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Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 07:21AM
Safari - under Develop menu, User Agent, it will not stay on Safari, but reverts back to Mozilla 4.xx. This has been a problem for a looong time! I keep sending reports to Apple, even talked to a gut at Apple about it... no fix yet. Keeps me from using Safari.

SeaMonkey - mmm, ok, but don't like the way it handles bookmarks, and it has some other issues.

iCab - almost there, but not for $25

OmniWeb - used to be my favorite, I even paid $15 for 5 license, but it crashes every time I use it, on all my Macs.

Camino - still trying to make it my favorite, but you can't even choose a user agent (have it to identify itself as another browser to sites). This feature is vital, unless you want to use IE!

Opera - almost my favorite, but after using it a while, I always quit and go back to something else.

And for the two I don't use: FireFox/Chrome - I used to like FireFox way back when it was called Phoenix, but maybe I need to download it again. Chrome - what?!? From Google?? Hmmmm, I might try it, but for some reason, I just can't feel good about Google. I even use Startpage for my search engine (right, Startpage, try it).

Yes, I demand a lot from my browsers; for now, I want to use Safari most of the time, it has become my favorite, but simply cannot on many sites because of it reverting back to the old Mozilla user agent issue...

Sorry for the long rant, but yesterday, I had to spend way too much time trying to get some work done, and the faults of all the above browsers cost me about two hours.

Ok, have a great day all! Even if your browser gets in your waywhine smiley



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 05, 2010 07:24AM
>>but simply cannot on many sites because of it reverting back to the old Mozilla user agent issue

is that in "automatic" user agent mode? why is your user agent string so important to you?

have you tried Firefox 3.6? Its making decent improvements in memory usage.



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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 07:29AM
matt, yes in Automatic, no matter what you set it as, it will revert. It's important when you go to a site that says, "Sorry, download the latest version of IE, FF, etc., here.... Right, you know one of the reasons I left Phoenix/FireFox, but that was a long time ago, I will probably go ahead and download it today. I know, I am weird about FF, I'll get it. Wife had to get FF the other day because an educational site had the message - download IE/FF...



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 05, 2010 07:47AM
Quote
GuyGene
. . . I just can't feel good about Google. I even use Startpage for my search engine (right, Startpage, try it).

Hmm. . . Camino (which I'm using now) isn't on the Startpage compatibility list. Nor, for that matter, is Safari. . .

I wouldn't mind finding a more intelligent search engine than Google, which is stupid.

I don't know what 'user agents' are, but I don't like Firefox because it constantly updates itself, or asks for updates, or installs them, or whatever: it's annoying.

I stopped using Safari (which I like) because it was 'unexpectedly quitting' all the time (is there ever an 'expected' quit?).

/Mr Lynn



"Hillbilly at Harvard"
Honky-tonk Country and Bluegrass
Founded in 1948 by Pappy Ben Minnich
Saturdays 9am - 11am Eastern
WHRB-FM, Cambridge, MA
Streaming at [www.WHRB.org]
Be there!

The HAH weblog: [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

Topical weblog: [walkingcreekworld.wordpress.com]

On the river in Saxonville.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 08:01AM
Mrlynn, I just added Startpage to Camino, works fine.



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 05, 2010 08:29AM
I find it a bit absurd that you'd be ranting about this now. browser quality is MUCH higher than it was just a year ago. that said, we expect a lot more out of browsers as well.



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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: flareslow
Date: February 05, 2010 08:34AM
Have you seen this for Firefox?

User Agent Switcher
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 05, 2010 08:40AM
Quote
GuyGene
Mrlynn, I just added Startpage to Camino, works fine.

How? I went here,

[startpage.com]

and clicked Install, but nothing happens, and nothing is added to the Search field in Camino.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 08:40AM
Quote
mattkime
I find it a bit absurd that you'd be ranting about this now. browser quality is MUCH higher than it was just a year ago. that said, we expect a lot more out of browsers as well.

matt, thanks for including the last sentence above. The ..."that said..." part. That's it. I'll forgive you first sentence, about being absurd...

And flareslow, thanks; I'll get that and try it on SeaMonkey.



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 08:44AM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
GuyGene
Mrlynn, I just added Startpage to Camino, works fine.

How? I went here,

[startpage.com]

and clicked Install, but nothing happens, and nothing is added to the Search field in Camino.

/Mr Lynn

Just go to Startpage, copy the URL, then paste it into wherever you want it in Camino, etc. I then shorten the name. I put it into my personal favorites bar, where the Home button is located. Hope this helps.



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 05, 2010 08:52AM
Quote
GuyGene

Just go to Startpage, copy the URL, then paste it into wherever you want it in Camino, etc. I then shorten the name. I put it into my personal favorites bar, where the Home button is located. Hope this helps.

Oh, but you can't get it into the default Search window?

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Mike Sellers
Date: February 05, 2010 08:53AM
Quote
mrlynn
I don't know what 'user agents' are

One example: some numbnuts code websites to only recognize Windows browsers so this fools them. The Georgia Dept of Revenue site is like this so I have to switch the User Agent to IE in order to log in.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: February 05, 2010 08:54AM
I just installed Glims on Safari and I think it may have changed more stuff than I wanted too.
I like all the search Engines it added and I added Startpage as per instructions. I thought I had
lost the "X" box on my Tabs but under the Flavicon thingy or whatever you call it.



Grateful11




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2010 08:57AM by Grateful11.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: volcs0
Date: February 05, 2010 09:36AM
Am a happy Chrome user here for a few months now. Maybe I'm not that demanding from my browsers, but it gets the job done. I was a dedicated Camino user for many years, then Safari, and now Chrome.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 05, 2010 09:38AM
Quote
Mike Sellers
Quote
mrlynn
I don't know what 'user agents' are

One example: some numbnuts code websites to only recognize Windows browsers so this fools them. The Georgia Dept of Revenue site is like this so I have to switch the User Agent to IE in order to log in.

We run into this all the time. In the office I insist that our staff use Firefox and not IE (it's a Windows office, unfortunately), but some industry websites support only IE (e.g. United Healthcare).

So how do you find and use 'user agents'?

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 09:52AM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Mike Sellers
Quote
mrlynn
I don't know what 'user agents' are

One example: some numbnuts code websites to only recognize Windows browsers so this fools them. The Georgia Dept of Revenue site is like this so I have to switch the User Agent to IE in order to log in.

We run into this all the time. In the office I insist that our staff use Firefox and not IE (it's a Windows office, unfortunately), but some industry websites support only IE (e.g. United Healthcare).

So how do you find and use 'user agents'?

/Mr Lynn

Now y'all are beginning to understand my browser rant - last few posts indicate some of the things I deal with.

Mr Lynn, in Safari, under Preferences, go to Advanced and click on the box that says show Develop in menu; then, under the Develop menu, click on User Agent and click on whichever browser you want web sites to identify as the browser being used. It will be Safari, etc., when you click on that as the browser to be identified, but, alas, it will not stay on Safari, Automatic, no matter what I have tried, including talking directly to an Apple person about this issue on the phone yesterday.

I don't know how to make your Windows FireFox do this, but I think flareslow mentioned a FireFox plugin above that will do it.

In spite of the so-called browser maturity, some of us are still frustrated with browser behavior... At least we do have choices, albeit still very flawed. Guess it doesn't much matter to the casual user, but takes much time from my work (I work at home, self-employed, so I come to sites like this one for a break).



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Doc
Date: February 05, 2010 09:59AM
Quote
GuyGene
Safari - under Develop menu, User Agent, it will not stay on Safari, but reverts back to Mozilla 4.xx. This has been a problem for a looong time! I keep sending reports to Apple, even talked to a gut at Apple about it... no fix yet. Keeps me from using Safari.

Remove the com.apple.safari.plist file from your ~/Library/Preferences folder.

You'll have to change some of your pref's back the way you like them afterwards, but it should solve your problem.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 10:09AM
Thanks, Doc; I did try that on an older version of Safari, but it's been a while. I'll give it a try...



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 05, 2010 10:27AM
while you're complaining about so called browser maturity, you're complaints are awfully vague. if you were more precise then we might be able to offer solutions.

For firefox you want the User Agent Switcher, however, a better option may be Header Control. Header control allows you to set the user agent on a per site basis. unfortunately it hasn't been updated for 3.6, although it works with 3.5 and lower.



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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 10:43AM
Quote
mattkime
while you're complaining about so called browser maturity, you're complaints are awfully vague. if you were more precise then we might be able to offer solutions.

For firefox you want the User Agent Switcher, however, a better option may be Header Control. Header control allows you to set the user agent on a per site basis. unfortunately it hasn't been updated for 3.6, although it works with 3.5 and lower.

Ok, matt, you must not use browsers as much as I. So, I think I stated the problem pretty clearly. It is simply that my present favorite, Safari, does not work on many sites I use. My Lynn, Mike Sellers got it right above - they seem to have some of the same issues as I have.

That's it. I must use several browsers to do my work - that's all. Safari nor none of the others I have tried works on some very important sites I must use. User Agent doesn't work properly in Safari, etc. Granted, I have still not downloaded the newest FireFox yet.

Anyway, I appreciate your willingness to help.



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2010 10:46AM by GuyGene.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: February 05, 2010 10:53AM
Quote
GuyGene

That's it. I must use several browsers to do my work - that's all. Safari nor none of the others I have tried works on some very important sites I must use. User Agent doesn't work properly in Safari, etc. Granted, I have still not downloaded the newest FireFox yet.

This has nothing to do with the browsers themselves and everything to do with the idiot who made the website. If everyone stuck to standards we wouldn't have a problem.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 05, 2010 11:18AM
>>Ok, matt, you must not use browsers as much as I.

eye rolling smiley

>>Safari nor none of the others I have tried works on some very important sites

What are these very important sites that don't work for the majority of visitors? (all three versions of IE have 36% usage rate, for comparison, firefox has 46%)



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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: silvarios
Date: February 05, 2010 12:58PM
Shoot, if you like iCab that much, just pay the $25. I did years ago when it was the only
modern browser still being updated for the classic Mac OS. I have never regretted my purchase, 6 years and counting.

Or jut stick with Opera for now. Hopefully the next few months will bring the Opera 10.5 update. Finally a Mac native Opera (Cocoa) and some extra perfomance bumps to boot.


Nathan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2010 01:00PM by silvarios.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: February 05, 2010 01:02PM
Quote
GuyGene
Wife had to get FF the other day because an educational site had the message - download IE/FF...

Just because they say that doesn't mean you must abide. Almost all sites are accessible to Safari. I spit on those that aren't.

Quote

Safari nor none of the others I have tried works on some very important sites I must use

Step one is to complain loudly to the web master.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2010 01:05PM by Article Accelerator.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 05, 2010 01:04PM
Thanks, Nathan; I will probably buy iCab, not that I said I like it so much, but it seems to be pretty good, except yesterday when it was among the browsers that would not work on the sites - mattkime, those are work related sites, some of which are used by masses, some of which are more specific.

And C(-)ris, I think you nailed it. Oh well, maybe some day they'll get it right - probably after I no longer need it -



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 05, 2010 01:09PM
>>mattkime, those are work related sites, some of which are used by masses, some of which are more specific

if you mention which sites, then others could suggest methods of visiting the site. these things frequently need to be address on a site per site basis.



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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: February 05, 2010 01:10PM
Sounds like it's more of an issue with the sites you visit than the browsers.

I rarely have to spoof UserAgent strings anymore, but I understand a lot of specialized sites still go the "MSIE way or the hiway" route.





I am not Ryan Seacrest, and I do not approve this message.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: February 05, 2010 01:21PM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Mike Sellers
Quote
mrlynn
I don't know what 'user agents' are

One example: some numbnuts code websites to only recognize Windows browsers so this fools them. The Georgia Dept of Revenue site is like this so I have to switch the User Agent to IE in order to log in.

We run into this all the time. In the office I insist that our staff use Firefox and not IE (it's a Windows office, unfortunately), but some industry websites support only IE (e.g. United Healthcare).

So how do you find and use 'user agents'?

/Mr Lynn

I know I've been myuhc.com with Firefox because I don't IE on either of our Macs.



Grateful11
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Raydog
Date: February 05, 2010 04:55PM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
GuyGene

Just go to Startpage, copy the URL, then paste it into wherever you want it in Camino, etc. I then shorten the name. I put it into my personal favorites bar, where the Home button is located. Hope this helps.

Oh, but you can't get it into the default Search window?

/Mr Lynn

Oops, never mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2010 05:20PM by Raydog.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: Raydog
Date: February 06, 2010 08:24AM
GuyGene, you can use the Ixquick (Startpage) search plug-in available here. in SeaMonkey.
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Re: Browser rant (long) - fed up with them all...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: February 06, 2010 05:01PM
Thanks, Raydog; as usual, people here have been very helpful, and I have learned a few things in the process. I'll get that plugin for SeaMonkey. For now, I put Startpage in the personal bar and click on it like a normal web site, but to have it in the actual search window in browsers will be helpful...



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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