Okay, so how is the "salary requirements" game played?

Does aiming high indicate I'm worth it or I'm unrealistic?

Does aiming low mean I'm a bargain or just aren't good at my work?

Advice is appreciated.

GtDS

Oh god, I hate that "salary requirements" thing. I wish I could answer your questions because they are the same ones I always ask myself!

It's a trap. Never ever give them a salary. Not even a ballpark.

If it's too low, you've devalued yourself. If it's too high, you're out of the game.

can you just say it is "negotiable" to keep the options open or is that just too wishy washy?

MacMagus Wrote:
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> It's a trap. Never ever give them a salary. Not
> even a ballpark.
>
> If it's too low, you've devalued yourself. If it's
> too high, you're out of the game.

I imagine as much. But then, how to respond to, "Please send resume with salary requirements to <some guy>. Those received without salary requirements will not be considered."

Don't do it!!...even if they insist. The most you should reveal is "Negotiable depending on responsibilities and benefit package" or "competitive".

Greg the dogsitter Wrote:
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> I imagine as much. But then, how to respond to,
> "Please send resume with salary requirements to
> <some guy>. Those received without salary
> requirements will not be considered."

That's a tough one. You are trapped in the personnel "screening people out" loop when you apply for a job this way. It's a no win way of getting a job. Better to have contacted the decision maker before getting shuffled off to HR as you have been.

I'm not sure what to advise...perhaps try a very broad range (with the bottom being your expected pay rate, followed by "dependent on responsibilities and benefit package".

I've been in this situation a number of times: After an initial interview with the head of the department, they send me on a follow-up to the HR person or some lower-functionary who then tries to nail me on the salary issue. This is often the way that I work it:


HR: Now, before we proceed, I need you to give me your salary requirements.

Me: I'd prefer to wait for your offer.

HR: We don't do it that way. I need you to tell me what you expect.

Me: I'm sorry, but I won't do that. How about you tell me what the range is for this job?

HR: I'm not supposed to tell you that.

Me: Well, if you give me some idea of what your range is, I can tell you whether it's within MY range.

HR: Okay, we're paying minimum wage for this incredibly technical job that requires arcane skills, mandates hours and hours of unpaid overtime and will inevitably cause you to incur numerous personal expenses for which you will not be reimbursed. And BTW, parking comes out of your paycheck.

Me: Well, thank you for your time.

> perhaps try a very broad range (with the bottom being your
> expected pay rate, followed by "dependent on
> responsibilities and benefit package".

Don't do it. If you name a "bottom" figure, you have committed to that figure.

Filtering by salary comes second. If your resume is any good, leaving out the salary shouldn't prejudice them against you.

IF it is asked for and NOT received, you WILL be filtered out. IF you can't follow initial instructions then they don't want you. At the minimum you might be able to get by with your salary HISTORY . . . maybe.

I would definitely list my minimum consideration and expectations of benefits for them to clarify and indicate that negotiation may be an option should the interest be mutual.

.03¢

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Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

MacMagus wins the thread; I'd say just about the same. I don't think I'd want to work for a company that filters like that anyway.

My answer would be …

1234567890

Pick five to six of them, put them in order after a dollar sign, and I'll get back to you.

Greg the dogsitter Wrote:

> Does aiming low mean I'm a bargain or just aren't
> good at my work?


I hope it's not a job that requires good grammar! ;)

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Aloha, Ken


“I have developed significant attachments to several members even though I wouldn't recognize them if I sat next to one on a park bench. I'm often tempted when in an airport to walk around, hollering "The Løpe", to see if anyone other than the Homeland Security people will acknowledge me. ” - The Løpe

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us." Justice Robert Jackson

How much do you want to make in the job? Pick that number. I'd say it should be higher than what you're making now, but not outrageous. In a job I held last year, I promised myself I wouldn't take an offer less than a certain amount, then I got that amount, almost exactly (although now I'm making less...but then again, it's not as hard a job). Good luck!

-Tofer

You need to figure out what your career field makes in your area. You can find it out somewhere on the internet I'm sure. Then let them know it's negotiable but you know that similar positions in your area are making between xxxx and xxxx. At least that was what I was told at my job finding seminar. I'm transitioning out of the military soon so they sent me to one. That is what the HR person that taught the class said to do.

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---“What you permit, you promote. What you allow, you encourage. What you condone, you own.”

I'm with MacMagus. Just say you'd rather discuss that in person.

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And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts

This smells like their attempt to try to find somebody who will do the job for less than what it's worth. The freakin' employer should always name what they think the job is worth and then go from there. They're the ones doing the paying and asking for the service....they should name the price they're willing to pay for that service.

Do what makes the most sense for you. If you don't want to answer it and they filter you out, consider it a gift that you don't have to work for such hard-asses

kiva



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2005 08:34PM by Kiva.

You are stuck and you WILL have to provide your requirements or you WILL be filtered.

What people are missing is that this is a tactic used to wittle down candidates because they have more applicants then they want to interview, they have a firm salary cap and their HR dept is overworked/understaffed and behind in filling other positions.

They don't want to waste their time on interviewing you if you require 45K and they are only prepared to pay 38K, even if you are way, way better than the rest of the crop.

It's not about finding the best, it's about filling the slot and moving on for HR.

Believe me, I was laid off twice within 2 years. First time for 8 months, second for 11 months. It took me over 245 mailed resumes to land my current position. I can't tell you how many of these types of jobs I applied for (probably a few hundred) and all the results were always the same.

It totally sux how some HR depts screen candidates today for certain jobs. It's like having to play "Guess what # I'm thinking" in order to even get an interview.

Best advice I can give is research the field everywhere you can. Try salary.com for salary averages and see if you can track down any info anywhere on what the company pays for similar jobs.

Then put a reasonable range in your cover letter and add the usual BS about "flexible, negotiable based on benes, job duties, etc.

Next, light a candle, say a novena, kill a chicken...and forget about the job. See if you can send out a dozen more resumes by the end of the week.

PS, my girlfriend is an HR Director with over 25 yrs in the field so I know a little bit about the process.

The more applications you send to different jobs, the better your chances to find some place that will appreciate your talent and give you a fair shot at a position.

Good luck.

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JoeM

JoeM, I appreciate your response; I'm sure you're accurately describing what's going on. However...

JoeM Wrote:
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> What people are missing is that this is a tactic
> used to wittle down candidates because they have
> more applicants then they want to interview, they
> have a firm salary cap and their HR dept is
> overworked/understaffed and behind in filling
> other positions.

I don't think we missed that at all.

Maybe it's best to aim low, at least in order to get an interview?

> Maybe it's best to aim low, at least in order to get an
> interview?

How low are you willing to price yourself in order to get the job?

Whatever the lowest number is that you cite, that's the top dollar they'll pay.

If you've been out of work awhile, I can see naming a low figure just to get in the door.

Otherwise, I don't see many justifications for playing that game.

BTW: If this is a job that you really want, send 2 resumes. One to the recruiter/HR dep't with whatever hoops they want you to jump through taken care of and one to the head of the department/company with the best cover letter you can muster and don't mention the salary req's.

Most of my work has come from my resume being on the desk of the right guy at the right time.

Greg the dogsitter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeM, I appreciate your response; I'm sure you're
> accurately describing what's going on. However...
>
> JoeM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What people are missing is that this is a
> tactic
> > used to wittle down candidates because they
> have
> > more applicants then they want to interview,
> they
> > have a firm salary cap and their HR dept is
> > overworked/understaffed and behind in
> filling
> > other positions.
>
> I don't think we missed that at all.
>
> Maybe it's best to aim low, at least in order to
> get an interview?

Greg, I said that for people who are advising you to not list your salary requirements. To the HR reviewer or the bot that scans your online resume submission, your application will be seen as incomplete and will probably be passed over, depending on the HR setup.

If it's a smaller company, where you can be pretty sure that somone will actually be reviewing everything that comes in, you might give it a try and maybe you can negotiate the old fashioned way.

That's actually what happened on my present job but I went thru a few hundred applications before that one came up.

Don't underprice yourself. If they determine that you are willing to accept less than the norm, or their intended compensation package, you will either be stuck being underpaid, as some have said, if you are lucky enough to get the job or you will be passed up because they will feel you are not good enough to demand more.

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JoeM