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Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: March 02, 2006 09:27AM
In my personal opinion, doomed from the start, vanilla Chevy Cavalier styling, too heavy, not enough power. I also didn't understand this move, you make a high performance car, and you give it what looks like a single exhaust, and daisy look wheels. Those may be small issues for non motorheads, but image is everything in this segment of the automotive world.

The news snippet.:
"It sure isn’t because demand for the Pontiac GTO exceeded expectations. Criticized for its vanilla styling, and priced higher than expected due to unforeseen currency shifts, the Pontiac GTO is dead after a three-year run. The GTO debuted for 2004, received styling and power updates for 2005, and will be produced through the 2006 model year. Officially, GM has no replacement for the GTO lined up, but we’d bet a new version with retro design cues will arrive on the same platform as the upcoming 2008 Camaro."
[www.autobytel.com]

BGnR
GTO tidbits.
The 2004 model still had 9 months of stock sitting on dealers lots when the 2005 model came out, at a cheaper price point, more power, hood scoops, better wheels, and real looking dual exhaust.

2004 models still left on dealers lots in 2005 were retrofitted with new hoods, wheels, rear valance, and a dual exhaust that looked like a dual exhaust. One pipe per side instead of both pipes on the left side. The price was severely cut to get them off the lot. They still didn't sell.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: OWC Larry
Date: March 02, 2006 09:36AM
They are still spending the bucks on TV to promote them too - with that google tie in about searching for others positive reviews about them.



OWC Larry
Other World Computing
[www.macsales.com]
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: OWC Jamie
Date: March 02, 2006 09:44AM
Not enough power? Give me a break - mine's got MORE than enough. One set of tires in one season = perfect balance between power and traction. :>)

I'm very lucky to have snapped up mine for $23K out the door 15 months ago.



Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: davester
Date: March 02, 2006 09:49AM
People care about how many exhaust pipes and which side their on? That is plain weird.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: March 02, 2006 10:04AM
As BGnR said...

"Those may be small issues for non motorheads, but image is everything in this segment of the automotive world."



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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: March 02, 2006 10:05AM
What killed it? Here's what killed it IMO:

( A ) Original (okay, okay; "original" is an arguable term):



( B ) Concept:



( C ) Showroom:



Okay, something "boardroom" happened between ( B ) and ( C ), and that killed it. Always does. Even our illustrious Leader (LEADER!) had something to say about the auto industry ( [headrush.typepad.com] ):

Quote

"Here's what you see at a lot of companies; you know how you see a show car and it's really cool, and then four years later you see the production car, and it sucks? And you go, What happened? They had it! They had it in the palm of their hands! They grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory!

"What happened was, the designers came up with this really great idea. Then they take it to the engineers, and the engineers go, 'Nah, we can't do that. That's impossible,' And so it gets a lot worse. Then they take it to the manufacturing people, and they go, 'We can't build that!' And it gets a lot worse."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2006 10:06AM by Zoidberg.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: March 02, 2006 10:14AM
It looks too much like every other Pontiac. G6, Grand Am, Grand Prix, Bonnie...all the same just different sizes.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: davester
Date: March 02, 2006 10:21AM
Don't forget the bookkeepers They say, "looks great, only you need to get rid of those hood scoops and the little gizmos on the side and go with the cheaper tire/wheel combo and use the grille from the chevette to cut costs and...



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: MacGurl
Date: March 02, 2006 10:25AM
That Leader quote is dead-on. The US auto industry has been killing themselves for years. People in the US have *wanted* to like US cars, but they keep disappointing us when it comes down to what they actually deliver.
There are a number of US built performance cars I do desire (I'm not into imports at all), but the overall offerings to Joe Everyday Consumer are pretty poor.

Kathy







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2006 10:40AM by MacGurl.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: wowzer
Date: March 02, 2006 10:38AM
bah...US automakers should make cars that are dependable and cost little to maintain. If they want loyalty, they ought to build a product that looks okay, runs all the time, and never breaks down.

Otherwise, they ought to close shop and let the cars in america be built by honda and toyota. ;(



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: March 02, 2006 10:59AM
I never liked the new Goat.

That pic of Zoid's makes the hair on my arms and the back of my neck stand up, my pupils dialate, and a visceral tingle runs up my spine and down my... Well, you get the idea. Of course, it also looked a little like the Le Mans, etc.

I like the new Ford GT, and the newest Mustang...

But American iron seldom makes my blood race anymore. And the whole Pontiac line seems to lack individuality.

I was never a Mopar guy, but seeing the Challenger concept makes me misty. I like that, too.

And yes, I have a preference for details like 2.75"-3" dual exhaust, and maybe, on some cars, dual duals. Kind of like the color of the displays on high end audio gear. The devil is often in the details.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: sscutchen
Date: March 02, 2006 11:08AM
The original '64 is still the best looking. I like the side-by-side headlights.







Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Don Kiyoti
Date: March 02, 2006 11:18AM
Funny that there's a GTO ad on the web page describing its death.

This article from the same site is interesting:

[www.autobytel.com]

It gives a good sense of how utterly GM has failed to captitalize on the "retro-mobile" trend. Chevrolet HHR? Hello GM, the PT Cruiser came out five years ago!





[picasaweb.google.com] [www.flickr.com]
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: March 02, 2006 11:23AM
Don Kiyoti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chevrolet HHR? Hello GM, the PT Cruiser came out
> five years ago!

Yes, but the head designer from Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge/Jeep/Eage at the time of the PT Cruiser and the Prowler left them for GM, that's when we started seeing the new swarms of GM cars (American Revolution campaign). [www.forbes.com]

GM couldn't do it on their own so they had to bring in those that were. Kind of like what Microsoft does, eh?
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: March 02, 2006 11:48AM
Hello, GM? I'll take a '57 Bel Air with modern appurtenances, please.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2006 11:49AM by Zoidberg.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: March 02, 2006 11:59AM
Zoid you're right. Now that babyboomers are approaching retirement, something like this would sell like hotcakes. Not a "new and improved" like the tbird, but almost a one off like the new Mustang. Something that reminds you of the good times you used to have, your teens and 20's, but in the safety, economy and performance of a new machine. With an iPod radio of course ;)
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Greg the dogsitter
Date: March 02, 2006 12:00PM
Dear American car companies:

Show me.

Show me something that competes with what I want.

Show me an American Civic Si.

Show me an American WRX STi.

Show me innovation. Show me reliability. Show me power.

Show me that you didn't spend all those years building legends, just to throw your legacies (and employees) away on cars that need "employee pricing" to sell.

(signed)

GtDS, on behalf of a very large demographic
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: March 02, 2006 12:08PM
Greg the dogsitter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me an American WRX STi.

Hip hip HORRAH!
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: March 02, 2006 12:15PM
Zoidberg, you posted the 2005/2006 GTO, the one where they at least tried to make it not look like a Cavalier. Hood scoops, more aggressive wheels, and the dual exhaust.

MacGurl, there are only the Mustang, and the HEMI cars (especially SRT8's) that are worth purchasing if you like American muscle.
Sad thing is, how many domestic vehicles are built in the USA?
The Chevy HHR folks had to farm out the hood, and the rear quarter panels to Japan because GM can't do deep drawn precision high strength steel panels.

GM has no rear drive platforms.
Huge loss, they threw away the police market, and the hiperf market.
If you wonder why the Daimler/Chrysler Charger is a four door, look no further than the police market, Daimler/Chrysler swept the California tests this year. You'll be seeing a lot of Chargers, and Magnums in the next few years.

BGnR
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: March 02, 2006 12:33PM
And hopefully the challenger...

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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: MacGurl
Date: March 02, 2006 12:56PM
BigGuynRusty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> MacGurl, there are only the Mustang, and the HEMI
> cars (especially SRT8's) that are worth purchasing
> if you like American muscle.

Oh yeah, the Hemi cars are exactly what I'm talking about - especially the much anticipated Challenger (hubba hubba). I also admit to an affinity for Corvettes and Vipers - I just can't help it.

Other than that - I feel no dying "need" for any new car. Mustangs just leave me cold (Chevy person here).

Kathy


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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: March 02, 2006 01:01PM
If you wonder why the Daimler/Chrysler Charger is a four door, look no further than the police market, Daimler/Chrysler swept the California tests this year.

You are a wealth of information, BG.

The local SO is getting 6 300Ms with Hemis for *street patrol* This explains why.

Color me green. I assumed they'd go to the Brass, but it's being said they'll get full radio and lighting accoutrements.

Normally, most SOs and PD go off the CHP bids, and they get a better deal.






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: March 02, 2006 02:35PM
I can't wait to see these things as police cars.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: MacGurl
Date: March 02, 2006 02:53PM
Unless they are in my/your review mirror!

Kathy winking smiley
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 02, 2006 02:58PM
GTDS, you forgot to add:

Bring back the Grand National, but with 2 turbos.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 02, 2006 04:00PM
Greg the dogsitter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me innovation. Show me reliability. Show me
> power.
>

I don't really care if it is all that innovative. I would be happy with a true high performace Ford Focus if they regularly lasted to 300 k miles. When Fords "big" 2.3 l motor only makes 11 more HP than the standard 1.8 l Civic with half as many cams, that is really sad. And forget comparing it to the Si.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: blusubaru
Date: March 02, 2006 04:19PM
Want to see a 300M as a Police Car? Rent "The Island" 300's and Magnums. Oh, and a Hummer.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: March 02, 2006 04:45PM
Dual Core Grand National!
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 02, 2006 04:51PM
yeah baby!

I have seen one, and GM built it. Test mule prototype from the Buick Special Projects division. I also saw a buick turbo 6 in a Corvette that they built.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2006 04:53PM by Racer X.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: March 02, 2006 05:40PM
Racer X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah baby!
>
> I have seen one, and GM built it. Test mule
> prototype from the Buick Special Projects
> division. I also saw a buick turbo 6 in a
> Corvette that they built.

Dude!
The Typhoon
The Syclone
The Trans Am

All with the magic GNX V6 Turbo.

RX, did you see last weeks MuscleCar segment on the Buick GSX? Nice Saturn Yellow, about 3 minutes long. Which is about two and a half minutes longer than they usually give the car.

BGnR
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: rexrzer
Date: March 02, 2006 07:39PM
"GM has no rear drive platforms." wrote BigGuynRusty. Not true...

Rusty, you forgot one segment of GM that DOES have rear-wheel drive performance cars:
Cadillac CTS and its big brother, the CTS-V; the XLR sports car ($100k!); and the STS and STS-V...all of which are rear-wheel drive performance cars.

I'm not a big fan of GM, been a MoPar guy since high school when I used to drag race with the Callaway Bros., San Diego Performance Associates, driving a '63 Plymouth 426-wedge factory race car, and a 64 Plymouth 426-Hemi factory race car. But Cadillac makes some very interesting high performance machines that got rave reviews even from AutoWeek, European Car, and Automobile Magazine.

Just settiing the record straight...no big thing.smiling smiley

________________



What's the difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make some sense.
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: BigGuynRusty
Date: March 02, 2006 08:03PM
rexrzer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "GM has no rear drive platforms." wrote
> BigGuynRusty. Not true...
>
> Rusty, you forgot one segment of GM that DOES have
> rear-wheel drive performance cars:
> Cadillac CTS and its big brother, the CTS-V; the
> XLR sports car ($100k!); and the STS and
> STS-V...all of which are rear-wheel drive
> performance cars.

I should have made that clearer.
GM has no rear-drive platforms low cost enough to be used in a vehicle under $50K.

Not my quote, it was from the new head of the new GM performance division.

BGnR
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: March 02, 2006 09:06PM
The current GTO liked like the Catera and the last generation Lumina from the front. Bland, bland, bland styling.



Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Studio 2022
MacBook Pro 14 inch 2021
iPhone 14 Pro
Location: Cincinnati
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: OWC Jamie
Date: March 02, 2006 11:48PM
Bland styling, sure. Stealthy high performance is better than a flashy police magnet. :>)

Check this out: mine, last spring, at home:
[jamie.macsales.com]

And, not mine, being properly launched:
[jamie.macsales.com]

Form your own opinion. :>)



Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing
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Re: Goodbye 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, we hardly knew ye!
Posted by: ADent
Date: March 03, 2006 12:32AM
The GTO is a nice ride. Too bland for most.

And it was what $7,000 above Mustang GT. Sure you can actually put humans in the back of the GTO, but $7K.

If they priced it at $25K (like a lot were sold it), sales would have doubled. Of course 2X almost 0 is still almost 0, but .....
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