Watch the whole thing and re-think what happened on Sep 11. This is a smart, sensible film that breaks down the incredibly shaky elements of this event.

click on the link at this site for Loose Change-2nd edition. Watch the whole thing because some of the updated stuff at the end will cause your jaw-drop you


[www.loosechange911.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 02:41AM by Kraniac.

I think this thread belongs in the Political Ranting forum.

no reason as of yet......

> no reason as of yet..

Except that it's a link to a widely disputed propaganda film that alleges a conspiracy on the part of our government to murder 3,000 U.S. citizens for their own political gains.

This needs to be in the 'Friendly'Political Ranting forum NOT this one. This is a tips and deals and friendly discussions forum.

Even thought you say it's not ranting, itsets up a bait for ranting and is political.

Can this and the previous post be moved, please?

-- moved topic --

No, I don't need to watch it.

Why? Because like a summer blockbuster, the "jaw dropping" elements are pure fantasy.

These are the same kooks that taut smoke being pushed out of the mechanicals of WTC1&2 ahead of the collapse as "indisputable proof" for their controlled demolition theory. If you have any idea of how buildings like that are built, you would understand that such a statement is about as ludicrous as me providing "indisputable proof" that 2+2=7.

Are there elements of 9/11 that the government has not come forward with? Probably.
Are there CRITICAL, LIFE CHANGING elements of 9/11 that the government has not come forward with? Probably not.

- Shadow



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 06:38AM by shadow.

Quote
Kraniac
This is a smart, sensible film that breaks down the incredibly shaky elements of this event.

Now you done gone and made me spew my morning coffee all over the screen.

I'll be you've got a few links to Alex Jones "documentaries" too, don't you? Go on, I know you're dying to post them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 07:19AM by Mike Sellers.

Can we get this also moved off of the deals side? No reason to say MOVED, imo.

---

******************************

******************************

Hi Kraniac,

Here's some other sites you should look at if you don't already have them bookmarked:

[www.ourhollowearth.com]
[www.moonhoax.com]

I like their "disclaimer" too:

Loose Change 2nd Edition contains unlicensed footage including, without limitation, copyrighted footage owned by FOX, CNN, NBC, CSPAN and Camera Planet, as well as Gedeon and Jules Naudet and James Hanlon, directors of the documentary film entitled "9/11 - The Filmmakers' Commemorative Edition."

---

[picasaweb.google.com] [www.flickr.com]

i believe everything here too [www.coasttocoastam.com]

---

Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.

Oswald acted alone in his conspiracy to bomb Pearl Harbor with the Germans!!!

---

Don't ask who the bell's for, dude. It's you.

Yeah, I do believe that it is unhealthy to assume that all is well with any government.

Keep in mind that our governement, over the years, has been feeding the us and the entire world heaps of "propaganda" as someone called it. If you actually sit down and watch the film you will see that the guys who made this thing did some excellent research.

and, you will also see that it is not a "rant". It is a level headed well researched piece.

And no, Im not conspiracy nut. Im a guy who is raising 2 kids 16 and 13. Im a family person living in a very normal way...I coach two youth baseball teams, i pay my taxes, I vote..sometimes I even watch re-runs of the Lawrence Welk show..only because it reminds of me a kick ass, now deceased Aunty, Lucille.

Now, before you guys go and post a bunch more stupid links to sites that suggest the world is made of crunched up Oreos or some that question the moon landing...take some time and watch the movie.

I too, before seeing this, was fairly convinced that it was just a bunch of guys with box cutters...but, there were always a few items that bugged me...the main thing? Why did the towers fall so neatly...that always bothered me, especially when the first tower started falling with the top section leaning way out?

anyhow, im not goingt to get into an argument here. If you have the time to watch the the whole thing..do it and then post.

Oh, and to the guy who wondered about having any idea about how buildings like that are built...it takes a hell of a lot more than that to bring a steel and concrete building down at a rate of speed almost equal to a free fall. they just would not have fallen that quickly. I don't care what you say. The lower structure would have slowed even the largest chunks of building down...at least a little? dont you think? it took ten seconds for the whole fall. no way it's possible without some type of nudging.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 11:19AM by Kraniac.

> you will also see that it is not a "rant". It is a level headed well researched piece.

No, it's not.

The content has been covered here and at DM before. It's filled with logical fallacies. It cites to nonexistent reports and reports of reports that were faked by other propoganda pieces.

Any truth in that movie is lost in the dross.


> I don't care what you say.

That's clear.


FYI:
[wtc.nist.gov]

Sorry, the structure on the lower floors would not have given way that easily. If anything, the fall would been more jerky and inconsistant.

You take my words out of context, MacMagus, my reference was specific. There is no possible way that a building can fall into itself at the rate similar to that of a free falling object.

yeah, the content has been covered. no reason it can't be covered again. In time, the conventional theories might begin to be questioned in a more serious way. This investigation was way to cut, dried and quick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 11:58AM by Kraniac.

Sorry kraniac, you do not know what you are talking about. Against the energy released by the amount of mass falling from the collapse of the upper floors, the lower floors were not much better than tissue paper. They were designed to hold up the static mass, not that mass already falling at tens, then over a hundred feet per second. The collapse has been looked at by hundreds, if not thousands of scientists and engineers, most of whom do not work for the government. The ones who actually have expertise do not disagree with the basics of the collapse. At most they question minor details of the mechanism, not that the collapse would have proceded at a pace that would result in near free fall speeds. You have someone saying something that sounds scientific, and you are taking it as proof when it is total unscientific garbage and you can't tell the difference.

---

You don't have to be sorry,

Joe. you're right, I don't know what Im talking about. Im just a city boy trying to keep my neck above the water, an unfrozen caveman lawyer. But, I also don't totally dismiss anything in a cut and dried fashion.

For you to say I don't know what Im talking about must mean that you do know what you are talking about...you haven't proven that yet. We are equal in that respect and, hopefully, we are both here to further our respective conditions of not knowing what the @#$%& we are talking about. You have done exactly what both sides (conspiracy theorist vs a different kind of conspiracy theorist) have done. you have cited some "expert opinions" associated or not associated with the government.

Common sense can go a long way. In my opinion,the difference in time would have been greater.

I agree, the momentum and addition of weight as each floor gave way could produce incredible amounts of force leading to a fast event. But, there would have been isolated areas of resistance in the initiation of the fall. This building was overbuilt and the lower floors still had steel with integrity in the core and in the outer mesh.

You have to wonder why and how three different buildings established a precedent like this over the course of relative moments. That is, the precedent of imploding into their own footprint.

I can't tell the difference? There have been many experts, actually associated with the government, who believe that the thing was nudged and incredibly suspicious.

Hell, George Bush said he saw the first plane hit the buillding. I would never call George an expert on much of anything...but, those types of slips can be very telling...maybe not, maybe he did see the first plane hit.

Look around the world at all the little aberrations in society...massacres by governments, coups, assasinations etc., surreal scenarios that we think could never happen to us. We look at the uncivil societies in the world and believe that we, as americans, are standing on some sort of higher ground. Our governments have proven to us that they can hatch schemes behind our backs over and over again. It goes on all the time..who's to say that there is no way that this could have been designed as some sort of profound sacrifice to promote an awakening in a culture. @#$%& like this has happened before, all over the world. Just saying, you know...anything's possible...we actually did go to the moon, didnt we? I saw the whole thing on t.v. damnitt.

Quote
Kraniac
Oh, and to the guy who wondered about having any idea about how buildings like that are built...it takes a hell of a lot more than that to bring a steel and concrete building down at a rate of speed almost equal to a free fall. they just would not have fallen that quickly. I don't care what you say. The lower structure would have slowed even the largest chunks of building down...at least a little? dont you think? it took ten seconds for the whole fall. no way it's possible without some type of nudging.

It's been a while since I watched the video from kooksville, but there were a few things I noticed:

(1) They conveniently left out the top 1/4 of the building when calculating the free fall "statistic". The top story did not pancake on the floor below it and so on... the top 25% of the building fell on the floor below it and so on.
(2) They grossly over-exaggerated the siesmograph in the vertical direction which has the effect of shorting event duration by clipping the lower amplitude initial and trailing tremors.

BTW, nice diversionary tactic - instead of responding to my claim that the "evidence" presented was patently false, you moved on to a different, yet equally ridiculous claim.

Since you and your kook buddies have no idea about the basic components of a building - such as "mechanicals" - what makes you think you have ANY idea how such a building would fall??

- Shadow

Lol!

I haven't been spending much time here lately. When did they add the "Humor" forum?

Interesting argument.

But while there may be some rationale for the destructive fall of WTC 1 and WTC 2, nothing satisfactorily explains the reason WTC 7 fell that same day.

WTC 1 and 2 were different types of skyscrapers, using a completely different method of suspension that focused the main structural support on the interior "spine" of the building. Because of this fact, I think that leaves WTC 1 and 2's destruction open to possibilities.

However, WTC 7 was the typical girder and conctrete skeletal structure common to buildings all over the world. A common construction design that has withstood far worse building fires for longer periods of time without destruction of the building and without resulting in the condemnation of the building due to structual damage caused by those fires.

Yet, if you view the video footage of the collapse of WTC 7 the building falls straight down with very little resistance in a manner surprisingly similar to that of controlled demolition.

Mac,

Controlled demolition or not, if the video of WTC 7 you're referring to is the one commonly offered as evidence by the conspiracy theorists, then you need to do more homework. It was done at an angle that shows only part of the building - definitely not enough to truly guage the severity fo the damage and how it collapsed. That and sources these days do confirm WTC 7 was damaged far more than first reported.

Robert



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 01:27PM by Robert M.

Official report on why WTC 7 collapsed:

[wtc.nist.gov]

It provides a good explanation of the mechanics involved, including a time line and what columns failed and why.

- Shadow



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 01:39PM by shadow.

No 7 went down plumb and level. a perfect drop...it was as stated and documented...pulled. Something that takes months to pull of properly.

looks just like every other one of these you've seen..perfect..the roof sort of buckles and down it goes with speed. the towers did the same thing.

Joe, i do believe that we can get on with this thing without the kook card being dished.

sort of lame if you want credibility. By the way..prove to me, beyond a doubt, that it was the mechanicals that caused the explosion like images to occur ahead of the fall? How does anyone really know what that would look like..never happened this way before to steel and reinforced concrete building.

I mean, you are basing your argument on the same thing that the kooks are, empirical data coupled with accepted scientific knowledge. This has never happened before and that is all we have...prove to me that your suggestions are beyond doubt. Im not sure that you can.

" I don't know much about "No 7 went down plumb and level. a perfect drop...it was as stated and documented...pulled. Something that takes months to pull of properly. "

I do remember seeing a show on Discovery, I believe it was Discovery, that had video from many years ago with the guy (Japanese?) who designed the towers. In that piece he said that he designed the towers to do exactly what they ended up doing in just such a scenario.

Don't have the lick or the exact show, but for the buildings to come down like they did is not that far from expectation.

Believe me, I would love to see some conspiracy theme come true out of this, if for nothing else than to shut some folks up so we can move on. But the reality is we aren't going to find out much anymorre than we will find out who was behind kiling JFK.

---

Strength without compassion is brutality. Compassion without strength is weakness.

We must train our minds to desire what the situation demands.

Congratulations! You've just been promoted to full Kook status!

Quote
Kraniac
No 7 went down plumb and level. a perfect drop...it was as stated and documented...pulled. Something that takes months to pull of properly.

You do realize what the demo companies do in those "months of planning"? They go into a building, strip everything they can out, rip almost all the support out of it, and then place hundreds of charges. Each charge goes off in a very specific sequence.

Do you think the people that worked there might have noticed something?

"Hey, Bill, what's that guy doing on 14 with the jack hammer and sticks of dynamite?"
"I don't know, Bob, I think a new legal firm is moving in next week."

- Shadow

Kraniac,

Although you've already made up your mind and I sincerly doubt you have any interest whatsoever in reviewing sites that question your assertion, here is a link or two for your reading pleasure:

[www.911myths.com]

[www.geocities.com]

[www.geocities.com]

While not the best of support, it's my hope that they will make you do further research and then come to a less conspiracy-laden conclusion.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 02:19PM by Robert M.

Thank you i will try to conduct myself like a decent kook.

Don't assume that I have made up my mind in any way...why would you make this assumption? I am much more interested in hearing solid, constructive arguments against what im saying. I am in now way hoping that my own government played a pert in this. jeez dudes...with the assumptions and doubts.

And, why would you doubt that I would have any interest in reading or reviewing anything???

Just cause im now a kook doesn't mean i can't go back to accepting stuff for what it is, isn't, sorta could be with a big WHATEVER...and then kick my feet up on the couch and eat another cheeto.

Those words (doubting my "interest" in that way) sound a little like a FOX interview...some great ones featured in the Loose Change bit i posted..man, to call those guys journalists is pretty @#$%& up.

Also, why would you hope that i would do further research in order to come a "less conspiracy laden conclusion"? This was, we can all agree, a conspiracy. a conspiracy is a conspiracy...our government has conspired repeatedly in some dark and unethical @#$%& time and time again over the years...dig? you know it, everyone knows it. whomever was responsible for the whole thing, parts of it, bling bling...was part of a conspiracy.

Ok, gotta go to work now...what do i do? Im in the construction business. I am a reinforced concrete inspector and Im assigned to the new Donald Trump building in Chicago. They tore down the Sun times/daily news building to build this giant. I always enjoyed the strong horizontal of the old Sun times building, perfect for that stretch of the river.

I'll read that stuff later. Hit me hard with some real strong facts and Ill come back to the middle of the road.

By the way...that government report someone linked to up there is about as simplistic as they come. they make it look good though don't they? Don't believe anything you read...most of all, just because it has a government letterhead or logo associated with it...might be an even bigger reason to question it...those guys are shaky and looking over their shoulders. Half of the building department field inspectors in Chicago don't a have @#$%& clue as to what they are doing. They couldn't spec out load and flex requirements for a damn tile floor. same goes for NYC and a lot of the Federal Government..

Kraniac,

You definitely come across like someone who has made up his/her mind as well as a conspiracy theorist, despite your claims. The tone of your posts, the things you say, it all leads me to come to that conclusion.

Here's one from your most recent post:

"By the way...that government report someone linked to up there is about as simplistic as they come. they make it look good though don't they? Don't believe anything you read...most of all, just because it has a government letterhead or logo associated with it...might be an even bigger reason to question it...those guys are shaky and looking over their shoulders. Half of the building department field inspectors in Chicago don't a have @#$%& clue as to what they are doing. They couldn't spec out load and flex requirements for a damn tile floor. same goes for NYC and a lot of the Federal Government."

My assessment could be wrong but after reading statements like that, it seems unlikely.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2006 03:16PM by Robert M.

I've seen different videos of WTC 7's collapse and the whole thing still rings as "odd" to me.

Strangely enough, I've been involved with building implosions before when we blew up the old Dr. Pepper plant in Baltimore for the movie "Enemy of the State." I got to sit up close and personal in a shielded box within the buildings' "Kill Zone" as they detonated the building.

I've read reports about WTC 7 being "heavily damaged" however, the confusion seems to arise on how WTC was "extensively damaged."

Robert,

I don't see anything in there that suggests anything other than the fact that Im a person who takes much of what our government says with a grain of salt.

Politics relies on a patronage system where the qualified are, many times, overlooked in favor of the connected...hired by people bound in certain political favors. It is an age old tradition that fuels our political process from the highest office in the land to the grass roots level. Patronage and pork. This administration..all administrations, operate on the pork system. It bleeds it's fat through almost every bill that is introduced. It's just the way it is..sometimes it's ok...most times it is sickening. there is an entire sub-economy that is built around pork.


That is the crux of that post and it is nothing but true. So, the judgement you have arrived is, perhaps, wrong.

My mind is alwyas looking for things to take it the other way...as long as the other way seems to be the correct way. I learned a long time ago not be so sure of my strong opinions as to not listen to things that might paint me as wrong.

It's amusing to see how many people come in on posts like these and attempt to paint folks who bring up points like these for discussion, as kooks, nuts, etc. and offer no real substantive reasons why they are kooky, nutty or "conspiracy theorists"...a wonderfully vague term to toss around.

Quote
Kraniac
By the way...that government report someone linked to up there is about as simplistic as they come. they make it look good though don't they?

If that's the case, it should be trivial for you and your kook pals to pick it apart with actual facts and calculations. An "ad hominem" attack on the report itself (which, in effect, you just did) only cements your kookiness.

- Shadow

Quote
Kraniac
It's amusing to see how many people come in on posts like these and attempt to paint folks who bring up points like these for discussion, as kooks, nuts, etc. and offer no real substantive reasons why they are kooky, nutty or "conspiracy theorists"...a wonderfully vague term to toss around.

Here is what will get you labeled a "kook":

(a) your position has absolutely ZERO physical or logical support
(b) when verifiable evidence to the contrary is presented, you either ignore it, dispute it with opinions (not data or evidence), or attack the person/report that made the claim.
(c) you put the burden of proof on those that believe the widely accepted explanation

You have done all three...

Mind you, kooks _can_ turn out to be right. Some of our greatest achievements have been made by kooks. But, you have to provide backing evidence that withstands scrutiny and not just put forth unsubstantiated rumor and hearsay.

- Shadow

thanks shadow, you're correct. I'll print out the pdf and hand it over to my friend devlin, the engineer. The point was...don't believe everything you see or read, on the spot.

do you? are you in the habit of defaulting to believing everything you read because it's put out by the government?? everything offered up by our defense department? You seem like a pretty smart guy. I'd bet that you aren't a sucker for the shiny cover with some dated graphics and a bunch of math that tells you you're gonna be happy someday. do you invest money in companies with slick literature? I don't think you're the type of guy who is happy at the surface. At least, you don't present yourself that way. who knows? you could be a skimmer.

You really made see the way here....brill, next time try to actually garner what was being said, it was printed for you right there...not like it was eerily between the lines

shadow...mind you...the widely_accepted_theories_HAVE_been_proven_wrong.

The world used to be flat

Earth / the U.S. is not the center of the universe

The gods dont get as angry as people used to think they did..do...

our government actually does engage in propaganda, covert murder, schemes to turn the wind of public sentiment, the de-stabilization of many countries...involving the sacrifice of innocent life...people dont like to think it's true but it is and it has been proven time and time again...by kooks. we are the Roman empire of the modern world..we can fall down and we do engage scandalous behaviour. Who's to say that we are might and all knowing..correct in our actions? Who's to say that this event was to over the top for our governors to be involved?

you dont need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

look, you argue from the same level ignorance that i do...admit it. The widely accepted theory is possibly wrong.

After all, we have been in bed with many evil doers..Saddam, Bin Laden, Noriega.. who else.. the list goes on...most people never even knew until the @#$%& hit the fan in all of those situations...they didn't know because the people they elected did it in dark places. they don't like to believe it but it's going on right now as we sit here.

You trying to put me to rest my dear boy? It's gonna take a hell of a lot more than what you've been dishing because it's thin and run of the mill, just like me.

> The world used to be flat

That's actually a myth.

Every culture that we have a record of had the idea that the world was curved or round. The debate was over the actual shape and size. Columbus, for example, thought that the world was much smaller than it actually is. Even the Great Tortoise has a curved shell.

The way that they knew that the earth was curved was by simple observation: Anyone who climbed a tall enough hill or mountain could see that the horizon was curved.

Maybe the ideas of all the smart and educated people are right. Maybe they've climbed a few hills that you haven't.


> Earth / the U.S. is not the center of the universe

It was until a short time ago. 'Thing is, the center of the universe can be calculated any number of ways. One way is to just declare a spot the center.
[www.surveyhistory.org]


> The gods dont get as angry as people used to think they did..do...

Sorry, 'didn't know you and the gods were best buddies. It must be nice that they confide in you.

Kraniac,

Some thoughts...

> Robert,
>
> I don't see anything in there that suggests anything
> other than the fact that Im a person who takes much of
> what our government says with a grain of salt.

You've gone farther than that in your posts.

> Politics relies on a patronage system where the
> qualified are, many times, overlooked in favor of the
> connected...hired by people bound in certain political
> favors. It is an age old tradition that fuels our
> political process from the highest office in the land
> to the grass roots level. Patronage and pork. This
> administration..all administrations, operate on the
> pork system. It bleeds it's fat through almost every
> bill that is introduced. It's just the way it
> is..sometimes it's ok...most times it is sickening.
> there is an entire sub-economy that is built around
> pork.

This has absolutely nothing at all to do with the discussion at hand. Stick to your claims about the events of 9/11.

> That is the crux of that post and it is nothing but
> true. So, the judgement you have arrived is, perhaps,
> wrong.

Actually, you've just reaffirmed my conclusion.

> My mind is alwyas looking for things to take it the
> other way...as long as the other way seems to be the
> correct way. I learned a long time ago not be so sure
> of my strong opinions as to not listen to things that
> might paint me as wrong.

The idea is sound. Please follow through with it.

> It's amusing to see how many people come in on posts
> like these and attempt to paint folks who bring up
> points like these for discussion, as kooks, nuts, etc.
> and offer no real substantive reasons why they are
> kooky, nutty or "conspiracy theorists"...a wonderfully
> vague term to toss around.

Vague? Not at all. Shadow explained it well in his post. That said, allow me to add another item to his list.

(d) Instead of staying on topic, once contradicted or shown to be off-base in some manner, you switch to another that has nothing at all to do with the original.

Robert

Robert, once again, you are wrong on the (d) point, Shadow already pointed that out.

cheers dude, nice try at sounding like my daddy. However, I am your mamapappa.

cheers my son.

Kraniac,

Not at all. You're still dismissing what people say and staying off topic instead of returning to your original point. If anything, you've reaffirmed the points I made in my last post.

Thank you.

Robert

MacMagus, that is @#$%&, the earth was thought of as flat, like your white, scottish ass....you, however, are a myth while seated in your desk chair.

Naw, MacMagus, I've climbed all the hills that the smarties have, but I still see myself as being fairly stupid when it comes to the status quo of the "smart and educated". a meaningless benchmark from my point of view.

What the hell kind of tired ass metaphor is that anyhow? Sounds like a motivational poster in the beige snackroom at some corporate dumping ground.

HAVE YOU CLIMBED THE HILLS THAT THE SMART AND EDUCATED HAVE?

The smart and educated? are those terms interchangeable? neccesary for one another? couldn't it be...the smart OR educated? I've seen some incredibly stupid educated people. So educated that they just could not think outside of the box. Maybe that's part of the problem here?

How educated are you MacMag? Shadow? Robert? Kraniac? second question for all...How smart are y'all?

The last question...How stupid are you? can you recognize that quality in yourself?...same four please

My answers:

1)Im pretty damn rich if you count basement junk.
2)Im pretty darn smart if you count luck
3)Repeat the question, i was counting my two big toes, again.

I rate myself as smart when im not being incredibly stupid..depends on where you place things on the timeline...and stupid could be re defined to mean fun as hell, while being stupid.

How stupid am i? very stupid but never stupid enough to actually stay until the police got there.

My gods? no comment. Haven't found one that could count my two big toes..so yeah, im arrogant. chicks love that @#$%& though.

Oh and Robert, they could say whatever they want to about WTC 7 ok? apparently from the tone of your post up there, which seems to be influenced by a mood stabilizer, you would believe anything. your post regarding whether or not my mind was made up had, also, not a damn thing to do with the "discussion" we are having.

Silverstein clearly stated that they had to "pull it"..then he backed out and tried to cover his ass with a flimsy re definition of the phrase as did many people who made honest, on the spot comments about the event in general....As a real estate monster, he knew damn well what it meant. Similar to Bush describing how he SAW the first plane hit. Bush is THE perfect for monkey for this whole thing, isn't he? I mean, there couldn't be a better foil for all of the unbelievable crap going down under his administration. whether this a creepy "conspiracy or not", Bush is the perfect foil.

Im tempted to write the term (LOL) here because Im not sure which of you monkeys is going to come off the ropes, out of the corner with another useless set of facts (or a thin attempt at dismantling my soul, ego, brain level)...again, similar to the facts that I have...mid level facts, grabbed off the web and TV. funny that you guys can't understand that and apply it to your side of this interesting exchange of nonsense...this phenomenon is something I like to call, "macho blindness"

cheers, gentlemen

This is sounding more and more like an AppleSwitcher thread, maybe there's hope for this place yet.

---

"Who's more foolish - the fool or the fool that follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi

Wow, he finally busted a vein.

---

[picasaweb.google.com] [www.flickr.com]

Been enjoying this Don? good, im glad. Nope my veins are intact and holding pressure. What's next..should we talk about Disco Music? I looove that @#$%&...makes me want to shake my man tittties.

You're drunk, aren't you?

Sadly, I've been using this line too often lately, but...


















Kraniac, you are a moron.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

> MacMagus, that is @#$%&...

'Guess I pushed the wrong button.

Chill, dude.

Quote
Mike Sellers

Quote
Kraniac
This is a smart, sensible film that breaks down the incredibly shaky elements of this event.

Now you done gone and made me spew my morning coffee all over the screen

THAT was funny. Sorry that I'd no tim to read all the posts. I'm tired of Area 51 threads. @#$%& happens and it happened on 9/11. Quite a remarkable low tech plan that was well thought out, acknowledged the SOP of cooperating with hijackers, and... the bad result.

If I want conspiracy yarns, I'll head for the fiction shelves at the library.

Damn shame I wasted all that time studying structural engineering and still don't know how a building collapses. Amusing but sadly ignorant theories there Mr. Kraniac. But, the terms "smart" and "sensible" do not apply from an engineering viewpoint.
[www.controlled-demolition.com]


Note to self: Buy more shares of Alcoa, today! [pittsburgh.dbusinessnews.com]

Quote
Kraniac
Silverstein clearly stated that they had to "pull it"

(1) Read ANY account of ANY firefighting/rescue effort where the crew had to be removed because of dangerous conditions. You will undoubtedly see the quote "it got so bad in there, we had to pull our guys out." The word "pull" has a very specific meaning in the operation and it not just a descriptor - the implication is that the team did not want to give up (else, they could just say "we removed our guys", but they would never say that).
(2) The process of demolishing a building takes months to plans and requires hundreds or thousands of perfectly timed explosions. If, indeed, he did mean "bring the building down with explosives", it would have had to been planned for months and the work would have been obvious to anyone in the building during that time.
(3) If the demolition was planned (and part of some big conspiracy), do you honestly think he would have made the comments, knowing he was being recorded?
(4) Contrary to what bloggers have heard once (from uninformed sources) and recounted time and time again, the phrase "pull it" has absolutely no meaning in the controlled demolitions industry. When talking about the demolition process, those involved may say things like "with support removed, the lower members will pull the building inward" or "gravity will pull the top of the building down", but that is a long way from defining the phrase to mean "initiate a controlled demolition". Furthermore, the word "pull" is used only in the description of the process, not as a technical term of the process.

- Shadow

That popular mechanics article was fairly straight up and snapped me back to reality..brought back some really bad memories of the fifties though...like when i tried to build a submarine based on some drawings i found in that rag. I was at schlipps pharmacy and i picked up a copy and started reading, couldn't put it down so i stuffed it into my jacket and brought it home...had to keep that thing stashed though cause my dad had a subscription to Popular Catholicism...that submarine turned out to be nothing but a bass boat.

I just wanted to post on this side of the fence and see what goes on over here, never posted in the friendly political side of mac resource...I wish I was Larry from OWC...I wish I was Larry from OWC...I wish I was Larry from OWC....

Fellows?? lighten your respective loads. yesterday it was conspiracy. today? Im going online to find out who the @#$%& keeps taking my screwdrivers. Im pretty sure the keyword "stockpile" will be quite revealing. stay tuned.

Those guys who did this crime are going to rot in, um, islam? is that a place? Mecca? isn't that where they go when they die? Mecca-lecca hi, mecca hiney ho, Mecca-lecca hi, mecca chonny ho, A-mola mecca-molla mecca-cholla mola hey....


Do you guys like disco music? I happen to think that it was one of the most important musical periods in the history of pop music. Im thinking that Chambi's lyrics up there might make spiffy dance tune...litle four on the floor with kick drum..little high hat action, slinky bass line? what you think?

-shadow



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2006 09:35AM by Kraniac.

Yeah, it's amazing to actually track my path into moronism, Davester...go back and read all my older posts...nice guy-polite guy-ok guy-dumb guy-dickwad conspiracy theorist...it starts with calling Elmo3 a "dick" I'll bet you love that irony, huh? ...downhill from there, im sort of shocked that you guys actually took this thread so seriously. I went looking through here one day and found a bunch of old conspiracy threads...shake it loose, boys.

Im gonna sell all my macs because you guys really really hurt me bad.


-shadow



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2006 09:34AM by Kraniac.