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Cube upgrade
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 04, 2010 05:31PM
Open G4 Cube in front of me, mostly disassembled. Processor is not a Cube processor, instead it's for all the G4-upgradeable machines (350-1GHz ones). However, the Cube is electrically the same as the G4 processors, there's just the steric hindrance problem of cramming it into the Cube processor's previous home.

I've eyeballed most of the tolerances and surprisingly, this OWC Mercury processor looks like it'll fit after removing the fan, except for the jumper pins which control the speed. They'll have to be significantly bent if not clipped down and the jumpers replaced with hard drive size jumpers. I'll also clock down the 1.2 GHz processor (runs @1.5 in DA and Saw) to 1.0 just for starters.

I've already replaced the lame-o Rage128 with a Radeon 9000 and have a new 160GB WD Blue in there along with 1.5GB CL2 RAM.

Um.

So I just need to do it. Juuuuuuust need to do it.

I don't like clipping metal and bending stuff.


We'll see how this goes...
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: mikebw
Date: February 04, 2010 05:33PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
I don't like clipping metal and bending stuff.


We'll see how this goes...

Come on, that's what true DIY is all about!

EDIT: Oh, and how about some pics?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2010 05:33PM by mikebw.
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Winston
Date: February 04, 2010 05:53PM
We've got an upgraded Cube with a PowerLogix 1.8 GHz processor and an nVidia PC video card flashed to Mac. Still using the original 17" Apple Studio Display with an Apple DVI to ADC adapter. My only real complaint is that web video does not seem to take advantage of the video card.

You are aware of the 128 GB hard drive limit without Intech's SpeedTools? And that you'd still be best off partitioning the drive into 127.99 GB and the rest?

Other places to look if you need help are cubeowner and xlr8yourmac (sounds like you might already know about these, but just in case):

[www.cubeowner.com]

[www.xlr8yourmac.com]


Good luck.

- Winston



------------------------
Be seeing you.
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 04, 2010 06:00PM
Quote
mikebw
Quote
Lew Zealand
I don't like clipping metal and bending stuff.


We'll see how this goes...

Come on, that's what true DIY is all about!

EDIT: Oh, and how about some pics?

Here's the before (no after pic yet!):
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Z
Date: February 04, 2010 06:04PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
... there's just the steric hindrance problem of cramming it into the Cube processor's previous home...

+1 for using steric hindrance everyday language.
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 04, 2010 06:06PM
Hi Winston, I'm familiar with Cubeowner (registered, no posts yet), that's where I got the info for doing the slight mod on other video cards to get them to fit in the Cube. I go by XLR8YM.com every day but didn't think to check them out for the Cube yet - I'll go there now.

I have the InTech Hi-Cap driver and used it on my main Beige machine years ago (400GB HD when they came out) but in this case, I'm using the 160 in 128/137GB mode and eating the GB loss for now. If everything else works, I'll grab a 300GB IDE drive I have here and do the InTech thing on it.

Onward!
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 04, 2010 06:09PM
Quote
Z
Quote
Lew Zealand
... there's just the steric hindrance problem of cramming it into the Cube processor's previous home...

+1 for using steric hindrance everyday language.

cool smiley 3 years of Chem results in permanent brain infection. Good thing is that Mrs Z also took those years of Chem or she'd look at me funny.

Well, funnier at any rate...
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Z
Date: February 04, 2010 06:12PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
cool smiley 3 years of Chem results in permanent brain infection. Good thing is that Mrs Z also took those years of Chem or she'd look at me funny.

Well, funnier at any rate...

If only my Mrs Z didn't have to occasionally suffer from eyes glazed over...
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Winston
Date: February 04, 2010 06:40PM
Do install a fan in the Cube if it doesn't have one.


Good luck.

- Winston



------------------------
Be seeing you.
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Diana
Date: February 04, 2010 07:43PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
Z
Quote
Lew Zealand
... there's just the steric hindrance problem of cramming it into the Cube processor's previous home...

+1 for using steric hindrance everyday language.

cool smiley 3 years of Chem results in permanent brain infection. Good thing is that Mrs Z also took those years of Chem or she'd look at me funny.

Well, funnier at any rate...

Only 3? Could be worse ... cudda gone for the piled-higher-and-deeper degree! And yes, the spousal unit also went that route.

Have you overcome the steric hindrance problem, or is the overall process nonspontaneous, requiring a substantial activation energy to overcome the entropic considerations? How do you know this isn't a forbidden transition state? Any enthalpy considerations? And no, I haven't checked the sites mentioned earlier, as I don't have a Cube. (Really wanted one though!)

Pictures, please! And the bendy and clippy parts are what makes it fun. wink smiley
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: OWC Jamie
Date: February 04, 2010 08:51PM
I'm just sitting back and watching to see how this one plays out smiling smiley You do realize we sell parts MADE for that machine, right?

smiling smiley



Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Winston
Date: February 04, 2010 09:05PM
Fan at OWC, $7.99

[eshop.macsales.com]


Jamie -

Why doesn't OWC carry a video card for the Cube? I would think that people who are willing to pay for a processor upgrade would also be willing to pay to upgrade the video card. Does no one make one? Or does that open up the can of DVI to ADC worms too wide?

The PC video card I have works great, although it doesn't fit the Cube's port openings as well as I'd like. It needs about a 1/2 inch extension on the slot it plugs into. It doesn't look like it would take much work to get one that fit fairly well.


- Winston



------------------------
Be seeing you.
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 04, 2010 09:06PM
looks like fun, i'm kind of jealous.



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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: OWC Jamie
Date: February 04, 2010 09:33PM
Nobody has made a video card for the Cube since 2002..... the end-all-be-all used to be the nVidia GeForce3, but there are a multitude of hacked PC cards out there that do fit in the Cube with some work still around.



Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 05, 2010 07:03AM
Quote
Diana
Have you overcome the steric hindrance problem, or is the overall process nonspontaneous, requiring a substantial activation energy to overcome the entropic considerations? How do you know this isn't a forbidden transition state? ...

Seems I should have had to click something that said I was 18 or older before reading this thread. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go check on my acid and alkaline phosphatase situation.
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: February 05, 2010 08:43AM
Quote
OWC Jamie
I'm just sitting back and watching to see how this one plays out smiling smiley You do realize we sell parts MADE for that machine, right?

smiling smiley

Does anyone still make a processor upgrade for the Cube?



Grateful11
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: OWC Jamie
Date: February 05, 2010 09:27AM
[eshop.macsales.com]



Good Luck!
Jamie Dresser
Other World Computing
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: February 05, 2010 10:01AM
Quote
OWC Jamie
[eshop.macsales.com]

Thanks Jamie! Are they not always available because I thought I checked a few months ago
and there wasn't any listed.



Grateful11
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 05, 2010 10:29AM
I'm familiar with the processors available and I've perused the OWC Cube section for the 2 current ones a few times recently but the simple answer is that I like to see if things work, though usually only if it doesn't involve permanent modifications (w/tinsnips, etc.).

The simple answer with this upgrade is that I don't want to spend the $210 for a new one as this was a free processor from a dead G4 DA and if this works, it is the best use of the processor for my needs (OK, wants).

I couldn't do it last night due to time constraints but today is wiiiiide open...
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 05, 2010 10:48AM
Quote
Diana
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
Z
Quote
Lew Zealand
... there's just the steric hindrance problem of cramming it into the Cube processor's previous home...

+1 for using steric hindrance everyday language.

cool smiley 3 years of Chem results in permanent brain infection. Good thing is that Mrs Z also took those years of Chem or she'd look at me funny.

Well, funnier at any rate...

Only 3? Could be worse ... cudda gone for the piled-higher-and-deeper degree! And yes, the spousal unit also went that route.

Have you overcome the steric hindrance problem, or is the overall process nonspontaneous, requiring a substantial activation energy to overcome the entropic considerations? How do you know this isn't a forbidden transition state? Any enthalpy considerations? And no, I haven't checked the sites mentioned earlier, as I don't have a Cube. (Really wanted one though!)

Pictures, please! And the bendy and clippy parts are what makes it fun. wink smiley

Mrs Z and I went the MS route in Bio, not the piled higher and deeper but still spent a total of 10 years on those (never mind about that story...).

OK, the overall process is not only not spontaneous but is contingent on my personal activation energy which is very substantial. It is not a forbidden transition state as in a lower pressure environment, this reaction progresses quite easily. In fact just yesterday a similar reaction progressed with the proper stoichometry achieving a 100% reaction efficiency. That G4 is sitting next to me right now running a calendar server. Enthalpy in the final product is the real problem here which is why I'm clocking it down about 200 MHz. Initial excess reaction products will be the OWC fan and heatsink, but perhaps I haven't calculated the stoichimetry properly and the fan will actually be reincorporated into the final design. It does not appear to be an adiabatic process. The entire reaction is endothermic, fueled by donuts, hopefully.

I've even served as the catalyst in a reaction with stoichiometric coefficient of zero, a functional isomerization, however the benefits of this reaction were not immediately apparent afterwards. Hmm, now that I think of it, I may not have been the perfect catalyst as I needed pizza and beer afterwards.
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Diana
Date: February 05, 2010 04:13PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
Diana
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
Z
Quote
Lew Zealand
... there's just the steric hindrance problem of cramming it into the Cube processor's previous home...

+1 for using steric hindrance everyday language.

cool smiley 3 years of Chem results in permanent brain infection. Good thing is that Mrs Z also took those years of Chem or she'd look at me funny.

Well, funnier at any rate...

Only 3? Could be worse ... cudda gone for the piled-higher-and-deeper degree! And yes, the spousal unit also went that route.

Have you overcome the steric hindrance problem, or is the overall process nonspontaneous, requiring a substantial activation energy to overcome the entropic considerations? How do you know this isn't a forbidden transition state? Any enthalpy considerations? And no, I haven't checked the sites mentioned earlier, as I don't have a Cube. (Really wanted one though!)

Pictures, please! And the bendy and clippy parts are what makes it fun. wink smiley

Mrs Z and I went the MS route in Bio, not the piled higher and deeper but still spent a total of 10 years on those (never mind about that story...).

OK, the overall process is not only not spontaneous but is contingent on my personal activation energy which is very substantial. It is not a forbidden transition state as in a lower pressure environment, this reaction progresses quite easily. In fact just yesterday a similar reaction progressed with the proper stoichometry achieving a 100% reaction efficiency. That G4 is sitting next to me right now running a calendar server. Enthalpy in the final product is the real problem here which is why I'm clocking it down about 200 MHz. Initial excess reaction products will be the OWC fan and heatsink, but perhaps I haven't calculated the stoichimetry properly and the fan will actually be reincorporated into the final design. It does not appear to be an adiabatic process. The entire reaction is endothermic, fueled by donuts, hopefully.

I've even served as the catalyst in a reaction with stoichiometric coefficient of zero, a functional isomerization, however the benefits of this reaction were not immediately apparent afterwards. Hmm, now that I think of it, I may not have been the perfect catalyst as I needed pizza and beer afterwards.

The stoichiometric coefficient may have been (near?) zero, but with the rewards of pizza and BEER afterwards, I bet the increased kinetic rate for the reaction was quite beneficial!

And a supposedly endothermic reaction involving the combustion of donuts? Hmmm....

My specialty is analytical, and the spousal's was inorganic (worked in organometallics). It always takes longer than you plan to get where you THINK you want to go, so we could swap stories some other time. I'm just wondering about the signal-to-noise ratio here--comparing the speed and elegance of the newer systems versus the novelty of the upgrades and any attendant problems that may arise. Unless, of course, the older systems are in use to service end-of-life products that have no possibility of upgrades without complete redesign and ... and .... wait ... never mind, I already have one of those projects (I could be describing my own life here!).
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Re: Cube upgrade
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 06, 2010 09:56PM
Quote
Diana
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
Diana
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
Z
Quote
Lew Zealand
... there's just the steric hindrance problem of cramming it into the Cube processor's previous home...

+1 for using steric hindrance everyday language.

cool smiley 3 years of Chem results in permanent brain infection. Good thing is that Mrs Z also took those years of Chem or she'd look at me funny.

Well, funnier at any rate...

Only 3? Could be worse ... cudda gone for the piled-higher-and-deeper degree! And yes, the spousal unit also went that route.

Have you overcome the steric hindrance problem, or is the overall process nonspontaneous, requiring a substantial activation energy to overcome the entropic considerations? How do you know this isn't a forbidden transition state? Any enthalpy considerations? And no, I haven't checked the sites mentioned earlier, as I don't have a Cube. (Really wanted one though!)

Pictures, please! And the bendy and clippy parts are what makes it fun. wink smiley

Mrs Z and I went the MS route in Bio, not the piled higher and deeper but still spent a total of 10 years on those (never mind about that story...).

OK, the overall process is not only not spontaneous but is contingent on my personal activation energy which is very substantial. It is not a forbidden transition state as in a lower pressure environment, this reaction progresses quite easily. In fact just yesterday a similar reaction progressed with the proper stoichometry achieving a 100% reaction efficiency. That G4 is sitting next to me right now running a calendar server. Enthalpy in the final product is the real problem here which is why I'm clocking it down about 200 MHz. Initial excess reaction products will be the OWC fan and heatsink, but perhaps I haven't calculated the stoichimetry properly and the fan will actually be reincorporated into the final design. It does not appear to be an adiabatic process. The entire reaction is endothermic, fueled by donuts, hopefully.

I've even served as the catalyst in a reaction with stoichiometric coefficient of zero, a functional isomerization, however the benefits of this reaction were not immediately apparent afterwards. Hmm, now that I think of it, I may not have been the perfect catalyst as I needed pizza and beer afterwards.

The stoichiometric coefficient may have been (near?) zero, but with the rewards of pizza and BEER afterwards, I bet the increased kinetic rate for the reaction was quite beneficial!

And a supposedly endothermic reaction involving the combustion of donuts? Hmmm....

My specialty is analytical, and the spousal's was inorganic (worked in organometallics). It always takes longer than you plan to get where you THINK you want to go, so we could swap stories some other time. I'm just wondering about the signal-to-noise ratio here--comparing the speed and elegance of the newer systems versus the novelty of the upgrades and any attendant problems that may arise. Unless, of course, the older systems are in use to service end-of-life products that have no possibility of upgrades without complete redesign and ... and .... wait ... never mind, I already have one of those projects (I could be describing my own life here!).

Endothermic... I think I got it right, necessitating the addition of heat, or at least consuming heat from the surroundings, to be replenished by wonderful donut combustion! Maybe I got my causality direction wrong, which is something I did on occasion.

Mrs. Z and I met in Analytical Chem class & lab. We studied together for the second test and she smoked me and got the highest grade on the test. Must have been her study partner... ;) And the rest is nerd history.

As for these type of projects, I've been doing them for 20 years now (bought a 10 MHz ZipGS accelerator for my IIgs as well as a SCSI card, sound card, Z80 card). My PMac 7600 housed 7 different processors during it's 11 year tenure with me. Nowadays I have access to a lot of old tech which I've recycled for the house (15" iMac G4, 12" PBG4 I'm typing on now, both of which replaced G3 Pismos 6 mo. ago). This is an attempt to use a processor which is functional but unused in another donated G4 for a "better" use - to make something as cool as the Cube actually useful again.

Progress as I left it on Friday— there are some very small tolerances problems which can be overcome as Mrs. Z informed me of someone on campus she's used for some metalwork and he should be able to remove the three 1mm thick sections I need on the Cube's heat spreader.
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