Do brake lines rust through and fail? I've owned a lot of old cars here and never had brake lines fail. I own a 1992 Nissan Sentra and live in the snow belt (Iowa). I just had brake work done that resulted in the replacement of the rear calipers (4 wheel disk brakes with ABS). Shortly after receiving the car back from the shop I noticed that the brakes seemed soft and spongy. As soon as I arrived home I did check the brake master cylinder and found the fluid nearly empty. After filling the master cylinder I pressed firmly on the brake pedal and felt it slowly fade to the floor (engine not running). Looking under the car I found a small wet spot by the back left wheel. I couldn't locate the precise spot of the leak, but the mechanic took the car back to his shop and claimed that the brake lines had rusted through due to the anti-icing solution used during winters here in Iowa (calcium chloride). So, how likely is it that the brake lines did rust through or is it more likely they were damaged during the replacement of the calipers? Thanks for any helpful input!

Dave

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...on the trailing edge of technology.

I had some rust through on a '75 VW Rabbit so it's not unheard of especially where the roads are heavily salted.

In the case of the Rabbit it was also a materials failure and there was a service advisory on them so they were fixed for free

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Yes, they do rust and fail. I have removed more than a few that had rusted through and run new ones in cars. Though I last went to that level of work in the late '80's and early '90's. I had heard that some of the car makers were switching to stainless steel for metal brake lines, but have not worked on enough older cars recently to know for certain.

As for the mechanic's claim, it is the law here that they have to provide the removed parts for you to inspect if you ask. Does that apply where you are?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2007 10:44PM by JoeH.

lafinfil- I wouldn't have been suspicious, but we previously owned a 1985 Camry for over 15 years and never had brake lines fail. It seemed strange that the brake lines would fail just after the calipers were replaced. I suppose the removal and installation of the calipers could have stressed the brake lines... Thanks for your input!

Dave

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...on the trailing edge of technology.

The first mechanic did a brake job and he failed to detect a major safety issues on the brake system. I would recommend you get this fixed by another mechanic, do not let the first mechanic touch the brakes again.

Also, it seems strange that this happened right after the repair, what is the chance of that? It looks very suspicious IMHO

space-time- several factors made me concerned. This (2 man) shop has done repair for us for many years. During that time I've never had any reason to question their skills or honesty. In the past they were very busy and we would have to wait a week or more to get our car checked. This last time they were surprisingly lacking in business and had us bring the car right in. At first I thought we were just lucky, but after this I've started to wonder. Thanks for your suggestions!

Dave

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...on the trailing edge of technology.

As I think about this, what concerns me the most is the fact that the brakes failed so soon (15 minutes) after the replacement of the calipers. This bothers me even more than whether he personally caused the failure of the brake line. He claimed to have road tested the car (brakes), but I am wondering how much of a road test actually occurred. Thanks for your help!

Dave

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...on the trailing edge of technology.

"I suppose the removal and installation of the calipers could have stressed the brake lines... "

Quite possible.

Depending on the size of the hole a short road test would not have drained enough fluid to cause concern.

I would agree that probably what happened was the work done caused some stress on the already rusting brakes lines, initiating the failure. I don' t know about your car, but my 20 year old Toyota has flexible rubber lines running from the frame to the calipers so that any movement there will not damage the brake lines.

Happens here on the coast all the time.
Older cars seem to not have stainless lines, the newer cars do.

What symptoms prompted the brake job? Spongy pedal, fluid loss, lack of stopping power, or just mileage?

Calipers are connected by hoses to the rigid steel line. Mechanic likely didn't touch steel brake lines unless you also bought brake hoses.

I had a brake line rust through on an old Chevy. No warning at all. Good solid brakes one minute, then on a hard brake application, the pedal "squished" to the floor. A few more pumps and the fluid was gone and no braking at all.

He could have done a routine road test, with no symptom of the impending failure. But, part of any brake job should include standing on the brake pedal harder than one would in a panic stop.
THAT should have ruptured the rusted out brake line. So, unless he can show you the failure point in the brake line, and it's not around the fitting where clumsy wrenching would cause failure, you should be looking for an honest mechanic. Good luck!

"He claimed to have road tested the car (brakes), but I am wondering how much of a road test actually occurred."

That's a big clue, usually means a on site check, rolling forward breaking and rolling backward!

Actually, road tests are usually run on a transmission or engine rebuild!

Brake lines do rust through. It is very difficult, even with close inspection, to predict when a line will fail just by looking at surface rust. This is something that many mechanics will overlook, not intentionally, but because line failure happens so seldom.

Replacement of calipers should not have affected the condition of the metal brake lines. They are fixed/clamped to the frame structure to prevent flexing. A flexible hose is connected to them from each wheel assembly because wheels move up and down and turn. The end of that hose at the caliper is what is removed during caliper replacement. The other hose end is only removed if the hose needs replacing.

I would not necessarily suspect the mechanic of dereliction given the little info available. It takes years and a lot of miles for brake lines to rust through in the snow belt.

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Ed (modelamac)

Trying to figure out some people is like trying to smell the number 9.

l had a brake line fail on me last Friday. It worked fine the week before. Start the truck up, went about 1/4 mile and applied the brakes for a stop sign. Pedal went right to the floor, but the truck stopped. The line running from front to back was leaking. Unfortunately, I can't buy the pre-bent line and will have to bend it myself. Interestingly enough, it is the only line that is showing any significant signs of rust.

Hi everyone,

I can vouch for brake lines rusting through. That happened to my 1996 Jeep recently. I was lucky my mechanic caught the problem because they were far gone enough they nearly snapped. Makes me happy I switched to a new mechanic because the old one never checked the lines. The new mechanic showed me the parts and I was astonished they'd held up for such a long time. They were that far gone.

And, for the record, Stainless Steel _can_ rust as well as spark. Just not as quickly or easily as other metals.

Robert

Thanks for all of the helpful input! It is sincerely appreciated. My plan when I pick the car up today is to (in a calm neutral way) ask to see the old brake lines. I'm guessing that I should be able to see clear signs of rust on the brake lines, is that correct? Anything else I should look for? Thanks again for all of your help!

Dave

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...on the trailing edge of technology.

Dik-2- What prompted the caliper replacement was the left rear caliper was sticking on (dragging) constantly. Also, I knew that the pads were thin and needed replacement. Other than those concerns the brakes had been working fine. Thanks!

Dave

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...on the trailing edge of technology.

Many times the fitting seizes to the brake line and in removing it, the line can get twisted. We used to have to heat the fittings to free them when I lived in WI, and even so, we frequently had to change them. Another place where a steel brake line can fail is at the clip securing it to the frame or axle. Vibration can cause wear if the fit isn't perfectly tight.
I doubt you were taken advantage of by the shop if you've been a regular customer. It could be a coincidence coupled with an unfortunately haphazard inspection. I expect he will be glad to show you the brake line and explain why the failure occured, once he's replaced it.

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Came out to my 92 F150 one morning recently and on starting the brake pedal went to the floor. Checked fluid level. Dry.
Looked under vehicle. Puddle of fluid. Towed to mechanic. Rusted brake line. He replaced both front lines. Stuff happens.

I worked in a repair shop for 3 years and saw only one brake line rupture from rust. The rust was on the inside, so the outside of the line looked fine. It was an old VW and the rustout was at a low dip in the line -- water tends to settle on the bottom of brake systems.

If you've been otherwise happy with the shop you're dealing with, I'd tread very lightly to avoid appearing that you don't trust them. You seem to have a good relationship that might be worth preserving. There are so many bad shops out there - a good one is worth its weight in gold.

Just say "Wow, I'm glad you caught that rust leak. I'd love to look at the tubing to see what one looks like rusted out"

Quote
Racer X
Just say "...I'd love to look at the tubing to see what one looks like rusted out"

Now that sounds really believable...NOT!

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

I had a fuel line rust thru. Had to cut out a couple of feet to get back to solid line.

I had a copper brake line fail, but it was a wierd failure - not 100% certain it was a corrosion failure.

What olnaci said.