... just discovered (as I'm filing taxes) that my state is now charging $60 and $110/year for hybrids and EVs, respectively. This is just ridiculous ... I simply don't drive enough that I would be paying $60 worth of gas tax per year. Are all of you who are hybrid or EV owners living in states that charge such a tax?

I wonder what would happen if I simply didn't pay... I can see the argument for having such a tax, but it's simply disproportionate in my case.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Yes, this is true now in Texas.

We drive two EVs. We thus pay $zero towards gas taxes.

I do not mind in principle except that Texas has MASSIVE tolls to pay for roads.

If I'm paying as I go via tolls, stop the annual tax.

PS the one argument I can think for higher than what ICE pay back is that pure EVs and some hybrids can be quite a bit heavier than their ICE equivalents. Weight is the number one road damage effect of driving. Of course, the REAL behemoths on the road are semis. So if the cost was REALLY properly accounted for, cars would be charged far less than trucks across the board.

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sekker
PS the one argument I can think for higher than what ICE pay back is that pure EVs and some hybrids can be quite a bit heavier than their ICE equivalents. Weight is the number one road damage effect of driving. Of course, the REAL behemoths on the road are semis. So if the cost was REALLY properly accounted for, cars would be charged far less than trucks across the board.

Yes, I've seen that argument also, but it doesn't consider the insane number of SUVs and trucks on the road here.

Admittedly, the tax is only $60 yearly for me, but I don't agree with the principle of it... it doesn't take into account how much the car is being driven (or not), how much gas is actually being purchased, etc.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB
... just discovered (as I'm filing taxes) that my state is now charging $60 and $110/year for hybrids and EVs, respectively. This is just ridiculous ... I simply don't drive enough that I would be paying $60 worth of gas tax per year. Are all of you who are hybrid or EV owners living in states that charge such a tax?

I wonder what would happen if I simply didn't pay... I can see the argument for having such a tax, but it's simply disproportionate in my case.

Nearly $200 extra to register my hybrid.

"Highway use fee."

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The last I heard, tractor/trailer owners pay a pretty decent amount of road tax.

Why to you say it's not REALLY accounted for?

I don't know that eVs would affect wear and tear significantly more than ICEmobiles since eVs have suspension, and other than the air in the tires, I don't know that big rigs do.

I don't like tolls on roads that one has to travel, but I like toll lanes, though I've noticed the few out my way are so crowded, there's not much advantage to paying for it.

To that end, I've seen a number of drivers jumping in then out, obviously not paying.

I'd like to see such lanes elevated a few feet shortly after the entrance.

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Ohio … my son pays $200 for his Bolt. He also pays taxes on the electricity he buys.

How many of you that are paying increased registration taxes on your EVs / hybrids also live in red states?

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$75 here in WI. The excise tax for transportation is .309 per gallon of gas. 7500 miles per year is the break even if you figure 30mpg is the average. I'm going to hit 40k miles this year so I should be fine.

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C(-)ris
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2024 09:11PM by C(-)ris.

When they charge for a Hybrid, is it all Hybrids or just Plug In Hybrids. I can understand plug-ins, since they can run on something other than gasoline, but a regular Hybrid runs entirely on gasoline, there's no other fuel source.

Just by example. $60 fee
In Texas, the state fuel tax is .20/gal, a sedan that gets 30mpg would need to drive 27,000 miles to pay that tax!

Please tell me if my figures are correct!

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San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

The exorbitant fees are all a part of the war against EVs, big oil and legacy automakers/dealers feel threatened.

In Alabama, it’s $100 for an EV, $50 for a PHEV and $0 for a hybrid.

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sekker
PS the one argument I can think for higher than what ICE pay back is that pure EVs and some hybrids can be quite a bit heavier than their ICE equivalents. Weight is the number one road damage effect of driving. Of course, the REAL behemoths on the road are semis. So if the cost was REALLY properly accounted for, cars would be charged far less than trucks across the board.

I can see how an EV can be heavier than similar sized ICE vehicles, my Bolt EUV weighs +/-4,000 LBS with driver and usual crap in the car.
However, where was this argument when mammoth older Cadillacs and Chryslers dominated the roads?
Do Humvees and the like pay more?

There is a gas guzzler tax still out there, based on the EPA fuel ratings, so why not a weight tax by the GVW
of the vehicle at time of sale?


Dave

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Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

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RAMd®d
I don't know that eVs would affect wear and tear significantly more than ICEmobiles since eVs have suspension, and other than the air in the tires, I don't know that big rigs do.

Trucks mostly have air suspensions (air bags) while trailers mostly have leaf-spring suspensions.

There is no comparison between the damage trucks do to the minuscule license taxes they pay. Of course, they pay more in taxes at the pump but still nothing in relation to the damage they do.

I pay zero additional license renewal taxes on our two PHEVs (Volt, ELR). The Volt usually gets one 9 gallon fill per year, the ELR pays more taxes at the pump because it is our travel car. An EV-only car pays an extra $75 at time of license renewal.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

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PeterB
I can see the argument for having such a tax, but it's simply disproportionate in my case.

...it doesn't take into account how much the car is being driven (or not)...

What would be needed to determine how many miles each individual EV drove in a year, and how much would that cost to implement that process?

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sekker
If I'm paying as I go via tolls, stop the annual tax.

Don't the ICE vehicles also pay those tolls?

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RAMd®d
... eVs have suspension, and other than the air in the tires, I don't know that big rigs do.

Of course "big rigs" have suspensions.

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RAMd®d
I'd like to see such lanes elevated a few feet shortly after the entrance.

How would that be paid for, and how long would it take to accomplish?

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cbelt3
Ohio … my son pays $200 for his Bolt. He also pays taxes on the electricity he buys.

But his electricity tax doesn't go towards road building and maintenance.

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DinerDave
I can see how an EV can be heavier than similar sized ICE vehicles, my Bolt EUV weighs +/-4,000 LBS with driver and usual crap in the car.
However, where was this argument when mammoth older Cadillacs and Chryslers dominated the roads?
Do Humvees and the like pay more?

Aren't State registration fees based on a number of factors? Like vehicle type, purchase price or declared value (those "Cadillacs"), any city and county fees, gross weight (those "mammoth" cars and "Humvees").

I find it amusing that a number of EV owners are complaining about the State highway use tax on their vehicles. They seem to forget the tax breaks they got for buying their EVs which the rest of us tax payers are having to shoulder for their "righteous purchase". Also that they're not only avoiding paying State fuel taxes on gas or diesel, but they're also avoiding paying Federal fuel taxes.

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Rolando
Just by example. $60 fee
In Texas, the state fuel tax is .20/gal, a sedan that gets 30mpg would need to drive 27,000 miles to pay that tax!

Please tell me if my figures are correct!

($60 fee) / (.20/gal) = 300 gallons of gas
(300 gal) * (30 mpg) = 9,000 miles driven.

(300 gal) * (40 mpg) = 12,000 miles driven. I'd bet this is the math they did in coming up with that fee.


You would need to get 90mpg for it to be 27,000 miles.

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bobinmurphy
I find it amusing that a number of EV owners are complaining about the State highway use tax on their vehicles. They seem to forget the tax breaks they got for buying their EVs which the rest of us tax payers are having to shoulder for their "righteous purchase". Also that they're not only avoiding paying State fuel taxes on gas or diesel, but they're also avoiding paying Federal fuel taxes.

You mean, like all the tax breaks you got for driving a gas vehicle? You haven’t come close to paying for all the wars in the Middle East and other peacekeeping operations we’ve been involved in in that part of the world, or the havoc caused by climate change, or even the direct subsidies oil and gas industries have received.

Roads don't pay for themselves.

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vision63
Roads don't pay for themselves.

My wife and I are just fine with paying an EV tax in lieu of a gas tax.

We just want it to be equitable.

I stand by that the REAL issue is that trucks are known to cause the most damage on roads. Their taxes we charge really do not cover their impact.

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bobinmurphy
I find it amusing that a number of EV owners are complaining about the State highway use tax on their vehicles. They seem to forget the tax breaks they got for buying their EVs which the rest of us tax payers are having to shoulder for their "righteous purchase". Also that they're not only avoiding paying State fuel taxes on gas or diesel, but they're also avoiding paying Federal fuel taxes.

Huh? I got NO tax break for buying my hybrid. The tax break wasn't in place at that time.

And I'm not avoiding paying any taxes on gas, since I do have to gas up. I'm just not spending as much on gas as some.

I agree with sekker -- I'm fine with paying some tax, I just think it should be equitable.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB

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bobinmurphy
I find it amusing that a number of EV owners are complaining about the State highway use tax on their vehicles. They seem to forget the tax breaks they got for buying their EVs which the rest of us tax payers are having to shoulder for their "righteous purchase". Also that they're not only avoiding paying State fuel taxes on gas or diesel, but they're also avoiding paying Federal fuel taxes.

Huh? I got NO tax break for buying my hybrid. The tax break wasn't in place at that time.

And I'm not avoiding paying any taxes on gas, since I do have to gas up. I'm just not spending as much on gas as some.

I agree with sekker -- I'm fine with paying some tax, I just think it should be equitable.

Be careful what you wish for.

Some states are implementing per-mile road-use fees.

...For which you'll need to let the government monitor the real-time location/speed of your vehicle at all times.

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vision63
Roads don't pay for themselves.

SOCIALIST ROADS!!!!.

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GGD
($60 fee) / (.20/gal) = 300 gallons of gas
(300 gal) * (30 mpg) = 9,000 miles driven.

(300 gal) * (40 mpg) = 12,000 miles driven. I'd bet this is the math they did in coming up with that fee.


You would need to get 90mpg for it to be 27,000 miles.

I must have put an extra *3 somewhere down the line.
OTOH, aren't EVs regularly rated at about 90 MPGe?

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San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

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Tiangou

Quote
PeterB

Quote
bobinmurphy
I find it amusing that a number of EV owners are complaining about the State highway use tax on their vehicles. They seem to forget the tax breaks they got for buying their EVs which the rest of us tax payers are having to shoulder for their "righteous purchase". Also that they're not only avoiding paying State fuel taxes on gas or diesel, but they're also avoiding paying Federal fuel taxes.

Huh? I got NO tax break for buying my hybrid. The tax break wasn't in place at that time.

And I'm not avoiding paying any taxes on gas, since I do have to gas up. I'm just not spending as much on gas as some.

I agree with sekker -- I'm fine with paying some tax, I just think it should be equitable.

Be careful what you wish for.

Some states are implementing per-mile road-use fees.

...For which you'll need to let the government monitor the real-time location/speed of your vehicle at all times.

They're probably already doing that anyway, and I have nothing to hide.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB

Quote
Tiangou

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PeterB

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bobinmurphy
I find it amusing that a number of EV owners are complaining about the State highway use tax on their vehicles. They seem to forget the tax breaks they got for buying their EVs which the rest of us tax payers are having to shoulder for their "righteous purchase". Also that they're not only avoiding paying State fuel taxes on gas or diesel, but they're also avoiding paying Federal fuel taxes.

Huh? I got NO tax break for buying my hybrid. The tax break wasn't in place at that time.

And I'm not avoiding paying any taxes on gas, since I do have to gas up. I'm just not spending as much on gas as some.

I agree with sekker -- I'm fine with paying some tax, I just think it should be equitable.

Be careful what you wish for.

Some states are implementing per-mile road-use fees.

...For which you'll need to let the government monitor the real-time location/speed of your vehicle at all times.

They're probably already doing that anyway, and I have nothing to hide.

Everyone says that until a computer-glitch sends them to prison.

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Starting July 1, NJ EV buyers will pay an extra $250 per year extra, on top of their normal registration cost according to Link

NJ also requires EV buyers to prepay for 4 years, resulting in a $1,000 charge.

You expect the government to be equitable? That was your first mistake.

The only truly equitable solution is to eliminate gas taxes, etc and tax based upon mileage driven. Then someone will invent a device that deceives odometers in order to change the recorded mileage. Or they'll track license plates - which they already do to an extent.