Got a pretty big estimate on some repairs on my Volvo.

Estimate of repairs has a big number but no way to know what the rate is.

Owner does not want to disclose this to me.


This cant be legal can it? Why don't they just print the labor rate on the estimate instead of Labor: $847 Parts $1200 ..

Suggestions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2024 06:07PM by chopper.

Check with your consumer affairs office and/or your insurance agent. They may have some insight into this.

Tell them if they want to close the deal they don’t get the work?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2024 07:51PM by anonymouse1.

The rate is flexible based on how big they think your wallet is.

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Athens, OH

The rate is irrelevant IMHO. I have seen the rate listed at #130 per hour but I know they can do that job in 20 min.

I was curious, so I checked the local law...

Is the labor rate included in the estimate?

No, the labor rate is not included in either the estimate or the invoice.
However, brake and/or lamp stations must post conspicuously a list
of prices for their services as either a fixed fee or an hourly rate on
a time-and-material basis. Additionally, Smog Check stations must
post conspicuously a list of prices for their services and an hourly
labor rate for repairs.

So they have to break down the estimated labor, but not the hourly rate in CA.

Pretty sure I've seen rates posted at places I've been to.

The standards for auto repair businesses are shockingly low despite a history of shady behavior.

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go elsewhere.

just because it isn't required by law to disclose, they could tell you to foster a good business relationship. Sounds like that isn't a priority.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2024 07:42PM by Smote.

Most shops also go by the timebook rather than actual work time. The timebook will tell a mechanic that a certain job will take X hrs. If the mechanic finishes in less time, then the hourly rate goes up but the total remains the same.

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Finding an honest mechanic is harder than getting a good physician in many places.

If they do not want to share an estimate on how long they expect to take to solve your problem, I think I would go elsewhere if I could.

My sister is divorced from a foreign automobile mechanic. In Minnesota, as a matter of fact. They are still friends. As she said, you can always find another husband but it's hard to find a good car mechanic.

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There is no requirement to post or provide an hourly rate or a number of hours to do a job. That is just a flat rate quote, exists in almost every business.

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C(-)ris
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Ombligo
Most shops also go by the timebook rather than actual work time. The timebook will tell a mechanic that a certain job will take X hrs. If the mechanic finishes in less time, then the hourly rate goes up but the total remains the same.

Well wouldn't the missing portion of how they come up with the bill BE THE HOURLY RATE THEY CHARGE?

How do they estimate if they don't disclose their hourly rate?

ask if they use the "book time" to do the job. if they list parts, and they will tell you what the book-hours are, you can deduct parts to find out their rate.

but, if you are just hoping for "transparency," good luck.

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Quote
C(-)ris
There is no requirement to post or provide an hourly rate or a number of hours to do a job. That is just a flat rate quote, exists in almost every business.

Even if it's a book rate job, most shops I've been in usually have the hourly shop rate posted somewhere. Then again, I'm not in Minnesota.

If you really need to know, ask them which labor guide they use - Alldata, Mitchell are the main ones. Go to the library, look up the job(s), total the hours, divide into $847, then you’ll have the hourly rate.

As gadje said, it really is immaterial. If they are quoting flat rate, then what does it matter?

What repairs are they quoting on?

Here in NY, labor rate must be posted, but most jobs are flat rate (in my shop, anyway…)

The rate is irrelevant IMHO. I have seen the rate listed at #130 per hour but I know they can do that job in 20 min.


That 20min is irrelevant.

The actual time it takes to do the job is irrelevant.

Almost every shop will charge 'flat rate' as mentioned previously.


you can always find another husband but it's hard to find a good car mechanic.


LOL, that's great.

I had a great couple of mechs whom I trusted and were reasonable.

They finally closed up shop for some reason.

I'll need some work and done and I don't know if I can trust the new owners, and am concerned, to put it mildly, on the cost of having anything done.

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In PA the rate is on the wall, at least at mechanics that do state inspections, which is most of them.
Used to be the dealers had the biggest hourly rates, but now the franchise brake and muffler shops are just as expensive. And they all use that book.

I am lucky in that i have an old-school mechanic charges for time worked, not the book. But you have to book ahead, or be willing to wait a few days to get your car back. So for emergencies I suck it up and go to the franchise guys cause they'll get it done by closing.

Ask the mechanic what he makes per hour. No doubt the various mechanics in a non-union shop make different wages.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Quote
chopper
Got a pretty big estimate on some repairs on my Volvo.

Estimate of repairs has a big number but no way to know what the rate is.

Owner does not want to disclose this to me.

...

Suggestions

For big expenses, the rule of thumb is to always get at least three quotes where possible.

Go elsewhere for a competitive quote and ask that labor be included on the quote at the second place.

...If the second place refuses to give you a quote that includes labor, it starts to look like a practice in your region or a cartel at work.

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I agree with all the suggestions to get second or third estimates. Your mechanic will probably go along with that idea. Can’t speak to Minnesota, but in my general experience. Labor is not usually the actual amount of time but is from a book that lists the time:cost that industry experience says the specific repair will take. So some procedures are parts cheap but labor expensive (bearings in the axle). The estimate book is kind of mysterious and I suspect mechanics don’t really open the can of worms that explaining would take. I feel ssme way about my dentist when I go in for a tiny tooth ache and it ends up being a full on replacement of tooth and implant. (Big gum issue). It is how much you trust your mechanic dentist. My two cents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2024 12:28AM by pqrst.

"$500! But it only took you 30 minutes to do the repair!"

"You're not paying me for the 30 minutes I took to do the job. You're paying me for the 30 years of experience that it took for me to do the job in 30 minutes."

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Lux Interior
"$500! But it only took you 30 minutes to do the repair!"

"You're not paying me for the 30 minutes I took to do the job. You're paying me for the 30 years of experience that it took for me to do the job in 30 minutes."

The book rate seems to be calibrated for the guy who has 30 minutes of experience.

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Acer

Quote
Lux Interior
"$500! But it only took you 30 minutes to do the repair!"

"You're not paying me for the 30 minutes I took to do the job. You're paying me for the 30 years of experience that it took for me to do the job in 30 minutes."

The book rate seems to be calibrated for the guy who has 30 minutes of experience.

There is more than one book rate as well. There is the warranty book rate the manufactures pay and the book rate for the repair. They sometimes vary greatly. The idea behind it is that a dealer shop does the repair often and their techs are trained specifically for those vehicles and can do it faster.


In states with emissions testing, yes, hourly rates for items related to emissions are required to be posted. But that only applies to the government mandated testing and any repairs related to emissions. They are free to use any rate they want on non-related items along with any amount of time they want to charge.


I have a quote for adding a sub-panel to my garage for around $1800. Flat rate for the project no breakdown on parts and labor. Called 3 electricans and every quote was the same format. They said if I want time and materials instead of flat rate they don't quote it ahead of time and I would just pay as they go. Went with the least expensive flat rate.

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C(-)ris
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C(-)ris
Went with the least expensive flat rate.

Did you come out ahead?

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archipirata
The rate is flexible based on how big they think your wallet is.

[www.youtube.com]

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It is what it is.

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mattkime

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C(-)ris
Went with the least expensive flat rate.

Did you come out ahead?

They didn't start yet....too cold. Rescheduled for next Monday.

The tricky part is they need to pull permits, pay the inspector fee, etc. I know what the BOM should be around $800-$900 in parts. That leaves them around $800 in labor which is probably less than 8 hours. I believe they have to go to city hall to pull the permit and draw up the paperwork, that will probably take someone an hour. If they bring 2 people that is 4 hours from start to finish which sounds about right.

If it wasn't for the city requiring a certified electrician I would have done it all myself.

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C(-)ris
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Quote
C(-)ris

Quote
mattkime

Quote
C(-)ris
Went with the least expensive flat rate.

Did you come out ahead?

They didn't start yet....too cold. Rescheduled for next Monday.

The tricky part is they need to pull permits, pay the inspector fee, etc. I know what the BOM should be around $800-$900 in parts. That leaves them around $800 in labor which is probably less than 8 hours. I believe they have to go to city hall to pull the permit and draw up the paperwork, that will probably take someone an hour. If they bring 2 people that is 4 hours from start to finish which sounds about right.

If it wasn't for the city requiring a certified electrician I would have done it all myself.

Most permitting is done online nowadays.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.