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Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 03:21PM
Okay, so I should have purchased the 'Apple Care' Extended Warranty (becuase the 1 year warranty ran out the end of February), but I didn't. Now I have a 17" iMac G5 (not the Intel version, but the last one they sold just before that) with the iSight etceteras with a dead motherboard (at least according to the Mac Genius).

Any suggestions?

Right now, I am trying to pull it apart to get at the Hard Drive as it is my wife's who is a teacher and all of her files are on there (and no I haven't backed it up in a month or two).

So please, I already know I am a fool on many levels, don't take the time to remind me of how much a loser I am. I just want to make lemonade out of this lemon of a day.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: spacescape
Date: May 03, 2007 03:24PM
Suck it up, buy a refurbished 17" Intel Mac (core duo or core 2 duo would be a good upgrade) and put the old HD in a external enclosure (I thought dealmac.com had a link for a bus powered SerialATA enclosure for about $20 last week). Then sell the iMac for parts.

Apple replaced my friends G5 iMac's motherboard 3 times and the last time they gave him a nice shinny new 20" Intel iMac w/ a core 2 duo in it... It sucks because APple had TONS of issues w/ the capacitors failing in the G5 iMacs and people like you are SOL.

Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2007 03:26PM by spacescape.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: May 03, 2007 03:26PM
Yep. Buy a refurb and sell the scraps. If you've got a lot of ram in it, sell that separately. Sell the carcass as "parts only" on eBay. Someone may want it for the screen.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: May 03, 2007 03:33PM
I keep wishing I had gotten the AppleCare on the iMac I'm putting up, as it'd make a nice selling point. 'space & 'blu have good advice; get a refurb to replace it rather than put any more into in, money-wise. You can readily get a case for that drive at the local [insert store name here] or via OWC.



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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 03:34PM
How much do you think the screen is worth...

Or better yet, is there a site to see what the different parts are worth... like the Bluetooth, screen, etceteras?
wms out.

P.S. Any good sites to show how to get the hard drive out?
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: mattkime
Date: May 03, 2007 03:42PM
>>I already know I am a fool on many levels,

Don't be so hard on yourself. Apple wouldn't sell AppleCare if they didn't make money off it.



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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: May 03, 2007 03:45PM
Quote
mattkime
>>I already know I am a fool on many levels,

Don't be so hard on yourself. Apple wouldn't sell AppleCare if they didn't make money off it.

Yup, yup. There was a time when I would imagine most of us did not even consider AppleCare at all, and usually then only on a laptop.



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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 03:50PM
Zoidberg... you got it. I purchase Apple Care for my Laptops (absolutely), and intrestinly enough, I recommend that all my family members and friends buy it becuase it is simple and easy and it keeps me from having to do everything.

But, I figured I could handle any problem that would arise. Pride goes before the fall!
Gottaluvit!
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: May 03, 2007 03:51PM
Umm, the folks at the Apple store are sometimes more enthusiastic than they are accurate. What are the machine's symptons? Here's what I'd try:

1. See if there is any kind of recall or extended warranty:

[www.apple.com]

2. If you bought via credit card, see if that doubles your warranty.

3. Try the other voodoo things, if they apply: reset PMU, start from external HD, etc.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 03, 2007 03:54PM
There are two G5 iMac repair extension programs, you might first double check to see if you iMac is covered by one of them.

[www.apple.com]
[www.apple.com]
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: May 03, 2007 03:57PM
Quote
wms
How much do you think the screen is worth...

Or better yet, is there a site to see what the different parts are worth... like the Bluetooth, screen, etceteras?
wms out.

P.S. Any good sites to show how to get the hard drive out?

Looks like the "parts" shell could fetch anywhere between 350 and 450 on eBay as-is. I wouldn't go so far as to break out the airport, bluetooth, and every little piece on it. Just pull your drive and extra ram, then sell the carcass.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: May 03, 2007 04:05PM
Quote
Zoidberg
Yup, yup. There was a time when I would imagine most of us did not even consider AppleCare at all, and usually then only on a laptop.

Don't count me in that group please.
Buy AC on everything Apple, has served me well.
Last year did a rough calculation, saved about $3500 in repairs over the cost of AC.
Mostly on my DP450, two motherboards.
Haven't calculated the iBook, it is going in for the third time as soon as the box gets here.
Even though I have had six repairs on this thing, only three count against the magic "Replace the Computer" number. Seems that bad batteries (2), and defective AC Adapters (2) don't count!

BGnR



"Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto! You're beautiful!"
"If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 04:07PM
The Mac Genius who helped me (and said he was the manager) said that it was neither a video problem or power supply. He was unable to boot it at all.

Basically what happened was that last night I walked into the room where it was and heard the fan for the first time (I had never heard the fan prior to that... it is in a well ventilated area). I went to move the mouse, which did move, but it didn't click on anything. As I was trying to see what was wrong the gray "Restart you computer" screen came up. I restarted the computer, and it looked like it would restart, but it got to the gray Apple Logo and the spinning lines, slowed down, and then the grey "Restart your computer came up." I tried one more time and then you would only hear the "boing" and then the fans started revving up with nothing on the screen (black).

Unfortunately, this was beyond me, so I unplugged it and made an appointment for the Genius Bar.

You know everything after that point.
wms out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2007 04:09PM by wms.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: May 03, 2007 04:12PM
Quote
BigGuynRusty
Don't count me in that group please. BGnR

Actually, my exact line was, "There was a time..." (as in, long long ago). I should have been more specific. I *always* tell people to get AppleCare on their Macs, and have for a while.

In my case I didn't get the notification about signing up for AppleCare (long story; mail & relocation don't play nice) and just forgot about it. By the time I looked into it, I was months past my purchase date anniversary and couldn't get it.



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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: davester
Date: May 03, 2007 04:33PM
...or try something like this:
[cgi.ebay.com]



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: May 03, 2007 04:37PM
This:

[docs.info.apple.com]

1. Turn off the computer by choosing Shut Down from the Apple menu, or by holding the power button until the computer turns off.
2. Unplug all cables from the computer, including the power cord.
3. Wait 10 seconds.
4. Plug in the power cord while simultaneously pressing and holding the power button on the back of the computer.
5. Let go of the power button.
6. Press the power button once more to start up your iMac.

The original iMac G5 model has a small button on the main logic board that will also reset the SMU, allowing you to reset the SMU easily if you have the back cover removed. The original iMac G5 will start up when pressing this button.

And this:

[macosg.com]

iMac G5: No Power

In a No Power situation the system is completely dead. There is no LED, no hard drive or fan activity and the screen is black.
1. Verify power outlet is good.
2. Replace power cord.
3. Remove the back cover.
4. Reconnect the power cord to both the iMac and the wall outlet
5. Look at the small LEDs in the center of your computer
6. Is LED #1 on or off?
LED #1 is on. Turn the iMac on by pressing the small metal power button under the bracket on the blue board (the logic board) Go to step 7.
LED #1 is off. This indicates that your power supply needs to be replaced.
7. Does the computer start up normally after pressing the internal power button?
Yes: Press the power button for at least five seconds to shut the computer off again.
Unplug the power cord from the iMac, and replace the back cover back.
Return the computer to the upright position. Plug in the computer, and press the power button to turn on the computer. Make sure the computer is starting up properly.
No: Press the other small metal button on the logic board. This is the SMU (System Management Unit) reset button. Go on to step 8.
8. Does the computer start up normally now?
Yes: Press the power button for at least five seconds to shut the computer off again.
Unplug the power cord from the iMac, and replace the back cover back.
Return the computer to the upright position. Plug in the computer, and press the power button on the back cover to turn on the computer. Make sure the computer is starting up properly.
No: LED #1 lit up after you plugged in the power cord, which means your power supply is fine. However, even after you pressed the SMU reset button the computer wouldn't start up. This indicates that your midplane assembly needs to be replaced.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 05:34PM
Actually I believe I read that article... but I have yet to be able to open the iMac properly. I removed the three screws and lifted up on the back, but the entire computer lifted out leaving only the front bezel leaving me no access to the guts of the computer. I am continuing to look for a step by step with pictures if anyone knows of a site.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: The Grim Ninja
Date: May 03, 2007 05:51PM
Do the intel macs still do open-firmware?

It seems worth a try. Turn it on and immediately push Command + Option + O + F

If it goes to a white-ish screen with some text, type in "reset-nvram" then "reset-all" (with enter/return after each).

Also, try booting from CD, try booting into FW target mode.

The geniuses aren't all that bright, in my opinion...

Once you get the HD out, try booting it then. Could be a failed HD preventing it from booting. Used to happen with IDE drives now and then.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 05:58PM
I've tried a few of those and the Mac Genius said he did to:

FW Target Mode (no go)
Booting from CD (no go)

I'll try the others (Open Firmware Mode) but I did try to open it in Single User Mode, but I'm not even sure it that still works, especailly since it was a no go as well.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: May 03, 2007 05:58PM
First, did you buy it with a credit card? Somebody else already asked, but you didn't respond one way or the other (that I saw.)

How similar is the G5 iMac to the first generation Intel iMac in terms of taking it apart? I did find a site where pictures of that process are posted. Maybe you can get some clues for working with yours.

[home.comcast.net]
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: MikeF
Date: May 03, 2007 05:59PM
I'm assuming that you checked here for manuals:
[www.apple.com]
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: The Grim Ninja
Date: May 03, 2007 06:01PM
wms, check PMs
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: Mr645
Date: May 03, 2007 06:53PM
Apple has replaced 5 iMac powersupply and motherboards for me, often after the 1 yr waranty. Ask them if this is a common problem, because it is. 5 out of 5 of my iMacs have died this way, all were repaired and no futher issues
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 06:53PM
Taking Apart problem solved. Horray!

Hard Drive out and tranferring important data first... (then a full back up).

Then I would like to try any other remedies before I give up entirely.

As for those who asked if we purchased with credit card... I've been checking (last year's files are not right in front of me) and it turns out that we did purchase with our American Express/Costco Member card. I don't know if it has the extended warranty that you mention, but I will be calling them momentarily.

Thanx to all who have offered suggestions thus far. Progress is being made.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 06:55PM
Mr645,
I asked the Manager/MacGenius as nicely as I could, and he basically said I was SOL.

I could have tried to make a stink, but I thought that I'd see what I could do first.
Thanx.

Who knows, I may still make a stink, but I may have VOIDed any warranty I might have gotten by opening this thing up.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: AlphaDog
Date: May 03, 2007 07:13PM
Quote
wms
Taking Apart problem solved. Horray!

Hard Drive out and tranferring important data first... (then a full back up).

Then I would like to try any other remedies before I give up entirely.

As for those who asked if we purchased with credit card... I've been checking (last year's files are not right in front of me) and it turns out that we did purchase with our American Express/Costco Member card. I don't know if it has the extended warranty that you mention, but I will be calling them momentarily.

Thanx to all who have offered suggestions thus far. Progress is being made.
wms out.

Yup, my Costco Amex sent me a check for the cost of a new hard drive in my Pismo. It was a fast, smooth transaction. I needed the original receipt, a copy of the warranty from Apple, and they also asked for a copy of the statement on which the charge showed. I did have that, but I don't think it would be a deal breaker if you don't.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 07:27PM
Horray-Horray!

Just got off the phone with the American Express people... turns out I have a whole mess of services I never knew of (I've gotta start reading the fine print).

Now I have to wait to see if I ran into a problem with opening the thing up to get to my wife's data. She is happy that she didn't lose everything, but she will be soooo much more happy to find out that we can either get reimbursed for the cost of the computer or have it repaired.

Thanx again to the entire MacResource crew.
All the best.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 07:28PM
BTW, my wife was able to dig up all of our original receipts and the photocopy of the original ID/Serial area of the box the computer came in.

Coolness.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 07:29PM
Anybody have any thoughts on whether or not I'll run into trouble for opening this thing up and getting my wife's data off of it?
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: The Grim Ninja
Date: May 03, 2007 07:43PM
Personally, I wouldn't mention it unless someone asks. If they do, tell them you had an authorized person do it. (then pray someone here can make up an invoice for you, or give credentials, if you need them).
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: JoeH
Date: May 03, 2007 07:46PM
Usually as long as you did not break anything opening up the system, you should not run into any problems getting it repaired. Some repair persons go beyond policy and make it an issue, that can be taken care of by talking to their manager. If not, complain to Apple customer relations about the problem with their service side. That often gets positive results.



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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: chas_m
Date: May 03, 2007 08:51PM
Quote
wms
Now I have to wait to see if I ran into a problem with opening the thing up to get to my wife's data.

I am pulling for you on this, wms, but I have to tell you as an Apple Tech myself ... I think you have probably screwed yourself for the second time.

What you SHOULD have done is take it to an Apple Authorised Repair Center (such as the Apple Store) and had THEM!!! take the hard drive out for you. By opening the machine not using the proper tools you have probably done some damage that will be easy for the Apple Techs to detect. They may outright wash their hands of it right there.

(Aside to Grim Ninja: do you have ANY idea how fast Apple would pull our credentials if we ginned up an invoice and got caught? Do you have ANY idea how much those creditials cost/are worth? Please smack yourself upside the head for me for even SUGGESTING such a thing!)

Again, wms, I sincerely hope this turns out well for you, but Apple is not likely to take kindly to the fact that you opened the machine to cover up for your own mistake (not making backups). Let's hope they are feeling exceptionally merciful the day they get it, but I can tell you from cold hard experience that Apple USUALLY rejects hand-opened iMacs immediately upon detection, and they're VERY good at detecting.

The only advice I have for you at this point is to be exceptionally pleasant to deal with in taking to Apple. That WILL get you more mercy than trying to "demand" your "rights."

Oh, and since you DO have the machine open, look for scortch marks near the power supply and bulging capacitors. If you find any, DOCUMENT IT IMMEDIATELY with a digital camera. It will help you if either of those things are present.



chas_m




[crawlingfromtheusa.blogspot.com] <-- Moving to Canada blog
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 09:09PM
chas_m
I actually lean the way of not saying anything and then admitting my stupidity. I'm not trying to pull one over on anybody. I started to pull the data off when I thought I had no other option. I actually asked the Mac Genius if he could pull the data off, but he said he'd only do it if we purchased another computer. I told him it may come to that, but that I didn't have the money at this point, and that my wife really needed her stuff off of it. His response to me was that the computer was toast and that no one would bother fixing it, and if I wanted to pull the hard drive and sell the rest on ebay, that he thought that would be my best bet for getting back any portion of what I paid for it. I just wish he would have mentioned the 'Extra Year' of warranty to me. I would have told him that we did indeed purchase it with a Credit Card (although I didn't know at the time, becuase I had to look it up, but I should have known since we make all our higher dollar purchases like that and then pay them off that month). I am for being up front and wishing for the best.
We'll see.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 09:20PM
BTW, I didn't mention it, but I did tell the Mac Genius that I would pay him to pull off the data and he still said no.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 03, 2007 10:04PM
IIRC, I think that AMEX just requires an estimate for the repair and not a receipt for the repair, but I could be wrong. If that is the case, maybe you could go back to the Apple Store and get the same "genius" to give you the estimate, since he saw it before you did anything. I believe they will compensate you for the repair and it will be up to you whether or not you fix that machine or put that money towards a new one.

This is the same thinking as if your car is damaged and your insurance company cuts you a check for the cost of the repair, but you don't actually have to have the repair done. HTH





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: GGD
Date: May 03, 2007 10:13PM
Quote
rgG
IIRC, I think that AMEX just requires an estimate for the repair and not a receipt for the repair, but I could be wrong. If that is the case, maybe you could go back to the Apple Store and get the same "genius" to give you the estimate, since he saw it before you did anything. I believe they will compensate you for the repair and it will be up to you whether or not you fix that machine or put that money towards a new one.

This is the same thinking as if your car is damaged and your insurance company cuts you a check for the cost of the repair, but you don't actually have to have the repair done. HTH

That is exactly how it worked for me with MasterCard. I got the Apple Store to give me a printed repair estimate for their Flat Rate out of warranty repair, and after submitting all of the paperwork I was sent a check for the exact amount of that quote. In some ways that can be better than having AppleCare if you're considering replacing instead of repairing.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: johnc
Date: May 03, 2007 10:18PM
That's how it works with AMEX.

[consumerist.com]
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: wms
Date: May 03, 2007 10:31PM
I got an estimate today before I started all this... so I should be in good standing. On it the Mac Genius even wrote that he would take the data off the hard drive for free if I purchased a computer from them.
wms out.
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: May 03, 2007 10:41PM
Despite the DoomSayers, unless Apple can PROVE that the actions you performed directly attributed to the problem, they can't deny a warranty.
Customers have a lot of clout!!
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.:
[en.wikipedia.org]

BGnR



"Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto! You're beautiful!"
"If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite disaster."
"Near the day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."
"A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky, which could burn the land and boil the oceans."
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Re: Idiot Mistake: Need help... what to do with dead 17" iMac G5
Posted by: mattkime
Date: May 03, 2007 11:53PM
>>do you have ANY idea how fast Apple would pull our credentials if we ginned up an invoice and got caught? Do you have ANY idea how much those creditials cost/are worth?

Judging by most Apple Store employees -

just above minimum wage



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