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Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: chopper
Date: February 23, 2024 05:38PM
Reuters story

Mercedes-Benz on Thursday delayed its electrification goal by five years and assured investors it would keep sprucing up its combustion engine models, becoming the latest carmaker to flag a weaker-than-expected appetite for battery-powered cars.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 23, 2024 06:49PM
The company now expects sales of electrified vehicles, including hybrids, to account for up to 50% of the total by 2030.

——

battery-powered cars currently making up just 11% of total sales, and 19% including hybrids.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 23, 2024 06:56PM
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 23, 2024 06:56PM
This is all an excuse because they can't get their act together and produce enough batteries. It's what I've been saying for years now, they are starting way late on a race began years ago by Tesla. As I said then, what did legacy auto think, that they can just enter it and catch up any time they wanted too? What a bunch of idiots!
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 23, 2024 07:00PM
Quote
Steve G.
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.

This is kinda a myth. Strictly speaking yes, if you're talking about apartment dwellers and those with street side parking. But the residential auto market is FAR from being saturated, and EV makers would be struggling for years to keep up with their demand. But thanks to FUD, and EV makers lack of advertising to counter it, we have capacity out pacing demand, and so manufacturer's have to throttle back.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: February 23, 2024 07:28PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
This is all an excuse because they can't get their act together and produce enough batteries. It's what I've been saying for years now, they are starting way late on a race began years ago by Tesla. As I said then, what did legacy auto think, that they can just enter it and catch up any time they wanted too? What a bunch of idiots!

agree smiley Plus if you don't qualify for the $7,500 Fed tax credit, then they probably hesitate more.

Dave



Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Harbourmaster
Date: February 23, 2024 07:43PM
I'm in no rush to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a new electric vehicle when the old ICE vehicles I have are perfectly serviceable, and will be for a loooong time to come.



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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 23, 2024 07:52PM
Quote
Harbourmaster
I'm in no rush to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a new electric vehicle when the old ICE vehicles I have are perfectly serviceable, and will be for a loooong time to come.

Nor should you, unless the math makes sense, or money isn’t an issue. We have two ICE vehicles that see about 2000 miles each, annually. What’s more, they have sentimental value to us, and are in tip top condition. It would make zero sense for us to replace them. But people like us are not what’s driving the new car market. It’s people who need a new car that are. And for a lot of them an EV makes more sense than an ICE. Unfortunately they don’t realize it because they’ve been led to believe the wrong things about EVs.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: jonny
Date: February 23, 2024 08:14PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
Harbourmaster
I'm in no rush to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a new electric vehicle when the old ICE vehicles I have are perfectly serviceable, and will be for a loooong time to come.

Nor should you, unless the math makes sense, or money isn’t an issue. We have two ICE vehicles that see about 2000 miles each, annually. What’s more, they have sentimental value to us, and are in tip top condition. It would make zero sense for us to replace them. But people like us are not what’s driving the new car market. It’s people who need a new car that are. And for a lot of them an EV makes more sense than an ICE. Unfortunately they don’t realize it because they’ve been led to believe the wrong things about EVs.

Yep.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 23, 2024 08:27PM
GM is definitely living the 'batteries are EASY' consequence.

Lithium keeps dropping in price, which will help overall.

We are still in the awkward, teenage years. Not that many charging stations, not all cars are using the same connector, and some of the software totally sucks (I'm looking at you, GM).

Some are having trouble making safe batteries (LG for GM and the older Bolt).

Kia seems to be doing ok tho.

[insideevs.com])
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 23, 2024 08:42PM
Quote
DinerDave
Quote
Carnos Jax
This is all an excuse because they can't get their act together and produce enough batteries. It's what I've been saying for years now, they are starting way late on a race began years ago by Tesla. As I said then, what did legacy auto think, that they can just enter it and catch up any time they wanted too? What a bunch of idiots!

agree smiley Plus if you don't qualify for the $7,500 Fed tax credit, then they probably hesitate more.

Dave

They'll be alright. It'll all pan out eventually. This is still the Genesis of the technology. People that want a Benz are gonna get a Benz.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: February 23, 2024 10:27PM
Quote
Steve G.
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.

The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

What the public should be leery about is battery life/warranty and what those costs look like to get a new battery or to refurb a battery with issues.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 23, 2024 10:27PM
My 2013 and 2014 PHEVs are going strong!

We are vacationing and visiting family in Mexico City. I installed what I needed in order to recharge my car a few years ago. The 2014’s guessometer indicates 62 kms and the only time the gasoline generator has ran since we arrived in the city Jan. 14 was when I took the 2014 for its required pollution test. Today the air pollution was so bad the government announced a mandatory stoppage of a bunch of cars from traveling in the city but not mine.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: kj
Date: February 23, 2024 10:51PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Steve G.
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.

The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

What the public should be leery about is battery life/warranty and what those costs look like to get a new battery or to refurb a battery with issues.

I'm less worried about battery life than I used to be. I have a 2015 Fiat, and the batteries are still going strong. That's 9 yrs. A company that does batteries for several EVs and hybrids just began selling batteries with brand new cells (but in the same pack) for 7500. That's a fair amount of money, but there are a lot of repairs for ICE cars that cost that much nowadays, so it's not unreasonable. I expect our Tesla batteries will be at least as good. The battery is warranted 10yrs., and that doesn't mean at all it's likely to be useless by then.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 23, 2024 10:54PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Steve G.
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.

The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

What the public should be leery about is battery life/warranty and what those costs look like to get a new battery or to refurb a battery with issues.

Half the people live in rentals. They all have cars. We have a ways to go, along with the other issues you mention. You describe how people scheme to make ev's effortless for themselves. That's cool. With a regular car, you don't have to scheme. You just get in and go. Not even a fragment of thought has to be applied to that scenario other than parking the beast. The empty light can be on and you don't have to worry at all. Just gas it up.

That's the gap that needs to be filled in. It will be soon enough.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: kj
Date: February 23, 2024 10:58PM
Quote
Speedy
My 2013 and 2014 PHEVs are going strong!

We are vacationing and visiting family in Mexico City. I installed what I needed in order to recharge my car a few years ago. The 2014’s guessometer indicates 62 kms and the only time the gasoline generator has ran since we arrived in the city Jan. 14 was when I took the 2014 for its required pollution test. Today the air pollution was so bad the government announced a mandatory stoppage of a bunch of cars from traveling in the city but not mine.

Do those have Lithium batteries? Our Prius had NiMH, which have lasted 13yrs. so far, but that's a whole different thing.
Plus, does everyone in Mexico remove their emissions equipment, or do they just not require it there? Every single car we've noticed in Mexico has been crazy stinky.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 23, 2024 11:02PM
Quote
vision63
That's the gap that needs to be filled in. It will be soon enough.

No incentive to fill in that gap if residential consumers aren't even buying. The onus there is on the municipalities and builders/developers. And you the voter can change that, but not enough of you care to do so.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: kj
Date: February 23, 2024 11:02PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Steve G.
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.

The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

What the public should be leery about is battery life/warranty and what those costs look like to get a new battery or to refurb a battery with issues.

Half the people live in rentals. They all have cars. We have a ways to go, along with the other issues you mention. You describe how people scheme to make ev's effortless for themselves. That's cool. With a regular car, you don't have to scheme. You just get in and go. Not even a fragment of thought has to be applied to that scenario other than parking the beast. The empty light can be on and you don't have to worry at all. Just gas it up.

That's the gap that needs to be filled in. It will be soon enough.

38% of people live in apartments. Apartments can have chargers:

[www.sdgenews.com]

Also, I think people put just as much thinking into their gas cars, if not more, they just don't notice because they've always done it. After having EVs, I feel like I spent a lot more time messing with my ICE vehicles in one way or another. Plus a thousand other things I can't believe I put up with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2024 11:07PM by kj.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: February 23, 2024 11:15PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
Steve G.
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.

The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

What the public should be leery about is battery life/warranty and what those costs look like to get a new battery or to refurb a battery with issues.

Half the people live in rentals. They all have cars. We have a ways to go, along with the other issues you mention. You describe how people scheme to make ev's effortless for themselves. That's cool. With a regular car, you don't have to scheme. You just get in and go. Not even a fragment of thought has to be applied to that scenario other than parking the beast. The empty light can be on and you don't have to worry at all. Just gas it up.

That's the gap that needs to be filled in. It will be soon enough.

If you can charge at home the only scheming you need to do is remembering to plug in when you get home. IMO it is actually nicer to never have to stop at a gas station at all. It's like someone comes to my house and fills my tank to full every night and I can drive for 3 hours straight in a day before I have to worry. Not only am I saving money on gas I'm saving money on junk food I didn't need that I bought just because I was already at a Kwik Trip.

Rentals are another story, but not an unsolvable one. They can be installed in parking garages with assigned spaces or have charging stations in the outside lots with fob or app access to charge the electricity back. It's all doable in time and when tenants start asking for the chargers landlords will slowly start putting them in.

The only places where you are really going to have a hard time is people who park on the street because they don't have parking.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 23, 2024 11:23PM
If one thinks they don’t have to scheme with an ICE car when living in an apartment, they’ll probably think they’ve died and gone to heaven when they live in a house and own an EV.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 24, 2024 08:33AM
Quote
sekker
GM is definitely living the 'batteries are EASY' consequence.

Lithium keeps dropping in price, which will help overall.

We are still in the awkward, teenage years. Not that many charging stations, not all cars are using the same connector, and some of the software totally sucks (I'm looking at you, GM).

Some are having trouble making safe batteries (LG for GM and the older Bolt).

Kia seems to be doing ok tho.

[insideevs.com])

yep, and much better battery tech (solid state) will be available around the 2030 timeline.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: February 24, 2024 09:21AM
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 24, 2024 09:28AM
I bet your dishwasher doesn't use water, either.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Rolando
Date: February 24, 2024 10:09AM
Quote
C(-)ris
The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

I would have thought the split would be the other way. This is a huge market. Homeowners tend to have better credit and more disposable income.


[www.rubyhome.com]



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: February 24, 2024 10:33AM
Quote
ztirffritz
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

L2 and L1 charging requires 240 volt. L2 needs at least 16 Amps. It would require a significant electrical system to provide L2 charging at every parking meter. The electrical grids in major cities in the NE would need a lot of work to support this.

Quote
Rolando
Quote
C(-)ris
The only time you should need public charging stations is when you are traveling. With Tesla's network becoming open as soon as that transition is complete travel charging will be a non-issue for most people.

If you don't live in a place where you can plug in every night at home or plug in when you are at work to cover your daily driving then an EV is not for you. You will pay more for an EV than a gas if you use public charging most of the time.

I would have thought the split would be the other way. This is a huge market. Homeowners tend to have better credit and more disposable income.


[www.rubyhome.com]

Or are just making ends meet. For newer homes, charger installation may not be a big issue. For others though, it will require a new service drop, meter box and panel. If gas appliances are sunsetted, it's going to be a big challenge for some of these homeowners.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 24, 2024 10:44AM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
ztirffritz
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

L2 and L1 charging requires 240 volt. L2 needs at least 16 Amps. It would require a significant electrical system to provide L2 charging at every parking meter. The electrical grids in major cities in the NE would need a lot of work to support this.

while I agree that would be great (on street charging), I just don't see it happening in meaningful numbers for a very long time. Also, I would have to guess that standardization would have to occur for this to get past the basic public hurdles necessary for approval.

my prediction is that private lots will be providing this as incentives to get people to patronize their businesses - i.e., places where a prolonged stay would lead to significant charging time, like a restaurant, etc. Also, new public and private garages are more likely to occur.



Hurts like a bastid...
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: gadje
Date: February 24, 2024 10:50AM
L1 is 120V, at least my PHEV with 120V is level 1 I think.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 24, 2024 11:44AM
IMHO, with all the auto makers announcing they're adopting NACS, until THEY start installing NACS charging stations THEMSELVES, Tesla's charging stations will become overcrowded and less reliably convenient.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: February 24, 2024 12:11PM
Quote
ztirffritz
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

I like your thinking.

Dave



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Many have eaten here....

Few have died
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: February 24, 2024 12:34PM
Quote
mrbigstuff

L2 and L1 charging requires 240 volt.

my prediction is that private lots will be providing this as incentives to get people to patronize their businesses - i.e., places where a prolonged stay would lead to significant charging time, like a restaurant, etc. Also, new public and private garages are more likely to occur.

Yes, parking lots, restaurants and supermarkets.
My town has two chain supermarkets, Stop and Shop has Volta L2 chargers with a two hour time limit, and Big Y has a L2 through the Charge Point, setup so you get 1 hour free, then $3 per hour after that. More than enough time for me in a supermarket. They also have a fast charger there. The major intersection of Rt 91 and Rt 2 has three chain restaurants huddled around the traffic circle. Pre pandemic I spoke with management of all 3, stated that since you have highway signs stating your location off the exit, install L2 chargers in your lot and put that on your sign. I stated that anyone with a plug in or an EV would choice you over the others if they could top off while eating, they all acted like I had 2 heads. Granted, this was 5 years ago, maybe they have a clue now?

Dave



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Many have eaten here....

Few have died
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 24, 2024 12:44PM
Quote
DinerDave
Quote
ztirffritz
Everyone thinks of public charging as DC fast charging. That’s just for travel. We do need more L2 and even L1 charging. All new construction should include L1 or L2 suitable outlets in parking areas. Parking meters should be converted to L1 outlets. If people have cars, they have to be parked somewhere. They should all be charging while parked. It doesn’t need to be high power charging. 8A 120v is plenty if the car is parked for 8+ hours/day. Parking garages should just have an outlet for each parking space. It’s part of the cost of parking.

I like your thinking.

Dave

agree smiley



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: February 24, 2024 01:01PM
On-street parking with inductive charging pads would fix a lot of issues. Requirements for all apartments/condo/HOAs to add it, with federal grants (taken from oil company profits?) to pay for it.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 24, 2024 01:15PM
Quote
DinerDave
Quote
mrbigstuff

L2 and L1 charging requires 240 volt.

my prediction is that private lots will be providing this as incentives to get people to patronize their businesses - i.e., places where a prolonged stay would lead to significant charging time, like a restaurant, etc. Also, new public and private garages are more likely to occur.

Yes, parking lots, restaurants and supermarkets.
My town has two chain supermarkets, Stop and Shop has Volta L2 chargers with a two hour time limit, and Big Y has a L2 through the Charge Point, setup so you get 1 hour free, then $3 per hour after that. More than enough time for me in a supermarket. They also have a fast charger there. The major intersection of Rt 91 and Rt 2 has three chain restaurants huddled around the traffic circle. Pre pandemic I spoke with management of all 3, stated that since you have highway signs stating your location off the exit, install L2 chargers in your lot and put that on your sign. I stated that anyone with a plug in or an EV would choice you over the others if they could top off while eating, they all acted like I had 2 heads. Granted, this was 5 years ago, maybe they have a clue now?

Dave

yeah, that circle would be good.

if they install some at Hager's, once I have an EV I'll get the biggest maple softee I can get!



Hurts like a bastid...
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: chopper
Date: February 24, 2024 01:16PM
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: February 24, 2024 01:28PM
Fire marshals and insurance companies are leery about charging stations in parking garages. Regardless of fire frequency, EV fires require 10's of thousands of gallons of water and hours/days to extinguish. Fire departments aren't equipped to get equipment into a garage or the burning vehicle out of the garage. ICE car fires can be controlled by standard fire sprinklers and extinguishment can be accomplished with one or two fire hoses.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 24, 2024 02:09PM
Quote
kj
Quote
Speedy
My 2013 and 2014 PHEVs are going strong!

We are vacationing and visiting family in Mexico City. I installed what I needed in order to recharge my car a few years ago. The 2014’s guessometer indicates 62 kms and the only time the gasoline generator has ran since we arrived in the city Jan. 14 was when I took the 2014 for its required pollution test. Today the air pollution was so bad the government announced a mandatory stoppage of a bunch of cars from traveling in the city but not mine.

Do those have Lithium batteries? Our Prius had NiMH, which have lasted 13yrs. so far, but that's a whole different thing.
Plus, does everyone in Mexico remove their emissions equipment, or do they just not require it there? Every single car we've noticed in Mexico has been crazy stinky.

Yes, our 2013 Volt and 2014 ELR both have lithium batteries and both have lost range. In another 10 years I expect they will have only half the range they did when new.

——

Mexico City has very strict pollution control laws for cars and SUVs but not for trucks or motorcycles. Today I saw impounded vehicles being hauled away from a pollution checkpoint. Outside of the capital, not so much. My ELR’s inspection is only good for six months before it must be reinspected. I have a hologram stuck to the inside of my windshield with my plate number and the type of inspection passed. Not for private vehicles, but I saw a taxi get inspected which included a machine that tested rear shocks by pushing up about a foot on each rear wheel separately, sort of like what you might see in advertisements for off-road vehicles.

Today is day two of vehicle restrictions due to high air pollution because of a stationary high pressure system over the city. On day one all PHEVs and hybrid vehicles were exempt from any restrictions. Today PHEVs and hybrid vehicles with license plates ending in 0 or 1 were restricted based on increasing pollution levels from driving between 6am and 10pm. My plate has a 7 as its ending number so my vehicle will be restricted on Tuesday even though the only time my gasoline generator has run since we arrived on Jan. 14 was when it went through the pollution testing (my range guessometer is 62 kms which gets me wherever my wife wants to go). Last week we could see Volcano Popocatepetl (5th highest mountain in North America) steaming in the distance but not yesterday. Today I cannot see the neighborhoods built on the side of a nearby mountain (nor the mountain). If the high pressure system remains as is predicted I will not be able to see not-too-distant high rise buildings tomorrow and the day after barely to the end of the block.

On the bright side for this Minnesota snowbird is that the highs are in the 80’s without a cloud in the sky and thanks to the city’s 7,000 feet elevation the nights cool into the upper 40’s (the family house where we stay has no artificial heating or cooling, just open and close the window curtains as needed). BTW, people who can afford two newer hybrids make sure they don’t have plate numbers that would preclude them from not having at least one vehicle that can be driven during restrictions. Unfortunately most trucks and busses have no pollution inspection and they will soon be the primary source of vehicle pollution. Also unfortunate is that the state owned oil company has a stranglehold on politicians (sound similar to some USA states?) so there is zero incentive offered to buy an EV so they cost twice what an equivalent gas car costs (plenty of ICE production including for export to the USA, zero battery production, high import duties). There is a national election this summer and none of the presidential candidates offer anything that would meaningfully cut the level of pollution. In the summer the rainy season washes the polluted air because it rains for awhile most every afternoon or evening - the city, located in a valley, creates its own weather.

Mexico City is somewhat unique in that most personal vehicles will never once leave the city limits (neither of my brother-in-law’s two hybrids have left the city since he bought them over two years ago except one to attend his sister’s funeral about 140 miles away) because the city is the sole economic heart of the country with 15m+ inhabitants so EVs would be ideal, especially with the insane traffic levels. It also has nearby the cheapest wind power in the world generated at 2.5¢/kWh and the city mostly shuts down overnight resulting in excess generating capacity available for EV recharging.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2024 02:29PM by Speedy.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 24, 2024 02:15PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
On-street parking with inductive charging pads would fix a lot of issues. Requirements for all apartments/condo/HOAs to add it, with federal grants (taken from oil company profits?) to pay for it.

As previously posted, my first apartment in Minnesota back in 1970 had 110v outlets in the parking lot to run car tank heaters. Not hard (not cheap, either) to retrofit in apartments. I agree that parking meters could have 110v 20A outlets. Where there is a will, there is a way.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 24, 2024 02:17PM
I've got to visit Mexico City; it's one if those places that fascinates on many levels.



Hurts like a bastid...
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 24, 2024 02:21PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
I've got to visit Mexico City; it's one if those places that fascinates on many levels.

Lots of wealth and lots of poverty.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 24, 2024 02:30PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
mrbigstuff
I've got to visit Mexico City; it's one if those places that fascinates on many levels.

Lots of wealth and lots of poverty.

Speedy probably has some other sinister features that pique interest at checkpoints. hmm? hmm?
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 24, 2024 02:47PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Speedy
Quote
mrbigstuff
I've got to visit Mexico City; it's one if those places that fascinates on many levels.

Lots of wealth and lots of poverty.

Speedy probably has some other sinister features that pique interest at checkpoints. hmm? hmm?

My 10+ year old Caddy ELR gets its share of looks by LEO because they didn’t sell them here (it’s a two door coupe) and it has Minnesota plates however once they see its inspection hologram they are no longer interested. A few years ago we were shaken down for $750 by a handful of off-duty LEOs at an ad hoc checkpoint. If I had gotten the two-week tourist permit for the car we would have objected but I failed to get one because they are only issued online during normal business hours and not on weekends or holidays, something I didn’t plan for before first entering the city on a Saturday. I believe the normal fine was $20. It was give them all our cash or get towed, most likely to a chop shop.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 24, 2024 03:45PM
Quote
gadje
L1 is 120V, at least my PHEV with 120V is level 1 I think.

Level 1 is 120v & 1.2 kW max.

You will only add a few miles per hour of charging depending on the EV.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: kj
Date: February 24, 2024 04:39PM
Chargers at apartment complexes is not something that could be done, it is being done:



I took this in Nampa, Idaho, which is at the leading edge of technology. Very progressive winking smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2024 08:11PM by kj.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: kj
Date: February 24, 2024 04:43PM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
gadje
L1 is 120V, at least my PHEV with 120V is level 1 I think.

Level 1 is 120v & 1.2 kW max.

You will only add a few miles per hour of charging depending on the EV.

I think I got 20% overnight at a hotel on the portable charger that came with my Tesla. My Fiat could get 50-60% overnight, but that's only 60miles winking smiley
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 24, 2024 05:11PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
Harbourmaster
I'm in no rush to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a new electric vehicle when the old ICE vehicles I have are perfectly serviceable, and will be for a loooong time to come.

We have two ICE vehicles that see about 2000 miles each, annually.


Maybe you'd be better off just using Uber or Lyft? Likely save you money by not needing insurance.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 24, 2024 05:42PM
Ran the numbers, doesn’t make any sense in my case…..you on the other hand it would make sense to, you should do it, unless money is trivial for you.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 24, 2024 06:03PM
Quote
macphanatic
Fire marshals and insurance companies are leery about charging stations in parking garages. Regardless of fire frequency, EV fires require 10's of thousands of gallons of water and hours/days to extinguish. Fire departments aren't equipped to get equipment into a garage or the burning vehicle out of the garage. ICE car fires can be controlled by standard fire sprinklers and extinguishment can be accomplished with one or two fire hoses.

Is it the CHARGING STATIONS catching fire that they’re worried about, or the EVs themselves?

The EVs are going to be in those parking garages whether there are charging stations in them or not.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: February 24, 2024 06:09PM
Quote
Steve G.
more charging stations would increase EV sales.

The public is rightly leery.

It’s important to remember that most people do not live in single family homes with a garage where an individual EV charger can be installed.

It’s also important to remember that apartment building garages are not equipped with electrical power for EV charging. What IS often forgotten is that overnight EV charging can run at “Level 1” for most owners. So the power requirements are less.

It’s all a tough set of equations.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 26, 2024 10:08AM
Quote
kj
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
gadje
L1 is 120V, at least my PHEV with 120V is level 1 I think.

Level 1 is 120v & 1.2 kW max.

You will only add a few miles per hour of charging depending on the EV.

I think I got 20% overnight at a hotel on the portable charger that came with my Tesla. My Fiat could get 50-60% overnight, but that's only 60miles winking smiley

It all comes down to efficiency.

If you get 4 miles/kwh, you get 32 miles from eight hours of L1 charging.

I get 2 miles/kwh, so the same eight hours would only give me 16 miles.

Anyway I just needed to post this:

Oh Lord
Won't you buy me
A Mercedes Benz
My friends all drive Porsches
I must make amends
I work hard all my life
And it comes to no end
So Lord
Won't you buy me
A Mercedes Benz




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2024 12:10PM by Lux Interior.
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Re: Now Mercedes Backs Off EVs
Posted by: kj
Date: February 26, 2024 01:41PM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
kj
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
gadje
L1 is 120V, at least my PHEV with 120V is level 1 I think.

Level 1 is 120v & 1.2 kW max.

You will only add a few miles per hour of charging depending on the EV.

I think I got 20% overnight at a hotel on the portable charger that came with my Tesla. My Fiat could get 50-60% overnight, but that's only 60miles winking smiley

It all comes down to efficiency.

If you get 4 miles/kwh, you get 32 miles from eight hours of L1 charging.

I get 2 miles/kwh, so the same eight hours would only give me 16 miles.

Anyway I just needed to post this:

Oh Lord
Won't you buy me
A Mercedes Benz
My friends all drive Porsches
I must make amends
I work hard all my life
And it comes to no end
So Lord
Won't you buy me
A Mercedes Benz

Since it was available (they had an outlet on every light post) and easy it gave me a little extra to go to breakfast before charging, and make the supercharging a little quicker. Just kind of a nice little free boost. I think having that possibility readily available would be pretty helpful, really. These ones were for engine block heaters, I think. But if I was short of cash, I could just plug in for a long time and hang out.
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