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With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: btfc
Date: August 24, 2011 10:39AM
[news.yahoo.com]

"NEW YORK (AP) — In New Brunswick, N.J., a building superintendent opened the door to apartment No. 1076 one balmy Tuesday and discovered an alarming scene: terrorist literature strewn about the table and computer and surveillance equipment set up in the next room.
The panicked superintendent dialed 911, sending police and the FBI rushing to the building near Rutgers University on the afternoon of June 2, 2009. What they found in that first-floor apartment, however, was not a terrorist hideout but a command center set up by a secret team of New York Police Department intelligence officers.
From that apartment, about an hour outside the department's jurisdiction, the NYPD had been staging undercover operations and conducting surveillance throughout New Jersey. Neither the FBI nor the local police had any idea.
Since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the NYPD has become one of the country's most aggressive domestic intelligence agencies. A months-long investigation by The Associated Press has revealed that the NYPD operates far outside its borders and targets ethnic communities in ways that would run afoul of civil liberties rules if practiced by the federal government. And it does so with unprecedented help from the CIA in a partnership that has blurred the bright line between foreign and domestic spying.
Neither the city council, which finances the department, nor the federal government, which contributes hundreds of millions of dollars each year, is told exactly what's going on.
The department has dispatched teams of undercover officers, known as "rakers," into minority neighborhoods as part of a human mapping program, according to officials directly involved in the program. They've monitored daily life in bookstores, bars, cafes and nightclubs. Police have also used informants, known as "mosque crawlers," to monitor sermons, even when there's no evidence of wrongdoing. NYPD officials have scrutinized imams and gathered intelligence on cab drivers and food cart vendors, jobs often done by Muslims.
Many of these operations were built with help from the CIA, which is prohibited from spying on Americans but was instrumental in transforming the NYPD's intelligence unit.
A veteran CIA officer, while still on the agency's payroll, was the architect of the NYPD's intelligence programs. The CIA trained a police detective at the Farm, the agency's spy school in Virginia, then returned him to New York, where he put his new espionage skills to work inside the United States.
And just last month, the CIA sent a senior officer to work as a clandestine operative inside police headquarters.
While the expansion of the NYPD's intelligence unit has been well known, many details about its clandestine operations, including the depth of its CIA ties, have not previously been reported."
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 24, 2011 10:53AM
NPR had a bit covering it this morning. They talked about "Mosque Crawlers".

[www.npr.org]

An excellent job by the AP. The implied discarding of what are normally referred to as civil liberties is disturbing. Any person who thinks " This is a prudent thing to do", should also ask themselves "What would I think if they were targeting an organization that I belonged to . My church ? My profession ? My neighborhood ? . Would I feel violated at being targeted ? "

Civil liberties in a time of declared war are a difficult line to tread. It can be reasonably claimed that, since we ARE in a state of War with Al Quaeda and the forces of Radical Islam, that people who associate with them are the same class as a long line of targeted populations throughout history during times of war.

America does need the information. Terrorist attacks do need to be stopped. But will the price of safety mean the loss of the freedom that is central to our very national identity ?
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: btfc
Date: August 24, 2011 11:10AM
"America does need the information. Terrorist attacks do need to be stopped. But will the price of safety mean the loss of the freedom that is central to our very national identity ?"

Exactly. Government agencies actively subverting the checks and balances put on them disturbs me.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: August West
Date: August 24, 2011 11:44AM
They hate us because of our freedom.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 24, 2011 12:42PM
Once again, reality trumps ideology. Irish neighborhoods have not produced suicide bombers and I am sure back in the day FBI did not send informants to mosques to get a lead on the Bonanno crime family. I am beginning to like Obama.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 24, 2011 01:00PM
Dakota-
May I refer you to the use of an FBI "roving Bug" which spied on Irish Mob members at church ?

[books.google.com]
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: swampy
Date: August 24, 2011 01:00PM
I just love the way the ideologues talk about how "our" freedoms and civil liberties are being taken away. The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

Please let us all know when you have had your phone(s) tapped or email intercepted by the Feds.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: August 24, 2011 01:54PM
Quote
swampy
Please let us all know when you have had your phone(s) tapped or email intercepted by the Feds.

Do they send you a text message or something to let you know?


"If you're innocent, you have nothing to fear!"

It's funny how swampy totally trusts the government in this aspect.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 24, 2011 02:01PM
Quote
cbelt3
Dakota-
May I refer you to the use of an FBI "roving Bug" which spied on Irish Mob members at church ?

Yes, I know. You are making my point. Irish are Catholics. If they really wanted to be PC they would plant a roving bug at the local mosque to show they don't discriminate.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 24, 2011 02:03PM
Quote
swampy
I just love the way the ideologues talk about how "our" freedoms and civil liberties are being taken away. The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

Please let us all know when you have had your phone(s) tapped or email intercepted by the Feds.

Have you ever made an international phone call into the US from another country ?
Your call WAS recorded.

Have you ever made a phone call from a federal building or military base ?
Your call WAS recorded.

Your assumptions are incorrect. The loss of civil rights, privacy, etc. are very real, and have been for years. While admittedly Thomas Edison's panicked call to Watson was not overheard by the Pinkerton agency, I can also guarantee that telegraph signals were regularly recorded and analyzed. The only way to ensure truly private communication is to have your conversation in the middle of the ocean, while naked.

Aside: Some of my previous engineering experience was in Signals Intelligence equipment and systems. I know whereof I speak. I used to paraphrase my international phone calls with "And to the wonderful people from the NSA who are listening to this call, I think you are awesome ! Thanks !"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2011 02:04PM by cbelt3.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 24, 2011 02:09PM
I had my phone tapped back in the day. We moved into an apartment that one of our friends gave up, and he was a member of Jonah House, but it took them over six months to figure out that he was out of the picture. Back then you could hear the tick tick tick as you talked.



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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: August 24, 2011 02:09PM
I'm sure I'm on some kind of watch list. I used to drive by an AFB all of the time where I used to live. Whenever I would get within close proximity, if I was on the phone with a friend I'd always joke (although I figured there was a good chance it was true) that he should be careful what he said as I figured there was a good chance they were listening.

The "if you have nothing to hide or aren't doing anything wrong, then..." crowd kill me sometimes. It's similar to the "If you find yourself in court, you must be guilty" suggestion. It's scary that they don't care about this stuff or believe the government would ever do anything wrong.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: August West
Date: August 24, 2011 02:33PM
Swampy's concept of liberty is strange, it does not adhere to conservative principles.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Ted King
Date: August 24, 2011 02:36PM
Quote
swampy
I just love the way the ideologues talk about how "our" freedoms and civil liberties are being taken away. The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

So if the Feds are trying to track down people who are buying guns in the U.S. and selling them in Mexico, gun owners who aren't doing those kinds of things shouldn't have any fears about the Feds combing through the data they can get from gun groups - data obtained in the same way as described in the OP that was used on Muslim groups?
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 24, 2011 03:12PM
Quote

The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

"Only criminals should fear a police state.' Horseshit.

Quote

While admittedly Thomas Edison's panicked call to Watson was not overheard by the Pinkerton agency,

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: billb
Date: August 24, 2011 03:30PM
Quote
p8712
Quote

The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

"Only criminals should fear a police state.' Horseshit.

Quote

While admittedly Thomas Edison's panicked call to Watson was not overheard by the Pinkerton agency,

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone.
First full patent.
There were numerous patent applications by phone inventors all around the same time.
Meucci and Gray were two of many, including Bell.



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The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 24, 2011 03:34PM
Quote
billb
Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone.
First full patent.
There were numerous patent applications by phone inventors all around the same time.
Meucci and Gray were two of many, including Bell.

Neither of whom placed that fateful call to Watson. Bell did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2011 03:34PM by p8712.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 24, 2011 03:40PM
Quote
swampy
I just love the way the ideologues talk about how "our" freedoms and civil liberties are being taken away. The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

Please let us all know when you have had your phone(s) tapped or email intercepted by the Feds.

Wow!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2011 03:45PM by Dennis S.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 24, 2011 03:47PM
Quote
Ted King
[Feds combing through the data they can get from gun groups - data obtained in the same way as described in the OP that was used on Muslim groups?

Who are these "gun groups" and what data do they have on gun owners? There is NO similarity between the two.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: $tevie
Date: August 24, 2011 03:56PM
Quote
p8712
Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone.

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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Black
Date: August 24, 2011 04:28PM
Quote
p8712
Quote

The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

"Only criminals should fear a police state.' Horseshit.

Quote

While admittedly Thomas Edison's panicked call to Watson was not overheard by the Pinkerton agency,

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone.

*swoon*




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 24, 2011 05:04PM
yeah.. senior moment on my part.

I blame the signals the Democratic Party is beaming into my brain from their bunker in Berkeley !
big grin smiley
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Spock
Date: August 24, 2011 05:10PM
Quote
swampy
The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.


Quote

“If you’ve nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about, have you?”

Peter Innocent loved his mum, in fact he was very proud of her, as she was a Regional Scrabble Champion. One Christmas he bought her a new Scrabble set and so delighted was he, that of the 47 games which they played during Christmas, he won 3 of them. He was still bragging about this, when in January he rang his bank.

“Did you have a good Christmas?” asked the nameless, faceless, minimum wage, bank employee; whose only interest in Peter, was that she was following her orders, to “ask personal questions, glean and record all personal data”. “Great,” he replied. “I beat my mother 3 times, at Scrabble.” And just as the nameless, faceless, minimum wage, bank employee was about to type the words “at Scrabble”; the system went down or the phone line cut off or she got an itch on her nose; for what ever reason, she did not type the words “at Scrabble”.

Five years later, Peter was at his mum’s house when she accidentally fell down the stairs. Luckily, she didn’t appear to be injured; just small cuts which Peter dressed and then, being a stoic lady of the “old school”, she wouldn’t hear of Peter calling out the Doctor. Unfortunately, 3 days later, when she was covered in bruises, she died.

Of course, when the police gained access to Peter’s bank records, revealing how he openly bragged about beating his mother; it was considered tangible “proof” of Peter’s habitual and unconscionable, mother beating sessions. After all, why would a now, “long gone”, nameless, faceless, minimum wage, bank employee lie?

News Paper Headlines Read;

“Vigilant Bank Staff, Help to Jail, a Vicious “Mother Beater”.
Without the good work of the bank and its detailed record keeping,
this crime would have gone undetected.

“If you’ve nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about, have you?”

The law of unintended consequences.



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Date: August 24, 2011 05:38PM
Quote
p8712
Quote

The only ones who have to fear this kind of private intrusion are those who would kill us.

"Only criminals should fear a police state.' Horseshit.

Ah, Martin Niemöller - I'll bet you're laughing about this somewhere right now, aren't you?
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: john dough
Date: August 24, 2011 06:06PM
I am sure if Swamp was a minority, she would feel the same way about police and intrusion in her life and having nothing to hide.



































Yeah, right.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Acer
Date: August 24, 2011 06:09PM
Next: Operatives in black churches to make certain politics are not pronounced from the pulpit, voiding the church's tax exempt status. That, by the way, is a common complaint on conservative talk radio, that certain "ministers" use the protection of the pulpit to encourage dangerous political views *cough" Rev Wright *cough*.

Or, shoe on the other foot, operatives in fundamentalist churches make certain politics are not pronounced from the pulpit...
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: btfc
Date: August 24, 2011 06:18PM
A local LDS church advises its members who to vote for during services, according to a number of reliable sources.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Black
Date: August 24, 2011 06:54PM
Quote
cbelt3
yeah.. senior moment on my part.

I blame the signals the Democratic Party is beaming into my brain from their bunker in Berkeley !
big grin smiley

Thanks. I thought it was odd that you didn't claim that Thomas Edison actually called you.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: swampy
Date: August 24, 2011 07:13PM
I guess you guys never played cowboys and Indians when you were kids because you don't seem to understand the concept of good guys and bad guys. ooops... I guess that was a politically incorrect way to phrase it. Nothing wrong with Indians. it was just a game, but the good guys vs bad guys philosophy still holds true.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Date: August 24, 2011 07:34PM
Quote
swampy
I guess you guys never played cowboys and Indians when you were kids because you don't seem to understand the concept of good guys and bad guys. ooops... I guess that was a politically incorrect way to phrase it. Nothing wrong with Indians. it was just a game, but the good guys vs bad guys philosophy still holds true.

Nothing quite like a strictly polarized two-dimensional worldview - informed by an oversimplified childhood impression of cultural clashes - joined together to create a paranoid, self-righteous and sanctimonious adult full of moral certitude.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 24, 2011 07:41PM
Another sermon from a white guy living in a lily white neighborhood with the nearest black miles away. Get off your high horse, 241.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Date: August 24, 2011 08:01PM
You obviously know NOTHING about me. Zilch. Zip. Nada. You prove this fact every time you post one of your playground ripostes.

I'll get off my high horse as soon as you stop following it around playing amateur veterinary proctologist.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: August West
Date: August 24, 2011 09:11PM
swampy is a bad guy, she hates freedom.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 24, 2011 09:19PM
Quote
seeing.the.unseeable
You obviously know NOTHING about me.

I know enough.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Date: August 25, 2011 12:57AM
Quote
Dakota
Quote
seeing.the.unseeable
You obviously know NOTHING about me.

I know enough.

Normally, I wouldn't quote you - it seems to give you the illusion that someone somewhere cares that you exist - but this has to be your unintentally ironic personal best.

The day you "know enough" - about anything - is not a day any of us will live to see.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 25, 2011 01:23AM
Quote
swampy
I guess you guys never played cowboys and Indians when you were kids because you don't seem to understand the concept of good guys and bad guys. ooops... I guess that was a politically incorrect way to phrase it. Nothing wrong with Indians. it was just a game, but the good guys vs bad guys philosophy still holds true.

100% of Muslims are bad guys? You are disgusting.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: August 25, 2011 04:46AM
Quote
swampy
I guess you guys never played cowboys and Indians when you were kids because you don't seem to understand the concept of good guys and bad guys.

I see swampy is a fan of manifest destiny. I guess since all the terrists are brown people, they are easy to spot. The government knows that the good white folk don't need to be surveilled.

Swampy knows when to cross to the other side of the street.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 25, 2011 08:02AM
Quote
seeing.the.unseeable
Quote
Dakota
Quote
seeing.the.unseeable
You obviously know NOTHING about me.

I know enough.

Normally, I wouldn't quote you - it seems to give you the illusion that someone somewhere cares that you exist - but this has to be your unintentally ironic personal best.

The day you "know enough" - about anything - is not a day any of us will live to see.

Is it still "unseeable" to her? This might help,

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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Date: August 25, 2011 08:53AM
Dude, teeny weenie jokes? Really? That's all you've got left?

Innuendo is the LCD of humor. You lost a long time ago, but this is sad, even for your limited ESL understanding of 'how to be funny' in English.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 25, 2011 09:21AM
Another disappointment! I suggest you warn them first,

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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: haikuman
Date: August 25, 2011 10:08AM
It is a diry job but somebody has to do it *(:>* devil smiley



“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
Steve Jobs

"There are only two mantras yum and yuk mine is yum "
Bernard Mickey Wrangle<>Tom Robbins<> "Still Life With Woodpecker"

"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
G.D. Kittredge III

"


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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 25, 2011 12:19PM
. Shakeman ? .. confused smiley
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Date: August 25, 2011 12:40PM
Quote
cbelt3
. Shakeman ? .. confused smiley

After noting Dakota apparent prurient preoccupation with my secondary sexual characteristics, perhaps "strokeman" might be more apropos?
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: swampy
Date: August 25, 2011 05:32PM
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
swampy
I guess you guys never played cowboys and Indians when you were kids because you don't seem to understand the concept of good guys and bad guys. ooops... I guess that was a politically incorrect way to phrase it. Nothing wrong with Indians. it was just a game, but the good guys vs bad guys philosophy still holds true.

100% of Muslims are bad guys? You are disgusting.

Dennis, when will you learn to read? I said nothing about Muslims. I said good guys and bad guys. Obviously you don't understand the concept.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: August West
Date: August 25, 2011 05:49PM
Quote
swampy
Obviously you don't understand the concept.

Perhaps you could clarify your concept and let everyone know how it applies to the OP?
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Black
Date: August 25, 2011 06:27PM
Quote
August West
Quote
swampy
Obviously you don't understand the concept.

Perhaps you could clarify your concept and let everyone know how it applies to the OP?

New here?
Swampy's reality goes like this:
100% of Muslim males are terrorists.
Muslim females are all victims of muslim males.
So, at best I don't think she would claim that more than 50% of Muslims are terrorists (or whatever percentage is male.)




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 25, 2011 06:59PM
Be it as it may, FBI did not send undercover agents to local mosques to get a lead on Paul "Big Paul" Castellano. Do you know why?



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: haikuman
Date: August 26, 2011 07:44AM
Quote
August West
Quote
swampy
Obviously you don't understand the concept.

Perhaps you could clarify your concept and let everyone know how it applies to the OP?

Or on the other hand you could just clarify your own pearls of wisdom August..lay it down and spit it out...
Your version of reality from your perfect blogs and sources... look inside your own self try and be honest.
Put a little foundation into your sniping tongue sticking out smileygrinning smiley devil smiley



“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
Steve Jobs

"There are only two mantras yum and yuk mine is yum "
Bernard Mickey Wrangle<>Tom Robbins<> "Still Life With Woodpecker"

"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
G.D. Kittredge III

"


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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: August West
Date: August 26, 2011 11:41AM
Quote

Put a little foundation into your sniping

In the US, there is a Constitution. Little things like unreasonable search, due process, the protection of individual rights, freedom of religion, etc.

You have made it clear in your postings that you believe that Muslims do not share these rights. I don't agree with your view and believe it is short-sighted and dangerous at the very least.
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Re: With CIA help, NYPD moves covertly in Muslim areas
Posted by: haikuman
Date: August 28, 2011 08:42AM
Quote
August West
Quote

Put a little foundation into your sniping

In the US, there is a Constitution. Little things like unreasonable search, due process, the protection of individual rights, freedom of religion, etc.

You have made it clear in your postings that you believe that Muslims do not share these rights. I don't agree with your view and believe it is short-sighted and dangerous at the very least.

Perhaps some Muslims have bad intentions leading to suspicion and distrust...
Some work quietly until they are ready and able to unleash those bad intensions.

[in.reuters.com]

[www.nytimes.com]



“Stay Hungry Stay Foolish"
Steve Jobs

"There are only two mantras yum and yuk mine is yum "
Bernard Mickey Wrangle<>Tom Robbins<> "Still Life With Woodpecker"

"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
G.D. Kittredge III

"


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