A man on Cashin' In said it is a bunch of bunk. Only to givve strokes to the women and is a silly holiday (my interpretation of his words)

How do you guys feel. It isn't just for women. If I had a beau I'd do something nice for him on Valentines Day. I think a day for Hearts and FLowers is kinda' sweet and romantic.

To me it means candy in funny looking boxes marked down on the 15th

( BTW - this is a tip on a potential deal )

: -)'

---

Valentines Day is OK as long as you gals honor S&BJ Day.

[www.steakandbjday.com]

---

Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

I don't celebrate VD...

---

Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?

Just another hyped up "Hallmark Moment".


The candy and flowers part are nice. The Cards are fun, especially for kids.

I am sure DeBeers loves it...they can hock their wares.

Ridiculous holiday, seemingly invented by women to torture men, and greeting card companies, florists, and jewelry dealers to make money. It would be fine if it were a two-way street, but it rarely is.

[intellegentignorance.blogspot.com]
[nonpc.org]
[www.dallasnews.com]

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Mrs. Poochie and I are going to White Castle.

Quote
PeterB
It would be fine if it were a two-way street, but it rarely is.

Really? I beg to differ. Whenever this comes up in conversation with friends (or even coworkers), the women are always wondering what to do for their guys for Valentine's Day.

I know I've always shopped for gifts, etc. for my boyfriends over the years. I've never expected the "holiday" to be about getting a gift from a guy (and not giving something in return).

Personally - I can take it or leave it. It's kinda fun to have an excuse like this to do something nice for one's sweetheart, but I'm also of the belief that little acts to show that you care can be done at any time of the year and for no reason whatsoever.

I usually end up doing something romantic and expensive for Valentine's Day, but it never feels quite right.

When women do things for guys on Valentine's Day, it's often a self-esteem-boosting exercise rather than something honestly for the guy. That, in-turn, often makes it a make-or-break test of a relationship... one wrong word and the guy finds himself the awkward target of a crazy-person where just moments before was something resembling his SO.

When guys do things for women for Valentine's day, the sense of obligation often taints the gesture. Performing from a sense of obligation is a bad habit to get into. It's not fulfilling. This can be especially stressful for both parties -- especially in a nascent relationship where you're still trying to establish your roles.

I'd prefer that If people really want to demonstrate love for someone -- over and above the usual daily gestures -- they do it spontaneously. I suspect that there's a quiet majority behind me on this, but fighting the cartels and the public face of the holiday is tough.

Quote
MacMagus
When women do things for guys on Valentine's Day, it's often a self-esteem-boosting exercise rather than something honestly for the guy. That, in-turn, often makes it a make-or-break test of a relationship... one wrong word and the guy finds himself the awkward target of a crazy-person where just moments before was something resembling his SO.

(snip)

I'd prefer that If people really want to demonstrate love for someone -- over and above the usual daily gestures -- they do it spontaneously. I suspect that there's a quiet majority behind me on this, but fighting the cartels and the public face of the holiday is tough.

Wow, what kind of psychos are you guys dating anyway????? When women do things for a guy for Valentine's day it's a self-esteem-boosting exercise only?

And I'm with you on the latter part of your post - little acts done spontaneously mean a lot more than things done in the name of Valentine's Day. But then again, that's exactly the same as things done at Christmas too! It's a gift giving holiday.

Quote
Stephanie

Quote
PeterB
It would be fine if it were a two-way street, but it rarely is.

Really? I beg to differ. Whenever this comes up in conversation with friends (or even coworkers), the women are always wondering what to do for their guys for Valentine's Day.

I know I've always shopped for gifts, etc. for my boyfriends over the years. I've never expected the "holiday" to be about getting a gift from a guy (and not giving something in return).

Personally - I can take it or leave it. It's kinda fun to have an excuse like this to do something nice for one's sweetheart, but I'm also of the belief that little acts to show that you care can be done at any time of the year and for no reason whatsoever.

Sorry Steph, but I rather suspect that you are the non-typical female...

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Perhaps my female friends are non-typical females as well?

My feeling really is that for both genders, there are always bound to be the shallow types who place too much emphasis on stuff like Valentine's Day. Guys can be just as shallow.

seemingly invented by women to torture men

A lot of people like to perpetuate that shallow notion. That and the one about Valentine's day being invented by greeting card companies.

Me, I like it. Lots of fun, though I'm typically bad at planning for special days, holidays, and birthdays. It's probably not PC (Psychologically Correct, self-esteem issues and all) but it's still fun.


When women do things for a guy for Valentine's day it's a self-esteem-boosting exercise only?????

That was pretty funny. More likely women are trying to boost the self-esteem of the object of their affections.

[en.wikipedia.org]

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

What is this Valentine's Day that you speak of?

---

And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts

Boy, what a bunch of louses you guys are! I'm with Stephanie...I don't call it a one way street, I always did something special for "my guy". I didn't sit back and say "bring it on".

I thought there would be some romantics on the forum but guess I'm wrong. Looks like the gals are the only romantics here. Go back to your computers.

I hate Valentine's Day with a passion. Even did back in the grade school years. I don't why but I don't play and don't participate and my SO has come to accept that.

I love making those that I love feel special and adored. All my Valentines.

I think it's kind of fun. My wife usually makes a heart shaped cake for me and makes a nice card, I'll make her a card and give her something that she normally wouldn't buy for herself. You don't have to make it a "Hallmark Moment", you can be creative.

[japanese.about.com]

In Japan, it is only the women who give presents (mainly chocolates) to men.

Quote
samintx
I thought there would be some romantics on the forum but guess I'm wrong. Looks like the gals are the only romantics here. Go back to your computers.

I get the feeling that romance has gone the way of chivalry (NOTE: this is a generalization - I know a few people who would fall into the romantic and/or chivalrous categories but not many).

& for what it's worth, I share vision63's sentiment - "I love making those that I love feel special and adored. All my Valentines."

I love surprising my bf with things. I'm always going over to his house & saying, "guess what I found for you" or "I saw this and thought of you..."

Too bad he's not the same way I am. In his defense though, he does a lot for me in other ways.

Quote
RAMd®d
seemingly invented by women to torture men

A lot of people like to perpetuate that shallow notion. That and the one about Valentine's day being invented by greeting card companies.

It's not a "shallow notion" if that's the reality of the situation and what typically happens on that day-- then it's being pragmatic, not shallow. Let's all be honest with each other, shall we? Let's ask the males on this forum to HONESTLY answer the following questions:

1) Are you going to buy something for your significant other?

2) Are you going to feel pressured to do so?

3) If you don't buy something, are you going to feel guilty about it?

4) If you don't buy something, are you going to hear all about it from your significant other?

5) If Valentine's Day didn't exist, would you still be buying her something? (Do you buy her things on all other days?)

Quote
RAMd®d
When women do things for a guy for Valentine's day it's a self-esteem-boosting exercise only?????

That was pretty funny. More likely women are trying to boost the self-esteem of the object of their affections.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Huh? I don't see how Wikipedia has anything to do with it... besides which, self-esteem isn't really something that can be "boosted" by another person... usually for it to be meaningful and lasting, it has to come from within.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Quote
Stephanie

Quote
samintx
I thought there would be some romantics on the forum but guess I'm wrong. Looks like the gals are the only romantics here. Go back to your computers.

I get the feeling that romance has gone the way of chivalry (NOTE: this is a generalization - I know a few people who would fall into the romantic and/or chivalrous categories but not many).

& for what it's worth, I share vision63's sentiment - "I love making those that I love feel special and adored. All my Valentines."

I love surprising my bf with things. I'm always going over to his house & saying, "guess what I found for you" or "I saw this and thought of you..."

Too bad he's not the same way I am. In his defense though, he does a lot for me in other ways.

Steph, that's the sad part... that's sort of the point I'm making. If you are treating someone well, why is it necessary to buy stuff on this one particular day?

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Quote
samintx
A man on Cashin' In said it is a bunch of bunk ...

Agree 100%. Only purpose is to screw the consumer. Want to give some one a present? Do it any time.

I like it and my wife of 27 years likes it.

I'll get her a card and some roses from Costco and brag on what a deal I got and also give her something else--probably something for one her decorative collections of stuff. I used to give her jewelry for Valentine's Day, but now she makes jewelry (sitting beside me right now making a necklace), so it's gotta be high end jewelry--that's anniversary level stuff. She'll get me a card and either a tool or something for golf (last year it was personalized balls--very cool) and make a special dinner. Then we'll go out dancing.

We would each do those things at various times through the year without prompting, but Valentine's Day focuses us. All in all, a great day!

Quote
PeterB
1) Are you going to buy something for your significant other?

2) Are you going to feel pressured to do so?

3) If you don't buy something, are you going to feel guilty about it?

4) If you don't buy something, are you going to hear all about it from your significant other?

5) If Valentine's Day didn't exist, would you still be buying her something? (Do you buy her things on all other days?)

BTW - I liked RAM's post. Really - shallowness exists in both genders.

Now to answer your questions (even though I'm female)

1. Yes - I already did. Went on a business trip and found some exquisite chocolate truffles at a store while I was there. I knew he'd like them. I couldn't wait til Valentine's Day, so I gave them to him a couple weeks ago.

He'll be taking me out to dinner at a nice restaurant - probably on Saturday. In all fairness, it's HIS turn to do so. We take turns on the special occasion type things. I took him out twice for his birthday (last month & both times to very expensive restaurants), so I don't mind "sitting back" and letting him take me out this time.

2. Nope - no pressure at all. Saw the chocolates and thought, "oh, I know he'll like those!"

For what it's worth, I don't think he's that keen on Valentine's Day but he does make an effort - and this is something I NEVER asked him to do. If he hadn't made an effort, I would have shrugged it off anyway.

Some years we do "expensive" things for Valentine's Day - some years, we don't. One year I got him a card and enclosed a pair of fingernail clippers in it. The card was humorous but nice. The fingernail clippers were mostly a joke (although he really did need some).

Last year, I drove down to his house (an hour away) and he cooked dinner for me. Yes, I got him something in return but I won't say what.

3. If I hadn't bought the chocolates, I wouldn't feel guilty at all. If he weren't taking me out to dinner, he wouldn't feel guilty at all either. Some years we've done close to nothing for the "holiday". A lot of times it's been "what would you like for Valentine's Day (or Christmas, or birthday, etc)?" When we can't think of things to do for those occasions, we just don't. No big deal, no hurt feelings...

4. Nope - when bf does "hear all about" something from me, it's because he did something that was completely uncalled for/inconsiderate/disrespectful, etc. Gifts should be given and received in a gracious manner. Anyone who expects an expensive/extravagant gift for an occasion such as Valentine's Day, birthday, Christmas, etc. is setting themselves up for disappointment. Gifts should never be about how much money was spent - they should be given as a token of love, friendship, whatever. In return, the recipient should simply be thankful that someone thought enough of them to actually give them something.

5. If Valentine's Day didn't exist, would I still get something for HIM? What do you mean? Would I get something for him specifically on Feb 14th? Or are you saying "in general, would you give him gifts?"

Specifically on Feb 14 - who knows? If any other gift giving days (Christmas) didn't exist, I wouldn't know whether I'd get gifts for people on those specific days or not. Impossible to say. I give gifts all year round & most of the time, for no reason at all.

Would I give him gifts if there were no gift giving holidays in general? Yes. I do this as it is anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2008 03:33PM by Stephanie.

Quote
PeterB
Steph, that's the sad part... that's sort of the point I'm making. If you are treating someone well, why is it necessary to buy stuff on this one particular day?

The same thing goes for Christmas & birthdays too (and other gift giving days).

In some ways it's nice to have a day set aside for such things. If I really want to play the game of "men are" and generalize about all men...then I would say, "men are forgetful and need reminders like this."

But I'm not going to play that game. ;)

Besides, if Valentine's Day didn't exist, where on earth would we get those obnoxious little stuffed animals holding roses and wearing satin heart boxers?!?!?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2008 03:32PM by Stephanie.

Like most of the "holidays" which dot the calendar, I have no doubt it's evolved from some pagan festivity designed to insert a little color into what could otherwise be a drab and depressing season.
Not all of the commercialism associated with the event is self-serving corporate greed-- here's an example of a nice commercial contibution to society:
[cgi.ebay.com]
(NSFW)

BL - the origins of the "holiday" can be found in the link that RAM posted.

Nice find on ebay. I should order some of those to go with the obnoxious little heart infested stuffed animals

Quote
Stephanie
BL - the origins of the "holiday" can be found in the link that RAM posted.

Nice find on ebay. I should order some of those to go with the obnoxious little heart infested stuffed animals

Thanks.

Quote

Lupercalia, of which many write that it was anciently celebrated by shepherds, and has also some connection with the Arcadian Lycaea. At this time many of the noble youths and of the magistrates run up and down through the city naked, for sport and laughter striking those they meet with shaggy thongs. And many women of rank also purposely get in their way, and like children at school present their hands to be struck, believing that the pregnant will thus be helped in delivery, and the barren to pregnancy.[6]

I'll have to remember this one next time the "if you could time travel" question comes up.

One time, long ago (I was maybe 17), I forgot to get my mother a Mother's Day gift. She proceeded to remind me that it was ok because it was just a day created by Hallmark to get our money. That it was not testament to how a child felt for their mother. She said...

...but then.... hey... (big sigh)

I'm just the Mother.... I'll be fine.

Needless to say, I've never forgotten since. My aunts, sister, friends. Valentines.

I think of pretty much the same as Phil.

---

1 - yes
2 - yes
3 - yes
4 - no
5 - not on all other days, that would be expensive! 365 gifts, whoa! However, at random, when I feel it or if she's had a rough day, I'll get her something.

Actually, when we were dating, before four animals and a daughter, I tried doing something a bit creative and it didn't cost too much. For example, once I took these foil-covered solid chocolate hearts and made a big heart on the floor with them, then I continued with an arrow made with the same chocolates into the next room where I wrote out on the floor "I love you.". I had placed flowers and a card on the table.

The stress comes from trying to think of something out of the ordinary.

I clean the house and the litter boxes, then either make dinner or we go out, maybe flowers on the table too.

---

The Taoist Zhuangzi said, "Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone".
The sociologist, and historian, Adam Ferguson described the phenomenon of spontaneous order in society as the "result of human action, but not the execution of any human design".

It's not a "shallow notion"

Sure it is. Especially when it's "seemingly".


...if that's the reality of the situation and what typically happens on that day...

You failed to establish the "reality of the situation". Show me any evidence that this "holiday" was created by women, let alone "seemingly invented by women to torture men". The word seemingly is used in an attempt to give your agenda/perception merit beyond your "experience".

As far as your inquiry into intimate details of my personal life, here's a one time pass:

1) Yes. And some friends as well.

2) No. But it's actually a fun, social opportunity.

3) No. But I can feel disappointed that I didn't get to take part in the fun.

4) No. And in point of fact, over my many years, I *never* have. That says more about the women than it does about me. So I seemingly missed out on years of guilt and torture?!

5) Yes, and yes.


This says it all for me: "We would each do those things at various times through the year without prompting, but Valentine's Day focuses us. All in all, a great day!"


Ok, actually it doesn't say it all; I've got a little more.


Huh? I don't see how Wikipedia has anything to do with it...

There's nothing I can do about that.


...besides which, self-esteem isn't really something that can be "boosted" by another person...

That's absolute BS. Self[/b-esteem is a misnomer if one believes it's *solely* a matter of how one view's their self with no relationship to how they are viewed in society. External validation is only irrelevant to sociopaths.


...usually for it to be meaningful and lasting, it has to come from within.

I agree. But that's a separate issue. Further, we are not born with our entitlement of self-esteem. We are born with the fear of falling. We can develop one and overcome the other. But it's rare to do it with sheer "will power" alone.

I don't dispute the commercialization of a pagan (Do Pagans have more fun? Are most Pagans blond?) ritual for the filling of Corporate Coffers. But those who sling the word "greed" around are pretending they have none. C'mon, who do you think you're fooling?

Fighting The Man, raging against The Machine, opposing the Military-Industrial-Consumerism-Complex by resisting Valentine's Day is one way to go. Party on.


If you are treating someone well, why is it necessary to buy stuff on this one particular day?

IF you are doing so, why is it *necessary* to buy them "stuff"- ever? Shouldn't they be satisfied to be surrounded in the aura of thy benevolence?


The same thing goes for Christmas & birthdays too (and other gift giving days).

In some ways it's nice to have a day set aside for such things. If I really want to play the game of "men are" and generalize about all men...then I would say, "men are forgetful and need reminders like this."

But I'm not going to play that game.

Parry, thrust, touché. Well done.

IF (note the big [no, not THAT] if) I were to play that game, I would have to agree that most men (myself included) seem to forget those occasions. But we will know when the next Monster Truck Rally will be in town. We deal with the important issues.

Women (Generalization Alert!) seem much more aware of these special holidays and rituals. Is it to torture us? All those years of Mom giving me Birthday parties and such were not the acts of a nurturer and had no effect on my self-esteem, but were steps in the plot of a conniving species to guilt me into giving gifts to future members of that species?! Who knew!

And as for the S&BJ Day, I've um, heard that it's been widely observed over many years without anybody involved even knowing of its existence. I would have assumed that it came several times a year. From what I've heard.

So ignore Valentine's Day, celebrate The Day as suits your self-esteem, personality, proclivity, fancy, or vanilla.

I prefer to devote passion to love and fun rather than hate. Bring on the Pagan Traditionalists and let us run naked through the sheets.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

For single folks like me, this Thursday will be just another Thursday.
No more, no less.

---

Sometimes I wonder, "What would Hodor say in this situation?" - Jim Gaffigan

You know, RAMd®d, how when you play "tug-of-war" and one person lets go of the rope? That person wins.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

---

Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

Quote
RAMd®d
All those years of Mom giving me Birthday parties and such were not the acts of a nurturer and had no effect on my self-esteem, but were steps in the plot of a conniving species to guilt me into giving gifts to future members of that species?! Who knew!

(snip)

I prefer to devote passion to love and fun rather than hate. Bring on the Pagan Traditionalists and let us run naked through the sheets.

Yeah, you should know by now...moms only throw birthday parties so they can lord guilt over their children's heads for the rest of eternity. That's what we women do! If we do something nice, you'd better return the favor at least a thousand fold. ;)

Woohoo! Could we start a political party called the Pagan Traditionalists?

Running naked through the sheets - good one! heheh

That person wins.

Don't take so hard. I'm sure at your gerbils still love you.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Valentine's Day should only be what you and your SO want it to be. If you both like getting gussied up and going out then do that. If you think that's a ridiculous idea then don't. The important thing is to not let some company (Hallmark) influence what you want. Don't do something just because everyone else is doing it.

Now this is just my opinion, but I have found it to be true on multiple occasions-
Sometimes women want what other women have, if for no other reason than that. They perceive other women as having something of some value and they in turn want that. It can be something tangible like a ring or perhaps they want the emotion or experience of it. Either they think it will make them happy or more attractive or whatever, and if they don't get it they will be disappointed. This can happen with men too, it's a social thing.

I find the winter to be quite dreary after christmas and valentines is a nice event to look forward to. It is a bit of a lopsided holiday but that's ok, I wasn't looking for a gift anyway. I've already ordered flowers for my wife and for my two little girls plus a big singing balloon. I have reservations for the nicest restaurant in town which I plan to thoroughly enjoy, especially since I have a gift certificate. btw, the kids are staying overnight at an aunts house so it will be a very relaxing night with no demands from kids. I guess that's a long way of saying valentines is ok with me.

Since this thread has stalled I'll add what we are all thinking about (while keeping it as safe for work as possible).

Wow. It's a goofy little "holiday" as an excuse to buy something cool for somebody you care about. Big whoop. Torture? Pressure?

Me and mine end up with words like "fun" and "play" and "romantic". It's a goof, nothing more or less. Obviously, some people's milage is really varying. My sympathies.

I've got a good friend who just lost her SO of over a decade, completely out of the blue, less than a month ago. Just *bam* he was gone. He hadn't even hit fifty yet. She's still trying to find up from down. It was just another reminder to me that any day, even a dumb, made up holiday, is a fine time to remind my SO that she still makes my ticker flutter.