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Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 20, 2011 01:57PM


While it's true that other areas of the U.S. economy have grown faster than manufacturing (e.g., the finance sector especially, unfortunately), the U.S. is still the world leader in manufacturing. That's not to say that we shouldn't be working hard to increase manufacturing even more, but it does show that those who bemoan the lack of American manufacturing prowess are probably overstating the case.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 20, 2011 02:03PM
The converse of that is the drop in manufacturing employment, which is the elephant in the room. Of course the significant increase in productivity is the cause.

An interesting collection of graphs here...
[www.ourfuture.org]
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: billb
Date: September 20, 2011 02:06PM
It's 2011 now.


Crown was relinquished in May of 2011 according to FT who used that same graph for 2009 stats.


The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Go To Top
Date: September 20, 2011 02:07PM
The largest manufacturer in UK is TATA of India.


A man who is of "sound mind" is one who keeps the inner madman under lock and key.
(Paul Valery)
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 20, 2011 02:16PM
Quote
billb
It's 2011 now.


Crown was relinquished in May of 2011 according to FT who used that same graph for 2009 stats.

[www.ihsglobalinsight.com]

Quote

China's manufacturing sector has been growing so quickly in recent years that the size of its output is set to exceed output in the U.S. manufacturing sector in the foreseeable future. Nevertheless, the exact time frame for this change in ranking depends on how we measure the size of output.

Indeed, when sales revenues (gross output) that are earned by the manufacturing sector are used to measure the size of output, China will grow to outrank the United States as early as 2008. If, however, the value added of the manufacturing sector is used to measure relative size, China will not outrank the United States until 2013. Furthermore, when output is measured using real (inflation-adjusted) "1997 U.S. dollars," then the manufacturing value added in China will not exceed that of the United States until after 2020.

An obvious follow-up question is whether the prospect of China’s ascension in manufacturing is a cause for concern. Will the rapid rise in China’s manufacturing sector stifle the U.S. economy? A closer analysis suggests that such anxiety is probably unfounded.

So, I guess it depends on how you look at it. smiling smiley
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Spock
Date: September 20, 2011 02:23PM
Quote
Go To Top
The largest manufacturer in UK is TATA of India.

Don't they own Jaguar and Land Rover.


Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 20, 2011 02:29PM
Quote
Ted King

why would you include mining and utilities as part of mfg?

why not include gambling? its like a utility, right?


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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 20, 2011 02:46PM
Quote
cbelt3
The converse of that is the drop in manufacturing employment, which is the elephant in the room. Of course the significant increase in productivity is the cause.

An interesting collection of graphs here...
[www.ourfuture.org]

Yep, less employment in manufacturing due to greater productivity per hour of labor is a significant problem. But I would say the wider problem is that the extra wealth produced by increases in productivity is being concentrated in relatively few hands.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 20, 2011 02:57PM
Quote
mattkime

why would you include mining and utilities as part of mfg?

I don't know why it is included, but unless there is some reason to think that there would be significantly less or more utilities in one country or another it doesn't seem that the inclusion of utilities affects the implications from the data much.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Dakota
Date: September 20, 2011 04:38PM
So it was all a lie?


After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 20, 2011 05:21PM
Yes. It's all a lie. You can be happy now. confused smiley
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: $tevie
Date: September 20, 2011 05:34PM
For reasons that someone other than me might be able to explain, "industry" is considered to be mining, manufacturing, and utilities. Google those 3 words and you will see what a common use is it.


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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Grace62
Date: September 20, 2011 05:46PM
Not to be just about bad news..but...economic productivity in the US is declining. It's potentially a big problem, possibly a harbinger of a second recession.

[www.nytimes.com]

[www.bls.gov]
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 20, 2011 09:26PM
Quote
Grace62
Not to be just about bad news..but...economic productivity in the US is declining. It's potentially a big problem, possibly a harbinger of a second recession.

[www.nytimes.com]

Yep. This is from the Times article:

Quote

In other words, the next wave of major innovation will probably rely on the world’s current scientific leaders, many of whom are based in the United States. Recently, though, Americans have not been getting the job done, and it’s starting to sink in that the real story is the truth on the ground — not the published numbers.

All the more reason to take advantage of the ridiculously low interest rates the government can get to invest in those things that are likely to lead to technical innovation and improved infrastructure for increased productivity in the future. We would get people to work now and reap multiple rewards later - with extremely small interest costs. Even though there seems to be a tendency not to think so, it's not a zero sum situation (where somebody has to lose for someone else to win).
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Dakota
Date: September 21, 2011 03:18AM
What government "investment" led to the Iphone and iPad? Why are your protecting the trillions stashed away by corporations and risk tax dollars?


After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 21, 2011 10:40AM
Ted's point on an investment in the future is bang on. Investment in the future for a nation involves what ?

1-Education. Yes. That's right. The #1 investment is in our children.
2- Research. Using that education to create new ideas and theories.
3- Infrastructure. Enabling the movement of goods, people, and information throughout this great nation.
4- Resources. Enabling use of resources that growth needs. Yes, drilling and mining are parts of it. So does attempts to access extra-planetary resources. Asteroid mining, anyone ?

Companies can help, and sometimes take a leadership position. But usually not when there's an outrageous amount of risk. (Think moon programs, etc..)
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: September 21, 2011 04:14PM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
cbelt3
The converse of that is the drop in manufacturing employment, which is the elephant in the room. Of course the significant increase in productivity is the cause.

An interesting collection of graphs here...
[www.ourfuture.org]

Yep, less employment in manufacturing due to greater productivity per hour of labor is a significant problem. But I would say the wider problem is that the extra wealth produced by increases in productivity is being concentrated in relatively few hands.

It seems to me this is a reflection of a relatively few industries that produce very high-dollar goods, such as aircraft (Boeing, GE, Pratt & Whitney), heavy equipment (Caterpillar, Deere) and so forth. But not consumer goods. That's where a lot of manufacturing jobs went.

Things that are not manufactured in the US, or are on the decline:
Small and large appliances
Consumer electronics
Tools (see: Harbor Freight)
Hardware
Furniture
Shoes
Clothing
School supplies
Office supplies
Tableware, kitchen utensils
Lighting
Clocks & watches
Glassware
Toys
Commercial vehicles

The list goes on.


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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 21, 2011 05:00PM
Quote
Dakota
What government "investment" led to the Iphone and iPad? Why are your protecting the trillions stashed away by corporations and risk tax dollars?

I think there are a few of these in the iPad.

Oh, and DARPA invented the i part of the iPad.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Dakota
Date: September 21, 2011 06:19PM
To say DARPA invented the internet is like saying indians invented wireless telephones.


After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 21, 2011 06:39PM
Quote
Uncle Wig
Quote
Ted King
Quote
cbelt3
The converse of that is the drop in manufacturing employment, which is the elephant in the room. Of course the significant increase in productivity is the cause.

An interesting collection of graphs here...
[www.ourfuture.org]

Yep, less employment in manufacturing due to greater productivity per hour of labor is a significant problem. But I would say the wider problem is that the extra wealth produced by increases in productivity is being concentrated in relatively few hands.

It seems to me this is a reflection of a relatively few industries that produce very high-dollar goods, such as aircraft (Boeing, GE, Pratt & Whitney), heavy equipment (Caterpillar, Deere) and so forth. But not consumer goods. That's where a lot of manufacturing jobs went.

Yes, it seems that more of the high value added manufacturers have survived than others - but I'm not sure how you intend that to connect to the notion that the extra wealth produced by increases in productivity is being concentrated in relatively few hands.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 21, 2011 06:49PM
Quote
Dakota
To say DARPA invented the internet is like saying indians invented wireless telephones.

Yeah, I shafted Al Gore. Whoops.
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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: September 21, 2011 07:02PM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Uncle Wig
Quote
Ted King
Quote
cbelt3
The converse of that is the drop in manufacturing employment, which is the elephant in the room. Of course the significant increase in productivity is the cause.

An interesting collection of graphs here...
[www.ourfuture.org]

Yep, less employment in manufacturing due to greater productivity per hour of labor is a significant problem. But I would say the wider problem is that the extra wealth produced by increases in productivity is being concentrated in relatively few hands.

It seems to me this is a reflection of a relatively few industries that produce very high-dollar goods, such as aircraft (Boeing, GE, Pratt & Whitney), heavy equipment (Caterpillar, Deere) and so forth. But not consumer goods. That's where a lot of manufacturing jobs went.

Yes, it seems that more of the high value added manufacturers have survived than others - but I'm not sure how you intend that to connect to the notion that the extra wealth produced by increases in productivity is being concentrated in relatively few hands.

I'm not sure either! confused smiley I should have been quoting your original post. I'm just sayin': I think if we made more of these everyday items, more Americans would have jobs.


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Re: Graph of the day: U.S. still the manufacturing leader in the world
Posted by: modelamac
Date: September 24, 2011 04:36PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
Ted King

why would you include mining and utilities as part of mfg?

why not include gambling? its like a utility, right?

Gambling does not produce a product you can package and ship. I may be wrong.

I'm pretty sure that graph does not include service industries as well (hospitals?).

I do wonder if TV shows/movies are counted as manufactured products.

Another question I have re that graph is what monetary standard is used for China's output. China's money does not "float" on the world market, as does most other currency. It is controlled by the Party. Only recently have they begun to loosen the strings.


Ed (modelamac)

I think I will just put an OUT OF ORDER
sticker on my head and call it a day.
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