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Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 09:39AM
If so, is that right around the corner? Like going to happen before students go back to school? I want to start burning high definition video on to DVDs, and the only way to do that now is to compress them down in size since 27GB files don't fit natively on a normal DVD-R (dual layer or not). :-) There are no affordable external solutions at the moment. Toast will burn to Blu-Ray but only data discs and not movie/video DVDs.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: onthedownlow
Date: July 06, 2007 09:45AM
Blu-Ray



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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 06, 2007 09:49AM
The price of the drives themselves is high enough at OEM purchase volumes that I don't expect Apple to include one even as an option until next year. Definitely not in time for "Back-to-School" sales to have them.



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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 09:54AM
So, I should go ahead and pull the trigger on a current generation iMac 20" machine then? I'll put the 500GB drive in it and max the ATI 1600 video card with 256MB of memory, and load it up with 3GB of RAM.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: July 06, 2007 09:58AM
It definitely isn't going to be an option on the iMacs first. It will probably be a BTO option on the MacPro and then many months later become standard across the board.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 06, 2007 10:11AM
If you need a new computer now, that looks to be a good configuration if it will meet your other current needs. But if your next machine absolutely must be able to handle burning hi-def video, you might want to wait until system requirements are known. But that could be a 6-12 month wait.



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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 10:17AM
Well, I'm doing it now on a 1.25GHz eMac with 1GB of RAM. :-) It is painfully slow. I am still in G4 land. Never owned a G5 and now Intels have been around for a while (Core Duo and Core 2 Duo machines). I am falling generations behind. None of this is for me to make a living. It is not my business. Just my home machine for fun and hobby type stuff. Family videos, school plays and concerts and then just recording high definition material using my EyeTV 500 box. At 8GB an hour, recording a football game (one of my hobbies) is about 24-27GBs. Then editing out the commercials from the 3.5 hour tv broadcast, I am usally left with about a 16GB file that Toast then has to compress again to get it to fit on a dual-layer DVD. It's clearer than normal standard defintion recordings I make on my EyeTV 200 box, but I pay a penalty for often times having to wait upwards of 4 days for all of the multiplexing and encoding that needs to take place.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 06, 2007 10:22AM
if you have waited this long, another month or so for updated imacs would be a good idea

dont buy now unless you have to





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 06, 2007 10:46AM
It will include support for both via software. Apple will support Blu-ray in terms of hardware but I don't expect Blu-ray drives even as a BTO in the iMac line until next year. Maybe this year for Mac Pro, but don't hold your breath.

External Blu-ray is available now, [eshop.macsales.com] though, as you note, they're not very affordable. Expect a big price drop after Christmastime.

As for what you should get now, I usually say get what you need when you need it and damn the torpedoes. However, jdc (and others) are right on the money -- if you've waited this long, I'd wait a little longer; the last iMac release was September 2006, a refresh is imminent, IMO: [buyersguide.macrumors.com]







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2007 10:51AM by Zoidberg.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 10:46AM
I suppose. The problem is I can't find anywhere where it says a new iMac is coming out in August, September, October, etc. We just all know that another one will eventually come out. Then the question shifts to do you buy the one that is currently out now, then, or do you wait longer? What I mean is that perhaps you can get a good deal on a current iMac that costs $1,499 now, and get it for $1,299 because there is a new iMac out. However, first generation Rev. A models are notorious for having issues. So, then you end up convincing yourself to wait until the Rev. B models come out. LOL!! It almost never ends. Stability, features and price, versus desire, need and wants. :-)
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 06, 2007 10:57AM
If not by Macworld in Paris (what the hell do they call that one these days?), right after. I wouldn't expect them to go more than a year without a new iMac release.

I do wish Apple'd stick to kind of a loose release schedule, but that'll never happen. The Macrumors page I link is usually a good barometer of what to expect, though, at least anecdotally.



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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 11:08AM
Thanks. That buyersguide page is at least something. Hmmmm. I guess I will wait a little longer. The Blu-Ray burner from OWC (Macsales.com) will actually burn Blu-Ray DVD hi-def videos? I mean I can burn my files to the blanks and play them on a Sony Blu-ray set-top standalone machine and/or Playstation 3, the same way I play standard definition dvds now on any DVD player in the house or on my Xbox 360? If so, I may just go ahead and buy the upgraded 20" iMac and this external burner and then the expensive blanks and have fun while waiting perhaps another year before they come standard in all iMacs.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Spiff
Date: July 06, 2007 11:14AM
I agree that if you need it, get it now. You will always be waiting for that carrot and it will never get it, cause that carrot will change into something new (video cards, processors, Blu ray, etc etc).

I pulled the trigger about a month ago and I am thrilled. I love coming to work now, 'cause my computer now does what it should quickly, not slowly. I got the 20" iMac with 500gb drive, 2 MB RAM and upgraded video. Love it!

Parallels is zippy. Windows on it is insanely easy to install. Works great! Got AVG and spybot doing their jobs. All good stuff.

Good luck! Don't kill yourself waiting.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 06, 2007 11:23AM
Playing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movies will not be supported in the OS until Leopard. While Apple is frequently an early adopter, I would not expect full support until the battle for supremacy between the formats is a little clearer.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 06, 2007 11:28AM
Not to start a flame war, but Blu-ray will win. Here's a lengthy read from [www.thedigitalbits.com] , which outlines one of the many reasons:

Quote

And around the Net today, here's an indication of just how bitterly this high-def format war is being fought (and how desperate the HD-DVD camp is becoming in battling Blu-ray Disc). The Wall Street Journal today has a story on how the European Union's European Commission is investigating the HD format war. Specifically, Microsoft and Toshiba have asked the EU to investigate the Blu-ray camp for anti-trust violations (a tactic they've tried unsuccessfully here in the U.S. in the past as well). Here's the relevant text from the story: "The HD DVD camp has been lobbying the commission to draw attention to Blu-ray's tactics in the movie capital in a bid to force more studios to put their product on HD DVD, according to people familiar with the situation." In other words, the HD-DVD camp can't seem to win this war based on consumer sales alone, even after slashing their hardware prices, so now they're trying other measures to try to force the many Blu-ray exclusive Hollywood studios to support their format too.

This is what you need to know: The Christmas shopping season this year is almost certainly going to make or break HD-DVD. The HD-DVD camp knows this as well as anyone. (We suspect that this is one of the reasons Warner has delayed their TotalHD combo plans until early next year - after the holidays to see how things play out.) The HD-DVD camp's media rhetoric seems to have shifted dramatically in recent months from how they're going to win to how they're going to survive. They must know that if software sales trends continue the way they have so far this year in favor of Blu-ray, many other retailers are going to follow Blockbuster in favoring that format alone. So the HD-DVD camp is doing everything they can just to stay in the game, from additional hardware price cuts, to announcements like "HD-DVD gets 1000 movies from Amazon" (except not really because they haven't been made yet and the deal - according to Amazon - is non-exclusive and open to Blu-ray as well) and on and on. But here is the reality: According to Tom Adams, president of Adams Media (from the WSJ story), 105,000 stand-alone Blu-ray players have sold to date compared to about 150,000 HD-DVD players. However, 1.5 million PlayStation 3s are in the hands of consumers (which can all play Blu-ray movies) compared to 160,000 who have purchased HD-DVD add-on drives for the Xbox 360. So the market right now is roughly 1.6 million Blu-ray capable machines compared to 310,000 HD-DVD machines. Even if only a small fraction of PS3 owners are watching movies (and given the 2 or 3 to 1 Blu-ray software sales edge despite the smaller number of stand-alone Blu-ray machines in the market, at least some MUST be), there's still no contest. Compounding the HD-DVD camp's problems, their stand-alone hardware sales forecasts are being downgraded even despite dramatic hardware price cuts, while Blu-ray stand-alone hardware prices are slowly but steadily dropping too. In other words, price is the only advantage the HD-DVD camp has left... and by this time next year that advantage is likely to largely evaporate. (Though we wouldn't be shocked to see Toshiba cut their player prices to $199 or even lower for the holidays in a last ditch attempt to move large numbers of units.)

What all this means to you, is that Blu-ray is rapidly becoming the clear choice. In our opinion, there's just no chance that HD-DVD is going to win this format war, and the HD-DVD camp's increasingly desperate moves now should make that obvious to all. With Blu-ray hardware prices dropping, and with Fox and MGM about to start adding their catalog titles to the BD exclusive title slate of Disney, Sony, Lionsgate and now Anchor Bay/Starz (not to mention all the great BD titles coming from Warner and Paramount), if you've been thinking about getting into high-def discs, now's a great time to jump in with Blu-ray. And if you'd rather wait a little longer for lower prices and greater hardware and software selection... there's still nothing wrong with existing DVD in the meantime. Regardless, we've said from the very beginning that this HD format war wasn't going to be good for anyone. But the writing seems to be on the wall at this point and, with a little luck, we'll see the last gasps of this skirmish play out by Christmas. At this rate, the CES convention in January 2008 is likely to be VERY interesting indeed.



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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 11:36AM
Thanks for that article.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: OWC Jamie
Date: July 06, 2007 11:45AM
I can not officially comment on everything I am sure you want to know.....

But you could use DVD Studio Pro to create a HD DVD VIDEO_TS folder then use Toast 8 to burn the VIDEO_TS folder to a Blu-Ray disc.

I'm sure there are other ways to do the same. smiling smiley



Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Silencio
Date: July 06, 2007 11:49AM
Apple is officially part of the Blu-Ray group, as is Disney. So they will offer native support of Blu-Ray at some point (most likely with the release of Leopard); the question is whether they'll offer any support for HD-DVD of any kind.

Microsoft, in their usual fashion these days, really screwed HD-DVD out of any chance of competing by making the HD-DVD player for the Xbox 360 an add-on purchase, whereas Sony's PlayStation 3 is built around a Blu-Ray drive (at least the PS3 can claim to be a success at something!). And in further Microsoft fashion, they're rolling out the FUD campaign to try to convince people that HD-DVD is still relevant, but it seems obvious how this is going to play out.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 06, 2007 12:11PM
Oh, I just saw that Fry's is selling a Sony laptop with a BD-RW drive for $1900. I can not imagine Apple being more than a couple of months behind.

Direct link to the ad image [img.travidia.com]



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 06, 2007 12:20PM
It will be sometime before Apple *includes* Blu-Ray (the side Apple has chosen) in an iMac.

And I bet we won't see that as a BTO option this year, or on an iMac first. As pricey as these drives are, Apple will charge far more, as is their usual practice.

Both variants are still pricey as third-party purchases, let alone an Apple Option.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 12:55PM
Filliam,

I can't read the fine print in that Frys ad. What are the asterisks or footnote numbers talking about. It seems it may be able to playback Blu-ray movies, but I'm not clear if it will playback my homemade movies frmo the EyeTV 500 or my Canon HV20 high definition camcorder. Then there seems to be an asterisk or footnote after the part where it seemingly does say that I can burn it to a Blu-ray disk. Could it be it is saying just a data disk and not a video?
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 06, 2007 02:20PM
raypan1, I am not really familiar with the difference between commercial movies and home recorded content for Blu-Ray. From what I could read, user generated HD content gets burned as MP2 files. I do not know if you can record a disc to play in a generic home video player. I would guess it will be problematic for a couple of months.

Here is the detail of the small print.


This is a link to the active ad with clickable/popup details.
[newspaperads.mercurynews.com]



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 02:33PM
Filliam,

Thanks. I wonder why MP2 files and not M2V files? MP2 files are the audio component of a demltiplexed audio/video file. In other words, an MPEG elementary stream. That might work better for me if I use DVD Studio Pro though. I'll have to do some research.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 06, 2007 05:27PM
ThinkSecret is tracking the new iMac for August release: [www.thinksecret.com]

(Man, I'm all about the articles today, eh?)

Quote

Next-generation iMac tracking for August

July 6, 2007 - Apple's next iMac revision is currently tracking for release in August, sources say. The iMac, which will be based on similar internals as the recent MacBook Pro revision, will sport a brushed aluminum enclosure and will measure just two inches thick.

The elegant new enclosure will somewhat resemble the current white iMac but is said to feature a shorter space below the actual display, where most of the internals are housed.

It was exactly 10 months ago today that Apple introduced the current iMac—which in and of itself represented only a minor speed bump from the first-generation Intel iMac, which debuted in January 2006—marking an unusually long gap between revisions. Sources originally expected the iMac upgrade to appear in June; it is unclear whether the change in date was a result of misinformation or revision to the product's roadmap.

As previously reported, the upcoming iMac revision will debut only in 20- and 24-inch varieties, with the 17-inch model set to disappear. Speeds will top out at 2.4GHz, the current high-end for Intel's new Santa Rosa platform.




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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 05:38PM
Zoidberg,

You are awesome. Thanks. I prefer the white iMac I think. :-) Brushed aluminum doesn't do much for me. Not much difference between a 2.33GHz iMac and a 2.4GHz iMac for my purposes. However, I doubt the "old" 2.33GHz iMac will get a price drop. They will simply sell what they have at current prices and not manufacture any more. So, if I like the white then I better go ahead and get a 2.33Ghz model now and just max it out. Too bad I can't get the GeForce 7300 card vice the ATI 1600 video card with a 20" iMac.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 06, 2007 06:05PM
As always, happy to be of service.

And, hey, don't forget the bargains to (sometimes) be had at the refurb section of The Apple Store online. I'm seeing all three C2D models up; the 17" is $1049, the 20" version is $1299, and the 24" is $1699.



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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: rapayn1
Date: July 06, 2007 06:17PM
I've been eyeing that section too. However, the refurbs seem to be the standard configurations. There may be "silent upgrades", but you can't bank on that. I want a 20" in the 2.33GHz configuration with a 500GB hard drive, then upgraded ATI 1600 video card, and then I will buy my own 3GB ram upgrade from OWC and install that myself. All I have seen in the refurb section is the 2.16GHz 20" iMac Core 2 Duo with the 128MB video card and the 250GB hard drive and they don't let you customize the refurbs.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 06, 2007 06:57PM
If you want that, and want it in the white casing, then my recommendation goes from "wait" to "hurry". If Apple drops the new line next month, don't expect the old line to hang around. I can't recall them leaving a previous form factor available *except* in the refurb section.



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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 06, 2007 10:02PM
When a new Mac comes out, the one it replaced is no longer available from Apple, except as Zoid mentioned- as a refurb.

It sounds like the rumor folk have the iMac set to resemble an Apple Display. I don't care for that look, and if Apple were to go to aluminum, I wish they'd anodize it black.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Will Apple Include Blu-Ray or HD-DVD In the Next iMac?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 07, 2007 09:15AM
A darker frame does make for a better looking image.

What I'm interested in is whether or not the new iMac will have glossy or matte, or an option for one or the other. Glossy sure as hell hasn't hurt MacBook sales, and everyone I (personally) know loves the image quality, switchers and Mac people alike. (I know I love the look on my 15" MBP.)

What I do *not* anticipate is touch-screen. A lot of people are buzzing that Apple's going to start doing this across the board. While it may get into the line at some point, it ain't gonna be just yet.



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