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Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: wowzer
Date: December 22, 2005 09:18PM
[www.buydig.com]


In case you are interested in buying. I ordered today, and it's already shipped. My expected delivery is tomorrow! And it's free shipping fedex ground.





All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: pRON aHOLIC
Date: December 22, 2005 09:41PM
dSLR are great, I think you will have a great time with this camera. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Otto Boners
Date: December 22, 2005 09:44PM
The blind leading the blind.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: wowzer
Date: December 22, 2005 09:51PM
Otto- not very helpful, my Mac friend. I thought mac users were helpful and nice guys...in fact that's why Mac users have survived all these years...being helpful to each other makes a strong community. IMO.

At any rate, pRon's been extremely helpful. I dont see why blind leading the blind is apropos. I'm sorry that I'm not better educated in photography...but everyone has to start somewhere. I suppose that you've never been at the start of a new project/interest and asked for help and information before...



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: New.Dad
Date: December 22, 2005 10:01PM
I think his comment is an allusion to the fact that buydig is a fly-by-night operation as are most camera stores, especially those based in New Jersey. Not sure how good or how bad buydig is, I usually stick to B&H and Adorama. I think there is (was?) a 3rd reputable store, camera oregon or something like that but I've never bought from them.

Hope your D50 is new and not a retur or refurb, and I also hope all accesories are included in the box. Please let us know.

OK, I stand corrected: buydig seems to be a legit operation, sorry, but the fact remains that there are many fly-by-night sites out there and I prefer to stick to the ones I trust.

My sincere apology to buydig.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2005 10:09PM by New.Dad.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Otto Boners
Date: December 22, 2005 10:09PM
Pron is a technically competent commercially successful news/sports photographer who basically is versed in modern equipment, who attempts to trumpet his limited technical knowledge and pass himself off as a photography expert.

In my opinion, he is very deficient in photographic history and in depth understanding of classic photographica. He has real user experience with a very limited range of specific cameras and lenses, mostly higher end Canon pro range SLR's.

From seeing his "photo" posts, he usually parrots what he reads on websites such as dpreview.com

You can be the judge of his artistic ability.

You, on the other hand, know almost nothing about photography but jump right into a fairly expensive camera and set of lenses which you may or may not ever understand how to use.

I would not approach it that way, I would start with basic inexpensive equipment and learn more about what I was buying before I went too high end.

It's impossible to give advice to someone who asks one day what's the difference between a tele and wide angle lens, with no clue, and then the next day makes a $1000 purchase of a DSLR and memory card after reading a couple of basic eb sites.

I just can't comprehend these types of people.



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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: wowzer
Date: December 22, 2005 10:36PM
I definitely dont know a lot about SLR's...but I usually do a large chunk of reading and research and then make a decision...that's actually my nature. I'm a fairly quick read and learn rather quickly. While I dont like to 'waste' money, I see where you're coming from. I guess fairly expensive is all in the eye of the beholder. My trouble was that my simple point and shoot cameras were not doing what I needed. Why buy a low end dSLR and then wind up spending a lot more in the long run? I figured to buy a decent camera now, and 'grow' into it. Lenses (especially more expensive ones) can come later.

As for understanding how to use...I'm always in the opinion of learn by doing. It's a 'free' lesson to use this camera after my initial down payment---with the added cost of some electricity. But I will make my best concerted efforts to learn how to use it.

My main unknowns/questions was in regard to the nomenclature for the lenses. I found out what the values mean, and can make a reasonable decision based on that. It was interesting to read about the aperature sizes and how that affects image quality---in particular how the aperature and focal length combine to give better/worse pictures.

Life's just a series of experiences...you must live it as much as possible.





All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Harry in MI
Date: December 23, 2005 12:00AM
Some of these guys need to be watched.............fairly interesting......

[donwiss.com]
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Otto Boners
Date: December 23, 2005 06:29AM
I could (and you could too), make really memorable, technically excellent photos with a $5 box camera or a low-end 1.3mp digital camera.

My point is, buying a dSLR in the expectation that your photography will vastly improve is a somewhat erroneous concept.

No doubt you can point the new dslr at something, click the shutter and get a well-exposed image most of the time, but to think that getting expensive (relative or not) equipment is going to make you an Edward Steichen is a false concept.

If you don't know who he is, or Weegee, or Margaret Bourke-White, or Richard Avedon, or a couple hundred others, that's something you should study the same time you study your new camera's instruction manual....
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Patroklos
Date: December 23, 2005 06:41AM
Another thing you can study is this classic example of snobbery, not even bothering to masquerade as advice.

I personally think you're going to have boatloads of fun with that camera. And thanks for sharing the price/link. Enjoy!!



-------------------------------------------------------
"We live in a fast-moving society, with short memories."
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: December 23, 2005 07:25AM
Some people, whether snob or not, have something to teach.

If you don't recall the elite professorial at college, who despite their manner, had something worthy to say and learn, then you haven't experienced all that you think you have.

Nor will you.



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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Otto Boners
Date: December 23, 2005 07:34AM
I am not being snobbish in the least, I'm giving him excellent advice.

When I was a teenager I liked ham radio.

I read all about it, built some simple transmitters, eventually worked my way up to more expensive equipment and fully comprehended what I was doing.

I had more fun and learned more than if I had been given an uber-expensive Hammerlund with no background on the hobby.

People now have the choice to buy monstrously sophisticated computers, cameras, video equipment, etc.

Is it really the smart thing or best thing to spend lots of money on technology you don't comprehend or can't use? Do you need a Panzer Tank to swat a fly?

Look at all the people here who use Dual G5 mega-towers with 4 gigs of RAM to post online, look at a few photos or check their email. They have no idea how to even fix a simple problem or how anything works.

You can give savages Kalashnikov AK-47's and call them an Army.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: December 23, 2005 07:46AM
I'd like an army of savage women.

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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Patroklos
Date: December 23, 2005 08:16AM
Sorry, putting someone down who has gone out of his way to give helpful (and very well phrased) advice on this forum, and tossing around names of classic photographers as though you're somehow not allowed to touch a SLR, let alone a DSLR until you've absorbed their import and made your own classic photos with limited equipment is the very definition of snobbery.

From what I can tell, wowser seems eager to learn, and doesn't want to be held back by limitations in 1.3 mp cameras. Sure you could take some great photos with one, but unlike the cheapest SLR or rangefinder of days past, there would be no way for him to explore the more creative means of expression that a camera with extensive controls offers. Depth of field, slow shutter speeds, composition by looking through a viewfinder (albeit not a super-bright or completely accurate one) rather than by staring at a little screen held at arm's length, night or low light photography without flash, the list goes on and on..

Sheesh.



-------------------------------------------------------
"We live in a fast-moving society, with short memories."
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Patroklos
Date: December 23, 2005 08:34AM
Don't think I discount your underlying "advice" that it is possible to learn photography and take some creative shots with inexpensive, or low-tech tools. I think any who is intherested in photography as a means of self-expression would benefit from a black and white photo course using an old SLR and a 50mm lens.

But next to that, I think the creative freedom that a modern DSLR gives is just about the next best thing.

Just for fun, here's a shot I took with my old Quicktake 200:





-------------------------------------------------------
"We live in a fast-moving society, with short memories."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2005 08:44AM by Patroklos.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Don Kiyoti
Date: December 23, 2005 11:32AM
Otto, you are so full of it (and full of yourself).

The D50 IS a basic camera, as are the other entry-level DSLRs such as the Canon Rebel XT and the Pentax istDS (which I own). That is, basic for a modern camera.

Wowser wishes to learn about phography. He should start with a pinhole camera then? I didn't. He should get a K1000 and a bunch of film before he's allowed to go digital? Or he should be restricted to a point & shoot digicam until he "graduates?" He will learn more about the technical side of photography with a DSLR that can be used manually than any other sort of digital camera.

It's true that if Wowser turns out to have a "blind eye" for photography he will be just as talentless with a D50 as with a Kodak EasyShare or a Brownie. But that is for him to determine, not you.





[picasaweb.google.com] [www.flickr.com]
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 23, 2005 12:34PM
Wow, I just gained a fair amount of respect for Otto - then i realized it was based on insulting someone else.

His assessment of pron is accurate although more harsh than anyone needed.

$800 isn't a big jump for this particular person. Also, while it might not be the cheapest way to get started in photography, it is one of the easier ways.

In all, he's right - you can learn a hell of a lot from very simple tools but less face it - most people aren't that serious about what they're doing.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: Patroklos
Date: December 23, 2005 12:56PM
As someone who thought he wanted to be a pro photographer & spent a couple years in Chicago as a photo assistant finding out why I did not want to do so, I'll say that ANYONE who makes a living in photography earns my respect. Whether that's shooting shoes in a studio or athletes on a court or weddings.



-------------------------------------------------------
"We live in a fast-moving society, with short memories."
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 23, 2005 01:13PM
>>Whether that's shooting shoes in a studio or athletes on a court or weddings.

oooph. those are the reasons why i don't necessarily respect professional photographers....
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: wowzer
Date: December 23, 2005 09:58PM
Don Kiyoti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wowser wishes to learn about phography. He should
> start with a pinhole camera then? I didn't. He
> should get a K1000 and a bunch of film before he's
> allowed to go digital? Or he should be restricted
> to a point & shoot digicam until he
> "graduates?" He will learn more about the
> technical side of photography with a DSLR that can
> be used manually than any other sort of digital
> camera.

That's what I figured.

> It's true that if Wowser turns out to have a
> "blind eye" for photography he will be just as
> talentless with a D50 as with a Kodak EasyShare or
> a Brownie. But that is for him to determine, not
> you.

Man, dont you know? I'm entirely talentless. ;)



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: elmo3
Date: December 27, 2005 06:38PM
Otto @#$%& Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not being snobbish in the least, I'm giving
> him excellent advice.

How would you know?

You're only speaking to hear yourself speak. So now you pass it off as "excellent advice"?

We'll be the judge of that, thank you very much. And you get a 2--for effort.
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Re: Nikon D50 + 18-55mm and 55-200mm for $819
Posted by: smoot
Date: January 10, 2006 07:14PM
"My point is, buying a dSLR in the expectation that your photography will vastly improve is a somewhat erroneous concept."

This is more a comment on consumerism than anything. Very few of us need anything new.

But I would argue that buying a D50 or a Rebel XT WOULD make photography more fun, and there's a good chance that would lead to better photographs.
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