This is going to be long, but I really would like your input, views.... on this.

Where I work is a union shop, so there is a grievance process. Also, I do not deal with stress well. I have fibromyosis and stress literally causes the muscles in my neck to spasm so bad that I cannot function because of the pain. Recent events at work have me at that point right now. File that away for later.
------------------------------------------------------------

At work, I developed a philosophy a long time ago, to fly under the radar. I work hard, do good work, and have built up a lot of good will with my superiors based on the hard work/good work. Basically, I want to go to work, do my job, and then leave, avoiding the usual "peyton place" personality conflicts and dramas my company is good at.

I avoid controversy. If it involves me, I swallow my pride. If my boss is wrong or being a dick, I could fight him, either as a personal confrontation or through the union process. But either way, in my company, that is an automatic black mark that travels with you forever--right or wrong. Don't get me wrong, if my job was at stake, or there was wrong doing, I wouldn't stand for it, but in 23 years, my philosophy has served me well to a great extent, until now.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, on the Saturday before Xmas, my boss, (who has many good qualities, but he has a rotten mean, petty, temper, can't be wrong, ever streak) was in one of his moods.

Let me put it this way, he is like a bull with a red flag waving in front of him and if you are the unfortunate sap that happens to be the recipient of his wrath, woe be to you.

Anyway, he asked me to make something up in five minutes that usually would take me anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to make up. He knew this had to be done days ahead, but only gave my a few minutes to do it and it wasn't to his liking. And what I made was perfectly fine for the time I had to make it. (The man who received it even told me so).

In front of my employees and customers, he dressed me down, demeaned me, made me, a 42 year old man feel like an idiot. I don't do confrontation and plus at that point, his face was so red and he was so irrational, it wasn't worth it to me. I stood there and took it.

To give you an idea how bad he was, for the first time in 23 years, I considered clocking out and just going home.

Unfortunately, as I said, he did this in front of my employees. One of them, a good worker, a 25 year old female, told him to knock it off, mind his temper and manners and that his behavior was unacceptable. She was actually calm, but firm.

Of course, this sent him even more into a rage.

I am really embarrassed that a 25 year old, 120lb female had the "balls" to stand up for me. I should have done something, but that isn't me....

So because she stood up for me, (and I feel responsible because I should have had the courage to do so), all hell has broken loose.....

After he walked away, I was so shaken, I told me crew I wasn't sure what I was going to do (go home, walk it off), but I needed to take a walk.

While I was away, the manager came back to have another go at my girl who had stood up for me. My other girls told me his face was still red, he still was belligerent.

My other girls told me that he was extremely intimidating, he wanted my girl to go into the office with him and she told him, no, not until he calmed down.

So then he sent her home.

So I come back and find out this has all happened.... My manager then comes back and in an instance, he is all calm and rational and tries to explain to me, or should I say justify why he was right and she was wrong. I just shook my head yes and didn't say anything hoping this would just go away.

When my helper filed a grievance on Wednesday, to recoup her lost time, my manager, who has to always be right, then wrote her up for "insubordination" and wants to fire her.

And since then, he has been my "best buddy". And yesterday, he just blurts out that he expects that I will write something in support of him--that he was calm, cool, collected and that my girl was in the wrong. He really didn't give me much room to get a word in edge wise. And you've gotten the point that I don't like confrontation and let's face it, I'm a wimp.
-------------------------------

Let me make this clear, this is where I draw the line. Not only does he have anger management issues, he obviously is manipulative and mistakes my passivity for being a total lackey.

Obviously, he thinks he has me so intimidated, that I would lie for him. Can you imagine the outburst or the retribution when I tell him not only will I not write such a letter, I am honor bound to write a rather damning account of his behavior on the day in question.

Jesus, I swear this is making me sick.

Besides telling me to grow a pair (which I already know), any words of wisdom, advice, tactics?

Thanks,

Bryan

---

Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Studio 2022
MacBook Pro 14 inch 2021
iPhone 14 Pro
Location: Cincinnati

So, what would the future hold for you if you left this place?
(need to know to complete the picture, thats not a suggestion to leave . . .)

Umm, write the letter.
In support of your helper that spoke up.
…and have the other witnesses do the same.

If questioned, I would repeat the line you typed here.

"he…mistakes my passivity for being a total lackey."

Damn it, grow a pair.

---

Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

You already know you are going to tell the truth. My best advice is to write your letter assuming a lawyer will be reading it to a jury--so factual and non-emotional. Don't use the terminology that you used above to describe your boss ("petty," etc.), but rather describe the event.

It is time to draw on those years of good will. Hopefully your boss' boss will recognize the petty nature of your boss and smooth things over, but I'd expect your direct boss to be seriously pissed for some time--at least until he finds a new target.

Best of luck.

Video Camera.

Let him bring it up again, tell him as calmly as possible that you will not support him.

Let him blow up.

Go home, make a copy of the tape, submit it to someone higher up.

If that doesn't go over well, Youtube.

Yes, I know that may not be the 'right' way to handle it, but I'm pretty sure that he'd be fired really quick one way or the other.

I, for the most part, am a "fly under the radar" type of person myself, but not quite to that extreme. But there are instances that can't and shouldn't be ignored, like this one. You not only owe it to yourself, but to your employee to write the letter and point out that your boss was completely in the wrong, and has a habit of doing this.

By flying under the radar you have become use to avoiding conflict and that is why you see the increased anxiety, emotional and physical stress that you are feeling now. Your body is not used to dealing with confrontation. You should never allow yourself to be treating like an "idiot" or "dressed down" by anyone, you have to learn how to stand up for yourself, in a calm and controlled manner. The more you deal with problems like this, the better your body will learn to deal with the physical and emotional effects of confrontation.

Good Luck!

MIchael is right. Factual, without editorializing is the only thing you can do.

Easy for us to say when its not our work environment. But, your only real course of action is the non-emotional facts of the situation.

I agree completely with the advice given by Big Daddy Cool and Michael. Remember that you will have to live with yourself, and that's the most important consideration of all. Be dispassionate as you relate the incident in the statement. Stick to a detailed description without editorial comment.

I faced something similar a number of years ago, and though it took a while, the boss was fired. People like you describe can only get by with this so long, and it does eventually catch up with them. It's usually not fast enough to save some of us from a lot of grief, but taking the high road and knowing you did the right thing can get you through a lot. That and this forum, of course.

I kind of like TGN's idea, too, but that might be for future use and not a valuable suggestion right now.

Second on writing the letter stating the facts as they happened. Your boss is up a creek without a paddle when HR looks into this. There are laws that cover this. In addition, your company may have policies about his actions. If HR gives you any grief, mention that your boss' behavior is creating a hostile work environment. Any HR person that has any skills will sit up at this. If they don't take action, they've unzipped.

This reminds me of my first professional job. I was so thankful for it, I did whatever I was asked, flew under the radar, helped my coworkers not looks so bad, never pointed the finger, always came in early, always stayed late, always did the job the best I could, always followed orders...

(doh! just got a call and I have to leave so I'll have to follow-up later)

Long story short, I got fired. When I found out why I was fired, I found out what being a team player and being passive got me. The main reason I was fired was because the guy who gave me the job specs was a druggy and kept messing up and I had to redo work. I never pointed the finger at him.

I've never been the same.

So now I don't stand for anything like that. In that short period, I learned what trying to fly under the radar was really like. I know you think it makes things easier, but does it? You've got a lot more experience than me, and more to lose.

Sorry I have to cut this short, so I'll leave you with this: anything you lose for standing up and doing what is right, is something you did not want to begin with.

---

Help MacInTouch: Buy from Amazon? use this link [amazon.com]
Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
Mac Benchmarks: [barefeats.com]
Used Mac Stuff [FS/T]: LowEndMac Swap List
Mac Software Updates: [macupdate.com]
Fonts: [dafont.com] [fontspace.com]
Online Computer Store With Mac Support: [macsales.com]

It is one thing to CYA, we have all had to do it at one point or another. In this case you do have, IMHO, a responsibility to your employee who seems to be bearing the brunt of this whole episode.

If you can't do the right thing for yourself, do the right thing by her. After 23 years, it will be very hard for your boss to claim that you are being insubordinate and as I learned at a previous job, there needs to be quite a paper trail and a history of "insubordination" to support that if someone is fired because of it.

DM

If you have to deal with him face to face again over this issue, there is a technique that is helpful for us non-confrontational types: the broken record.

Give your reply simply and briefly, with a neutral intonation. If he argues with you or attacks you, repeat exactly the same words with exactly the same neutral intonation.

For however long he rails at you, whenever he stops, repeat exactly the same words with exactly the same neutral intonation.

It has the effect of worming its way into the attention of someone who is trying to shut out every viewpoint but his own. It communicates that you will not fight him or disrespect him, but you will not budge from your version of the truth. Period.

Do not, do not get sucked into defending yourself or attacking him. Describe the situation, calmly and simply. Over and over, if need be.

When confrontation comes to find you, there's no advantage in hiding from it, but also you do not have to confront it back. You can reply simply and calmly and truthfully and respectfully and stick to that.

Good luck to you.

I had a somewhat similar situation about 18 years ago. I always tried to maintain a friendship with my boss, which allowed me to be elevated in the business to his right-hand man. I felt that by not rocking the boat it was best for me and gave me some advantages. However, as I became more prominent in the business, others who had grievances against the boss came to me and wanted me to do something or say something to him, because I was the one with the most influence. However, I just ended up being a buffer and felt lots of stress. Finally, he went beyond the line and I found the courage to stand up to him. I refer to that time as "hell week". It was difficult and extremely unpleasant in a lot of ways. On the other hand, looking back from years later, I wish I would have stood up to him years before. By finally taking a stand for what I knew was right, I changed and became a man. The most important lesson I learned was don't let another person hold your life in his hands. They will never look out for you, but only use you to look out for themselves. Hope that helps.

You have to do the right thing.

Get over the fact that a woman stood up for you. When she did; that was a person standing up for another person. Plenty of us have been in that situation. In the heat of the moment; a lot of us have taken this type of verbal abuse.

I had a publisher of a newspaper verbally abuse me in a meeting only to apologize to me privately minutes later. I did not accept his apology.

Everyone in that room knew your boss was acting inappropriately. He uses fear and intimidation.

One person spoke out. The moment she did; she had made a decision that she would not put up with any more of his behavior.

There has to be a point where you have to stand by your principles. If you hold truth, honesty, and fairness as principles then you have to abide by them.

Write the letter as honestly as you can.

You will get zero respect from your boss if you do anything less than that.

There are some things that are worth standing up for and this is one of them.

I left a $50,000/yr job at a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer in April 2007 over this kind of fear and intimidation. I sought help from everyone. The one person who supported me left the company unexpectedly. I had no help from the union as I was a company employee.

---

I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

Speaking as someone who recently got out of a long-standing despicable work situation, I can say -- there is no justification for putting up with that sort of behavior. My advice to you is to quietly start looking for a new job. Document everything in writing. But start looking... there are enough decent bosses out there, that the crappy ones don't deserve your (misplaced) loyalty. Having had nonsupportive bosses pretty much my entire life, I am only now realizing what it's like to have someone above you who actually supports what you are doing.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

I also understand how your body is dealing with the stress. Before I quit my blood pressure was 175/101. Chest pains. Sleepless nights. Weight loss. Depression.

When I started there my BP was 125/89.

Everyone needs to earn a living; but it shouldn't end up killing you.

---

I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

I was working in an open union shop when a supervisor did something like that. When he lost it and started screaming at me in front of the people I was supervising, I told him I would not talk to him unless he could control himself and turned my back on him. Being a former Marine drill instructor, his head darn near exploded, but after a few seconds he realized where he was and walked out. He was fired several months later for reasons that were related to his outbursts (cough*failed-drug-test-after-one-stint-in-rehab*cough).

I agree with many of the other posters, especially with what AlphaDog wrote.

---

In tha 360. MRF User Map

I work for a large company with operations in many States. Some sites are union and some aren't - I work in a State where we aren't unionized. But the rules for handling situations like this are the same at all sites - take the issue to your HR Rep. They will do an investigation and come up with a solution that doesn't hang you out to dry. It is their job to keep companies from being sued by disgruntled employees who have been put into situations they can't deal with themselves.

Thanks everyone.

I especially like the advice on just repeating the facts calmly over and over until it sinks in.

Mean people suck : )

As to writing the letter, what language should I use?

Here is how the "event" seemed to me:

- his face was beet red
- he was demeaning
-he was verbally intimidating
-he was angry
-his outburst was not proportional to situation
-he was not calm
-he was visibly angry
-he was abusive
-he was aggressive
-he wasn't open to discussion in any type of a rational sense
-my employee did nothing more than tell him to mind his manners and she was actually calm
-and considering how angry he was, his physical demeanor, no person at that point would enter a room alone with him.

That is how I see it, but is that the correct way to say it?

As I see it, the only power I have is in the way I describe this even to my superiors. I need to paint an accurate picture, but also a devastating picture of words to end this quickly and end it in a way to protects me and my employee.

Thanks,

---

Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Studio 2022
MacBook Pro 14 inch 2021
iPhone 14 Pro
Location: Cincinnati

He was visibly agitated instead of his face was beet red?

The rest of your descriptives sound fine.

---

I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

It sounds like you handled the situation appropriately. Your boss was being unprofessional, you chose not to react.

It sounds like your subordinate acted appropriately. The right thing to do -- IMO -- would be to tell your boss that she is a valuable part of your team and that you did not see anything that rose to the level of insubordination.

I echo those who advise you to talk to the other people who were present. I think you might also want to talk to human resources and/or your union rep before giving your boss the letter.

Your list looks good, but I would pare it down. When you write the letter, I would not be too descriptive; don't talk about his "beet red face", rather I would say that he was "visibly agitated" or something similar, and emphasize that he was abusive and that he made demeaning remarks (quote these). Make it clear that you did not think he was prepared, at that time, to discuss things rationally.

As others have said; In the letter, just stick to the facts of the incident. Straight reporting, like you witnessed a crime. Don't editorialize, don't embellish, don't draw any conclusions (except to note your subordinate's professionalism, and your superiors lack of the same).

Good luck.

BTW -- I think you mean fibromyalgia? You'd need to grow something more than a pair to suffer from fibromyosis.

Can you think of descriptors of his behavior? The things you mention are fine, but many of them also carry a certain amount of judgment. If you can describe how close he was to you, whether his hands were clenched into fists, examples of the things he said, and other very concrete things he said or did, you'll remove some of the emotion and replace it with fact. To say his face appeared very red and flushed would be a good way to describe physical signs of his anger as well as including any words he used to demean or intimidate you or the young woman. I would certainly also support the young woman's decision to not be alone in a room with the man while he was angry.

>
>
my employee did nothing more than tell him to mind his manners and she was actually calm
>

Minor point but "mind your manners" could be also be interpreted as being disrespectful
(not that he deserved any at this point)

Perhaps - My employee asked him or requested that etc ....

The situation sucks, but you know if you do the right thing it will sort itself out.

Be factual and let the HR wonks do what they are paid to do.

I honestly would have to look this guy in the eye and ask him if he really wants to have a liar
working for him in a supervisory position. Not sure what his answer could be.

---

Without asking other employees to bring themselves into the controversy by backing you up there is a chance of coming down to your word against his.

Try taking 100mg of inositol for your muscle spasms. Magic stuff.

Quote
Milton
And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...

You have received some good advice. Whatever you decide consider what Peter B said and start looking for a better job.

Here is a resource to help manage the spasms. [www.amazon.com]

dmann said what I was going to - you owe it to your employee to stand behind her.

Sorry to add more stress to the situation, but ...

An interesting question is whether or not to tell the manager what is going to happen. The manager might feel as if you are stabbing him in the back if caught unaware. On the one hand, he might use the information to withdraw from the confrontation. On the other hand, he might use it to manipulate the politics even further.

If you decide to tell him, x-url put it well

Quote

It sounds like your subordinate acted appropriately. The right thing to do -- IMO -- would be to tell your boss that she is a valuable part of your team and that you did not see anything that rose to the level of insubordination.

---

--------------

Embarassing myself on the Internet since 1978.

Perhaps getting a friend or relative to help compose and/or type the letter with you would help reduce the immediate stress of preparing the letter. Good luck.

---

Following the Light of the Sun, we left the Old World ...

I'm also a fan of staying under the radar where possible, but this isn't one of those instances, unfortunately. All great advice above so I won't say much other than sorry to hear this, it sounds real tough, but yeah, do the right thing. And one day, perhaps your boss will realize that you actually did him a FAVOR by writing this letter. He sounds like the kind of guy who is a few seconds away from a massive coronary event.

Either way, you're doing the right thing and keeping your self-respect as well as your employees' respect. Stay unemotional and factual, it should serve you well. Good luck and let us know how it shakes out.

Situations like this is exactly why you have a Union to go to bat for you. Take it as far up the union ladder as needed. Documentation is the key. Your sneaky boss is likely trying to cover his tracks with a one-sided account of the situation. He is a sick man. There may be nothing that you can do to help him. Try not to be angry. I worked in a Union environment as a manager. It challenged and honed my managerial skills. Employees were treated more fairly and I was held to behavior that a good manager should have. Productivity went up. I got better along with everyone else.

Although you got a lot of excellent advice, I noticed that one aspect of situation was not touched upon by others, going over your immediate bosses head and having a conversation with his boss. Or if possible, going even higher.
Sort of giving them a heads up, "protecting company's interests" .
In reality making sure that your version of the story gets there as well.


HR talk is a must.
Looking for another job, while still employed, is another wise, backup move. You dont have to take one if you do find one, but its availability will make a big difference the way you will be handling this..
Good luck...

one idea -

present yourself as trying to minimize damage. your boss is obviously concerned with preserving his own power, as petty as it may be in the end. you're not trying to "go after" your boss or get revenge, just maintain a productive workplace.

---

Look at this as an opportunity for pay back.
Nail the sucker.
No embelishing, just the facts.

Best that happens, you get a new decent boss.
Worst that happens, you end up somewhere else doing something else.
You're apparently part way there already.

I spoke to a close friend has had experience in you kind of situation. Here are her thoughts on the matter:

"Yes, it does sound to me much like the environment I used to work in.
Here are some thoughts that might be helpful:
As a middle manager, he is definitely in the middle. It's crucial that he have the support of his own staff, which he appears to have up to now. If he does not stand up for the girl who is in trouble, he will be unable to do his own job right once that becomes known.
If I were doing it, I would not only write a letter of support for his girl, sending a copy to his boss's boss, but also get the other members of his staff to do the same. It's important to remember that any real decision makers in this case were absent when the event took place. They have no way of knowing who is right or wrong or what it is that actually transpired. If it becomes a case of his word against his boss's word, his boss will likely win.
Someone else suggested that he simply right down the facts as he remembers them, being careful not to make any insulting comments. I couldn't agree more. Let the facts speak for themselves. Remember that he will likely still have to work for this guy even after the conflict is resolved.
Also, I would avoid any physical confrontation with the boss. For one, it would probably make him sick. For another, it sounds like this boss's tactic is to deny the whole incident. Talking to him one to one is not going to change that. The boss needs to be confronted in such a way that getting out of it without changing the way he operates it not an option, otherwise there will be just the unavoidable increase in tension without any positive change"

I was in the same situation last month...I could write a book. I would get to work and start feeling physically ill. Take a vacation, and use the time to get a new job. It doesn't have to be better, it doesn't even have to be as well paying...what is your health and sanity worth to you?