The neighbor of a friend got robbed a couple days ago. They posted a TV on craigslist and someone scheduled a time to come by and get it. They showed up on time, but when the poster opened the door there were four people there in masks with guns. (I don't know if he looked out first or not.)

They taped his mouth, zip tied his legs and wrists and put a blanket over him. Apparently a woman stayed with him and said she would not hesitate to shoot him if he moved. The other three went upstairs where his wife and baby slept. They woke her up with a gun in her face, and tied her up too.

Then they ransacked the house for about a half hour before getting away.

---

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I guess I don't understand the part about why they needed craigslist?
Did the guy somehow reveal he'd be home alone in the course of negitiations?

There have been a rash of craigslist robberies in the SF Bay area lately as well.

Wow... I made a just a few sales with CL. But, I met the person at Starbucks with the product. Certainly need to be careful. I need to share this with a friend that does a lot of CL transactions.

I recall a story on TV News where some thugs came to get a puppy from a CL ad, and ended up stealing all the pups when they arrived.

Quote
Black
I guess I don't understand the part about why they needed craigslist?
Did the guy somehow reveal he'd be home alone in the course of negitiations?

Well, generally people are less suspect of people showing up at one's doorstep when they're expecting someone. They showed up right on time. I don't think he revealed he was home alone, because, well, he wasn't.

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Very scary, and exactly why I have never conducted a CL/eBay local purchase/sale at my private residence. I've had good luck meeting people either in public or at their workplace.

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It is what it is.

That's terrible. It does happen. I sell and buy stuff on Craigslist a lot and you have to be careful. I certainly should be more so myself.

Home robberies are on the rise here too. None of which has anything to do with a CL transaction. We have given away many goods via freecycle. To be on the safe side we will meet up the receivers at a busy public location more often now.

---

SoCal for now.

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
Black
I guess I don't understand the part about why they needed craigslist?
Did the guy somehow reveal he'd be home alone in the course of negitiations?

Well, generally people are less suspect of people showing up at one's doorstep when they're expecting someone. They showed up right on time. I don't think he revealed he was home alone, because, well, he wasn't.

I guess that works.

It's important to note that this type of crime is easier to commit in places where people don't get involved and law enforcement is rarely seen nor heard. Couldn't happen here in Chicago . . .

as a related issue, I don't like guns much, so what do folks use for 'home protection', if anything? I know how to use a gun, etc., but just wouldn't like having it around for fear of the remote possibility it be used improperly, etc...

---

----------------------

Couldn't happen here in Chicago . . . */sarcasm

Fixed that for ya'
As of last Sunday, Chicago tallied 113 homicides for 2010, compared with 101 for the same period last year. [www.csmonitor.com]

A year or so ago, a guy in Baltimore posted a car for sale on CL. He was outside his home; by the car @ the set time. A car drives up & he's gunned down dead. Turns out the seller was the eye-witness in a {gang related} capital murder case & was not receiving police protection.

---

10 years ago while living in Manhattan I found someone giving away a collapsible rolling garment rack on Craigslist. I arrive at the apartment to pick it up at the agreed time. She buzzes me in. It was a 30-something single woman living in a one-bedroom. She tells me the rolling rack is in the bedroom and she leads me in.

It was at that moment that I realize how weird the situation is. This young woman and I are alone in her apartment. In her bedroom. I have a duffel bag with a roll of duct tape (for securing the collapsible rolling rack), a screwdriver and scissors. She was extremely nice and offered me a few other free things if I wanted them. I thanked her and left with the rack.

It was a different time then.

Quote
Panopticon
Couldn't happen here in Chicago . . . */sarcasm

Fixed that for ya'
As of last Sunday, Chicago tallied 113 homicides for 2010, compared with 101 for the same period last year. [www.csmonitor.com]

Chicago is very quickly turning into Detroit which is very quickly turning into Lebanon in terms of violence.

A Chicago Representative was requesting the National Guard for security.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2010 07:39PM by Trouble.

lafinfil's area had a CL shootout.

I tried to find the news posting for this story... no luck. Anyone have a link?

When I sell on CL it's only for things of low value, and only for things I can meet them outside with. Nobody ever comes inside. I don't want strangers knowing about the dead bodies I have stashed in the bookcases.

Quote
Trouble

Quote
Panopticon
Couldn't happen here in Chicago . . . */sarcasm

Fixed that for ya'
As of last Sunday, Chicago tallied 113 homicides for 2010, compared with 101 for the same period last year. [www.csmonitor.com]

Chicago is very quickly turning into Detroit which is very quickly turning into Lebanon in terms of violence.

A Chicago Representative was requesting the National Guard for security.

Local TV news has been beating the national guard thing to death.
I'd be happy if they set up a permanent post in the block behind me.

Quote
volcs0
I tried to find the news posting for this story... no luck. Anyone have a link?

You didn't find it because it was actually not the neighbor of a friend, but upon further consideration is actually the neighbor of a friend's cousin's dog groomer's mail carrier, and it was a computer, not a TV, etc.

Quote
Kiva
as a related issue, I don't like guns much, so what do folks use for 'home protection', if anything? I know how to use a gun, etc., but just wouldn't like having it around for fear of the remote possibility it be used improperly, etc...

Yeah, statistics show a gun in the house is more likely kill the inhabitants than any potential intruder (or at least so I always hear

I think a good compromise is a baseball bat-- not likely to discharge accidentally, and better than being completely defenseless. The hard part is remembering you have it, since you'll likely want to hide it near your bed and probably won't notice it very often . . .

Or just meet the person at the door with the bat in your hand.

Here's what I don't get: who needs Craigslist to find somebody to rob? Maybe if he was selling thousands of dollars of jewelry, but if you saw that on CL, wouldn't you think the seller was running a scam? It's not like the For Sale section on craigslist is the only way to find an American household that has a teevee.

Is posting on craigslist more dangerous than walking your dog or going to the store or sitting on your couch watching Jeopardy?

There are plenty of home invasion robberies/burglaries every day. We had a couple of particularly nasty ones near my neighborhood recently. The whole craigslist paranoia thing is a red herring and sounds a bit far fetched in this particular story. I'd certainly like to see a link to the local news story to see all the details.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Searching google doesn't turn up this story, but there was a craigslist home invasion involving a car in which the victims were tied up yesterday in Philly.

[www.nbcphiladelphia.com]

Don't know what that proves though, since there are crimes everywhere all the time. I would think that contacting the victim in advance by phone or email would increase the likelihood of getting caught, since most perps are stupid. So this may or may not increase the risk of being a victim, but getting contact and f/u info before meeting, may increase the chance of the police solving any crime later.

Quote
michaelb
getting contact and f/u info before meeting

Um . . . never mind

Quote
davester
There are plenty of home invasion robberies/burglaries every day. We had a couple of particularly nasty ones near my neighborhood recently. The whole craigslist paranoia thing is a red herring and sounds a bit far fetched in this particular story. I'd certainly like to see a link to the local news story to see all the details.

---

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Quote
michaelb
I would think that contacting the victim in advance by phone or email would increase the likelihood of getting caught, since most perps are stupid. So this may or may not increase the risk of being a victim, but getting contact and f/u info before meeting, may increase the chance of the police solving any crime later.

That's for sure. The last thing a burglar wants is to rob a place with people present. The first thing the cops are going to do is determine the source of the telephone call. Also, with so many people taking part in the crime they almost certainly left clues fingerprints, tire tracks, etc). The crime M.O. seems completely irrational, as though the crooks intended to get caught.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2010 10:42PM by davester.

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
davester
There are plenty of home invasion robberies/burglaries every day. We had a couple of particularly nasty ones near my neighborhood recently. The whole craigslist paranoia thing is a red herring and sounds a bit far fetched in this particular story. I'd certainly like to see a link to the local news story to see all the details.

I'm clicking on the smiley but nothing's loading.

Here's what I don't get: who needs Craigslist to find somebody to rob?

Maybe the seller had posted something special that the robbers wanted? Then they took whatever else they found?

---

Northern California Coast

Quote
Black
It's important to note that this type of crime is easier to commit in places where people don't get involved and law enforcement is rarely seen nor heard. Couldn't happen here in Chicago . . .

. . . where community involvement is so high, even dead people get out the vote!

---

It is what it is.

Quote
3d
10 years ago while living in Manhattan I found someone giving away a collapsible rolling garment rack on Craigslist. I arrive at the apartment to pick it up at the agreed time. She buzzes me in. It was a 30-something single woman living in a one-bedroom. She tells me the rolling rack is in the bedroom and she leads me in.

It was at that moment that I realize how weird the situation is. This young woman and I are alone in her apartment. In her bedroom. I have a duffel bag with a roll of duct tape (for securing the collapsible rolling rack), a screwdriver and scissors. She was extremely nice and offered me a few other free things if I wanted them. I thanked her and left with the rack.

It was a different time then.

Something similar happened to me many years ago, with two distinct differences: 1) The woman in question was a nun, and 2) there was no mistaking her intent once I was in her apartment.

---

It is what it is.

Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
1) The woman in question was a nun, and 2) there was no mistaking her intent once I was in her apartment.

Do tell more!

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Quote
davester

Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
1) The woman in question was a nun, and 2) there was no mistaking her intent once I was in her apartment.

Do tell more!

Yeah, I saw that movie once. The nun was defrocked pretty quickly, but didn't seem to mind.

Always answer the door with a gun in your hand.

---

I'm not a bad guy! I work hard, and I love my kids. So why should I spend half my Sunday hearing about how I'm going to Hell? -Homer.

Quote
ajakeski
Always answer the door with a gun in your hand.

How about a Presa Canario, a Pitt and a Rot as welcome committee?

---

SoCal for now.

There's a huge difference between home invasions and burglaries.

I don't know that this incident did or didn't happen. I do know that there has been a marked increase in home invasions in the cities and counties near me.

A burglar, somebody who steals something from somewhere after entering a premises, doesn't want to be seen and doesn't want people around who might be witnesses (shoplifters excepted).

Robbery suspects/home invasion artists are a different breed. By definition there will always be a victim/victims present. They take some precaution, but are prepared to deal with people and are usually very dangerous. (A baseball bat may work on a burglar, otherwise...)

Home invasion victims are usually targeted for whatever reasons whereas burglaries are often a crime of opportunity.

On the face the CL aspect is could easily be social engineering. As mentioned, you're expecting someone, "normal" people would generally just answer the door. If not, they might peek out a window. If the victim had looked first, things might be different, but there are any number of things that could have happened.

The victim may have already been observed or somehow known to the suspects to have something of value. More info is needed.

Regardless, I've always been suspicious of people answering ads. A lot happens that just doesn't make the news.

I don't recommend people get a firearm for home protection as it requires a lot of pro-active work on their part to train and store a firearm properly. Lots more on all that, but this isn't the post for care and feeding.

Suffice it to say, under the circumstances of the original scenario, I'd rather have a firearm and a phone than a baseball bat.

But then I never open the door without looking.

Security tip for door-viewer users: make an attractive cover for the inside of the peeper. Light shows through and can tip off the "caller" that you're at the door. Also, one can peep in, too.

And don't talk when you approach the door. Footsteps can't always be heard, but you'd be surprised how well your voice can.

Andy's advice isn't practical for everyone, but it works for me.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

If I was living in an area where I wanted/needed to be armed when opening the door, I wouldn't be inviting strangers to my home.

Always answer the door with a gun in your hand.

But four to one would win, per the original post.

How about automatic weapons embedded in the exterior walls and pointed at the doorway?

---

High on a threshold yearning to sing
Down with the dancers having one last fling

But four to one would win, per the original post.

Not all of them.

Per the original post's scenario and AD's link in a later thread, the man was shot dead. The son was injured when he then tried to intervene.

I'll take somebody with me, maybe more than one.

As I do check the door before I open it, I would have an unexpected advantage. And truth be told, I'd be upgrading my defensive posture while calling the cavalry.

Since we're all experts in everything here... What happens if the intended victim doesn't answer the door because he saw them through a window or peep-hole? Do they go away? Do they force the door?

No sane person, however armed, would choose to go against four people at the same time, if some or all of them are armed. Yeah, there are some crazies who would, sure. (Tossing grenades does not count.) So most of us, gun in hand, would *not* open the door in those circumstances, if the choice is ours to make.

Once the door is opened it's not that difficult to force entry, possibly taking some or all of the tactical advantage. Unless the suspects are going after dealers or other known ne'er do wells, they use weapons to intimate the unsuspecting and possible kill them as a matter of course. So most victims will not have a chance at stopping an invasion.

It's all a situation, but I will not die because I chose to rely on hope.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Quote
RAMd®d
I don't know that this incident did or didn't happen.

You really think I'd just make this up and post it? Or you think that I don't know the people who I got the story from well enough to know they wouldn't make it up?

---

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Quote
ajakeski
Always answer the door with a gun in your hand.

I am usually everywhere with the ability to have gun in hand.
Perhaps more clearly described as hand-ON-gun.
Plenty that fit in pockets nowadays.

.32
.380
small 9s

Quote
davester

Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
1) The woman in question was a nun, and 2) there was no mistaking her intent once I was in her apartment.

Do tell more!

Not much more to the story. I'd just gotten married a few months before and was thus unavailable. I definitely would have gone for it if I'd been single at the time - how many men can say they've bedded a nun?

I felt bad for her, though - she clearly craved intimate contact with another human.

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It is what it is.