"In short, when faced with a 3 a.m. test, he reacted immediately, rather than having the instinct to wait. And after he waited, he mistook this as a moment for partisanship rather than for at least the appearance of statesmanlike national unity. The irony, of course, is that resisting the partisan impulse today would have been the greatest possible boost to his horse-race prospects two months from now."

[www.theatlantic.com]

That's actually quite telling and informative, and the difference between a Candidate whose primary mission is to defeat an oppponent, and an Executive and a Stateswoman whose primary missions are to run the nation and represent the nation in the world.

However.....

If the roles were reversed, would we see the same reaction ?

That's the thought experiment that is more important. And you'll need to draw your own conclusions.

My opinion ?

No. You would not see the same reaction. I've found the President to be thoughtful and cautious, the way a President should be. Even when he was a candidate in 2008.

Ed... there HAVE been issues .. the 'beer summit' and so forth. But President Obama has been seasoned by the last four years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2012 02:31PM by cbelt3.

Quote

That's actually quite telling and informative, and the difference between a Candidate whose primary mission is to defeat an oppponent...

I'd say it is a fail even in that regard. While I'm generally abhorred by the political dialog of the last many years, I'm absolutely disgusted at the Romney campaign for trampling over the body of a courageous and respected diplomat when the US is being attacked abroad. Gall or sheer tone-deafness, I don't know, but clear evidence that this man should not be in the Presidential race. I wonder what the diplomatic corps thinks about his behavior.

A better question might be: Why has Obama attended less than half of his NSA briefings over the past year?

And where was Obama at 3:00 AM while the tweets coming out of the State Department (for 9 hours) were blaming Americans and American policies before he picks up on the theme.

More power to Romney for condemning attacks on our embassies, our rights to free speech, and standing strong in the defense of freedom.

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t

I'll take another frame of mind and point out that Romney is commenting as a private citizen and candidate. The 'rules' are different, and everyone knows that.

Remember this joke ?

Q: "What's flat, black, and glows 30 seconds after Reagan takes office ?"
A: Tehran

Reagan's anti-Iran rhetoric was blistering.

Quote
swampy
More power to Romney for condemning attacks on our embassies, our rights to free speech, and standing strong in the defense of freedom.

Yes, it's clear that Gov. Romney is a beacon defending controversial postions in a time of international crisis. The overwhelming need to have someone brave enough to step forward "condemning attacks on our embassies, our rights to free speech, and standing strong in the defense of freedom" at this time no doubt strengthens us abroad and highlights the mission of our brave diplomats. It's a darn shame the rest of the Republicans are too cowardly to make political hay while our diplomats are in peril abroad.

Quote
cbelt
Reagan's anti-Iran rhetoric was blistering.

Was that same rhetoric present in his deals to supply weapons to the Iranians in exchange for hostage release?

I'm sure that Obama missing those meetings DID cause the attack on the embassies!

I'm sure that Obama missing those meetings caused these attacks, too! It's the ONLY explanation!!

U.S. Embassy in Sana’a, Yemen, Sept. 17, 2008
Nineteen people died and 16 were injured after a group of militants, dressed as police officers and armed with rocket-propelled grenades, rifles and car bombs, stormed the U.S. Embassy in the Yemeni capital.
Islamic Jihad of Yemen, an affiliate of al-Qaeda, claimed responsibility.

Indian Embassy bombing in Kabul, Afghanistan, July 7, 2008
Fifty-eight people were killed when a suicide bomber drove his explosives-laden vehicle up to the Indian Embassy and detonated. Most of the victims were locals, although two senior Indian officials were among the dead.
It is thought that the impetus for the attack was India’s support of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Afghanistan and India’s recognition of Hamid Karzai’s national government. The Taliban, however, denied responsibility for the attack.

Danish Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan, June 2, 2008
A massive car bomb near the Danish Embassy in Islamabad killed six people and injured dozens more.
Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for the bombing, citing anger over cartoons published in September 2005 by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten that depicted the Prophet Muhammad. The cartoons had been reprinted in Danish papers in February 2008.
Pakistan had been the site of several large-scale protests against the cartoons. Al-Qaeda deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri called for revenge attacks on Danish targets.

U.S. Embassy in Belgrade, Serbia, Feb. 21, 2008
Several hundred demonstrators attacked the U.S. Embassy compound in the Serbian capital of Belgrade. Hours later, a charred body was found inside a torched office at the embassy.
The swarm of rioters had broken away from a massive rally held earlier in the day to protest against Washington's recognition of Kosovo's declaration of independence.
Crowds of masked young men broke into the compound and used metal bars to smash into the first floor of the building. A few demonstrators climbed the building and set the U.S. flag on fire as others used a door to ram the metal-barred windows.

U.S. Embassy in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, Dec. 6, 2004
Five consular employees were killed and four other local staff members were injured after militants stormed the U.S. consulate. Saudi police killed four of the assailants, who were members of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP).
In an internet post claiming responsibility for the attack, AQAP wrote, “this operation comes as part of several operations that are organized and planned by al-Qaeda as part of the battle against the crusaders and the Jews, as well as part of the plan to force the unbelievers to leave the Arabian Peninsula.”

U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Aug. 7, 1998
In a co-ordinated operation, car bombs exploded outside the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, on Aug. 7, 1998. The attacks killed 224 people, including 12 Americans. About 5,000 were injured.
Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, the leader of al-Qaeda in East Africa, had a $5 million US bounty on his head for allegedly planning the attacks. In June 2011, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton publicly confirmed his death in Somalia.

Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina, March 17, 1992
A suicide bomber driving a pickup truck filled with explosives breached the Israeli Embassy in downtown Buenos Aires and detonated, killing 29 people — mainly children in a nearby school building — and injuring 242.
The group Islamic Jihad took responsibility, claiming the attack was payback for Israel's assassination of Hezbollah official Abbas al-Musawi the month before.
Messages intercepted by the U.S. National Security Agency revealed that Iran had knowledge the attack was coming.

U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, Apr. 18, 1983
A Hezbollah suicide bomber drove a van up to the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, killing 63 people, including at least 17 Americans. The act also destroyed the Middle East bureau of the CIA.
That same year, an attack on the Beirut headquarters of American and French forces killed 298 people. The United States withdrew all diplomats from Beirut in September 1989 and did not reopen its embassy until 1991.

U.S. Embassy in Tehran, Iran, Nov. 4, 1979
Islamic students and other militants stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, taking hostages and launching a diplomatic crisis. They were demanding extradition of the Shah of Iran from the United States, where he had gone to seek medical treatment.
Fifty-two hostages were held for 444 days. A failed rescue attempt resulted in the deaths of eight U.S. soldiers. Thirteen hostages were released about two weeks after the crisis began, and another was freed months later.
After the signing of the Algiers Accord on Jan. 21, 1981, the day of Ronald Reagan's inauguration as U.S. president, the remaining hostages were released.

[www.cbc.ca]

Romney's response was in very poor form. Period. He is a candidate. Not the president. When an attack occurs on us, even on foreign soil, you do not jump in and start criticizing the response of the sitting president and in effect, this country. He did not wait for details. He obviously did not even understand the movie was the subject of the sympathy comment. As a candidate you stand down. He could have easily held off until this afternoon to release a statement.

Condemning attacks on our embassies, our rights to free speech, and standing strong in the defense of freedom is motherhood. Every candidate will spout motherhood. Someone with real credentials would not jeopardize this country's response with quick draw statements for political gain. Ultimately this will and should hurt him.

Why did Obama miss NSA briefings? How do you know he did? Briefings can occur anywhere and anytime. And do. Read your history. The White House is wherever the president is.

Where was he at 3am? Why did he wait so long? Gee, maybe because he's smart enough to wait until he has more information at his disposal as his response, as the sitting president of the United States, carries great weight and should not be doled out promiscuously. As Romney did.

$tevie how do you justify this administration's apology to terrorists who besiege our embassies and kill our citizens?

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t

Well, Romney is getting all kinds of bad press from all sorts of critics for his remarks. I am sure he wishes he'd kept his mouth shut.

Incidentally, tripping over your own feet in an effort to make hay from a tragedy IS very poor form. Also, disrepectful of the President. People notice these things.

---

It’s obvious Mitt Romney wants badly to change the tenor of the presidential race, in which he has struggled for months to find a way to push ahead of President Obama. It became clear just how badly the Republican presidential candidate will reach for a game-changing moment when late Tuesday, and again Wednesday, he effectively issued a full-throated defense of the Free Speech rights of that hate-mongering Florida pastor, Terry Jones.

Romney might not have mentioned Jones’ name but that was the gist of his statements, with the candidate — in a fanciful contortion of fact and logic — accusing President Obama of being more sympathetic with Muslim protesters than with the American diplomats they attacked in Cairo and Benghazi, Libya. The president had been, Romney declared, so “disgraceful” as to “apologize for American values.”

Romney reached this ungenerous conclusion by rendering himself ignorant of some important facts: The “apology” he referred to came from well down the diplomatic food chain; it was issued before the breaching of the embassy walls in Cairo, and it was not an apology but a call for an end to inflammatory discourse.

[www.latimes.com]

---

It’s not clear how well Romney would have understood the falsity of his claim. Perhaps he was confused about the timeline or the authorship, making his statement merely a single lie rather than a double or triple lie. In any case, Romney’s abhorrence of apologies required him to avoid steering his attack even slightly away from its original course. He insisted, “It’s never too early for the United States government to condemn attacks on Americans and to defend our values.”

Never too early? Not even before the attacks had occurred, which is when the statement in question was issued?


[nymag.com]

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After Cairo and Benghazi Attacks, Conservatives Resurrect Obama ‘Apology Tour’ Lie

After attacks on U.S. embassies in Egypt and Libya, conservatives are at a fever pitch over President Obama’s ‘apologizing for America.’ David Sessions on the history of the campaign’s biggest lie.

In the wake of an attack on the U.S. embassy in Benghazi, Libya, Tuesday that left an American envoy dead, conservatives are bringing back one of the most deeply dishonest narratives of the Obama administration: that the president apologizes for the United States.

[www.thedailybeast.com]

---

Quote
cbelt3
Reagan's anti-Iran rhetoric was blistering.

Yes, and Reagan was a lousy president, just as he was a lousy Governor of California. Next.

Fox Politicizes Violence In Egypt And Libya To Revive False Obama Apology Narrative

Fox News used the death of the U.S. ambassador and other Americans in Libya and the violence at the American embassy in Egypt to revive the long-debunked claim that President Obama apologizes for America.

[mediamatters.org]

---

Quote
swampy
A better question might be: Why has Obama attended less than half of his NSA briefings over the past year?

And where was Obama at 3:00 AM while the tweets coming out of the State Department (for 9 hours) were blaming Americans and American policies before he picks up on the theme.

More power to Romney for condemning attacks on our embassies, our rights to free speech, and standing strong in the defense of freedom.

Please show us the video/text of this apology.

I'm sure Barack Obama sent the terrorists one hell of a fruit basket to make up for the past 11 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2012 03:43PM by p8712.

Quote
swampy
$tevie how do you justify this administration's apology to terrorists who besiege our embassies and kill our citizens?

I encourage more comments like this from the GOP and supporters.

Really.

It's like a post convention bounce booster.

However, as several media outlets have pointed out, Romney's criticism actually referred to a statements released by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo before the American officials were killed in Libya. The embassy, which sought to ease tensions with protesters, condemned the "continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the feelings of Muslims -- as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions."

"Mitt Romney Continues to Blast Obama For 'Disgraceful' Libya Apology, But Republican Leaders Aren't Backing Him Up"
[www.ibtimes.com]

---

Quote
swampy
$tevie how do you justify this administration's apology to terrorists who besiege our embassies and kill our citizens?

Listen to Obama's statement, or read a transcript. And understand the "apology" was about the movie, not the attack. Read up on the movie. It was butt-ugly. You would not want that movie to speak for this country.

Twitchy is forever

[twitchy.com]

And this from Politico

The Obama administration is disavowing a statement from its own Cairo embassy that seemed to apologize for anti-Muslim activity in the United States.

"The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government," an administration official told POLITICO.

The U.S. embassy in Cairo put out a statement early Tuesday that was pegged to anger over an anti-Muslim film being circulated by an Israeli-American real estate developer.

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions," the embassy said in a statement published online.

Sounds like an apology to me.

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2012 04:05PM by swampy.

Again: talking about the movie, pre-violence. NOT talking about "apology to terrorists who besiege our embassies and kill our citizens".

You just proved yourself WRONG.

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Why do we Americans apologize for free speech?

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t

Quote
swampy
Why do we Americans apologize for free speech?

Because it's not free. Or have you forgotten Political Correctedness ? People get fired regularly for opening their mouths. in the US.

Quote
$tevie

You just proved yourself WRONG.

It's a theme within the Republican Party, it seems. I always think of The Clash record "Give 'em Enough Rope" in these instances. Eventually, if they keep talking they will do exactly what you just pointed out.

The Cairo Embassy issues a tweet apologizing for some movie that hurts some Muslim's feelings. Radicals attack two Embassies and kill four Americans. Before condeming the attackers, Obama throws our Embassy under the bus for the apology statement which apparently was not "approved".

Somehow I don't see the Embassy staff coming up with the apology all on their own. So who's great idea was it to fan the issue flames on the eve of 9/11? And why does Obama feel the need to walk it back?

Too many mixed messages.

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t

Quote
swampy
Why do we Americans apologize for free speech?

First of all condemnation of the content of someone's free speech utterances does equate to apologizing for the nation because a citizen made those utterances.

Second, there aren't any free speech utterances you would ever condemn? None? For example, suppose some male member of your church congregation published a screed where he said that there's nothing wrong with forcing young girls into sexual slavery since the little @#$%& want to do it anyway and he has come to that realization from his reading of the Bible. You wouldn't condemn that? If you did condemn that, would that be the same as apologizing for your church?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2012 04:48PM by Ted King.

CONDEMN EFFORTS != APOLOGY

Quote
Ted King
Second, there isn't any free speech utterances you would ever condemn? None? For example, suppose some male member of your church congregation published a screed where he said that there's nothing wrong with forcing young girls into sexual slavery since the little @#$%& want to do it anyway and he has come to that realization from his reading of the Bible. You wouldn't condemn that? If you did condemn that, would that be the same as apologizing for your church?

Swampy quite clearly calls for the banning of people who call her epithets that she does not approve, on this very forum.

I don't think she ever got the memo that when you are in a hole, you should stop digging.

Every post she makes = more donations to people that will be defeating her candidates.

Of course I would comdem it on both moral and legal (we do have laws about slavery and child sex) grounds. Sure he can say it. How would I be Conde ing the WHOLE church. It's the rantings of single man.

As far as this movie goes, again the rantings of a single man, but when a foreign embassy issues an apology it is speaking for the nation as if we are all complicit. WE can't control his content. WE can't control his speech. WE don't need to apologize.

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t

So, Obama's scretly ashamed of killing Bin Laden? Since they both want to destroy america.

Also Free Speech != The Right To Be Free From Criticism.

Quote
swampy
Of course I would comdem it on both moral and legal (we do have laws about slavery and child sex) grounds. Sure he can say it. How would I be Conde ing the WHOLE church. It's the rantings of single man.

As far as this movie goes, again the rantings of a single man, but when a foreign embassy issues an apology it is speaking for the nation as if we are all complicit. WE can't control his content. WE can't control his speech. WE don't need to apologize.

Of course the Obama administration would condemn that video on grounds that it is an insult to people's religion and they condemn any insult to peoples religion. Sure that guy can show his video. How would the Obama administration be condemning the WHOLE country. It's the rantings of a single man.

As far as the "it's okay for young girls to be made into sex slaves" screed goes, again the rantings of a single man, but if the pastor of the church issues an apology he/she is speaking for the whole church as if all the people in the church are complicit. The church can't control his content. The church can't control his speech. The church doesn't need to apologize.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2012 05:09PM by Ted King.

The "single man" who made the movie seems to be a mystery man. I'm suspicious about the film, personally, and what its purpose was in the first place. I know that pastor Terry Jones, the guy who likes to get people worked up, was one of the backers.
[www.huffingtonpost.com]

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2012 05:14PM by $tevie.

Quote
swampy
The Cairo Embassy issues a tweet apologizing for some movie that hurts some Muslim's feelings.

Does nobody on the right know what the definition of an apology is? Just because you don't tell someone to go to hell doesn't make it an apology.

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

ALSO you've been told over and over again that the statement was made by the embassy BEFORE the violence occurs. Pay attention for crying out loud.

From Stevie's link. Another American right wing hate group rears its ugly head. Wonder if they too were included in the government report that Republicans had squelched and screamed about.

Yes "Sam Bacile" appears so far to be a made up person, the front person for this movie.

"...we do know a bit more about Steve Klein, who told the Associated Press on Wednesday that he was a "consultant" on Bacile's film. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the former Marine was part of the controversial California "Church at Kawea," near Fresno, and a member of a "secretive cohort of militant fundamentalists" preparing for war against Muslims in spring 2012. He believed that California was riddled with Muslim Brotherhood sleeper cells "who are awaiting the trigger date and will begin randomly killing as many of us as they can."

Klein is currently listed as the "Secretary and Founder" of Courageous Christians United, a group that protests outside of Mormon temples, mosques and abortion clinics."

"There's a broader lesson to be learned here: Governor Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later, and as president, one of the things I've learned is you can't do that," Obama said in an interview with CBS News on Wednesday. "It's important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you've thought through the ramifications before you make them."

When asked if he found Romney's statement "irresponsible," Obama responded, "I'll let the American people judge that."

We will, Mr. President, we will.

Talking Points Memo has a discussion about the movie itself. It now looks clear that the people who financed and made the movie (if there even is a whole movie) are a mystery right now. There was an attempt to claim that an Israeli-American made the movie, but that seems to be a fake. It seems more likely that this was an attempt to foment anti-American feelings in the Muslim world, knowing full well that this would generate violence somewhere. The fact that some groups took advantage of this and attacked American diplomatic facilities on or about September 11 should be no surprise, and it is no accident.

I think it's fine for the American government to point out that we as a nation do not have an anti-Islam policy, and that the movie trailer on YouTube does not represent American policy. This strikes me as a pretty obvious position, and does not constitute apologizing for free speech or any of the rest of that nonsense. Of course you can point out all these things -- particularly that the right wing's big lie about Obama doing an "apology tour" is in fact a big lie -- and the forum trolls and forum tea partiers will continue to flog the argument in spite of numerous rebuttals. To continue to flog this lie shows a lack of intellectual honesty.

Shorter version: If you are going to continue to make a fool of yourself by repeating arguments shown again and again to be counter to fact, that is your problem.

Quote
swampy
Twitchy is forever

[twitchy.com]

And this from Politico

The Obama administration is disavowing a statement from its own Cairo embassy that seemed to apologize for anti-Muslim activity in the United States.

"The statement by Embassy Cairo was not cleared by Washington and does not reflect the views of the United States government," an administration official told POLITICO.

The U.S. embassy in Cairo put out a statement early Tuesday that was pegged to anger over an anti-Muslim film being circulated by an Israeli-American real estate developer.

"The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions," the embassy said in a statement published online.

Sounds like an apology to me.

Why do you have a problem with this? Free speech by individuals is one thing, but you know darned well that certain groups will seize on this video and point the finger at this country as a whole. No one in this country should be against the country's freedom of religious choice stance. I do believe it's in our constitution.

Sorry swampy, but this isn't an instance to go after Obama. The more you and Romney try, the worse you guys look.

Romney, Swampy et. al. forget that we live in a world that exists outside the borders of the United States. The idea that other cultures exist and we have to co-exist and respect them is, pardon the pun, just too foreign.

---

----------------------

I wish President Obama had simply said, "No comment.". Let his campaign staff address it in a day or two or three.

Quote
Lemon Drop
"There's a broader lesson to be learned here: Governor Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later, and as president, one of the things I've learned is you can't do that," Obama said in an interview with CBS News on Wednesday. "It's important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you've thought through the ramifications before you make them."

When asked if he found Romney's statement "irresponsible," Obama responded, "I'll let the American people judge that."

We will, Mr. President, we will.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

In today's media soundbites "No comment" is taken to mean "I have no defense".

The Democratic Party finaly woke up and isn't allowing the spin machines to run unchecked this time around. Not dignifying with a response is how Kerry got Swiftboated and so that tactic bas been retired.

---

Quote
$tevie
In today's media soundbites "No comment" is taken to mean "I have no defense".

The Democratic Party finaly woke up and isn't allowing the spin machines to run unchecked this time around. Not dignifying with a response is how Kerry got Swiftboated and so that tactic bas been retired.

Amen to that.

Quote $tevie
In today's media soundbites "No comment" is taken to mean "I have no defense".

The Democratic Party finaly woke up and isn't allowing the spin machines to run unchecked this time around. Not dignifying with a response is how Kerry got Swiftboated and so that tactic bas been retired.
------------
The Democratic Party has the media spin machine well under control, per this sound bite prior to Romney's press conference yesterday morning.

[www.therightscoop.com]

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If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2012 12:01PM by swampy.

I realize that you were trying to use my post as a taking-off-point for your post, but I was referring to controlling the Republican spin machines. But that's okay as long as you are clear on what I was saying, which I can't tell.

As for that conversation, aside from the fact that there is so much "*unintelligible*" on there that we really don't know wtf they were discussing, I'd like to say that having the press corp attempt to guarantee that a candidate will be forced to address the one question that they all want answered, and in fact the entire country probably wanted answered, is not such a terrible thing. Unless you consider a very honest and direct question like "Do you stand by your statement or regret your statement?" to be some kind of "gotcha" question. In which case we would have to say that once again Romney would be proven to be unable to run with the big dogs.

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Gottch journalism at it's best. This whole mess is Obama's Jimmyl Carter moment.

---

If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t

Quote
swampy
Gottch journalism at it's best. This whole mess is Obama's Jimmyl Carter moment.

There were twelve attacks of diplomatic facilities during George H. Bush's presidency and seven during Reagan's presidency.

[maddowblog.msnbc.com]

Quote
swampy
Gottch journalism at it's best. This whole mess is Obama's Jimmyl Carter moment.

Somebody whispered that in Romney's ear, and apparently he believed it and went on to make a complete fool of himself.
You guys should be a little more careful with your memes, your candidate seem to take them seriously.

Yeah, that whole "Jimmy Carter moment" meme, coupled with the very mysterious manner in which this film was birthed makes me pretty suspicious of the entire incident. I know, I know, tin foil hat etc. etc. We'll see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2012 01:33PM by $tevie.

Quote
swampy
Gottch journalism at it's best.

Asking a simple yes-no question which should be EASY to answer is a "gotcha"? How retarded IS Romney, exactly?

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