[www.businessinsider.com]


So, you're a small business owner who takes "pride in paying the full cost of health insurance for every full-time employee."

But, now you must stop providing this benefit because of health care reform. Because you are a generous person, you give your employees a raise to offset the loss.

Sounds great.

However, you offset the cost by less than half of what the benefit was costing you. And you don't actually give any reason as to why the new legislation is forcing you to do this.

This guy is making a political statement by shafting his employees and blaming it on Obama. He bases his actions on what he thinks might happen. Not anything that has happened. Health care costs have been increasing. They would have kept on increasing without any government action. If they keep on increasing regardless of the new laws, then why blame it on Obama?

Just cut the benefits, pocket the savings and quit looking for a scapegoat.

The bill is obviously very complicated, and his issues are not an area that I work in. My guess is that the substance of his complaint is that once the bill becomes fully effective, 2014 or so, there will be penalties and disincentives for busnesses to drop or reduce coverage after that date, so he is doing it now, in advance, so that he is not locked in to providing coverage then. He may also be small enough to fit under the mandate to provide coverage.

In any case, any reform of the system will cause disruptions in the transition, and his problem (cost and afforability of coverage for small businesses) is one of the fundamental points of the law and should be in much better position say 5 years out (2015 and beyond). I am not aware of any other credible proposal to address his problem, other than just nationalizing the whole thing under single payer. Of course then he woudl be up in arms because we would be taking that choice away from him and forcing him and his employees on to a standard plan.

I said this once and I am repeating it here. Just or not, ANY change in healthcare situation in America from this point on will be attributed the this bill. Don't dry about it. The singular failure if the bill is that not only it did not contain costs, it is making it go higher. It had to. 30 million new people and lower costs? Did YOU believe that?

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

What a jerk. He's saving over $500/mo per employee so he's going to pocket about $300 of it and is blaming Obama for his own greed. There was one accurate statement in the article:

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The law’s supporters will portray employers like me as bad guys who are using the new law as a smokescreen to make changes we wanted to make anyway.

Read more: [www.businessinsider.com]

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

[www.boston.com]
happening already without the political statement


<<They would have kept on increasing without any government action. If they keep on increasing regardless of the new laws, then why blame it on Obama?>>


Gee, you think it may have been that little pesky campaign promise to lower health care costs by $2500.00 for a typical family of four ?

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billb
[www.boston.com]
happening already without the political statement


<<They would have kept on increasing without any government action. If they keep on increasing regardless of the new laws, then why blame it on Obama?>>


Gee, you think it may have been that little pesky campaign promise to lower health care costs by $2500.00 for a typical family of four ?

The Obama campaign did not promise to lower health care costs by $2500 per typical family, they said that it could reduce costs up to $2500 per family:

[www.barackobama.com]

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Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan

On health care reform, the American people are too often offered two extremes - government-run health care with higher taxes or letting the insurance companies operate without rules. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong, and that’s why they’ve proposed a plan that strengthens employer coverage, makes insurance companies accountable and ensures patient choice of doctor and care without government interference.

The Obama-Biden plan provides affordable, accessible health care for all Americans, builds on the existing health care system, and uses existing providers, doctors and plans to implement the plan. Under the Obama-Biden plan, patients will be able to make health care decisions with their doctors, instead of being blocked by insurance company bureaucrats.

Under the plan, if you like your current health insurance, nothing changes, except your costs will go down by as much as $2,500 per year.

If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options.

And, more importantly, the bill that passed is substantially different from the plan Obama campaigned on.

This is the Obama campaign promise that made the insurance companies lose their collective minds. Most of the restrictions on them don't go into effect until 2014, and everyone I heard involved with this reform legislation said that premiums would continue to increase short term. This isn't a train that can stop on a dime, it's a sick system that will take a long time to recover:

Lowering Costs in the Insurance and Drug Markets: The insurance business today is dominated by a small group of large companies that has been gobbling up their rivals. There have been over 400 health care mergers in the last 10 years, and just two companies dominate a full third of the national market.

These changes were supposed to make the industry more efficient, but instead premiums have skyrocketed by over 87 percent.

Barack Obama will prevent companies from abusing their monopoly power through unjustified price increases. His plan will force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration. His new National Health Exchange will help increase competition by insurers.

I've just got a bad feeling that this is all like the "50% OFF" sales at the store... where the night before the employees go around and change all the posted prices to increase them by... Yes, 100%.

(and yes.. I saw a department store doing that to their Jewelry prices.)

Obama's excuse for his incompetency is the "would have been" defense, right along with "jobs saved". He can never register a positive on the scale, only less negative. People who accepted his promise of 30 million covered at no extra cost were either idiots or hacks or both.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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Dakota
This thread is not about the stock market or investments. It is about Obama. Anything to prop him up. It is a sad commentary that he needs to hang his hat on a one week performance. Fact of the matter is he has been unable to break out of 10,000. That's his ceiling.

Said the sage.

Hey, it's Friday, why not go out with some upbeat economic news.
DJI is up to 11,100 and hit a high for the year today with good earnings reports out from both manufacturing and some financials...signs of business confidence coming back, economy growing again, consumers spending again...
There is light at the end of the tunnel, and our friend Dakota is ready to give the President the credit.

Is there a limit on premiums?

If not, even if you limit overhead to 15% by law, there's an incentive to raise the overall premiums to increase the absolute dollars in that 15%.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2010 01:59PM by Bill in NC.

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Bill in NC
Is there a limit on premiums?

If not, even if you limit overhead to 15% by law, there's an incentive to raise the overall premiums to increase the absolute dollars in that 15%.

Yes, all increases are subject to state review, and states also received federal money to investigate insurers. States have already rejected or reduced premium increases in many cases, and will continue to do so. Companies that don't comply between now and 2014 will be denied access to millions of new customers when HCR kicks in fully, so there is a big incentive to comply.

" * In California, the Obama Administration and the state Insurance Commissioner called on Anthem Blue Cross to justify its proposed 39 percent increase. Upon investigation, the state determined that there were significant errors in the rate filing and Anthem Blue Cross withdrew the rate increase. On June 16, the Insurance Commissioner announced that rate hikes by the state’s four largest health insurers will be subject to an independent actuarial review.

* In New York, the state legislature recently passed and Governor signed legislation granting the state authority to review and approve health insurance premiums before they take effect, and increasing medical loss ratio percentages, with which insurers in the state must comply.

* In New Mexico, Insurance Superintendent Morris J. “Mo” Chavez resigned after he approved, without public hearings, a Blue Cross Blue Shield NM individual health insurance rate hike of 24.6 percent. The New Mexico Public Regulation Commission requested last month that the Insurance Superintendent suspend the rate increase and start another review.

* In Iowa, the Insurance Commissioner disapproved a 20 percent proposed increase by Gemworth, and reduced a 60 percent proposed increase by American Community Mutual to 16.5 percent.

* In Maine, Anthem Blue Cross’s request to raise rates by 18.1 percent was rejected by the state and a state court reaffirmed the state’s right to review premium increases.

* In Pennsylvania, the state is investigating premium increases made by nine of the state’s largest health insurance companies.

* In Massachusetts, state leaders capped rate increases requested by insurance companies."

Grace... except that historically most state 'Utilities" and "Insurance' commissions have been the lapdogs of the associated industry. I have little faith in these organizations.

>>Grace... except that historically most state 'Utilities" and "Insurance' commissions have been the lapdogs of the associated industry. I have little faith in these organizations.

Who would you like to play watchdog?

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all his certified financial advisors are going to starve on the minimum wages they are making unless they get that perk back.

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cbelt3
Grace... except that historically most state 'Utilities" and "Insurance' commissions have been the lapdogs of the associated industry. I have little faith in these organizations.

That's true, and that's why this law was necessary. That has been changed.

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Grace62

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Dakota
This thread is not about the stock market or investments. It is about Obama. Anything to prop him up. It is a sad commentary that he needs to hang his hat on a one week performance. Fact of the matter is he has been unable to break out of 10,000. That's his ceiling.

Said the sage.

Hey, it's Friday, why not go out with some upbeat economic news.
DJI is up to 11,100 and hit a high for the year today with good earnings reports out from both manufacturing and some financials...signs of business confidence coming back, economy growing again, consumers spending again...
There is light at the end of the tunnel, and our friend Dakota is ready to give the President the credit.

This is truly troubling. You are spending your Friday night rummaging through hundreds and hundreds of weeks old posts to come up with this and then post it to some unrelated thread? I have totally overtaken your life, woman. It is scary. You need help.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

You're a sad, sick little man Dakota.

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Dakota

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Grace62

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Dakota
This thread is not about the stock market or investments. It is about Obama. Anything to prop him up. It is a sad commentary that he needs to hang his hat on a one week performance. Fact of the matter is he has been unable to break out of 10,000. That's his ceiling.

Said the sage.

Hey, it's Friday, why not go out with some upbeat economic news.
DJI is up to 11,100 and hit a high for the year today with good earnings reports out from both manufacturing and some financials...signs of business confidence coming back, economy growing again, consumers spending again...
There is light at the end of the tunnel, and our friend Dakota is ready to give the President the credit.

This is truly troubling. You are spending your Friday night rummaging through hundreds and hundreds of weeks old posts to come up with this and then post it to some unrelated thread? I have totally overtaken your life, woman. It is scary. You need help.

Wow Dakota. You must have been having a bad day yesterday. So sorry if I made it worse.
Look, I am not one of the people who regularly exchanges silly put downs and childish insults with you. In fact, I've defended your right to post here and say whatever you want on many occasions.

BTW, when I typed that post it was still morning in my time zone and that was the last post I typed yesterday.

What I have done here is mirror back your own words. I remembered them because I started the thread (not that long ago) remarking on what became a historically good month for the stock market. You trashed everything I had to say...it took me 15 seconds to find that quote in the forum search engine because I remembered you saying "10,000 is Obama's ceiling" and thinking what a baseless remark that was...

Anyway, you haven't always been this negative and abusive, if all the insults on here are getting to you and you just want to come here and bully and trash people, that'd be kind of sad. Other people aren't here for that, for the most part. You often have interesting things to say and sometimes you're funny (in a good way) so stick around, but lay off the abuse, OK?

Grace, sorry if I went overboard. I meant no offense. As soon as I made that post I knew you would hold vigil to see when the Dow would go ver 11,000. That is fine. I too have all my retirement invested in the stock market. But if you want to politicize the market let me chime in. Markets always look to the future, and what is the most likely news coming out in about 10 days? You get my drift. The prospects of congress getting off the back businesses is no doubt encouraging. I find it ironic that your post history is filled with bashing of insurance companies, oil companies, pharmaceuticals and yet you celebrate their success. Don't you realize you are pulling on both ends of a rope?

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 10:28AM by Dakota.

I didn't politicize the market. That's you. Go back and read what you wrote.
And BTW, malfeasance by corporations is what kills the stock market. That's why we need regulation. Letting corporations run wild is not good for long term economic health. If you were paying attention, you'd know that.

Grace, Dakota LIKES the insults and abuse. Just yesterday he made a point of insulting you and attacking another poster whom I doubt Dakota even recognized let alone knew the man's political leanings. He starts this stuff. Now whether people should feed the troll is another topic. But Dakota is absolutely trying to get a rise from anyone who hasn't insulted him yet and will continue to do so. But more power to you for trying to treat him as if he wasn't here solely to be an ass.

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There are only a few states, per your own links, that are consumer-friendly on this issue.

As it stands now it is clear in most states there is no practical limit on premium increases.

Maybe 'Medicaid for all' would have been the better strategy...

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Grace62

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cbelt3
Grace... except that historically most state 'Utilities" and "Insurance' commissions have been the lapdogs of the associated industry. I have little faith in these organizations.

That's true, and that's why this law was necessary. That has been changed.

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Bill in NC
There are only a few states, per your own links, that are consumer-friendly on this issue.

As it stands now it is clear in most states there is no practical limit on premium increases.

Maybe 'Medicaid for all' would have been the better strategy...

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Grace62

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cbelt3
Grace... except that historically most state 'Utilities" and "Insurance' commissions have been the lapdogs of the associated industry. I have little faith in these organizations.

That's true, and that's why this law was necessary. That has been changed.

Bill,
Those are just a few examples of what states are doing. Health care reform applies to ALL states, all states are compelled to investigate all rate increases by health insurance companies, and federal money is available to help them do that.

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Grace62
I didn't politicize the market. That's you. Go back and read what you wrote.
And BTW, malfeasance by corporations is what kills the stock market. That's why we need regulation. Letting corporations run wild is not good for long term economic health. If you were paying attention, you'd know that.

What were Democrats doing since 2006 then? The corruption starts when big business gets in bed with the regulator, i.e. government. When Fannie buys the crap that mortgage companies are selling that is the corruption you have to stop. FHA is still the only place where you can finance practically 100% of your purchase. Don't give me we-need-more-regulation crap. You had the house and the senate and the white house and still didn't do anything about it. Fannie is on course to need even more bail outs. Your time is up, sister.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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Bill in NC

Maybe 'Medicaid for all' would have been the better strategy...

Except that even Medicare for some is going bankrupt.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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Dakota
Your time is up, sister.

Unless you stop talking to me that way, I have no interest in any further conversation.

Have a good day.

Calling someone a sister is an insult now? You can call me brother anytime.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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Dakota
Calling someone a sister is an insult now? You can call me brother anytime.

It's the tone, not the words themselves.

I don't have any idea what "your time is up sister means" but it sounds pretty nasty and certainly doesn't add any weight to whatever argument you are trying to make.

I think we can add misogyny to Dakota's list of undesirable traits.

Now you made him go Google Dennis and he just hates that.

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Grace62

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Dakota
Calling someone a sister is an insult now? You can call me brother anytime.

It's the tone, not the words themselves.

I don't have any idea what "your time is up sister means" but it sounds pretty nasty and certainly doesn't add any weight to whatever argument you are trying to make.

Time is up referred to that fact that you have had the congress for 4 years and did nothing. Elections are next week.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

Medicare is not a sustainable program as currently run, given its unlimited fee-for service structure.

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Dakota

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Bill in NC

Maybe 'Medicaid for all' would have been the better strategy...

Except that even Medicare for some is going bankrupt.