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How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 18, 2007 04:41PM
Ow, ow, owwww... my brain hurts. I tried to give Safari on Windows another chance. I get the virtual equivalent of having a door slammed on my brain/fingers every time I try to customize it. My conclusion is that Apple never had a single tester that used Firefox for Windows and understands the GUI (as bad as it is).

How do I get the Bookmarks to open in a sidebar? How do I get my imported bookmarks to show up in the root of the bookmarks folder? Why can't I configure the middle click to open a bookmark in a new Tab (have to right click and scroll down the drop down menu to Open In New Tab like Netscape 6.1 [or is it even earlier than that])?

Why is it when I open on the Bookmarks main menu in an empty tab and click on Hide All Bookmarks, it opens up another instance of Bookmarks? One minor consistency is, after I open up Bookmarks in the second tab, selecting Open All Bookmarks in the first tab closes the Bookmarks in that tab.

When I open up Bookmarks in a Tab, I have "Collections" as the tab title and the following as the list below:
Bookmarks Bar
Bookmarks Menu
Bonjour
History
All RSS feeds
Imported Mozilla Favorites
Bookmarks Menu
untitled folder
untitled folder
untitled folder
untitled folder <-- created when I tried to drag a bookmark into the root

Why are there two Bookmarks Bar and Bookmarks Menu entries? Why is the History in the Bookmarks folder?

I just want to set it up so I do not have to click three to five times to open one of the 30 bookmarks that I check daily. It is like they had two different schizophrenic programmers working on it on alternating weeks, one used to Windows and the other used to OS X.



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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: June 18, 2007 04:43PM
Hubris.
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 18, 2007 04:49PM
Quote
Seacrest
Hubris.

I will admit I have not used Safari 2 on OS X for more than about an hour, but I am really looking for help on this. Go use it on Windows yourself and tell me you understand how to configure it for what I want.



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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 18, 2007 04:51PM
bookmarks have never been in a sidebar in safari





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 18, 2007 04:58PM
Quote
jdc
bookmarks have never been in a sidebar in safari

Okay, then is there at least a way to get items to show up in the root of the Bookmarks menu so I do not have to scroll and pause to open up the "Bookmarks Bar"?



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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 18, 2007 04:59PM
>>I get the virtual equivalent of having a door slammed on my brain/fingers every time I try to customize it.

Did you miss the fact that its a BETA?
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: chas_m
Date: June 18, 2007 05:01PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
How do I get the Bookmarks to open in a sidebar?

You don't. This is Safari; Safari has a way of doing bookmarks. Use that way.

Quote

How do I get my imported bookmarks to show up in the root of the bookmarks folder?

drag and drop the "imported bookmarks" folder where you want it, OR select-all the important bookmarks and drag them (or Copy them) into the folder you want. Simple.

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Why can't I configure the middle click to open a bookmark in a new Tab?

I'm sure that's customisable, but in the meantime just option-click (or alt-click, I'm not at a Win machine at the moment) to do that.

It would probably help if you really understood how to do these things in the Mac version. That would probably cut WAY down on your questions for the Windows version.

My limited experience with the Windows version of Safari is that it's lightning-fast, accurate and stable. These are the things I care about in a browser. Having upteen toolbars and plug-ins are not (apart from blocking flash ads, THAT would be important to me). This may make me quite different from most Windows users, but I think most people who are testing Safari for Windows miss the point.

Safari for Windows has ZERO interest in taking over the Windows web-browsing space.

It's SOLE purpose for existing is to give iPhone users a full-blown version of the browser they are using on their phone, and one less reason not to switch to a Mac when the time comes.



chas_m




[crawlingfromtheusa.blogspot.com] <-- Moving to Canada blog
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: June 18, 2007 05:37PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
Seacrest
Hubris.

I will admit I have not used Safari 2 on OS X for more than about an hour, but I am really looking for help on this. Go use it on Windows yourself and tell me you understand how to configure it for what I want.

You asked how Apple got Safari [BETA] on Windows so wrong, and I answered that question.
I have used it on Windows, however I have no idea how -- or if even it is possible -- to accomplish what you want.
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 18, 2007 06:20PM
Quote
Seacrest
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
Seacrest
Hubris.

I will admit I have not used Safari 2 on OS X for more than about an hour, but I am really looking for help on this. Go use it on Windows yourself and tell me you understand how to configure it for what I want.

You asked how Apple got Safari [BETA] on Windows so wrong, and I answered that question.
I have used it on Windows, however I have no idea how -- or if even it is possible -- to accomplish what you want.

Oh, so you are accusing Apple of hubris and not me? That makes me feel a little better.


(think simple, think simple) I figured out that the Bookmarks Menu icon in the Collections column represents the Bookmarks Menu root folder. But that means that the Bookmarks Bar entry above it, should actually be *in* the Bookmarks Menu folder since that is where it displays when the Bookmarks Menu is opened. They are not following the hierarchical concept very well. When I drag items out of my imported bookmarks folder and into the Bookmarks Menu folder, the active window jumps down to display the bottom folder in the Collections column.

I can see why Safari is so fast. It seems to use 20% to 25% of available CPU cycles for any tab with with a flash banner, even if it is not the front most tab or the Window/application is minimized. Opening up four different tabs with flash content runs CPU usage to 100%. Is Safari fast? Yes! Is Safari a processor hog? Yes!

My next question is, what does putting a check in the Auto-click box do for items in the Bookmarks Bar? There is no entry for Auto-click in the Help file.



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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: chas_m
Date: June 18, 2007 07:44PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
(think simple, think simple)

Yes, I suspect now you are on the right course. Most people overthink computer apps, especially if they're coming from Windows to the Mac.

Quote

Is Safari fast? Yes! Is Safari a processor hog? Yes!

Again, please read up on the definition of "beta" as pertains to computer software. Keep reading it until you GET IT. Ta.

Quote

My next question is, what does putting a check in the Auto-click box do for items in the Bookmarks Bar? There is no entry for Auto-click in the Help file.

First off, BRAVO for looking in the help file before asking here. Gad I wish more people would. And yes, it *is* a curious omission isn't it?

Anyway, you'll notice that you can select "Auto-Click" only next to FOLDERS of bookmarks, ie multiple bookmarks grouped together. When this is done, it changes the folder into one that will automatically open in tabs all bookmarks within that folder as soon as the folder is selected. Gather three or four related bookmarks into a folder, select "Auto-Click" and see for yourself. It's handy.



chas_m




[crawlingfromtheusa.blogspot.com] <-- Moving to Canada blog
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: onthedownlow
Date: June 18, 2007 08:58PM
*sigh*

More like an alpha-build than a beta-build. Beta has been redefined these days.

I love it, when it works...but I would say that on at least 12 out of 16 machines I tested it on...crashes...menus don't show...pages do not load correctly (even Apple's own site). This is not beta-material for public consumption. (this is even with the quickly-released .0.1 update).

Definitely not ready for prime-time. I believe they should of tweaked it a little more and prepped it for a simul-release with the iPhone; while still announcing/demo'ing it at WWDC.



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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: June 19, 2007 12:58AM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
How do I get the Bookmarks to open in a sidebar?

You don't. OTOH, you can get them to open in the Bookmarks Bar.

Quote

How do I get my imported bookmarks to show up in the root of the bookmarks folder?

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but you can drag-and-drop to reposition bookmarks 'till the cows come home.

Quote

Why can't I configure the middle click to open a bookmark in a new Tab

I don't know. Ask the mouse manufacturer.

Quote

(have to right click and scroll down the drop down menu to Open In New Tab like Netscape 6.1 [or is it even earlier than that])?

No, you don't: control-click the bookmark.

Quote

Why is it when I open on the Bookmarks main menu in an empty tab and click on Hide All Bookmarks, it opens up another instance of Bookmarks? One minor consistency is, after I open up Bookmarks in the second tab, selecting Open All Bookmarks in the first tab closes the Bookmarks in that tab.

Huh?

Quote

When I open up Bookmarks in a Tab, I have "Collections" as the tab title and the following as the list below:
Bookmarks Bar
Bookmarks Menu
Bonjour
History
All RSS feeds
Imported Mozilla Favorites
Bookmarks Menu
untitled folder
untitled folder
untitled folder
untitled folder <-- created when I tried to drag a bookmark into the root

Why are there two Bookmarks Bar and Bookmarks Menu entries? Why is the History in the Bookmarks folder?

I see only one Bookmarks Bar entry. I guess you created the second Bookmarks menu entry. Because the History is a set of bookmarks. Seems logical to me.

Quote

I just want to set it up so I do not have to click three to five times to open one of the 30 bookmarks that I check daily.

No problem: Create a new folder in your Bookmarks Bar, add your 30 bookmarks to that folder, and check "Auto-click." Now a single click on that new folder in your Bookmarks Bar will open all 30 bookmarked sites, each in its own tab. Cool, huh?

Quote

It is like they had two different schizophrenic programmers working on it on alternating weeks, one used to Windows and the other used to OS X.

They're just trying to fix Windows, one application at a time...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2007 12:59AM by Article Accelerator.
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 19, 2007 08:50AM
Quote
Article Accelerator
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
How do I get the Bookmarks to open in a sidebar?

You don't. OTOH, you can get them to open in the Bookmarks Bar.

Read the thread, already answered.

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Article Accelerator
Quote

How do I get my imported bookmarks to show up in the root of the bookmarks folder?

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but you can drag-and-drop to reposition bookmarks 'till the cows come home.

Read the thread, already answered.

Quote
Article Accelerator

Quote

Why can't I configure the middle click to open a bookmark in a new Tab

I don't know. Ask the mouse manufacturer.

It works fine in IE 7 and Firefox 1.0x through 2.0x

Quote
Article Accelerator

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(have to right click and scroll down the drop down menu to Open In New Tab like Netscape 6.1 [or is it even earlier than that])?

No, you don't: control-click the bookmark.

Quote

Why is it when I open on the Bookmarks main menu in an empty tab and click on Hide All Bookmarks, it opens up another instance of Bookmarks? One minor consistency is, after I open up Bookmarks in the second tab, selecting Open All Bookmarks in the first tab closes the Bookmarks in that tab.

Huh?

My point exactly. Try it on a Windows box and see for yourself or just let it go.

Quote
Article Accelerator

Quote

When I open up Bookmarks in a Tab, I have "Collections" as the tab title and the following as the list below:
Bookmarks Bar
Bookmarks Menu
Bonjour
History
All RSS feeds
Imported Mozilla Favorites
Bookmarks Menu
untitled folder
untitled folder
untitled folder
untitled folder <-- created when I tried to drag a bookmark into the root

Why are there two Bookmarks Bar and Bookmarks Menu entries? Why is the History in the Bookmarks folder?

I see only one Bookmarks Bar entry. I guess you created the second Bookmarks menu entry. Because the History is a set of bookmarks. Seems logical to me.

I apparently left out the second Bookmarks Bar entry when I was typing it up to post here.

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Article Accelerator

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I just want to set it up so I do not have to click three to five times to open one of the 30 bookmarks that I check daily.

As I said earlier, if I open four tabs at once with flash banners, CPU cycles go to 100%. If I made the mistake of trying to open 30 at once, it would crash the machine.

No problem: Create a new folder in your Bookmarks Bar, add your 30 bookmarks to that folder, and check "Auto-click." Now a single click on that new folder in your Bookmarks Bar will open all 30 bookmarked sites, each in its own tab. Cool, huh?

As I said earlier, if I open four tabs at once with flash banners, CPU cycles go to 100%. If I made the mistake of trying to open 30 at once, it would crash the machine. Firefox, IE 6 & 7 can all open at least 10 windows/tabs without maxing out the CPU.

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It is like they had two different schizophrenic programmers working on it on alternating weeks, one used to Windows and the other used to OS X.

They're just trying to fix Windows, one application at a time...

Apple has totally ignored the major Windows GUI guidelines with the way the program window works. "Fixing" a single Windows program so that it works like no other (except maybe iTunes) might not be the best way to go.



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2007 08:54AM by Filliam H. Muffman.
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: June 19, 2007 01:50PM
Quote

As I said earlier, if I open four tabs at once with flash banners, CPU cycles go to 100%. If I made the mistake of trying to open 30 at once, it would crash the machine. Firefox, IE 6 & 7 can all open at least 10 windows/tabs without maxing out the CPU.

I don't think the machine will crash but Safari may. Try the technique--I think you'll like it. You're reducing your '120 clicks' to just one. I think that's worth the effort.

In the meantime, I expect Apple to keep Safari for Windows updated; keep your eyes open.

Quote

Apple has totally ignored the major Windows GUI guidelines

I didn't know there were any. If there are, Apple has lots of company in ignoring them. Microsoft providing GUI guidelines for Windows is like the farmer closing the doors after the cows have left the barn... (I like cows.)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2007 01:56PM by Article Accelerator.
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Re: How did Apple get Safari for Windows so wrong?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: June 19, 2007 04:29PM
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Article Accelerator
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As I said earlier, if I open four tabs at once with flash banners, CPU cycles go to 100%. If I made the mistake of trying to open 30 at once, it would crash the machine. Firefox, IE 6 & 7 can all open at least 10 windows/tabs without maxing out the CPU.

I don't think the machine will crash but Safari may. Try the technique--I think you'll like it. You're reducing your '120 clicks' to just one. I think that's worth the effort.

In the meantime, I expect Apple to keep Safari for Windows updated; keep your eyes open.

I got 5 tabs open doing it one at a time before Safari froze. I am still able to type this reply but it is the first time I have ever been able to type faster than the computer can display and everything is crawling. I was able to quit Safari just now but I would save my work and restart the machine if I was doing anything important.

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Article Accelerator
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Apple has totally ignored the major Windows GUI guidelines

I didn't know there were any. If there are, Apple has lots of company in ignoring them. Microsoft providing GUI guidelines for Windows is like the farmer closing the doors after the cows have left the barn... (I like cows.)

Okay, at least you are admitting your ignorance now.



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