. . .I smell a lawsuit. . .


. . .Director Manuel A. Mollinedo acknowledged that the wall was 12 1/2 feet — well below the 16.4-foot minimum height suggested by the Association of Zoos & Aquariums. . .


[www.foxnews.com]

---

_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

In other news, there is an Association of Zoos & Aquariums...

how's that work, A squared + B squared = C squared...

That's a 23.5' leap going 12.5' up and 20' over. For some reason I think the extra 2.3' wasn't going to make a big difference.

It'll be interesting once the facts come out.

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It's true the height of the wall was overstated in the original reports, but, on the other hand, the width of the moat was much understated. According to the article linked below, the first statements were that the wall was 18 feet high and the moat was 20 feet wide. They're now saying the wall is only 12 feet, 5 inches, but that the moat is 33 feet across. Given the tiger would have had to clear both the moat and the wall, that's one heck of a leap for a zoo animal. The article I read also says there was no shoe inside the enclosure but a shoeprint was found on the railing of the fence surrounding the enclosure, and police are checking it against the shoes of the three victims.

It is indeed a mystery, but I somehow think that tiger didn't just look up and suddenly decide to have those three particular guys as an evening snack.

[apnews.myway.com]

An extra 2+ feet on the diagonal distance, but almost 4 feet extra vertical. Takes quite a bit more energy to lift that 300 lbs of tiger the extra height against gravity. Would make more difference than widening the moat 4 feet.

---

The report I heard this am stated that there was evidence that someone had gone over the fence - possibly enticing the tiger to make the jump.

If that was the case, it is too bad that the tiger had to die for it.

Quote
JoeH
An extra 2+ feet on the diagonal distance, but almost 4 feet extra vertical. Takes quite a bit more energy to lift that 300 lbs of tiger the extra height against gravity. Would make more difference than widening the moat 4 feet.

True, I'm just trying to point out that's one heck of a leap to begin with.

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A full grown 550 pound Tiger can easily leap 30 feet from a stand-still.


""Captive tigers aren't nearly in the kind of shape that wild tigers have to be in to survive," he said."

That's the kind of stupid theories that get 12 and a half foot walls built.

"Captive tigers aren't normally in the kind of shape that wild tigers have to be in to survive," might be a bit more correct. At east wiser. Cheats built on fantasies.

Those kind of cheats are what brings us so much cheap junk that falls apart when it shouldn't.

Too bad they had to kill the tiger. Should have awarded her a medal.

Quote
Comandanta_Blankenship
Too bad they had to kill the tiger. Should have awarded her a medal.

are you serious? a medal for what?

I am all for animal rights, but when it becomes a matter of human vs animal, guess what, I protect those from my own species. Unless I am a tiger typing here on this powerbook, that means the human lives and the cat dies. Period.

Quote
space-time

Quote
Comandanta_Blankenship
Too bad they had to kill the tiger. Should have awarded her a medal.

are you serious? a medal for what?

I am all for animal rights, but when it becomes a matter of human vs animal, guess what, I protect those from my own species. Unless I am a tiger typing here on this powerbook, that means the human lives and the cat dies. Period.

Well, it was just 400 something of those kinds of Tigers total and millions of boys left.

Just kidding, I'd rather no one or creature suffer. But a person is no better than anything else. Another organism.

On the human vs. tiger thing, some people need to lose their jobs over this. It should have NEVER come down to "kill tiger or let it kill more people."

If they can't safely keep the animals, they shouldn't have them. Let them be wild so they can do what they know best.

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Quote
space-time

Quote
Comandanta_Blankenship
Too bad they had to kill the tiger. Should have awarded her a medal.

are you serious? a medal for what?

I am all for animal rights, but when it becomes a matter of human vs animal, guess what, I protect those from my own species. Unless I am a tiger typing here on this powerbook, that means the human lives and the cat dies. Period.

At this point, given that the Siberian tigers are nearly extinct, I believe it's reasonable to place a greater value on the life of the tiger than that of certain humans.

Of course that proposition can generally only be demonstrated after the fact: e.g., the life of a poacher vs. the life of the mountain gorilla he just killed. And in this case, if the tiger was taunted by any of the human victims, the human had it coming. That is based on speculation

---

[picasaweb.google.com] [www.flickr.com]

Well, I'm all for animal rights to a degree as well, and I generally wouldn't choose most animals over most humans (notice I said MOST, not all).

However, if people DID go in and aggitate the animal, thereby causing the attack, I do NOT believe the animal should have been killed. I mean, after all, we know we are dealing with wild animals (which, in all reality, shouldn't be in captivity anyway). If people start crap, they need to deal with the consequences. I have seen many folks taunting zoo animals - makes me sick!

Quote
ssledoux
However, if people DID go in and aggitate the animal, thereby causing the attack, I do NOT believe the animal should have been killed. I mean, after all, we know we are dealing with wild animals (which, in all reality, shouldn't be in captivity anyway). If people start crap, they need to deal with the consequences. I have seen many folks taunting zoo animals - makes me sick!

Yeah, but at the point the tiger was killed, she was well away from where it all started and the people who would have likely been next were also likely not involved in the original situation.

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> But a person is no better than anything else. Another organism.

If it's a life or death choice between a hydra and me, I sincerely hope that you'd pick me.

Quote
MacMagus
> But a person is no better than anything else. Another organism.

If it's a life or death choice between a hydra and me, I sincerely hope that you'd pick me.

LOL!!!

"Everyone look at that huge Bengal Tiger! Bengal Tigers weigh 500 pounds and can jump over 20 feet!"

– Dave the trusty Jungle Cruise tour guide



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2007 09:18PM by enrico7300.

It's apparent that the three '@#$%& were hanging around AFTER CLOSING TIME looking for
trouble.

Well they found it.

I would like to ask thes two remaining nitwits what part of WILD did they not understand???

Let's wait for facts, at least a few . . .

How sad that this beautiful creature, who didn't ask to be where she was in the first place,
should have been killed because a couple of sick guys were trying for some ''kicks''.
I have no pity for them.... none..

Quote
M A V I C
Let them be wild so they can do what they know best.

I think in this case, the Tiger did just that.

Moral relativism, when entering the realm of anthropomorphism, shows just how little HUMAN life is valued these days. Even stupid humans, Darwin's candidates for Gods sake, have a value greater than that of a wild animal. If this happened on the plains of Africa we'd all shrug our shoulders and say " what a maroon" & "bad break."

But blaming the humans makes the mentally handicapped FEEL good. And that's all that really maters these days...

The score to date: Humans 1, Tiger 1. It's a draw!!!

Do you really think Darwin candidates are a great value to the world? I don't blame the humans, but I'm not going to feel sorry when their own stupidity is what caused their demise.

As for the devaluing of human life, you can thank Roe v. Wade and 30+ years of legalized abortion for that.

There's plenty of blame to go around. And none of it falls on the tiger. There appears to be some evidence that there was provocation. Why the zoo didn't keep a better eye on visitors (for the safety of the animals) is kind of questionable. At the SD Zoo, there are cameras everywhere - visitors are generally unaware of just how many. And plenty of Zoo cops (all armed) to make short work of unruly visitors - or animals. Try tossing something into an enclosure. You'll be nailed in less than 60 seconds. Apparently, the security in SF was not up to the task, and it cost them an animal.

It is really not that unusual for animals to get out of their enclosures. Here in SD, the extreme example of that was an orang named "Ken Allen" who constantly - as in daily - escaped from his enclosure. Besides a barred cage, nothing could hold him. The zoo spent tens of thousands of dollars to have some rock climbers go through the enclosure and map out every toe hold and crevice. Then the engineers came in and did their best to remove the escape routes. This went on for several months. Ken never hurt anyone when he escaped, and general just hung around his enclosure, aping the spectators. He even taught the other orangs how to do it. For awhile when bfd was still in school, it was daily news. Sometimes Ken would wander around looking at other animals, but a crowd always followed him, so he never really went berzerk. As time went on, the escapes were finally foiled, but it took them about a year to stop completely.

Far more intelligent than his keepers (who went 'under cover' and posed as visitors - Ken would spot them immediately), the orang was a town legend. Everyone knew who Ken Allen was. Might not've known who the mayor was, but everyone knew about Ken Allen. For several years before he developed cancer and was euthanized, he learned to make paintings that the zoo auctioned off for hundreds of dollars.

Quote
bfd
For several years before he developed cancer and was euthanized

Tron is right, we do treat animals better than humans . . .

At this point, given that the Siberian tigers are nearly extinct, I believe it's reasonable to place a greater value on the life of the tiger than that of certain humans.

Still, no.

Some people make take joy in the apparent karma, but more people, truly innocent, could have possibly been hurt.

Yes, it may indeed be too bad the tiger had to be killed, but this is it's second attack.

There is a lot still unknown, regardless where your sympathies lie. Based on what passes for logic here, maybe choosing a hydra over *some* members wouldn't be such a bad idea, MM excluded of course.


Apparently, the security in SF was not up to the task, and it cost them an animal.

True enough.

---

I am that Masked Man.

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There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

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Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

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You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

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An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Quote
RAMd®d
At this point, given that the Siberian tigers are nearly extinct, I believe it's reasonable to place a greater value on the life of the tiger than that of certain humans.
Still, no.

OK, healthy Siberian Tiger, happy and minding its own business, vs. the sniper kid who was sentenced today.

Tiger vs. the guy who shot the politician and blew himself ans 20 others up in Pakistan yesterday.

Happy healthy tiger vs. human in vegetative state, or with terminal cancer and 1 week to live, etc. . . .

I never understood the need for a two-bit zoo in every city. There should be less than ten zoos in this country, and they should all be up to the quality of The San Diego Zoo. The L.A. Zoo is a total disgrace. The last time I was there there were kids all over throwing coins at the animals, sometimes right in front of their parents. You can't tell me these animals have more "value" than any of the captive animals.

More details:
[www.msnbc.msn.com]
But this is getting to be like following the Drew Peterson story.
Suddenly someone thought to mention that a shoe and blood were found inside the enclosure. Now there is a description of what happened when the victim died, but nobody felt like offering anything about what led up to it.
Best part of the story-- releasing victim's names is against policy, so just offer the condition of anonymity if you want the info.

Quote
h'
More details:
[www.msnbc.msn.com]
But this is getting to be like following the Drew Peterson story.
Suddenly someone thought to mention that a shoe and blood were found inside the enclosure. Now there is a description of what happened when the victim died, but nobody felt like offering anything about what led up to it.
Best part of the story-- releasing victim's names is against policy, so just offer the condition of anonymity if you want the info.

No shoe was found inside, but a shoeprint was found on the railing

Regardless if the Tiger was taunted or not the Tiger should have not been able to get out..

There was a news blurb yesterday about the two remaining brothers have police records. Public drunkenness and some sort of confrontation (battery?). I haven't this since.

it is a tragedy all around. The greatest mistake is that we have so many zoos as mentioned so eloquently above...and no need for them. It seems I'm reading quite a few stories of animals being mistreated / neglected at zoos all over the world. I think they are a 19th-century novelty spurred on by films like Tarzan and King Kong which we are all of course raised on.

Why this major-city zoo did not have at very least security cams watching the most dangerous of their animals...cost these kids their lives (and believe me, if the stories of their provoking the tiger are true, they are not gonna get much sympathy from anyone) is going to cost that zoo very dearly. They ought to just close it down as a penalty. You lose a life due to an animal attack or you lose an animal due to lack of care and lack of quality standards, you lose your license. Period. Bu'bye.

> The greatest mistake is that we have so many zoos as
> mentioned so eloquently above...and no need for them.

WTF are you talking about?

Have you ever been to a zoo? They're hugely valuable for educational, cultural and recreational purposes and as a means to preserve species that have been devastated by human-encroachment.


> I think they are a 19th-century novelty spurred on by films like Tarzan...

You're wrong.


> Why this major-city zoo did not have at very least security cams...

That was an oversight. Certainly there was some negligence on the part of zoo officials and inspectors.


> They ought to just close it down as a penalty.

That would be a terrible tragedy. Do you think the animals would just go on their merry ways without the zoo to protect them? You'd be killing most of those animals, burdening other zoos and preserves and punishing the community.


> Bu'bye.

Are you really that ignorant or are you trolling? Seriously.

Boys will be boys and tigers will be tigers. In this case, the superior life form won. The
families should just accept their Darwin award and shut up. But they won't.

Quote
mnafe

Quote
h'
More details:
[www.msnbc.msn.com]
But this is getting to be like following the Drew Peterson story.
Suddenly someone thought to mention that a shoe and blood were found inside the enclosure. Now there is a description of what happened when the victim died, but nobody felt like offering anything about what led up to it.
Best part of the story-- releasing victim's names is against policy, so just offer the condition of anonymity if you want the info.

No shoe was found inside, but a shoeprint was found on the railing

Yes, I've heard about the shoeprint in 15 other stories. My point is that this is the first and possibly last mention of a bloody shoe inside the enclosure.

---

I suffer from the same sensitivity that you do. A few nuggets of wisdom were shared with me and I'm "trying" to incorporate them into my life. First, remember that nobody can hurt your feelings unless you let them. You can always reject what is being forced on you emotionally.
Second, nothing changes unless you change it. If you don't want the behavior to be repeated then you need to take action. Otherwise the kid has learned that his behavior is the way to get things done, because everyone lets him get away with it.
In the meantime I sympathize because I've been there.
-beerman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2007 11:23PM by h'.

From the 911 transcripts: 911, what's your emergency? A what? Slow
down, I'm trying to write this down, A tiger is what? On the loops? Oh, on
the loose. That's not good. Do you need a veterinarian? Where are you? The
zoo? Oh, very funny, and I suppose you'll be wondering if we have Prince
Albert in a can, right? I'm hanging up now"...


[www.breitbart.com]


Did anyone read that the two punks abused the hospital staff who were stitching up their
wounds and have been in violent fights with cops in the past. Glad one of them has a
court date for that on Jan 15, i hope he gets jail time - and the zookeeper, I mean, jailer,
beans him with pine cones while he's behind bars.

Here's another article concerning the two "citizens".

[www.freerepublic.com]

We live a 1/2 mile from a middle school. While walking pass our front porch on their way home, some of these children would agitate our 12 lbs mutt into barking. We haven't caught them red hand yet but I keep getting reports from our next door neighbors. One time I caught two little punks threw rolled up newspaper at our dog and I gave them a stern lecture in front of their peers. One sincerely apologized; his accomplish gave me the "F" you attitude.

---

SoCal for now.