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My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: August 08, 2024 04:40PM
My mom had a stroke last night. I just got home from being with her all of today. My brother is with her now. She's stable - but is having some issues swallowing and she's got an issue with her heart. She's 84. According to her - she had let the nurses at her retirement home know she wasnt feeling well - coughing, vomiting, confused, didnt know who she was, etc - and the nurses thought she was "exaggerating", and brushed it off. My mom said she'd been telling the nursing staff for over 2 months something wasnt right and they just ignored her. Luckily my brother got there just in time to call the ambulance.

This INFURIATES me to no end.

What to do? WHat not to do? I am furious.


EDIT: I'm furious about how the staff at her retirement home treated her NOT my brother.



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Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2024 04:52PM by Jerry®.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: lost in space
Date: August 08, 2024 04:45PM
That is very sad news. Please keep us up to date.



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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: August 08, 2024 04:46PM
i am sitting here bawling? my eyes out....



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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: August 08, 2024 04:50PM
Sorry to hear! I have no advice on what to do about the apparent negligence, but I hope your Mother recovers soon without complications.



Mr. Lahey: Why don't you get a life Rick? Why don't ya go to community college like Julian here. Hey, I got a good idea. You could teach, livin' in a car and growin' dope 101.

Ricky: Hehe. And you can teach how to get drunk, get fired from the police force, become a... lousy trailer park supervisor that sucks, hangs around with a @#$%&' idiot that doesn't wear a shirt, and looks like a dick but thinks he looks good... 101.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: rich in distress
Date: August 08, 2024 04:57PM
That’s dreadful. Good on your brother’s timing.
Hope you find a good solution.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: hal
Date: August 08, 2024 05:17PM
That's just terrible! But I advise you to get control of yourself before you take action.

My mom spent several years in such a place and this is how I would handle this situation...

Call the director and give them the details about what happened and ask just what is the routine for determining when the ambulance should be called. I certainly understand the regular staff brushing it off. Old people complain about stuff all day, every day and it is usually about nothing important - diagnosis is not their job.

But sometimes the complaints are important - ask how does the staff manage this. Ask lots of questions about the SOP and be very kind. A nurse should know better than to just ignore complaints.

At some point if it's clear there was a mistake, you can say something like, 'well, clearly that isn't what happened this time - how do we make sure it doesn't happen again?
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: August 08, 2024 05:34PM
In my experience, whether hospitals (general floor), rehab facilities or nursing homes…..you can’t leave elderly with potential issues alone. A family member always needs to be there. Either the places are understaffed or you got employees that don’t care. I can’t wait until humanoid robots replace them. In the mean time, take care of your health, otherwise it’ll really suck getting older.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Forrest
Date: August 08, 2024 05:50PM
Get a lawyer and discuss your case



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2024 05:51PM by Forrest.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: August 08, 2024 08:21PM
1. Contact a lawyer
2. Contact state licensing board
3. Contact local Medicaid office
4. Contact local news.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Diana
Date: August 08, 2024 09:17PM
This is going to be a rather long post.

I understand EXACTLY where you are coming from. In the possible case of a stroke, time is of the essence to diminish damage; several years ago when my mom was in a rehab facility, she started acting strange: up all night, talking to everyone when she would never speak to total strangers, wandering the hallways, talking nonsense. I wanted them to send her to a hospital, and they wanting to wait, get an x-ray from the portable x-ray machine (whenever it came?) to see if it was a return of the pneumonia. I thought it was a possible stroke, although maybe not one that would cause muscle weakness and debilitation (strokes come in all varieties). I had to force the hand, calling her doctor and getting the ambulance to send her to the hospital to be checked out.

And that wasn't the only time something stupid happened, either. But, this isn't about me or mine, but about you and yours.

First, she's at the hospital where she can be monitored. Her needs are currently being taken care of to some degree, but you will still need to be an advocate for her. RIGHT NOW, however, you and your brother need to make sure that her needs will continue to be taken care of.

So, let's take care of you first. You don't want to become part of the problem (not that you ARE a part, but the deeper you go into this rabbit hole, the easier it becomes to get lost in it). Eat, sleep, take time for yourself. Your brother is there you said: is he local, or is he only here for a visit? If he isn't local, he needs to figure out something to help you with this because it is too much for one person alone. Tag-team it, discuss between yourselves, make sure that everything is discussed and known between the two (or more) of you. Communication is IMPORTANT!

Take a deep breath. Take another. Continue until you are calm. From here on out, remaining calm is REQUIRED. It is not an option.

As stated above, hospitals, rehab facilities, nursing homes... they come in basically two types: those that are only there to make money, and those that genuinely care about their patients. Unfortunately there is NO strict line between the two of them and so it is quite difficult to know which kind you are dealing with. BOTH kinds will be understaffed; the kinds that care about their patients will tend to keep better quality folks around, but even then they may have a few that shouldn't be there. As Carnos says, you can't leave elderly with potential issues alone. Someone needs to be there, either family members or trusted friends, and not just for 30 minutes a day. Make it odd times as well; observe and make notes. You don't have to be obnoxious about it, but if they know that a family member is there and keeping an eye on things, then there seems to be less "problems" occurring. Conversely, if they know that a family member is there, then some of the step-n-fetch-it type stuff gets put off onto the family member and it may seem that they don't pay enough attention to the patient. Believe me, they know.

Something you may run into, particularly these days, is a facility where they will treat you like a "problem" in that you don't need to know, you don't get a say, you really should just butt out and go away. This is something I had an issue with the last facility where my mom went to. I thought it was NOT an intensive care floor but it WAS. It wasn't labelled as such that I could see, and it wasn't explained to me. I found out about it several days later (much to my frustration). Communication is key.

Does anyone have a medical power of attorney for your mom? I assume you have, but if you don't, then you may want to get one simply because if she gets to a place where she is incoherent or non communicative and decisions need to be made, whoever has it can make those decisions based on what you believe she would want. A DNR needs to be decided and executed. PM me if you want to discuss what we did for my mom. BUT, and this is an important one, just because you have the MedPoA the facility may (or not) pay attention to what you are saying, as I'll relate in a quick story below.

Hal is spot on when he said:

Call the director and give them the details about what happened and ask just what is the routine for determining when the ambulance should be called. I certainly understand the regular staff brushing it off. Old people complain about stuff all day, every day and it is usually about nothing important - diagnosis is not their job.

But sometimes the complaints are important - ask how does the staff manage this. Ask lots of questions about the SOP and be very kind. A nurse should know better than to just ignore complaints.

At some point if it's clear there was a mistake, you can say something like, 'well, clearly that isn't what happened this time - how do we make sure it doesn't happen again?


This is one aspect where remaining calm and rational is paramount. If you feel that your voice isn't being heard, then it is time to find someone who can make a difference. In my case, it was my brother: his son is severely handicapped and has been since birth. Little bro therefore knows the language, the cadence, much of the ins and outs. He has been a pastor for the last 30-40 years(?) and has seen the same thing play out with others (although this time it was his own mother). He served on the ethics board of a major research university... He could get answers where I couldn't. I had the MedPoA, was listed first on it! and I couldn't get answers from anyone as they wouldn't talk to me. As far as the MedPoA goes, as I said above, sometimes the facility may not want to talk to you even if they are legally required to do so. In mom's case, she appeared to be rational and coherent, but dementia was quickly taking over and she was not able to make rational decisions. Quick story: a facility where my nephew was at required a discussion and signature from the patient. As my brother kept trying to tell them, he has MedPoA as his son is nonverbal and cannot write, and wouldn't understand anything they tried to discuss with him, born with a severe case of cerebral palsy. They insisted that they needed to talk to the patient, and the patient's father wasn't good enough. Until they saw my nephew, and only then would they allow my brother to make the decisions and sign what needed signed.

You may already know the Medicare ins and outs. Medicare governmental site (provided if you need it, go to the bottom of the page for helpful links). Just as a reminder, if you don't already know.

Your mother is on Medicare, and there are things that Medicare will require from the facility. A bad report to Medicare can be ... not much fun. For them. As an aside, if you are not already aware: if the hospital is wanting to kick your mom out because she isn't making the progress they require, or whatever, and you feel that your mom isn't ready to be discharged you can protest to Medicare. The discharge will be put on hold until Medicare makes a determination, usually in a few days, so if you have something set up and the timing isn't quite right, this can be a viable strategy to employ to get a few more days. I had to use this to ensure my mom getting into the rehab facility we wanted (read: needed) her to go to and NOT to the one that was "currently available." If you think this may be an issue in the future, get things together so that you can quickly file the appeal with Medicare. Many hospitals will quickly discharge patients (as in just an hour or two), and it may not give you much time. And yes, they will discharge the patient to a family member even when it is quite obvious that it will amount to dumping the patient with neither the patient nor the "caregiver" able to handle it.

A lawyer may be needed, so prepare yourself for it. Take notes, with dates, times, people, who you talked to, what they said, etc. Sometimes, a lawyer can get things done where you can't. Unfortunate, but true. Ask around now as this may take time; if someone knows someone who is a lawyer, they may be amenable to asking in the right circles to find someone so that you don't have to just choose a name from some list somewhere.

Good luck, and let us know how things go. It helps to talk to people who have gone through it.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 08, 2024 09:39PM
Yeah, we've been through a couple of these - but in our case my in laws consider calling for medical help to be a last resort. You can image how that plays out in the urgency of treating a stroke.

Seems like you've gotten some solid advice in this thread - I can only lend my sympathy.



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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: August 09, 2024 09:45AM
Quote
hal
That's just terrible! But I advise you to get control of yourself before you take action.

My mom spent several years in such a place and this is how I would handle this situation...

Call the director and give them the details about what happened and ask just what is the routine for determining when the ambulance should be called. I certainly understand the regular staff brushing it off. Old people complain about stuff all day, every day and it is usually about nothing important - diagnosis is not their job.

But sometimes the complaints are important - ask how does the staff manage this. Ask lots of questions about the SOP and be very kind. A nurse should know better than to just ignore complaints.

At some point if it's clear there was a mistake, you can say something like, 'well, clearly that isn't what happened this time - how do we make sure it doesn't happen again?

What does “SOP” stand for?



Master Tinkerer Jerry®
My Amazon WISH List updated Jan 2025

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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: August 09, 2024 09:52AM
Quote
Jerry®
Quote
hal
That's just terrible! But I advise you to get control of yourself before you take action.

My mom spent several years in such a place and this is how I would handle this situation...

Call the director and give them the details about what happened and ask just what is the routine for determining when the ambulance should be called. I certainly understand the regular staff brushing it off. Old people complain about stuff all day, every day and it is usually about nothing important - diagnosis is not their job.

But sometimes the complaints are important - ask how does the staff manage this. Ask lots of questions about the SOP and be very kind. A nurse should know better than to just ignore complaints.

At some point if it's clear there was a mistake, you can say something like, 'well, clearly that isn't what happened this time - how do we make sure it doesn't happen again?

What does “SOP” stand for?

I'm sure it's Standard Operating Procedure in this instance.



Mr. Lahey: Why don't you get a life Rick? Why don't ya go to community college like Julian here. Hey, I got a good idea. You could teach, livin' in a car and growin' dope 101.

Ricky: Hehe. And you can teach how to get drunk, get fired from the police force, become a... lousy trailer park supervisor that sucks, hangs around with a @#$%&' idiot that doesn't wear a shirt, and looks like a dick but thinks he looks good... 101.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: August 09, 2024 10:02AM
My brother is local as am I. I have 3 older brothers (one of which is my mom’s MPOA/POA) and a younger sister. They are not local but we’ve been staying in touch via chat group. I talked to my brother (who is local) about what my mom said about the retirement home nurse thinking she was exaggerating and he agreed that we should follow up with the home to see what exactly happened, etc. The brother who is POA usually handles things like this - so I am hoping he calls and talks to the staff at the home. I think i would get too emotional and angry- my older bro is good with these sort of issues.

So I am taking care of myself and my local brother and I are taking turns sitting with my mom. Goes without saying but I don’t want to lose her. She had me tearing up yesterday because she started crying saying “well, I’ve had a fun life….this is it.” I told her nonsense and that we’d be there for her and she’s not done with this life yet. I knew this day would come but you can’t prepare for it. But as far as I know right now 10:20 AM CST she’s doing ok. They are trying to transfer her to a bigger hospital but there are no beds available so they are keeping her in the ER and keeping her comfortable.

Thank you all for your support. You guys are great. I don’t know what I’d do without you.


- Jerry



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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Diana
Date: August 09, 2024 12:30PM
Depression is common in the elderly, and the comments you relate make me think that she may be suffering from it as well. Does she have friends she would be willing to see for a visit or two? Knowing that others are thinking of her may cheer her up a bit; one’s attitude and outlook have a considerable influence on recovery.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: August 09, 2024 01:56PM
Quote
Diana
Depression is common in the elderly, and the comments you relate make me think that she may be suffering from it as well. Does she have friends she would be willing to see for a visit or two? Knowing that others are thinking of her may cheer her up a bit; one’s attitude and outlook have a considerable influence on recovery.

She has terrible OCD/anxiety/depression - runs in our family - but she doesn’t like the meds for it so she wont take them. They transferred her to a hospital about an hour and a half away so her friends at the retirement home most likely wont go see her but my brother and I are doing the rounds and the whole family is texting and calling her. She’s got her phone and has been texting me and checking facebook where I have been posting updates and today, after talking with her, she sounds and looks MUCH better than yesterday. She even said she feels “MUCH BETTER.”

Fingers Crossed!!!



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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: hal
Date: August 09, 2024 02:48PM
That's great Jerry - great that you and the family are staying in touch
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: dk62
Date: August 09, 2024 02:56PM
Jerry, I feel for you, but it seems your mom weathered this quite well - believe me, my mother died 3 months after her stroke and those 3 months were beyond horrible.

I also understand your anger, but note that, as many have stated, nursing homes are understaffed and old people do complain frequently. The fact that your mom was telling nursing staff for two months that something is wrong was probably one of the reasons they ignored the latest issue, and those two months probably also had nothing to do with the stroke (an acute event) if that is what it truly was. So you should feel sad, but maybe not as furious as you are. Definitely check with the director about normal procedures.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: August 09, 2024 03:43PM
Quote
dk62
Jerry, I feel for you, but it seems your mom weathered this quite well - believe me, my mother died 3 months after her stroke and those 3 months were beyond horrible.

I also understand your anger, but note that, as many have stated, nursing homes are understaffed and old people do complain frequently. The fact that your mom was telling nursing staff for two months that something is wrong was probably one of the reasons they ignored the latest issue, and those two months probably also had nothing to do with the stroke (an acute event) if that is what it truly was. So you should feel sad, but maybe not as furious as you are. Definitely check with the director about normal procedures.

I appreciate the thoughts. My mom is doing a lot better last time I talked with her a little while ago. I understand retirement homes are understaffed, old people complain, etc but I don't think that's a good excuse for how my mom was treated. I found out last night after talking with my mom and the ER nurse that my mom hadn't been eating for 6 weeks except for some yogurt every now and then because she says she "can feel something in her throat when she tries to swallow" - which makes her gag - and throw up - something I witnessed in the ER room with her. My mom is a retired RN so she knows they should have investigated her complaints more thoroughly and taken her more seriously. The night of the stroke, she pressed her emergency button and the nurse came in - as she was having the stroke - and said to the CNA with her "Uh...just monitor her..." and both left and nothing was done. I think I'm allowed to be upset. This is elder abuse in my book. You don't treat old people like trash and ignore health complaints because they're grumpy. If they are understaffed, I'm sure - with how much my mom has to pay to be in the retirement home - they could certainly hire on more.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2024 03:47PM by Jerry®.
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Re: My mom had a stroke - her nurses brushed it off and she almost didnt make it.
Posted by: Jerry®
Date: August 09, 2024 04:11PM
Quote
hal
That's great Jerry - great that you and the family are staying in touch

Thank you hal!!!



Master Tinkerer Jerry®
My Amazon WISH List updated Jan 2025

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Help me MacResource users, you're my only hope!
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