Poll

Will you pay $60/year to use a debit card for purchases?

This poll has expired. Voting is no longer possible.
48 votes were received.

Sure, it's a fair price for a good convenience	2		4%
No, I'll start writing checks again, or use a credit card	29		60%
I don't use a debit card	17		35%

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Bank of America has announced that early next year they will begin charging debit card customers who use the card for purchases $5/month. No additional fee for cash withdrawals.
Other banks will follow the leader!

I'd pay a reasonable fee, say $20 a year. But $60 a year?

I don't know if others following the lead is a sure thing. Citibank started charging new annual fees on a bunch of credit cards a couple years back. I promptly cancelled my account, and I assume others did as well. None of my other card issuers have added annual fees, even though that was the prediction at the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 02:17PM by Acer.

Not just no. Hell no. No fee at all. Why pay a fee for using your OWN money? Ridiculous. They make money on every transaction, plus the money they make off my money in their coffers. B of @#$%& is more accurate.

While interest rates are held so low, banks don't make much money on the 'float' or on loans. So they're not interested in making loans, just chalking up the fees.

One bank regularly charges me for the 'privilege' of using a debit card transaction. So I use it as a credit card. Therefore they get their money from the merchant. Another bank has fee free debit transactions. So I'll use it as a merchant-based ATM if I need cash, otherwise I stick the merchant with the fee.

What's missing in the whole calculus is the effect all this has on the merchants, who happily pass along the cost of credit card usage fees to us, the customers.

In retrospect, $60 is *reasonable* if the alternative is that the bank does what RBS does now, and charge a $1 per transaction debit card usage fee.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 02:24PM by cbelt3.

Wow, $1 per purchase transaction? (we're not talking about cash withdrawals.) That's rough. I'd be paying $20 a month at least if my bank did that.

The reasons banks are doing this is because due to the credit card laws passed in '09 they are now limited in what they can charge merchants who accept debit cards. So they are passing it along to the customer instead.

I really like the convenience of using the debit card for purchases, so if my bank starts this fee I'll pay it. What's more likely to happen is that regular, long time customers with at least moderately healthy balances won't pay the fee. It'll be yet another surcharge on being poor.

I do not use debit cards. Never have, and do not plan to ever start.

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Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

I just realized.. if we all start carrying cash again, all those cashiers will actually have to learn math. Someone call the schools !

I have never used my BoA card as a debit card to make a purchase. Ever.
I used my Citizens Bank credit and debit card as a debit card <<once>> to make a purchase and it cost me 30 cents. The loss of that 30 cents still haunts me. It was a bright sunny Summer Monday afternoon, approximately 1:30 PM, First week of August, 2005.
$60.00 ? I don't think so.

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The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
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It took me a long time to understand what debit cards were. Am I wrong in assuming that they are primarily used by people who can't get a credit card? My credit card company likely detests me as I always pay my monthly bill. They tell me I don't have to, and have raised my credit limit to $35,000, but I haven't bit yet.

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Pops
It took me a long time to understand what debit cards were. Am I wrong in assuming that they are primarily used by people who can't get a credit card?

Yes, you are wrong.

It's not going to matter when we all get sucked in to using our smart phones to make purchases in store. Then once the chips are implanted soon after, we'll be on to that. Finally the retina scan or fingerprint payment method before we just start "thinking" about making payments. It'll be a fun ride.

Hmmm. The only place I regularly use my debit card is Aldi; they only take debit or cash. As banks move to this I wonder if Aldi will change their business model. I may have to move all mybanking to a credit union. What a hassle given how entrenched I am with BOA bill pay.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 03:02PM by graylocks.

"Starting Oct. 1, a regulation will cap the fees that banks can collect from merchants whenever customers swipe their debit cards. Those fees generated $19 billion in revenue for banks in 2009, according to the Nilson Report, which tracks the payments industry.

There is no similar cap on the fees that banks can collect from merchants when customers use their credit cards, however. That means banks may increasingly encourage customers to reach for their credit cards, reversing a trend toward debit card usage in the past several years.

An increasing reliance on credit cards would be particularly beneficial for Bank of America, which is a major credit card issuer, notes Bart Narter, a banking analyst with Celent, a consulting firm.

"It's become a more profitable business, at least in relation to debit cards," Narter said.

This summer, an Associated Press-GfK poll found that two-thirds of consumers use debit cards more frequently than credit cards. But when asked how they would react if they were charged a $3 monthly debit card fee, 61 percent said they'd find another way to pay."
[www.ajc.com]

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Grace62

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Pops
It took me a long time to understand what debit cards were. Am I wrong in assuming that they are primarily used by people who can't get a credit card?

Yes, you are wrong.

Illuminate my ignorance. I truly don't understand this, but I'd like to. There must be benefits of a debit card over a credit card?

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Pops

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Grace62

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Pops
It took me a long time to understand what debit cards were. Am I wrong in assuming that they are primarily used by people who can't get a credit card?

Yes, you are wrong.

Illuminate my ignorance. I truly don't understand this, but I'd like to. There must be benefits of a debit card over a credit card?

Nope, no advantage, except that most people who use a credit wind up paying interest on the purchase. I am like you and pay off my balance each month, and my cards pay me cash back to use them, so there is absolutely no advantage to use a debit card at all.

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Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

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Pops

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Grace62

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Pops
It took me a long time to understand what debit cards were. Am I wrong in assuming that they are primarily used by people who can't get a credit card?

Yes, you are wrong.

Illuminate my ignorance. I truly don't understand this, but I'd like to. There must be benefits of a debit card over a credit card?

The debit card is a check replacement. It's a no-expense (until now), paperless way to pay with funds from your checking account. My bank also pays cash rewards for debit card use, although I'm sure that's going to end now that they no longer collect such high fees from merchants. I find the debit card to be very convenient and I don't regularly use a credit card. As I noted above, a recent AP poll showed that 2/3rds of consumers use debit cards more than credit cards.
Banks will use fees to drive customers to the products that are most profitable for them - so now with changes in the law, the debit card has become less profitable, so they will push people back to credit cards, which are highly profitable for banks.

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rgG

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Pops

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Grace62

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Pops
It took me a long time to understand what debit cards were. Am I wrong in assuming that they are primarily used by people who can't get a credit card?

Yes, you are wrong.

Illuminate my ignorance. I truly don't understand this, but I'd like to. There must be benefits of a debit card over a credit card?

Nope, no advantage, except that most people who use a credit wind up paying interest on the purchase. I am like you and pay off my balance each month, and my cards pay me cash back to use them, so there is absolutely no advantage to use a debit card at all.

Of course there's an advantage... you don't have to carry around (as much) cash, as the charge comes straight out of your bank account, unlike a credit card where you have a monthly bill to pay.

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billb
The loss of that 30 cents still haunts me. It was a bright sunny Summer Monday afternoon, approximately 1:30 PM, First week of August, 2005.
$60.00 ? I don't think so.

It's all coming together now... billb is a swamp yankee!

I use my debit card instead of cash. It's got the same protection as a credit card (I speak from experience) and if someone robs me I can kill it and I'm none the worse for wear. It's convenience. But it's not worth paying that kind of money for.

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Doesn't it cost around $60 if you write a bunch of checks? They're not free. Six of one, half dozen of the other...

I guess I can understand the convenience, but I have the same from a credit card. I do suppose, if I were mugged or killed, somebody could get more out of my credit card than a debit card on my bank balance.

The idea of using a debit card RATHER than a credit card because one is fearful of abusing it and paying interest on balances one might not have WANTED to incur is a bit of a weak argument, IMO. I still may not be understanding this completely, but I do appreciate the dialogue.

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rgG

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Pops

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Grace62

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Pops
It took me a long time to understand what debit cards were. Am I wrong in assuming that they are primarily used by people who can't get a credit card?

Yes, you are wrong.

Illuminate my ignorance. I truly don't understand this, but I'd like to. There must be benefits of a debit card over a credit card?

Nope, no advantage, except that most people who use a credit wind up paying interest on the purchase. I am like you and pay off my balance each month, and my cards pay me cash back to use them, so there is absolutely no advantage to use a debit card at all.

I'm the same, use the credit card for everything, pay if off every month, get paid in cash back for doing it, and get a 30 day interest free loan too.

Looks like I need to get an AMEX card, Costco is the only place that I used my debit card since AMEX is the only credit card they take.

BTW: Why is this political?

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GGD


BTW: Why is this political?

It's not. I posted it on this side by mistake.

Another reason to go with a credit union.

I've started using a debit card more than I have in the past, mostly because it helps the merchant, as they don't have to pay a fee on the transaction. Merchants are starting to limit whether or not they take credit cards, as some CC companies are taking huge fees for the use of the cards. The rising fees to the merchant are to cover the cash back elements of your credit cards.

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cbelt3
I just realized.. if we all start carrying cash again, all those cashiers will actually have to learn math. Someone call the schools !

I love the look I get when my total is $x.82 and I give them $X.07. They usually have the register do the math!

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San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

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Rolando

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cbelt3
I just realized.. if we all start carrying cash again, all those cashiers will actually have to learn math. Someone call the schools !

I love the look I get when my total is $x.82 and I give them $X.07. They usually have the register do the math!

You've confirmed what I've always suspected as a barista-some people do that to be smug. What you don't realize is that many baristas/cashiers are expected to multitask. When I take money at the drive thru I'm also taking incoming orders, listening for the warming oven for the sandwich I've put in, checking to see if your drink is ready yet and running a myriad of other jobs that you aren't even aware of. Hell yeah i let the register figure the freaking change and it's annoying when I have to do otherwise as all those other processes I'm held accountable for get thrown.

I used to have your attitude. I've learned a bit if humility and patience from working behind a register.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

This is probably a good time to note that you can earn up to 4% on a checking account if you jump through a few small hoops--largely using a debit card 10 times per month. There's both national a local options. We've been doing this for several years and have had to change banks a couple of times to keep a high reward, but it's been very worthwhile.

[www.depositaccounts.com]|26|5000|false,false,true,true,true,true,false|GA|EstimatedEarnings desc

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graylocks

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Rolando

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cbelt3
I just realized.. if we all start carrying cash again, all those cashiers will actually have to learn math. Someone call the schools !

I love the look I get when my total is $x.82 and I give them $X.07. They usually have the register do the math!

You've confirmed what I've always suspected as a barista-some people do that to be smug. What you don't realize is that many baristas/cashiers are expected to multitask. When I take money at the drive thru I'm also taking incoming orders, listening for the warming oven for the sandwich I've put in, checking to see if your drink is ready yet and running a myriad of other jobs that you aren't even aware of. Hell yeah i let the register figure the freaking change and it's annoying when I have to do otherwise as all those other processes I'm held accountable for get thrown.

I used to have your attitude. I've learned a bit if humility and patience from working behind a register.

I do it because I don't like having a pocketful of change. I prefer a quarter to a dime, two nickels and five pennies, don't you? I worked as a cashier, later as a bank teller, so I understand your experience.

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San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

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Rolando

I do it because I don't like having a pocketful of change. I prefer a quarter to a dime, two nickels and five pennies, don't you? I worked as a cashier, later as a bank teller, so I understand your experience.

sure but i usually only bother if say the tab is $3.79 and i give the cashier $5.79 or even $5.09. easy math all round. i guess it was this sentence that had a smidgen of attitude:

I love the look I get when my total is $x.82 and I give them $X.07. They usually have the register do the math!

i've had the occasional customer who deliberately, or so it seems, hands me a bill for the tab and then after i've entered it into the register hands me coins so then i have to figure it in my head. and trust me, it's never for the easy sums i mentioned above. frankly, it's usually a dad with a young son next to him. after i've either handed the coins back to him with a 'sorry, i've already entered it into the register' or take more than a moment to figure it in my head and give the correct change back, he walks away with his arm over the lad's shoulder and i'm sure pontificates on the sorry state of education and how this is an example of why he needs to study hard in school. yeah, right.

sorry, as you can this is a sore point with me.

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"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

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SteveO
Not just no. Hell no. No fee at all. Why pay a fee for using your OWN money? Ridiculous. They make money on every transaction, plus the money they make off my money in their coffers. B of @#$%& is more accurate.

Was it so hard to tell them you are not going to this before handing over the cash?" Little people" were screwed once a gain.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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Grace62

The reasons banks are doing this is because due to the credit card laws passed in '09 they are now limited in what they can charge merchants who accept debit cards. So they are passing it along to the customer instead.

I am sure you are on record here opposing that legislation at the time, right? Didn't see that coming? This "explanation" sounds awfully familiar. Health insurance companies have to charge more because certain law that I escapes me now made them do things they were not doing before. All for consumer protection. Can you please stop protecting me?

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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graylocks

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Rolando

I do it because I don't like having a pocketful of change. I prefer a quarter to a dime, two nickels and five pennies, don't you? I worked as a cashier, later as a bank teller, so I understand your experience.

sure but i usually only bother if say the tab is $3.79 and i give the cashier $5.79 or even $5.09. easy math all round. i guess it was this sentence that had a smidgen of attitude:

I love the look I get when my total is $x.82 and I give them $X.07. They usually have the register do the math!

i've had the occasional customer who deliberately, or so it seems, hands me a bill for the tab and then after i've entered it into the register hands me coins so then i have to figure it in my head. and trust me, it's never for the easy sums i mentioned above. frankly, it's usually a dad with a young son next to him. after i've either handed the coins back to him with a 'sorry, i've already entered it into the register' or take more than a moment to figure it in my head and give the correct change back, he walks away with his arm over the lad's shoulder and i'm sure pontificates on the sorry state of education and how this is an example of why he needs to study hard in school. yeah, right.

sorry, as you can this is a sore point with me.

Sure, but don't forget to relish those times when some fool hands you $5.00 and an extra penny to pay for something that's $4.84. Not saying to call them out on it when their intentions were in the right place, but nobody ever talks about the sorry state of education in that scenario.

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cbelt3
While interest rates are held so low, banks don't make much money on the 'float' or on loans. So they're not interested in making loans, just chalking up the fees.

Not so.
Banks make money on the rate spread between what they pay at the Fed "discount window" and what they charge consumers*, so a low-interest rate environment technically doesn't matter to their bottom line, and is arguably better for them.

Low rates also [ostensibly] mean that there is relatively more borrowing overall, and they make boatloads off all that with fees and swaps and “carry trades” and other activity (the so-called “Velocity of Money”).


*It ain't really all that simple, but it's good enough for this discussion

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I am not Ryan Seacrest, and I do not approve this message.

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graylocks
What a hassle given how entrenched I am with BOA bill pay.

And you got me entrenched!!!


Kidding-- it's been a good thing-- although I did just transfer the bulk of my savings from BoA to my credit union.

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New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]

As I remember it, we were given "account access cards" to "automated teller machines" so the banks could lay off staff. It was couched as a convenience since the automated teller didn't need breaks and could work all night.

I soon noted that using your bank's card to access another bank's ATM was a costly way to obtains funds; I moved my banking to a local bank that had the most branches scattered through the county and avoided those fees.

When the electronic point of sale terminals could take debit cards as well as credit cards, I utilized the "cash back" sales transactions at my local food stores to avoid ATM fees for cash.

If my current "local" bank decides to charge a yearly fee for the debit card, I'll gladly write checks. I got my checking account so long ago, I'm either paying nothing for checking or maybe a dime a check. I usually have cash on hand and can carry a little more if needed.

I recommend using credit unions and local banks. My credit union has been outstanding as my credit card issuer and still likes me even if I pay off the card each month. My not-so-local-anymore bank still has the most ATMs in the county although they have been bought or merged so many times, I can not remember all of their name changes. Still, it has less bad securities debt (gulp, I hope) than the giant nationwide banks and so far, has not jerked me around with fees.

$60/year for access to my own money in a manner that saves BoA personnel costs would send me fleeing away from doing any business with them.

+1 for SteveO's comment.

$tevie, I remember an NPR segment about debit cards having some protections but less than credit cards. Can't remember the details at this moment.

Michael, thanks for the link to high yield checking accounts. I noticed that the top six currently are credit unions, I need to see what mine can do for me...

An aside: the nice folks at the bank branch I frequent have been robbed six or seven times in the last two years. I have heard some very interesting tales... They no longer have two entrances into the bank; they blocked off one entrance and usually have a security person working the other. Tough times...

=wr=

Hey, you progressives caused this. Durban, (D) tacked a little ammendment on to the Dodd/Franks bill to protect the consumers against banks tacking on these kinds of fees. You know the nanny state is just trying to take care of you. That bill will soon take effect so the banks are just getting their licks in before it does. Did you think they wouldn't?

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2011 03:06PM by swampy.

Dems have turned out to be bankers and insurers best friend. Both are raising rates on people and they are just watching them. Party of little people?

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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wave rider
$tevie, I remember an NPR segment about debit cards having some protections but less than credit cards. Can't remember the details at this moment.

Bank of America's VISA debit card has all the same protection as the VISA card. As I said, this is speaking from experience. My husband's card was stolen and he got every penny replaced in his account almost immediately after reporting the card stolen. Every charge put to the card's (quickly defunct) number was replaced.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2011 03:20PM by $tevie.

"Bank of America's VISA debit card has all the same protection as the VISA card. As I said, this is speaking from experience."

I think this is each bank's separate policy. I don't think it is an across-the-board law like with a credit card.

Well, since I had mentioned it in the context of why I was using BofA's debit card, I don't think "across the board" was ever implied.

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Dennis S
"Bank of America's VISA debit card has all the same protection as the VISA card. As I said, this is speaking from experience."

I think this is each bank's separate policy. I don't think it is an across-the-board law like with a credit card.

[www.pirg.org]

Look folks, I happen to be right about the BofA debit card. This is from EXPERIENCE. Ugly web sites will not change my mind.

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The difference between debit and credit cards is blurred. My BoA card says debit on it but can also be used as a credit card. Often, the machine decides which one.

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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$tevie
Look folks, I happen to be right about the BofA debit card. This is from EXPERIENCE. Ugly web sites will not change my mind.

You may be right about it now, but BoA can change their policies at any time they want. The rules for credit cards are codified in law, not like a particular bank's policies.

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$tevie

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wave rider
$tevie, I remember an NPR segment about debit cards having some protections but less than credit cards. Can't remember the details at this moment.

Bank of America's VISA debit card has all the same protection as the VISA card. As I said, this is speaking from experience. My husband's card was stolen and he got every penny replaced in his account almost immediately after reporting the card stolen. Every charge put to the card's (quickly defunct) number was replaced.

I think it had something to do with the way a debit card (the example was a restaurant purchase) can "put a hold" on some of the funds in your checking account which leads to overdraft charges on the unsuspecting. Credit cards just adds the amount to your monthly bill. I'll look for the article...

I'm glad to hear BoA took care of the theft issue with your husband's card, was not disputing that at all!

=wr=

edit >> It is called "blocking" according to this site:
[www.pirg.org]

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-- "Blocking" is also a problem with debit cards. Some firms (hotels, gas stations and rent-a-car companies) routinely block a card in advance for the estimated cost of a transaction that may not be completed for several days. It isn't a problem for most credit card customers, unless they are near their account limits. But if you buy ten dollars worth of gas with your debit card, you may not know that the station may routinely block all transactions for $50-75, then doesn't "un-block" as you drive away -- it waits until that evening, or worse, every few days to conduct a "batch" transaction. If you are close to your checking account limit -- much more common than being close to a credit card limit -- you could end up bouncing checks or be refused transactions by other merchants due to faulty blocks. Most banks do a poor job of informing consumers that they may bounce transactions due to overdrafts created by blocks. Of course, virtually no gas station explains their blocking policy, which presumes everyone drives an RV or tractor trailer truck, and is filling it up.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2011 06:09PM by wave rider.

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swampy
Hey, you progressives caused this. Durban, (D) tacked a little ammendment on to the Dodd/Franks bill to protect the consumers against banks tacking on these kinds of fees. You know the nanny state is just trying to take care of you. That bill will soon take effect so the banks are just getting their licks in before it does. Did you think they wouldn't?

So you like it the way it was - just bend over and let the banks @#$%& you at will?

Such legislation is a waste of time. Limiting fees here just means they increase there. In the end, whether it's the merchant passing along the extra cost of a transaction by raising his prices, or a bank raising its annual card fee to recoup the loss of another fee, the money all comes from the same place, my pocket.

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Dennis S

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swampy
Hey, you progressives caused this. Durban, (D) tacked a little ammendment on to the Dodd/Franks bill to protect the consumers against banks tacking on these kinds of fees. You know the nanny state is just trying to take care of you. That bill will soon take effect so the banks are just getting their licks in before it does. Did you think they wouldn't?

So you like it the way it was - just bend over and let the banks @#$%& you at will?

You are bending over NOW. Don't you feel anything?

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After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.

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Acer
Such legislation is a waste of time. Limiting fees here just means they increase there. In the end, whether it's the merchant passing along the extra cost of a transaction by raising his prices, or a bank raising its annual card fee to recoup the loss of another fee, the money all comes from the same place, my pocket.

It's not a waste of time, but that's the goal of this extremely clever marketing campaign by Bank of America. Honestly I've never seen bank fee increases of $5/month make national headlines in every paper. It's uncanny.

They hate regulation, for obvious reasons. It helps them more when fees can be secretive and buried in consumer prices, as has been the case for decades with credit cards and more recently also with debit cards. With the exception of Arco stations and a few other businesses, there are not separate pricing tiers based on payment method; everyone pays for the bank card fees that the merchant is being charged by the bank.
I'd rather see those fees up front, and pay them when I'm the one using the service, instead right now we pay for everyone else's use of credit and debit cards.

Many consumer benefits are found in the Dodd Frank bill, one is that banks have to let you set your debit card so that it won't automatically overdraw your account and charge you a $20-38 fee for every transaction in overdraft. Banks have made a bundle on that one. My kids have their checking accounts set up that way, so they can't overdraw. I asked them if they'd rather get a little embarrassed or end up paying $40 for a cup of coffee or slice of pizza, and they chose the possibility of embarrassment.

That's a relatively minor one, but as the crisis of '08 showed, we need more, not less, bank regulation. Banks are incredibly political, and they're playing us like a fiddle on this one.

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Dakota

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Dennis S

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swampy
Hey, you progressives caused this. Durban, (D) tacked a little ammendment on to the Dodd/Franks bill to protect the consumers against banks tacking on these kinds of fees. You know the nanny state is just trying to take care of you. That bill will soon take effect so the banks are just getting their licks in before it does. Did you think they wouldn't?

So you like it the way it was - just bend over and let the banks @#$%& you at will?

You are bending over NOW. Don't you feel anything?

I can't feel a thing. Maybe you should step aside and let someone else try.