Well this is an interesting situation. And I can think of no better place to ask than here.

My 11yr old asked for money this year for Christmas, as he's been saving up for a Nintendo DS. Of course, now that he had enough for it, they were nowhere to be found. Trust me, after 30+ phone calls to stores in the Northern IL area, they are just impossible to find locally So, I watched "[www.nowinstock.net]; and got lucky.Yesterday at 645AM before work I snagged a red & black one off Amazon.

Amazon showed them available to order as a preorder, with an availability date of 1/10. Not in stock for immediate shipping, but good enough for me! It'd give him a tangible date he could look forward to and I could stop looking everywhere for one!

So, I ordered it and a game at $164.98 with $10.97 2 day shipping specified, so he'd have it while I am at MacWorld. Amazon's order confirmation said it was due to arrive 1/15.

Surprisingly enough, it shipped yesterday! Same day service, can't ask for more than that. Color me stunned!

However, here's the big question. Amazon shipped it from Tulsa, OK, via UPS Ground service, due to arrive at my house in 2 days from time of shipping. While it's going to arrive at my house in 2 days like I paid for (Supposedly tomorrow, tracking info has not changed from Tulsa yesterday, so it's not here in IL yet that I can verify), I ordered it via 2 day service, which, by my line of thinking, is UPS Blue or Air. Not Ground.

Now here's the real issue I have with this. Here at OWC, let's hypothetically say you order a hard drive from us. It's on backorder, our site shows "7 day delay", so you expect it to ship in 7 calendar days to you. You need it as soon as it comes in, so you order it via 2 day UPS Air so you'll have it in 9 days.

But let's say we get it in the very next day, 6 days early, way ahead of the 7 day backorder out site showed when you placed your order. We ship it out the same day we get it 99% of the time, so it goes out via UPS 2 Day Air service, just like you ordered and paid for, and you get it WAY early. You're totally delighted with the service, and got exactly what you paid for. Both hard drive and shipping method/service.

Bottom line. I paid for 2 day delivery, a premium, yet Amazon chose to ship my package by the cheapest means possible to them, still delivering the items ahead of the time I was promised, but not providing me the service I paid for.

Am I just overanalyzing this? Or is Amazon showing items as not available for immediate delivery, when they actually are, and pocketing the extra profit on using the most economical shipping method possible, yet still charging for the premium service?

I am most certainly not unhappy with the level of service with this order - don't take this post as any kind of rant about that It's more of an ethical question - should they have done what they have?

Let me rephrase that. If OWC did this to you on an order, would you be asking for your money back on shipping that you never received? Or posting about it here?

Thanks - I value your input on this

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Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing

Quote
OWC Jamie
If OWC did this to you on an order, would you be asking for your money back on shipping that you never received?

Yes, I would.

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This message has been brought to you by the Threadkiller™

Yes, Amazon shorted you.

No, I wouldn't ordinarily bitch about it unless the ground-delivery company was different from the 2-day delivery company and the ground company had a well earned reputation for destroying packages, missed deliveries or whatever.

Often, the choice is between UPS ground and FedEx 2-day with just a couple of bucks difference in price. In such a case, I'll frequently opt for FedEx because UPS ground has trashed a few of my packages and my UPS delivery guy is an ass.

I'd call 'em up and give 'em hell if I paid for FedEx 2-day and got UPS ground.

But since you didn't choose a shipping company that's clearly a different situation.

Edit: ...and either way, the situation would justify reevaluating whether Amazon was worthy of my future business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2008 11:25PM by MacMagus.

Smacks of inflated eBay shipping charges, too.

$6 to mail a CD, and when you get the package there's a little over $1 on postage on the label.

You paid for two day service.
You are getting two day service.

It is their choice how they were going to accomplished the two day delivery.

They could use a midget on donkey. as a delivery carrier and as long they got it to you in two days, that all that counts....

I want a midget on a donkey to deliver my goods!

can OWC add that as an option? i'm willing to pay extra...

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2008 11:47PM by incognegro.

No where in Amazon's order process does it say how they are going to get it to you in 2 days, just that they will. So if it arrives in 2 days, you got 2 day delivery.

If it arrives in more than 2 days, I'm sure Amazon will refund all or part of the delivery fee with one e-mail.

OWC, OTOH, specifically gives me a choice of which carrier and speed I want something shipped. Hence, I will often avoid DHL when ordering from OWC, so I'd be pissed if I paid for FedEx or UPS and got DHL. But with Amazon, I don't get a choice, my 2 day Amazon Prime packages show up via UPS, FedEx, DHL, sometimes Ground, sometimes USPS, but they do show up in 2 days (well, about 99% of the time).

The question is-- will you get it in two days?

If so, then I think you don't have a gripe. The higher price will cover using a "guaranteed" service should the need arise.

IF you get it in two days, amazon made an additional profit.

IF you had chosen a service such as Priority, First Class (USPS, naturally) or FedEx Air, etc, that would be a different story.

You paid for the assurance that Amazon would get it to you in two days. IF that happens, they as they say-- you get what you pay for.

Now if it's one day late, Amazon needs to show you a little love.

---

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And hope is a lousy defense.

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I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

I think you're waaaaaay over analyzing this.

you're getting the freaking thing EARLY!

EARLY!

be happy!

Two days by air or by ground is still two days. With many mail order places, packages that go ground can sit around for a while before being sent. they got your package into the courier's hands right away.

you could ask for the money back but don't be surprised if they refuse. don't kick up a big fuss.

EARLY!

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Another vote for "Midget on a Donkey" delivery service.

But it needs to have precise tracking info. I want my video camera ready when that midget gets here...

Oh, I forgot... could it be a singing midget, who knows only Esperanto?

And if he/she could dress only in vibrant colors & be wearing a fez, that'd be great.

Guess I'm doing to disagree with what everyone has posted thus far...

I ordered it via 2 day service, which, by my line of thinking, is UPS Blue or Air. Not Ground.

Did Amazon say that it was going to be anything but UPS ground? You know how regions work, so they may have just looked at that and saw ground will get it to you in two days. Keep in mind their account system is very savvy and is catered to your zip code.

Additionally, they have very specific agreements with each carrier. They may very well have an agreement with UPS that ground is guaranteed for 2nd day in your area.

So unless they advertised something other than what you got, I think it's your assumption that's getting the better of you.

---

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yeah, here in N calif if i send something via USP ground to just about anywhere in N calif from sacramento -- SF, san jose, redding, Reno, etc -- it gets there overnight, even though its ground

fedex overnight is $26, UPS is $8

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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.

Quote
incognegro
I want a midget on a donkey to deliver my goods!

can OWC add that as an option? i'm willing to pay extra...

are you saying you want a midget on a donkey holding your package? Your weirder than me.....

Think of your package like a person you just bought a First Class airline ticket for. But instead of getting to fly First Class Air, he gets put on a Greyhound Bus, fed Champagne, and shown pretty pictures of clouds. He gets tipsy on the bubbly, so he sort of doesn't notice, but he's still on a flippin' BUS, not in the First Class section of a Deluxe Jumbo Jet, that you paid for.

The Bus arrives at the station at its appointed time, in fact, it arrives early. Your guest got luxurious treatment, as bus rides go, so he's not only comfortable, he's in a spectacularly pleasant mood when he arrives.

But the question remains: where did the money for that First Class airplane ticket go?

Yeah, I'd question it, too.

(I apologize for the screwy logic. Blame max. He started it, with his "Midget on a Donkey" thing)

Quote
guitarist

But the question remains: where did the money for that First Class airplane ticket go?

Ah, but was there a First Class Ticket promised? By the sound of it there wasn't. What was promised was a time scale for delivery. Only if that promise is broken should there then be a reason to ask why they chose a particular way to deliver.

Someone brought high eBay shipping charges into the discussion but again I feel this is something that people should have no concerns with. No matter where the item is bought if they promise a particular delivery time and state clearly how much it will cost and you then choose to buy then as long as those are kept to it doesn't matter how the company achieves it, even if it's by a midget on a donkey. Only if they state a particular method of delivery and they then use a lesser one can you complain. If they state that shipping is two days and costs $10 and it arrives in 2 days and you see it cost $2 then what does it matter? You chose to accept the conditions and they have fulfilled their side of the bargain. Did someone bend your arm? Did someone lie? No, they did exactly what they said they would do. There are much more serious things to worry about in the world.

Amazon should give you a shipping refund. Period. You paid for expedited shipping and did not get it.

There is no gray area here. Just fact. Why you chose expedited over standard is not the issue.

---

Ed (modelamac)

I think I will just put an OUT OF ORDER
sticker on my head and call it a day.

2 days is 2 days no matter how it gets there. If it doesn't show up in 2 days, I'd get the refund...

No matter what, it would slightly change my perception of Amazon for the bad, however.

If I bought a fragile item and shipped it air freight - (I often do, just so these fragile items do not get destroyed travelling Over The Road[they get damaged / not worth the risk]) I'd be very unhappy.) In fact the item would be refused.

Interesting, it's split almost even - half thinking like I am, that they chose the cheap method out and are not using a guaranteed delivery service- that's a risk I would not have taken I guess.

The package hit IL at 3:59AM today, so it may get here. UPS Ground is not guaranteed to deliver same day in IL to residential addresses; only businesses. So I guess we'll see.

Thanks to all for the input. And as for the donkey delivery, who knows - with the way we're going green around here...... ;)

---

Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing

I guess what some people do not get is that Amazon does not promise air or ground, just the time frame of delivery. Everything else are assumptions on part of the customer. On the other hand, if the shipping specifically said air and you got ground, then you would have a case.

They likely average the costs, as the merchandise is shipped from different locations to all over the country, and they keep shipping prices relatively constant, regardless of where you are (and thus, how much it actually costs them to ship). At least for Prime, but I would guess for the rest as well.

At any rate, with hundreds of purchases, I had issues with deliveries twice so far, they refunded shipping in one case and accepted merchandise back at full cost to them in the second.

3,000 miles and overnite would require a leerdonkey.

I agree dk,
I've had hundreds of deliveries from Amazon. Most are early, some are on time, and only once have I had a late delivery.
Another thing to keep in mind is that no company is infallible. I think it appropriate to mention that OWC has messed up previous orders of mine - for a lot more than the $10.97 you're trying to recoup.

I'm not trying to recoup shipping on this order. My question is one of ethics.

Here's an example;

Store offers 2 levels of shipping. Ground for $5, or 2 day guaranteed service for $10.

Customer chooses 2 day guaranteed service for $10. Store determines by zip code that the Ground service is guaranteed to deliver in 2 days and ships using the service - that the customer did not specify - but paid for.

That's the real issue, they are using logistics, and perhaps in this specific case, inflated delivery times, to add to their bottom line.

---

Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing

Jamie, I have also been in situations before where I paid more in order to have something delivered exactly when I needed it, only to find out that I could have had it in the same time frame for less money. It is somewhat natural to feel remorse in that case and, potentially, that you were slighted. However, this does not mean that Amazon was wrong in any way.

First: As I mentioned, the shipping charges are uniform in the continental US. The number of shipping depots is finite. Therefore, the actual cost of shipping is going to vary depending where the customer is relative to the pertinent depot. Obviously, with flat shipping rates, in some cases you are going to pay less than the actual rate, and in some cases more, depending on the availability of the item at your nearest depot. As long as the charge is clearly explained (it is) and not meant to reflect the actual shipping cost for that particular transaction, this works fine.

Second: The shipping page on Amazon also says specifically for 2-day shipping: "Items may ship using a variety of methods, both air and ground"

My worst experiences were with companies that claimed to have items in stock, I would order next-day shipping, and the item would show up 4 days later, because of "inventory difficulties," while I would still end up paying next-day air. I will not mention the names, out of respect, and because it was some time ago.

Quote
OWC Jamie
Interesting, it's split almost even - half thinking like I am, that they chose the cheap method out and are not using a guaranteed delivery service- that's a risk I would not have taken I guess.

Quote
OWC Jamie
IStore offers 2 levels of shipping. Ground for $5, or 2 day guaranteed service for $10.

Customer chooses 2 day guaranteed service for $10. Store determines by zip code that the Ground service is guaranteed to deliver in 2 days and ships using the service - that the customer did not specify - but paid for.

That's the real issue, they are using logistics, and perhaps in this specific case, inflated delivery times, to add to their bottom line.

Ok, so how do you know that the contract between UPS and Amazon does not offer guaranteed delivery for UPS in IL? Have you talked to either UPS or Amazon about their specific agreement? The reason I ask is because of a conversation I had with each a couple months ago. Their agreement between each other is specific to them. One shouldn't use experience with UPS outside of its agreement with Amazon to assume that two-day means air.

As dk62 noted, their site is specific on this issue:
[www.amazon.com]
Also, when you select One-Day or Two-Day Shipping, we may use air or ground shipping as necessary to get your items to you within the promised time frame.

---

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