it to us.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Fritz
Date: November 30, 2023 12:31PM
I've hit full and I'd like to work.
Till the end of all time.
Familial LE is in my favor.
Thanks for the link.



!#$@@$#!

What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2023 12:32PM by Fritz.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: November 30, 2023 12:38PM
Quote
mattkime
How long do you plan to live?
This is the key. Because the SS death benefit is still, what, $200 ? which won't even pay for cremation.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Black
Date: November 30, 2023 12:52PM
I have believed SS would be gone by the time I ever needed it for decades. It's almost starting to look like it still may be around....
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Michael
Date: November 30, 2023 01:26PM
We took ours right at full retirement age for me and a year before full retirement age for my wife. We did it because we are gradually converting our IRA's to Roth IRA's and using the SS money to pay the taxes on the conversion. That was worth taking it earlier than the 70 year old age that is often suggested.

There are other scenarios that also make the typical advice to take it at 70 less reasonable. MIke Sellers' reason concerning travel and enjoying life is a perfect example.

If you want to maximize your SS, you might either read Kotlikoff's, "Get What's Yours: The Secrets to Maxing Your Social Security" or subscribe to the associated website, "MaximizeMySocialSecurity" for a year

[www.amazon.com]

[maximizemysocialsecurity.com]
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Fritz
Date: November 30, 2023 01:47PM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
mattkime
How long do you plan to live?
This is the key. Because the SS death benefit is still, what, $200 ? which won't even pay for cremation.

won't even pay for the cardboard box.
thanks for the book link.



!#$@@$#!

What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2023 01:50PM by Fritz.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 30, 2023 01:51PM
My wife and I have considered SS to be a tax we pay now, and if we get ANYTHING when we retire, it’ll be a bonus.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 30, 2023 01:57PM
Y'all so gloomy. If you think old people vote now, it will pale in comparison to their level of political participation after the first cut appears in the SS check.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Michael
Date: November 30, 2023 02:14PM
Quote
Acer
Y'all so gloomy. If you think old people vote now, it will pale in comparison to their level of political participation after the first cut appears in the SS check.

That is so true. The politicians will "fix" SS/Medicare (but who knows about Medicaid...) at the last minute. Their personal survival will trump everything else. And us old geezers will absolutely vote them out of office.

Here's an interesting story about the last save of SS in 1983. And, in particular, a Senate vote of 96-0 against a Reagan proposal to cut benefits to those who took early retirement/SS at age 62. It also looks at the upcoming SS problem: [www.vox.com]
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: November 30, 2023 02:30PM
I was going to put off taking SS another year, but my tax guy pointed out that I would be passing up a lot more mpney than I'd get by waiting. I think waiting another year would have maybe gotten me another $100 per month. I didn't want to stop working, but I wanted to work less.



My life goes smoothly and in regular intervals
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: mattkime
Date: November 30, 2023 02:43PM
I'm convinced they're trying to convince us that SS is dead so they can kill it without blame. Its not without problems but its very fixable.



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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: November 30, 2023 03:22PM
Thanks for the book link, Michael. That looks just like what I need.

I retired from my day job at 49, (30 and out for our GM Facility) and chose to wait to sign up for SS. GM gives a supplement to our pensions to make up for SS until you turn 62. Most of the folks I worked with signed up for SS at 62 when the supplement stops. I decided to wait until the next level, which I believe is 66 and 8 months.

I'm 65 and counting. I truly hope I live to a ripe old age. I want to get back at least what i've paid in over the years.

And to the folks who are worried SS will run out. I've heard this same thing for my entire life and now that I'm eligible, it's still here and looks to be for a long time.



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: numbered
Date: November 30, 2023 03:41PM
fwiw, I believe benefits increase 8% for each full year past retirement age until age 70. (There is no monthly increment.) The curves cross around 80 depending on your birth year and spousal benefit. Some advisors argue that 8% is pretty good "return"....

But as others have argued, it comes down to life expectancy. The government actuaries have priced this in to the 8%. And they know their business.

Personal insights about life expectancy, feelings about physical abilities, and preferences about the time value of money make each person's choice unique.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Spock
Date: November 30, 2023 04:20PM
Quote
Fritz
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
mattkime
How long do you plan to live?
This is the key. Because the SS death benefit is still, what, $200 ? which won't even pay for cremation.

won't even pay for the cardboard box.
thanks for the book link.

Time to take up woodworking. wink smiley



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: davester
Date: November 30, 2023 04:55PM
The doomsaying about SS running out is nothing but horse manure shoveled by certain politicians who want to deep-six SS so they can give even more tax breaks and credits to billionaires. As to the original question, it is a very individual decision that must be based on your overall health, future tax brackets after RMDs kick in, and need for money at the beginning of retirement. I didn't retire until I was past full retirement age (66) but then took SS before reaching 70 because the break-even point where it would make more sense to wait until 70 was way out there in my mid-80s. I figured that I am more likely to need the money now (for world travel, toys, fun, etc) than I will in my late-80s which is why I took it before 70.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: mattkime
Date: November 30, 2023 05:37PM
Quote
davester
I figured that I am more likely to need the money now (for world travel, toys, fun, etc) than I will in my late-80s which is why I took it before 70.

Thats a good point. While quite a few are kicking around at that age, most have slowed down considerably.



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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: richorlin
Date: November 30, 2023 06:50PM
Kotlikoff book is good, but seven years out of date. There is a great deal of current info out there, but you have to look for it. His website has current info but costs $.
I hit mandatory retirement with the Foreign Service at 65, eleven years ago. I decided to wait to collect SS at 70 based on several factors: 1. I had a federal pension that started the month after I retired. 2. My wife continued to work with a pretty good federal salary.
The primary thinking that helped me decide, which may help you and others, is not worrying about the total amount of money you will collect by the time you die, but the amount you collect each month. Who cares how much you have collected in full? You’re dead. You get no prize for collecting more than the next guy and the bigger your monthly check is, the more your surviving spouse will get if it’s more than they are presently receiving.

The point is, if you have income, be-it salary, pension or whatever, the longer you can wait for the bigger payout at seventy. Each year you wait, your benefit increases by 8%, compounded.
There are a lot of factors you must consider, and it might be worthwhile to consult an advisor, Kotlikoff or someone else to help you make an intelligent decision.
Also, In spite of all the “chicken-littles”, Social Security is NOT going away.

I hope this helps in your decision making.
PS: by the way, I believe the break-even point for early or delayed SS depends on several factors. Here is a good explanation from AARP



richorlin
Check out DRAWINGMYLIFE.COM
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2023 07:00PM by richorlin.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: A-Polly
Date: November 30, 2023 07:46PM
Quote
richorlin
....The primary thinking that helped me decide, which may help you and others, is not worrying about the total amount of money you will collect by the time you die, but the amount you collect each month....
agree smiley I waited until 70, mostly because I'm still working but not full-time and have quite a bit of control over when I work, which makes it easier. The extra check has helped my bank account prepare for some of the rehab my house needs. I will say that the Social Security folks who called me after I applied were extremely helpful and pleasant to deal with!

My brother is younger and wanted to keep working but got laid off unexpectedly. He became so frustrated trying to navigate the Florida not-unemployment* system to get the paltry check for a few months, he decided to go ahead and get Social Security without waiting to max out his benefit.

*Seriously, I did not realize that in this state we no longer have an "unemployment" office. Florida has only "Reemployment" and they specifically state that it doesn't matter what the Federal govt. calls it. And you can't apply in person or even verify your identity to a human (at least in the county where my brother lives). The "Reemployment Office" had staff but could do nothing, not even look at my brother's ID (for that one must use a smartphone to apply to ID.me — a third-party site that immediately started sending him lots of Groupon-type shopping offers, so someone made lots of money selling this system to all the govt. agencies). You can use a computer at the Reemployment office, though, if you make an appointment. I don't know if that must be done online or not.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 30, 2023 08:19PM
Quote
numbered
But as others have argued, it comes down to life expectancy. The government actuaries have priced this in to the 8%. And they know their business.

Personal insights about life expectancy, feelings about physical abilities, and preferences about the time value of money make each person's choice unique.

This ^ This ^ This ^

First thing before you retire, have zero debts.

The company where I worked went out of business during the Great Recession and I could not find anyone who would hire my 58 y.o. carcass. So I maxed out my unemployment, then my wife supported us until I turned 62 and I signed up for SS. I never worked very much again. My wife retired at 68 from her cushy professorship and began to collect based on my benefit because she was born before 1/1/54. We supplemented (big time) from her retirement cash and some equities. She turns 70 in 10 days and she just recently signed up to begin receiving benefits based on her earnings. I will even get a $28 boost based on her earnings! Our daughter gets SSDI and will more than double her benefit moving from my SS to my wife’s. Daughter was doing fine so we were not motivated to have my wife begin SS in order to help daughter.

We plan to spend like crazy until all we have left is SS to die on. So far we are on track. Wife can also get a small annuity (~$1500/month) from her TIAA retirement but we may leave that money untouched to leave to our ner’er-do-well heirs. Then again, maybe not.

You really do need advice from a SS expert if you can find one.

Here is a 14 minute video from an insurance/annuity agent that I thought made some good points:

[www.youtube.com]



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: November 30, 2023 08:41PM
I'm just glad I'm drawing Railroad Retirement instead of SS.



Grateful11
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 30, 2023 10:03PM
Quote
Grateful11
I'm just glad I'm drawing Railroad Retirement instead of SS.

I assume it’s a lot more than SS? Is there a railroad health plan for retirees or do you use Medicare?



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Fritz
Date: November 30, 2023 10:25PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
davester
I figured that I am more likely to need the money now (for world travel, toys, fun, etc) than I will in my late-80s which is why I took it before 70.

Thats a good point. While quite a few are kicking around at that age, most have slowed down considerably.

willie nelson just turned 90



!#$@@$#!

What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 30, 2023 10:29PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
davester
I figured that I am more likely to need the money now (for world travel, toys, fun, etc) than I will in my late-80s which is why I took it before 70.

Thats a good point. While quite a few are kicking around at that age, most have slowed down considerably.


"Ty Bernicke's Reality Retirement Planning: A New Paradigm for an Old Science describes extensive research showing that most people see significant reductions in spending with age (not related to reduced assets or income). If selected, this option will reduce your inflation-adjusted yearly spending by 2-3% per year starting at age 56, and then stabilizing at age 76 to keep up with inflation. You should read his article for details if you plan to use this option." Summary from FireCalc. Link to PDF of article: [www.i-orp.com]
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 01, 2023 12:09AM
Quote
Speedy
Wife can also get a small annuity (~$1500/month) from her TIAA retirement but we may leave that money untouched to leave to our ner’er-do-well heirs. Then again, maybe not.

You really do need advice from a SS expert if you can find one.

Here is a 14 minute video from an insurance/annuity agent that I thought made some good points:

[www.youtube.com]

FWIW annuities offer safety at a pretty significant cost. They were much more popular before broad market indexes became a thing. Generally speaking, they're just not considered to be a very good deal.

I listen to the first minute or two. Might return to it but I'm not sure how much I want to listen to someone who has something to sell.



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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 01, 2023 06:04AM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
Speedy
Wife can also get a small annuity (~$1500/month) from her TIAA retirement but we may leave that money untouched to leave to our ner’er-do-well heirs. Then again, maybe not.

You really do need advice from a SS expert if you can find one.

Here is a 14 minute video from an insurance/annuity agent that I thought made some good points:

[www.youtube.com]

FWIW annuities offer safety at a pretty significant cost. They were much more popular before broad market indexes became a thing. Generally speaking, they're just not considered to be a very good deal.

I listen to the first minute or two. Might return to it but I'm not sure how much I want to listen to someone who has something to sell.

The point he was making in the video is that you can’t time the annuity market and that actuaries, like those who work for SS, are always excellent at predicting death.

I agree about indexes and any money we leave to our heirs will hopefully come from an ETF, but at a certain age safety and certainty is more important than anything. The plan through my wife’s former employer pretty much locks us into TIAA’s products (so said an independent financial advisor). It would take us six years to move her money out of their fixed rate product (basically a CD) into their equities products but they will sell you an annuity right now with the money from the fixed rate product. Six years is half a lifetime for us.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 01, 2023 07:29AM
Quote
Speedy
It would take us six years to move her money out of their fixed rate product (basically a CD) into their equities products but they will sell you an annuity right now with the money from the fixed rate product. Six years is half a lifetime for us.

IMO thats some sketchy @#$%& designed to push you to an annuity. There's a reason why one is made easier than another.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2023 07:30AM by mattkime.
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Fritz
Date: December 01, 2023 12:25PM
@gadje - thanks for the smart asset link. Hadn't heard of it and there is some good reading and info.



!#$@@$#!

What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: December 01, 2023 05:31PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
Grateful11
I'm just glad I'm drawing Railroad Retirement instead of SS.

I assume it’s a lot more than SS? Is there a railroad health plan for retirees or do you use Medicare?

Yes it's about 60-75% more than SS. Management pays into it too. There's some of the upper management drawing $10's of thousands per month. I know a few people that are double dipping, both worked for the railroad and each draws their retirement plus about 30-40% of their spouses retirement. They put a cutoff date on that you had to hire in before a certain date to be able to double dip.

There is an insurance plan through the railroad that you can use until you turn 65. Then at 65 you're on Medicare like most others.

Railroad Retirement was setup and ran properly unlike SS. We paid in almost triple into the pension plan and it was invested wisely by RRB. Numerous presidents and representatives have tried their best to abolish RR so they can shore up SS with the abundance of money that's in RR. Every time their met with basically, "hey it's working for them let's leave it alone".

Had a relative to say, "How did the railroad get their own retirement plan?" To which I said, "maybe it was set when the state setup yours for the state education system LOL."



Grateful11
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Re: delayed Social Security
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 01, 2023 07:24PM
Quote
Grateful11
Quote
Speedy
Quote
Grateful11
I'm just glad I'm drawing Railroad Retirement instead of SS.

I assume it’s a lot more than SS? Is there a railroad health plan for retirees or do you use Medicare?

Yes it's about 60-75% more than SS. Management pays into it too. There's some of the upper management drawing $10's of thousands per month. I know a few people that are double dipping, both worked for the railroad and each draws their retirement plus about 30-40% of their spouses retirement. They put a cutoff date on that you had to hire in before a certain date to be able to double dip.

There is an insurance plan through the railroad that you can use until you turn 65. Then at 65 you're on Medicare like most others.

Railroad Retirement was setup and ran properly unlike SS. We paid in almost triple into the pension plan and it was invested wisely by RRB. Numerous presidents and representatives have tried their best to abolish RR so they can shore up SS with the abundance of money that's in RR. Every time their met with basically, "hey it's working for them let's leave it alone".

Had a relative to say, "How did the railroad get their own retirement plan?" To which I said, "maybe it was set when the state setup yours for the state education system LOL."

Grateful11, thanks!



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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