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Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: Rain
Date: December 29, 2007 09:48PM
So in 200 words or less, whats the skinny on running Windows on a Mac?
Whats required?
Is there a wrong way and a right way to set it up?
Does it run faster than the old Virtual PC we all toyed with in years past?
Is it worth your time/trouble to have 1 machine that runs both platforms?



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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: December 29, 2007 09:52PM
I run Parallels on my MacPro at work so i can use Outlook and whatever other PC app rears its ugly head. Also use it to connect to the remote server in MN. Works like a champ. Super fast.

I use a PC at home to test websites. Cannot wait until I can get an Intel machine so i can just run Windows off that.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2007 09:53PM by bazookaman.
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: December 29, 2007 09:56PM
If you are comparing it to Virtual PC; it is blazing fast. VPC was a dog.

If you go the Bootcamp route; you are basically running a Windows PC.

If you go the virtualization route; You are running Windows at the same time you are running OS X. If the Windows apps are 2D; you are purring right along. I would stick with XP because I think Vista just adds too much overhead for the return.

I do a 120 page monthly pub that was started on a PC and the publisher wants to keep it on a PC. I use Quark 7 to put the magazine together. From start to finish it takes about a week and a half. If it wasn't usable; I wouldn't be doing it.

MAVIC and a few others say Fusion is faster than Parallels for running Windows in virtualization. I have been using Parallels and it has worked pretty darn well. I like the Coherence mode in which the Windows desktop combines with the OS X desktop.



I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: December 29, 2007 10:05PM
What they said.

If you really want to use SoftPC, I have an old copy of it that ran on my Mac Plus ! It even comes with DOS !

I used to snicker at the startup sound- it reminded me of a Model T engine trying to start up..
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: macnut
Date: December 29, 2007 10:07PM
What I"m hearing from friends is Parallels for XP, Fusion for Vista.
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: December 29, 2007 10:50PM
My wife has a MacBook running 10.4.11 and Windows XP (SP2). I got her Fusion, but have still not gone through the rigamarole of being able to run XP from within the Mac side. Right now she either boots into Mac, or into Windows. (If someone has first hand experience with this, how do I get XP to run under Fusion, short of buying a second license for XP?)

That said, Windows works great (or at least as great as Windows can) on her MacBook. She routinely uses it at a number of office locations (she works for Coldwell Banker here in Central Arkansas) with no issues -- after all, when you boot into Windows XP on the MacBook, you're running Windows XP; there's no virtualization, it's "you are there".

Can't compare it to VirtualPC, because it isn't emulation. It blows the doors off of it. (I used to run VirtualPC on a PowerBook ages ago, in order to run Lotus Notes at a client's. It was painfully, painfully slow. I mean, I got the work done, so it was great in that regard, but it made me hate Windows even more.)

Got to say, running XP on the MacBook has reintroduced my wife (and me) to the horrors of Windows. Doing the simplest things are just so profoundly un-intuitive. I guess if you're working with it every day, I'm just not seeing how to get things done but, man, I really hate when she needs to get something done.

Oh, and don't get me started how every friggin' template they have set up for their agents is in MS Publisher -- and how they can't understand how we don't love it. I whipped up our own version in BeLight's Swift Publisher and knocked the socks off the Publisher version. (I'm working on a much better version in InDesign, but that's another story.)

Sorry, Rain, not trying to change the thread. Suffice to say, a modern, Intel-based Mac, Boot Camp, and Windows XP are a pretty good combination if you need to run both systems. I can't comment on the usefulness of Fusion because, as noted, I can't get XP to launch in it because XP keeps insisting I'm installing a single-user license on a second machine.



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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: ADent
Date: December 29, 2007 11:18PM
I have VMWare Fusion on my Mac mini with 10.5 Leopard.

When you are running XP you need the RAM for that OS in addition to OS X. So if you are skimping along at 512MB or 1GB you will run a bit slower. I got 4GB of RAM shipped for under $80 - so Fusion flys on my machine.

I was testing out some OCR stuff, and the scanner actually works somewhat faster under under VMWare than it does on my Mac sad smiley .

A Core 2 Duo or Core Duo is great - one CPU for Mac, one CPU for Windoze (The OS dynamically allocates things, but that is how I picture it in my head).

It seems at least as fast as my Celeron 2.4GHz box. There is a minute delay when using the Coherence or Fusion mode (at least with older apps), but Windoze in its own Window works absolutely great. There is full screen mode too.

Have not tried to boot into BootCamp.
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: Fred_Also
Date: December 29, 2007 11:25PM
Quote
Zoidberg
(If someone has first hand experience with this, how do I get XP to run under Fusion, short of buying a second license for XP?)

If you mount the Fusion Installer disk, along with the installer it has a "read me" with the instructions on how to use the Boot Camp XP install with Fusion. Really pretty simple.

Good Luck,

Fred Also
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: slbett
Date: December 29, 2007 11:47PM
Original MacBook with 2GB ram and 160 GB drive. I have Leopard with XP Pro installed in Parallels and a minimal Boot Camp Partition with Vista Ultimate. Went with Parallels-XP first because my son in Marines needed an up to date Explorer to access his military pay sites while on leave. Another son bought Vista at college to get familiar with it in case he needed to use it at school. He put it on MacBook to use at home because he has a G4 iBook at college. With the college discount it wasn't to expensive. $90 I think. Plus the other half uses Windows at work and uses a couple of Windows only apps for some volunteer work. Both Options are great and have their own advantages and disadvantages. Still, we use very very little. All six kids and us still use the Mac side for our internet, music, photos, videos, etc. and Office 2004 even though Office 2007 is on the Vista install.

P.S. I love to see the look on people's faces when they brag their Windows computer is so much better because it can run so much more software and I made a big mistake getting a Mac. I just turn the screen around and show them either OS and watch their jaw drop. Remember you still need all the security programs for the Windows side on the Mac. Good Luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2007 11:50PM by slbett.
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: December 30, 2007 12:48AM
I've been running a TON of tests Boot Camp, Parallels and Fusion the past several days. So far it's just been with XP.

Fusion does run a lot smoother than Parallels. Boot Camp, naturally, runs as well as Windows can run.

My advice would be to try boot camp, and if restarting is a pain, get Fusion.




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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: Rain
Date: December 30, 2007 12:51AM
So I need to buy either Parallels, boot camp or Fusion.
Then I need to buy a copy of XP.

Right?



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Thanks for everyone's help and support after Hurricane Katrina!
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You have not given any specs on your system
Posted by: slbett
Date: December 30, 2007 02:50AM
Leopard 10.5 comes with Boot Camp. So it would be free with new machine or $129 or less depending where you by Leopard. It needs an Intel Mac. The beta version for Tiger has expired. You must by the others. Yes you need to buy a copy of any Windows version you want to install. Must be Service Pack 2 for XP. Some XP licenses can be transfered to new computer but since this is going on a Mac, you can't tell Microsoft that. Just safer to get a new copy thanks to Microsoft's WGA system that locks it to one computer. With Boot Camp, you must choose to boot into one or the other OS at startup. With the others, you can run at the same time as OS X. More ram the better though. You will see a 10-20 percent decrease in speed with that option (still very usable and nowhere near as bad as with VirtualPC) and no speed loss with Boot Camp. Just my experience.
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: modelamac
Date: December 30, 2007 08:43AM
I'm running Fusion on an Intel iMac. Works great. Wife likes it. She needed M$ Office, but wasn't installed in XP. Have it on Leopard on iMac, so she used it there. That's great, as it is a first step in getting her converted to Mac.

You do need a legitimate XP SP2 disc, but can run VM Fusion trial for 30 days. It is not crippled, IIRC, but the full version.

You CAN tell M$ exactly what you are doing. I did, and got the blessing. XP gets installed and is usable on the Boot Camp-created partition. When you install VM Fusion (trial or purchased), XP on Boot Camp sees Fusion as a new installation, and may complain. I got the complaint, called M$ support, told them what I was doing, and got the blessing. They (India, usual 1/2 hour call) gave me a new XP serial number for my needs, assigned to my legitimate copy of XP. I didn't know it would work, so I tried it. All went well.



Ed (modelamac)

I think I will just put an OUT OF ORDER
sticker on my head and call it a day.
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Re: Zoidberg (and others) whats the deal with Windows on a Mac these days?
Posted by: Rain
Date: February 11, 2008 10:46PM
Is it just cheaper to pick up a used 1.6ghz PC notebook with XP preloaded on it from eBay?
(WISH I had more time to set this up on my iMac, but I just don't)



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Thanks for everyone's help and support after Hurricane Katrina!
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