Despite the Subject line's awkward wording, I do want to point out what I feel might be an inappropriate trend here on the forum.

Over the last little while, I've noticed quite a few of these "Happy Birthday" posts in "Tips and Deals" accompanied by pictures and suggestive comments by the guys. Does this make anyone else feel uncomfortable? Would this be tolerated in your workplace? Should this even be in "Tips and Deals" despite their "OT" ratings?

I have no problem with it...
Mainly because no one has EVER said that postings of MALE actors/models birthdays would be unwelcome.

As long as there is equal opportunity to post, I don't see any problem.

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Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

Personally I just ignore them. Is it hostile or inappropriate? Probably, but a lot of other posts are as well. This forum, like others tends to be over populated with males so the resulting locker room behavior isn't unexpected. I just try to keep an optimistic frame of mind that most of the males here don't look at women as just sex objects. Even those guys can have the occasional drool lapse.

I find them highly sexist and misogynistic, also the presentation of half naked anybody, male or female in a forum named "Tips and Deals" is not a good thing.
Problem is I cannot recommend that any of the companies I do research for come here for Mac information.

A good friend of mine is now calling this forum "Tits and Dicks", and seeing what was posted this morning, I can see why.

Look, you have an internet connection if your here, just go looking someplace else for your porn.

BGnR

I agree that we should make this a good place for people to find mac info. i'm sure others will agree too. however, i'm not sure that will prevent people from making such posts.

I question your use of the word "inappropriate". I have to admit, anyone who uses this word, incurs immediate distrust from me... the use of this word makes me wince (reeks of PC-ness).

"Inappropriate" can mean anything. Basically, to me, translated, it means: "I don't like this." If we all decide one day that it's "appropriate" to go running around nude everywhere, then that will become what's "appropriate". It's purely a societal judgment, and one that could easily turn on a dime.

Hostile, that's a different thing. Insensitive, again, a different thing. Sexist or misogynistic, again, another thing. The posts you are asking about might fit under any or all of these categories... I would (in general) encourage people to be considerate, and take into account how their posts might be received by other people, but that doesn't mean that I think they shouldn't necessarily be making the posts at all.

Also -- this ISN'T a workplace. It's a forum. Those topics you don't like, just don't click on! That includes: pics of half-clothed women (or men!), freebie posts, discussion of the Oscars, sports talk, sci-fi talk, etc.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 10:36AM by PeterB.

I personally ignore them, but posts such as the ones now being discussed are the only reason why I don't recommend this forum to Mac users who need help. It's not as rowdy as the "other" place could get sometimes, but some of the topics make it kind of hard to take this place seriously as a good support forum, which, of course, all of us regulars know that it is. I'd also just as soon not have to explain why I hang out at a place with a locker room mentality, because I'm not sure I know the answer myself.

I'm another one who just ignores them, along with anything else that just doesn't interest me.

jesse

I only read those posts for the articles

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My dad, a miltary man, says while guys may brag & joke about sex and women, most will not in the company of ladies

I distinguish between ladies and women just as there is a difference between men and gentlemen.

I think most men here are gentlemen and much of what goes on in this forum is just guys yacking with guys. So, I keep that in mind when here.


cassie

at least they aren't posts about scales!

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I ignore them for the most part, too. One time I posted Paul Newman's birthday with pictures, and that seemed to go over pretty well.

Since I ignore the birthday girl posts, I do not know whether the photos are too revealing or not. I do agree with Pam that these forums often tend to lean towards a locker room atmosphere.

I wouldn't send anyone to this forum for technical help anyhow. I would send them to a dedicated tech forum. This place is like a clique and I think a stranger would find it bewildering.

jardster, LOL ... yeah, I forgot to include in my laundry list, "endless discussion of USB scales" !

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

I tend to ignore them too. Although recently I have felt there have been a lot of them. Who in the heck is Moira Kelly, Grace Park and Eva Mendes? And some of the photos do border on inappropriate. But I don't have to look. Sometimes I look though to see if I know who these women are. Usually I don't.

But this forum is probably populated by at least 90% male. And although it is not pc to say "Boys will be boys".......

I can ignore these threads like I ignore other threads. No big deal.

Although I am grateful to spearmint for honoring some of the "older" beautiful women out there.

HAHA you guys ran away from DealChat because they segmented the forum based on topic. Now what is it that you would like to do with this forum... Um, could be... SEGMENT THE FORUM BASED ON TOPIC????

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Unpaid Social Liaison

here ya go , jardster:

I will say this. Larry has tried to make this place as open and free a possible because
that was the point of a new forum (redesign aside)

In the early days the only real guidelines were pretty loose and the directions giver
was that the T&D's section was PG-13 and if it was R rated it should go in the Rant Room

I honestly don't look at most of them (did peak at the Patricia Heaton one )
She could boss me around anytime


Some of the content does push it a bit to the PG13/R line

Maybe since the Rant Room sees little use outside of Furbs smoking lounge we could move them there

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Have I missed something? Are these photos revealing? Aren't most from magazines or celebritiy press photos? Did I miss the Playboy and Penthous shots?

I think they might be a bit juvenile, like hanging a magazine cut-out of Heather Thomas on the inside of your school locker, but please.

Now, if you posted the photo from earlier today,
[www.twodorks.com]
this section should be called TIPS and deals…

I wonder how much that weighs?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 11:09AM by Big Daddy Cool.

Some of the more revealing ones should be posted NSFW. I know a guy who got fired for viewing porn on his work computer. It all would depend on the company's definition of porn.

mick e Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HAHA you guys ran away from DealChat because they
> segmented the forum based on topic. Now what is it
> that you would like to do with this forum... Um,
> could be... SEGMENT THE FORUM BASED ON TOPIC????

This has been amusing me for a couple of weeks. So far we have the Too Many Freebies controversy, the Too Many Threads About Scales controversy, and now the Too Many Pinups controversy. I guess that wonderful "water-cooler" "community" stuff is only wonderful when it's being denied.

Gutenberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the more revealing ones should be posted NSFW. I know a guy who got fired for viewing porn
> on his work computer. It all would depend on the company's definition of porn.


I agree. If the picture is a typical publicity photo that you might see on the cover of a magazine at the grocery store checkout, I don't have a problem. But I think nude shots (even with naughty bits covered), shots in lingerie, nip slips and all of that kind of stuff are inappropriate. This is not www.celebrity-erotica.com.

Have some common sense and don't push it to the point of forcing a rule to be made.

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Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.

I generally ignore them, but I also find their regular appearance quite tiresome: the adolescent drooling that sometimes goes on here doesn't raise my my opnion of those involved.

Waa, waa, waa.

For my money, there are way too many "complainer" threads than anything. If there's a thread you don't like, ignore it. Especially when the subject line makes it clear that it's about something in which you have no interest at all.

Which brings me to my own pet peeve, which is, cryptic subject lines like: "Guess what?," "How about that," or "Is it just me...?"

Thank you.
And good night.

I ignore them. But since you ask, I'll say I'd rather they went away.

It's not simply a watercooler conversation. People are using birthdays of obscure actresses as an excuse to post racy photos. And it's every freaking day.

Quote

Which brings me to my own pet peeve, which is, cryptic subject lines like: "Guess what?," "How about that," or "Is it just me...?"

Seacrest; I have the exact same pet peeve.

Perhaps they belong in the "Friendly" Political Ranting and Pin-ups forum. At least that would break the monotony of seeing nothing but refurbvirgin posts.

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Mike Johnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> People
> are using birthdays of obscure actresses as an
> excuse to post racy photos.

Ya think?
Like [www.imdb.com]
I mean ONE INDIE MOVIE CREDIT does not a celebrity make.

> Although I am grateful to spearmint for honoring some of the
> "older" beautiful women out there.

I take umbrage at that. It's been ME posting the pics of the classic beauties (as well as others). I'm not quite sure what Minty's standards are, but pre-1990's stars have not been on that list.

...But back to the topic at hand... Of all the things to complain about... THIS is what you can come up with?

You KNOW what the content is going to be before you click. You KNOW if we were stupid enough to post nude pics that a mod would pull it or make us edit it out. You KNOW if the slightly risque images that are posted here aren't safe for work then you're working in the wrong monastery.

I have no objection to anyone posting pics of men. In fact, I've done so for a few men's birthdays here already.

I think people who consider this site a Mac tech site should take another look. It's a general purpose forum and was designed as such, regardless of the poor choice of names.

I wouldn't even consider DM a Mac tech site. While I try to offer decent tech support when someone is struggling, my posts seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

If you want to post in a forum entirely dealing with tech support, I suggest that you limit yourself to Apple's hardware support forum.

[Edit] Also, I like it when spearmint posts birthday messages for young and/or obscure actresses and models because I'm a relative oldster and it's nice to see who the new kids on the block are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 12:34PM by MacMagus.

I'll weigh in now. I typically ignore them, too. I have very little trouble ignoring things that I don't have an interest in. If you knew my extended family you would know why I have honed this skill to a fine art.

I don't get bothered by them except I would ask everyone to keep them PG-13. I think some of the ones today are boderline. Larry has said that this side of the forum should be safe for work and PG-13. If anyone wants to post a picture it should be within those guidelines, otherwise, feel free.

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Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

rgG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't get bothered by them except I would ask everyone to keep them PG-13. I think some of the
> ones today are boderline. Larry has said that this side of the forum should be safe for work and
> PG-13. If anyone wants to post a picture it should be within those guidelines, otherwise, feel free.

Well put.

The thing to remember is that if we are not smart about this, there will be hard rules promulgated about what is OK to post. And rules being hard lines, they will by definition be on the side of being more strict.

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Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.

As a result of this post I am quitting. I tried to post in good taste but apologize to anybody I offended. I need friends not enemies.

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Da Good Life

Tsk tsk.

'See what you've done now?

I avoid clicking on those links altogether after seeing the first couple. I figure I can see them by using google if I really wanted to.

As for the hostile environments, possibly but this is not a place of work and has not defined if these posts meet any kind of criteria.

Why is it more apparent now? Most likely because we are averaging 1.5 pages a day. The Dealmac forum used to do 7-8 pages a day. Now these kinds of posts instead of being peppered in are now part of the main course. We need to build up traffic and topics will be less concentrated and easier to scroll past.

Also the OT flagging is not available yet.

I scroll by them because I have no use for them. It's great to have a mighty mouse.

The subject lines gives plenty of notice as to what will be inside.

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Join team 38910 folding! [folding.stanford.edu] multi cpu-[calxalot.homeip.net]

pRON aHOLIC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need to build up traffic
> and topics will be less concentrated and easier to
> scroll past.
>
>

I've read through all of the posts so far (wow!) but felt that this had to be responded to. A couple of the posters above suggests that they're unwilling to point people to this site because of some of the threads which can lead to a bit of a vicious cycle.

Being Male on this forum, I don't mind them (of course) but as PURE educational value. I think something can be learned. If you mentioned in conversation that today was Grace Park's B-day, I would say "Who"???

Now I know she is Sharon from Battlestar Galactica and judging from that last Photo, now I will never forget. I learned something.

Some of the older actresses are cool too.

A few years ago, a friend had a website called Inconceivably where he would post Hi_Res pics of Models (known and unknown) and feature a Model of the Day. It got crazy hits, but more importantly it exposed it's audience to new models. Pretty much it pure eye candy. I just ran across a similar site a few days ago that deals with Models of color.

[www.tech-9.com]

Anyway, with proper warning, I think those posts have a place here and should be continued.

Look at it from the educational value.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 01:43PM by ArtP.

IronMac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pRON aHOLIC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We need to build up traffic
> > and topics will be less concentrated and
> easier to
> > scroll past.
> >
> >
>
> I've read through all of the posts so far (wow!)
> but felt that this had to be responded to. A
> couple of the posters above suggests that they're
> unwilling to point people to this site because of
> some of the threads which can lead to a bit of a
> vicious cycle.
>

That is a valid point and one that should be a concern for a growing forum

It is a gray area of personal taste and tolerance vs. what the rules allow.

Maybe a private message to the posters of the threads in question and asking them to hold off instead of a public discussion would be more constructive?

When I send people to this forum I remind them that not all topics are workplace safe. It gives that individual the choice to let his or her sensibilities be the judge. I am comfortable with doing this unless the thread titles were pretty outrageous and offensive.

---

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Join team 38910 folding! [folding.stanford.edu] multi cpu-[calxalot.homeip.net]

Like with the FREE posts, I don't want to stop the birthday posts. I DO open them and enjoy them. I've gone to IMDB on several to learn more! I've posted pics to the threads myself! I bought a USB scale!

I just want the pics posted to be in good enough taste that I wouldn't be embarrased if my 16 year old daughter saw me looking at them.

If I want the nekkid versions, I can do Google Images myself.

I'm anti-censorship, and pro neighborliness and self-control.

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Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.

Here's one for the ladies (believe it or not, that's me, The UnDoug, circa 1993):

Now, look here. UnDoug has taken this TOO FAR!
That's an OUTRAGE!

No, Seacrest, this: [people.haverford.edu] is taking it too far.

(P.S. UnDoug circa 1991!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2006 02:30PM by The UnDoug.

My eyes! My eyes!

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=DH
Donkey (Ye Olde Farte of ye Internette) Hotay is a Tilted Windmill® enterprise.

UnDoug sure knows how to put things in another perspective.

Seacrest, another birthday, please, post haste.

This is a pretty funny thread.

The subject line for risque-ish picture posts should include a warning.

Something like-- For Medical Students ONLY would suffice.

---

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

This isn't a place to send clients for tech info. Macfixit is the place to send clients for tech info.

This is just a big water cooler filled mostly with horney men...

I think there might be more women on this forum than you think.

I ignore those birthday posts. I was a bit shocked by the thong in the grocery store post - but I don't take it so far as to be personally offended. Most of us have never seen each other, nor are we "getting to know" the complete human behind the posting

It seems we have just as many of birthday posts as "free" or deal posts or even "scale" posts. It goes in cycles. Remember the "I am 3 minutes into watching posts"?

as long as there are no posts of Mohammed.

---

!#$@@$#!

If there are spelling issues, please pardon, Owen the cat is sitting on my keyboard.

The purpose of this forum as has been clearly stated by the owners is general discussion of all topics with the exception of some extremely controversial ones such as politics and religion, which have their own section next door.

It is rather unfortunate that the name of the forum is "Tips and Deals" because that is not an appropriate descriptor for what it is all about.

Larry has made it clear that all subject matter (with the specific exceptions mentioned previously) is allowed, as long as it would meet a general PG-13 rating. This should give us a pretty good guideline for what is acceptable.

I think that as long as everyone is considerate enough of their fellow users to post their messages with appropriate and descriptive subject lines, then we should all try to be tolerant of others, and just skip over the topics we do not care to see.

If posters are responsible and considerate enough to post descriptive subject lines, then all users should be tolerant enough to skip over subjects they do not wish to view, and be responsible for what they themselves choose to view. To each their own taste. It is not difficult.

Those who post topics can make it easier on everyone by using descriptive subject lines (which Spearmint has done quite responsibly, IMO) and could learn from Minty's example of how it should be done.

I may not personally agree with everyone's choice of topic or point of view, but I will do my best to defend their right to make their statement, whatever it may be.

Please don't try to force this forum to descend into the kind of dark and restrictive arena that the old one turned into, leading to fragmentation and an exodus of all the best, the smartest, and the funniest users.

There is absolutely no reason why the personal views of a tiny minority of users should dicatate the rights of the larger community to read, view, and post as they see fit. As long as appropriately descriptive subject lines are used, there should be no reason for those who do not share a particular taste or interest in a topic to object, because no one is forcing anyone to click on any topic.

Tolerance is the flip side of the freedom coin, and freedom cannot exist without tolerance of others. So let's demonstrate how this should work. This forum, as it exists, is a microcosm of the larger society as a whole.

Users, you should be responsible for what you choose to view yourself, and quit worrying about what others should be allowed to post. The users should be responsible and edit their own submissions, and if they don't, then the mods, and if needed the owners, are here to deal with it.

Most of us want the freedom to decide for ourselves what we want to read or view, or not read or view, and would prefer not to have that decision made for us by someone else. Personally, I am an adult, and responsible for my own reading and viewing choices, and don't know of anyone that I would care to pass that responsibility off to. I don't even know of anyone who is qualified to make those decisions, other than myself.

Posters, do your part, and try to be considerate of others who have viewpoints that may differ from yours, and use appropriately descriptive subject lines, so that those who do not care to share your topical interest can easily skip over your post if they choose to do so. Also, try not to hijack threads, or bomb a thread on a certain topic with inappropriate and unrelated text or images that have nothing to do with the topic described in the subject line. That is the responsible and considerate thing to do.

In a free society, standards typically dictate that individuals are free to do as they see fit, as long as their actions do not harm others. As long as appropriately descriptive subject lines are used (and adhered to), no one is forced to click on any topic they do not choose to view or read. So how is any harm done to anyone else by any subject matter that they are not forced against their will to view or read?

Personally, I would rather see a few prudes and bluenoses who try to dictate their personal views to others and apply their anal-retentive and overly judgmental "moral" values or lack of them to others take a hike and head for greener pastures, than see the vast majority of users who take personal responsibility for what they read and post leave in disgust.

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hwystar
___________________

teelblue">"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who loves his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair." ~H. L. Mencken Ibid.: "The Coolidge Buncombe", pp.411-2

I'm offended that people are offended by Minty's posts.

A hostile environment? Puleazzzeeee, leave that crap at work or on campus.

If the subject line of the post indicates that good looking women are pictured within, and good looking women offend you, then don't click on it.

If you can't comprehend what the subject means, then learn to read and don't blame others for your illiteracy.

If you are so easily offended, pull out your cable or DSL line, close your blinds, turn off your tv and radio and lock your doors. Oh, and burn all your books while you are at it.

I hear Mark Twain wrote some racy verses. You might want to storm your local library and demand those books be banned....

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Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz, 16 GB ram High Sierra
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 GHz, 4 GB ram, 200 GB hard drive/ Mac OS 10.9.1 and XP SP3
iPhone 7 iOS 11
Location: Cincinnati

You sound grumpy.

Are you grumpy?

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Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.

Big Daddy Cool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they might be a bit juvenile, like hanging
> a magazine cut-out of Heather Thomas on the inside
> of your school locker, but please.

Dude, you're really old! .

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