advertisement
Forums

 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 07:51AM
Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic demos
By KIRSTEN GRIESHABER [hosted.ap.org]
Associated Press
BERLIN (AP) -- The foreign ministers of Germany, France and Italy on Tuesday condemned the rise in anti-Semitic protests and violence over the conflict in Gaza, saying they will do everything possible to combat it in their countries.

"Anti-Semitic rhetoric and hostility against Jews, attacks on people of Jewish belief and synagogues have no place in our societies," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, France's Laurent Fabius and Italy's Federica Mogherini said in a joint statement issued in Brussels.

The three said that while they respect demonstrators' freedom of speech and right to assemble, they will also do everything possible to fight "acts and statements that cross the line to anti-Semitism, racism and xenophobia."

Since the outbreak of violence between Israel and Hamas, participants at anti-Israel demonstrations across Germany have frequently used anti-Semitic slogans and also called for Jews to be gassed - a reference to the killing of Jews by the Nazis in the Holocaust.

In France, pro-Palestinian youths have clashed repeatedly with police, and on Sunday set fire to cars, pillaged stores and attacked two synagogues in the Paris suburbs, while Italy has also seen pro-Palestinian demonstrations.

Jewish groups have expressed shock and disgust about the growing anti-Semitism in Germany and other European countries with strong Muslim communities.

"We have reached a new level of hatred and violence in all of Europe that cannot even be compared to the anti-Semitism seen during previous conflicts in Israel," said Stephan Kramer, director of the European office on anti-Semitism of the American Jewish Committee in Brussels.

French President Francois Hollande met Monday with Jewish and Muslim leaders in the Elysee Palace, where he told them that fighting anti-Semitism will be a "national cause."

In Berlin, police said Tuesday they had banned pro-Gaza protesters from chanting an anti-Semitic slogan at all protests in the city.

Police spokeswoman Cosima Pauluhn also said that they were investigating a sermon last week by imam Abu Bilal Ismail calling on worshippers at Berlin's Al-Nur mosque to murder Jews.

The mosque did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

At a pro-Palestinian protest in front of the Israeli embassy in Berlin on Monday, 13 protesters were detained and police were pelted with stones.

While fools are amusing themselves with specious posts on these forums, there is a real, serious problem with rising levels of violence and anti-Semitism in Europe.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 09:37AM
and while we're on the subject of diplomats--

"UN chief Ban Ki-Moon has just been speaking at a press conference with Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu in Tel Aviv.

He began by condemning rocket fire from Gaza and the use of schools, hospitals and mosques for military purposes.
"
-UK Guardian
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 22, 2014 09:45AM
The Gaza ministry of health says the number of Palestinians killed has risen to 609. An Israeli soldier has also been killed today, which, I think, takes the number of Israelis killed to 30, 28 of whom were soldiers.

Gaza Ministry of Health: Death toll climbs to 609 and over 3720 injured in the ongoing israeli aggressions. #GazaUnderAttack

[www.theguardian.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 22, 2014 09:47AM
Human Rights Watch has said that Israel should cease attacks that cause loss of civilian life and property in violation of the laws of war. It investigated eight Israeli airstrikes - including the missile attack that killed four boys on a Gaza City pier - and says that in many, if not in all cases it found no evidence of a military target. HRW also said that Palestinian armed groups have continued to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli population centres in violation of the laws of war.

Same link.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 10:04AM
"No doubt there have been many civilian casualties but I don't believe a word from Palestinian officials. They say what Hamas tell them to say or were you born yesterday?

Have you seen a single picture of a Hamas gunman since the whole episode began? Obviously not because Hamas' propaganda drive is to convince the gullible that Israel is fighting against innocent women and children."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2014 10:06AM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 10:22AM
Quote
Manlove
Human Rights Watch has said that Israel should cease attacks that cause loss of civilian life and property in violation of the laws of war. It investigated eight Israeli airstrikes - including the missile attack that killed four boys on a Gaza City pier - and says that in many, if not in all cases it found no evidence of a military target. HRW also said that Palestinian armed groups have continued to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli population centres in violation of the laws of war.
Same link.

HRW investigates 8 (Eight) out of 3600 air strikes. Great sample to cite!

and as you said
"HRW also said that Palestinian armed groups have continued to fire rockets indiscriminately at Israeli population centres in violation of the laws of war."
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 10:29AM
"Hamas' propaganda drive is to convince the gullible that Israel is fighting against innocent women and children."

Here's a Reuters slide show of 'Inside Gaza" [www.reuters.com]
Do you see ONE Hamas soldier or rocket emplacement? You're being fooled, Fool.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 22, 2014 10:32AM
[nymag.com]

"In many ways, the story of this month's eruption of violence in Israel and Palestine has been depressingly familiar. But in one interesting way it has been a little bit different from the beginning: American audiences are seeing the story of the conflict, perhaps more than ever before, through Palestinian eyes."

"If Netanyahu is so bothered by how dead Palestinians look on television then he should stop killing so many of them. "

And Steve G, before you bare your fangs and start painting dead spiders on my head, these are the words of a New York Magazine author. He also writes for New York Jewish Week.

[nymag.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: August West
Date: July 22, 2014 10:36AM
Quote

While fools are amusing themselves with specious posts on these forums...





Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: neophyte
Date: July 22, 2014 11:02AM
Quote
cbelt3
[nymag.com]

"In many ways, the story of this month's eruption of violence in Israel and Palestine has been depressingly familiar. But in one interesting way it has been a little bit different from the beginning: American audiences are seeing the story of the conflict, perhaps more than ever before, through Palestinian eyes."

"If Netanyahu is so bothered by how dead Palestinians look on television then he should stop killing so many of them. "

[nymag.com]

Ah, so Netanyahu fails to grasp what Hamas knows: "war" is fought as much through the media as it is with weapons. Perhaps American audiences would have a different perspective if the media showed rockets fired by Hamas, day after day, indiscriminately, into southern Israel. Often they are not fatal, but they ARE a terror weapon. Imagine these rockets fired from Mexico into Texas. Daily.

Netanyahu's PR people needed to film the border, showing the rockets coming in, and get the media to show the world. They didn't, and this is the result: a lopsided view.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 11:07AM
Quote
cbelt3
NY magazine article

He's talking about Hamas winning a an image war through cynical photo-ops and manipulated propaganda.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 11:33AM
Gaza is 130 sq miles, there is no reason why Hamas and children have to be in the same place.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 22, 2014 11:43AM
That's right Steve, I posted a comment from someone else that acknowledges that what both sides are doing is in violation of human rights and the "laws of war" whatever the hell that means.
The death ratio of approx. 20:1 (which you accused me in another thread of wanting to be more like one to one...ie "more Jews should die", as you put the words into my mouth!) does to a lot of the rest of the world make it look like Israel is reacting disproportionately and is in fact the aggressor. As you are well aware, there are plenty of Israelis who decry what Israel is doing to the Palestinians, and factually, many 1000's of women and childrens lives have been destroyed by Israel's repeated shelling. You can ignore whatever you want, and suits your narrative, but the rest of the world isn't.

And for the record, saying that civilian casualties are a result of civilians being used as "human shields" is a very easy way to avoid blame for the deaths of 100's from Israeli bombing. Perhaps, if there are civilians around, it is best not to bomb them. You know, it looks bad on the telly.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 22, 2014 12:04PM
FWIW, Israel has a very advanced system that attempts to minimize civilian casualties. Are you aware that the IDF robo-calls phones in buildings in and surrounding targets before a strike ? And then uses what they call a 'knock twice' method where a low yield warhead is delivered to the target roof, then the full warhead is delivered a few minutes later, assumptively giving the civilians (and of course Hamas 'troops') time to vamoose ?

The length that Israel goes to reduce civilian casualties is rather astonishing. Hamas, OTOH, considers all Israelis to be combatants. And considers all Palestinians to be combatants as well.

Of course to blame the Gazans for Hamas being in charge is like blaming North Koreans for electing 'lil Kim.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 22, 2014 12:27PM
Quote
neophyte
Imagine these rockets fired from Mexico into Texas. Daily.

Hey, just because this is something we all want doesn't mean that it's a good idea. And I'm sure the Mexican government would stop it themselves.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 12:27PM
Quote
Manlove
saying that civilian casualties are a result of civilians being used as "human shields" is a very easy way to avoid blame for the deaths of 100's from Israeli bombing. Perhaps, if there are civilians around, it is best not to bomb them.

"UN chief Ban Ki-Moon has just been speaking at a press conference with Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu in Tel Aviv. He began by condemning rocket fire from Gaza and the use of schools, hospitals and mosques for military purposes."
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 22, 2014 12:36PM
I was just reading (and was previously aware of) exactly the same thing cbelt... [www.washingtonpost.com] ...but the unfourtunate numbers still aren't indicative of restraint. Yes, of course, if Israel really flexed its military muscles it could wipe Gaza off the map (as some in Israel wish it would), so comparatively to that it seems restrained, but 20:1 doesn't look good regardless.
What was the law in the States? You were allowed to react to aggression with equal and opposite force? Since stand your ground, anything goes, but that's not the point. Israel is standing its ground and more...it is taking ground that belongs to other people and walling it off and withdrawing water supplies and in many other ways not engendering itself positively to the peoples surrounding it. I have no solution. I just hate all the deaths, and if more deaths are being caused by Israeli bombing then Israel has to be held accountable.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 22, 2014 12:51PM
Quote
Manlove
... violation of human rights and the "laws of war" whatever the hell that means.

FWIW

Hague Conventions
“After World War II, the judges of the military tribunal of the Trial of German Major War Criminals at Nuremberg Trials found that by 1939, the rules laid down in the 1907 Hague Convention were recognised by all civilised nations and were regarded as declaratory of the laws and customs of war. Under this post-war decision, a country did not have to have ratified the 1907 Hague Convention in order to be bound by them”
[en.wikipedia.org]

Geneva Conventions
“The Geneva Conventions extensively defined the basic, wartime rights of prisoners (civil and military); established protections for the wounded; and established protections for the civilians in and around a war-zone.”
[en.wikipedia.org]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: RonT
Date: July 22, 2014 12:52PM


One thing I've always wondered; With all their intelligence capabilities available to them how come the Israeli military never manages to put an
appropriately sized missile (or four) smack dab in the middle of one of these hoedowns?

Anybody know?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 12:54PM
UNRWA Condemns Placement Of Rockets, For A Second Time, In One Of Its Schools - [www.unrwa.org]
Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza
gaza
Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip. As soon as the rockets were discovered, UNRWA staff were withdrawn from the premises, and so we are unable to confirm the precise number of rockets. The school is situated between two other UNRWA schools that currently each accommodate 1,500 internally displaced persons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2014 01:18PM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 01:15PM
Quote
RonT


One thing I've always wondered; With all their intelligence capabilities available to them how come the Israeli military never manages to put an
appropriately sized missile (or four) smack dab in the middle of one of these hoedowns?

Anybody know?

1) The picture is from another much earlier time before Hamas started their rocket barrages.
2) Even so, Hamas always includes lots of kids and women as 'insurance'.
3) Now that propaganda counts more for Hamas, they don't want their 'warriors' photographed holding guns and missiles.
4) All people shown are wearing civilian clothes, even if they are Hamas soldiers.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: RonT
Date: July 22, 2014 01:33PM
So it's an old photo - the point is they hold these demonstrations fairly frequently.



They are wearing gang colors which makes them gang supporters if not outright gang members. {They are not totally innocent bystanders.} Besides they are firing rockets into Israel indiscriminately, aren't they?

Good for the goose, good for the gander. Fire away!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: August West
Date: July 22, 2014 01:44PM
nuts smiley



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: RonT
Date: July 22, 2014 01:51PM
Quote
August West
nuts smiley


nuts smiley nuts smiley
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: August West
Date: July 22, 2014 02:00PM
If you keep posting emoticons, maybe you will stop advocating the indiscriminate killing of civilian populations. Post more, brother.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
West puts short term economic sanctions on Israel.
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 22, 2014 02:32PM
Many western nations stop flights to Tel Aviv including Delta, United and USAir. Thanks, Obama.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 22, 2014 03:03PM
“Regardless of the situation, it is morally outrageous to punish individuals or families for the action of others, who have not been involved in any kind of law breaking,” said Sarit Michaeli, a spokesperson for B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights group. “In a nutshell, it is an official policy of harming the innocent.”
[www.washingtonpost.com]

So easy to find counterpoints to everything isn't it? We all have access to everything now and your 'facts' bear the same weight as mine. The difference between us is that I see the Palestinians as humans, whereas to you they are all Hamas and must be destroyed or brutally forced to flee from their homes. Any word against Israel's destruction of Gaza is instantly anti-Semitism in your mind, therefore it is impossible to talk with you.
You remind me of my father-in-law, who physically attacked me because I dared to suggest that loss of ANY human life was sad, because I had dared to equate the life of an Israeli with that of a Palestinian. In his mind he had de-humanisied Palestinans and what ever they got, they deserved. You are cut from a similar cloth. You cannot see what you cannot see. You are blinded by your certainty. 20:1 This is an atrocity that you believe is justified. I am sad for you.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 22, 2014 03:57PM
It is an atrocity and a tragedy and I wish it would stop. However, let's say it stops right this minute. All done. Over. Then what? I'm serious. What do people propose happen if the killing stops? Because everyone acts as if if the killing stops, everything will be hunky-dory and we can go back to ignoring Palestine and pretending Hamas doesn't exist.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: August West
Date: July 22, 2014 04:21PM
What is it they say, $tevie? War is the failure of diplomacy? I wish some serious effort would be put into this situation, also. It seems like that is a pipe dream in our lifetimes.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 22, 2014 06:19PM
Eventually, the Israelis will kill enough members of Hamas and enough other people - and generally just make life enough of a hell in Gaza - that they will get a cease fire that will last for perhaps months or maybe even a couple of years. But in the process they will have induced the next generation of young Gazans to replace the members of Hamas that were killed and they will launch into the next conflict with Israel. I see nothing happening on either side that will change the dynamic that has produced a seemingly never-ending saga of Israel "mowing the grass".

American presidents will be having to deal with this for a very long time - always trying to broker a solution that will never come. We should not expect any American president or her/his administration to be capable of making much of any difference, but, unfortunately, it always becomes a political game in the U.S. to pretend that the U.S. can do something to change the dynamic over the long run. (The U.S. might be able to broker a temporary stop after enough Gazans have died, but that's about all that can be done).

For myself, I would rather the U.S. just leave the whole mess to the people there to do what they feel like they have to do. I don't want the U.S. meddling in Israeli affairs - I want the U.S. to leave the Israelis to deal with it on their own. Staying engaged by trying to help Israel has, and will only continue, to harm U.S. strategic interests.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: West puts short term economic sanctions on Israel.
Posted by: neophyte
Date: July 22, 2014 06:31PM
Diplomacy is the art of negotiation between governments. Negotiation is aimed at reaching an agreement via compromise.

I think Israel would be willing to negotiate with Hamas if the result would be Hamas' recognition of Israel's legitimacy as a sovereign nation.

Sadly, the concept of negotiation and compromise seem not to be Hamas' way of doing business.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 22, 2014 06:32PM
The genesis of this conflict goes back at least many hundreds of years, but here is a long essay about one of the more recent critical periods - from 1936 to 1939 (this is an excerpt):

Quote

In late October 1938, amid the protracted Palestinian uprising against British rule and Zionism known as “the Great Revolt” (1936-39), one of the insurgents’ most important commanders, ‘Arif ‘Abd al-Raziq, addressed a pointed letter to U.S. president Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Protesting against the increasing partisanship of the United States in favor of Zionism, ‘Abd al-Raziq pointed to what rebels perceived as a contradiction between the ideals and policies of the United States, noting that “during the great war [World War I], when there were but a few thousand Jews in Palestine, it was America which proclaimed the principle of self determination, but to-day America is resolving to stifle this spirit [the Palestinian revolt] seeking… liberty.”

The letter also rejected the principle of European tutelage embedded in the Mandates imposed over the Levant and Iraq after World War I, which, in partnership with the League of Nations, gave Britain and France rule over those lands under the pretext that their peoples were being prepared by the colonial powers for future independence. Abjuring notions that an uncivilized or semi-barbarous “East” required guidance from a benevolent “West,” ‘Abd al-Raziq declared that “we do not fight because we love war, but because we have beheld your abominable purpose, seeking to rob from us Palestine, our home.” He went on to remonstrate that the Palestinians were wrongfully being made to a pay a heavy price for the crisis of European Jewry, and he challenged Roosevelt to open “the wide portals of America unto those on whom you take such compassion, for Palestine is very small and cannot provide the solution to the Jewish problem.”

‘Abd al-Raziq’s unanswered letter to President Roosevelt is suggestive of both the evolving set of institutions that underpinned and organized the Palestinian revolt—the most sustained anti-colonial insurrection in the Arab world during the interwar period—and the growing involvement of the U.S. in the Palestine question. Because it largely took the form of a peasant rebellion and because it was eventually suppressed by a deployment of British forces second in size only to the garrison in India (a country some 250 times as populous), the revolt has often been dismissed as a disorderly and chaotic failure. Yet such a view obscures more than it reveals about both the historical moment of the uprising and its place in the development of the conflict over Palestine.

The revolt began in 1936 with a six-month general strike by the Palestinians that was called to demand, among other things, the termination of Jewish immigration, which, after Hitler’s ascent to power in Germany in 1933, had surged and was rapidly altering the demography of the country. Although urban politicians and elites have been credited with leadership of the revolt, the uprising was the result of social transformations within Palestinian society, including the erosion of elite authority and the increasing mobilization of youth, workers, and peasants during the first half of the 1930s. It was these popular social forces that compelled the Arab elite to abandon its quiescent course of fruitless diplomacy and to join the popular resistance.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 07:06PM
@ Ted

The assembled armies, navies and air forces of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and pilots from the Pakistan Air Force acting in independent capacity, and by some aircraft from Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia were all involved in trying to destroy Israel and drive the 'Jews into the sea' (murder them) in 1948, 1967 and and 1972 to varying degrees.
I think you will find this is a much greater contribution to the present situation than sectarian murder plots by pro-Nazi Arabs during the 1930's.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: West puts short term economic sanctions on Israel.
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 22, 2014 07:40PM
Quote
neophyte
Diplomacy is the art of negotiation between governments. Negotiation is aimed at reaching an agreement via compromise.

I think Israel would be willing to negotiate with Hamas if the result would be Hamas' recognition of Israel's legitimacy as a sovereign nation.

Sadly, the concept of negotiation and compromise seem not to be Hamas' way of doing business.

The winners of the military conflict are usually the ones that are most willing to compromise since they have the leverage to make sure the compromise ends up giving them much more of what they want than what the losers want. I doubt that the Zionists would have been willing to settle for a compromise that gave them only Gaza and a quasi-state in the West Bank with the Palestinians controlling Jerusalem and what went in and out of those Jewish territories.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2014 07:50PM by Ted King.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 22, 2014 07:45PM
Quote
Steve G.
@ Ted

The assembled armies, navies and air forces of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq and pilots from the Pakistan Air Force acting in independent capacity, and by some aircraft from Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia were all involved in trying to destroy Israel and drive the 'Jews into the sea' (murder them) in 1948, 1967 and and 1972 to varying degrees.
I think you will find this is a much greater contribution to the present situation than sectarian murder plots by pro-Nazi Arabs during the 1930's.

No. If the British with U.S. backing had not let large numbers of Jews immigrate to Palestine in the 1930's there never would have been a war with those Arab states. You can make a moral case that the Jews ought to have been allowed to immigrate (and I'm sure there are those who would make a moral case for not letting them immigrate to Palestine), but I don't think there's any serious question that that immigration was essential to the development of the conflicts that followed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2014 07:48PM by Ted King.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 08:25PM
Had to dig all the way to:
Center for Contemporary Arab Studies241 Intercultural CenterWashington D.C. 20057-1020Phone: (202) 687.5793Fax: (202) 687.7001
for that one, Ted?

It's essentially another pro-Arab propaganda piece some of their guests shop around.
In part because the Zionist movement had long cultivated powerful allies in American political circles and the press, the Arab majority of Palestine was all but invisible and politically dismissed within the U.S. Consequently, in 1947, when Britain announced that it planned to terminate the Mandate, the U.S. pushed resolution 181 through the U.N., thereby endorsing partition and triggering the 1948 war. The Great Revolt had brought the U.S. firmly into alignment with the Zionist cause, and a decade after the Palestinians had fought tooth and nail to resist the loss and division of their homeland, U.S. backing for partition helped usher in triumph for the supporters of a Jewish state and tragedy for the Palestinians.
Gosh, Doesn't read like a PhD dissertation to me.
[ccas.georgetown.edu]



Funding
The Center is funded by the university, by grants, and by private donors. Since 1997, CCAS has served as the core of Georgetown University's National Resource Center on the Middle East and North Africa, funded by a Title VI grant from the US Department of Education. In addition, the Center hosts endowed chairs from Oman, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates, along with a chair in Human Development. A number of other private donors support scholarships for students and public lectures and symposium.

Funded by The Jamal Daniel Levant Foundation. (Rich right wing Arab Christian with close ties to Lebanon.)




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2014 08:46PM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 22, 2014 08:49PM
Quote
Steve G.
Had to dig all the way to:
Center for Contemporary Arab Studies241 Intercultural CenterWashington D.C. 20057-1020Phone: (202) 687.5793Fax: (202) 687.7001
for that one, Ted?

It's essentially another pro-Arab propaganda piece some of their guests churn out.:
In part because the Zionist movement had long cultivated powerful allies in American political circles and the press, the Arab majority of Palestine was all but invisible and politically dismissed within the U.S. Consequently, in 1947, when Britain announced that it planned to terminate the Mandate, the U.S. pushed resolution 181 through the U.N., thereby endorsing partition and triggering the 1948 war. The Great Revolt had brought the U.S. firmly into alignment with the Zionist cause, and a decade after the Palestinians had fought tooth and nail to resist the loss and division of their homeland, U.S. backing for partition helped usher in triumph for the supporters of a Jewish state and tragedy for the Palestinians.

[ccas.georgetown.edu]
Funding
The Center is funded by the university, by grants, and by private donors. Since 1997, CCAS has served as the core of Georgetown University's National Resource Center on the Middle East and North Africa, funded by a Title VI grant from the US Department of Education. In addition, the Center hosts endowed chairs from Oman, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates, along with a chair in Human Development. A number of other private donors support scholarships for students and public lectures and symposium.

Funded by The Jamal Daniel Levant Foundation. (Rich right wing Arab Christian with close ties to Lebanon.)

Specifically, what in the paper is not true? I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that the paper has historical errors if you actually show that by citing what we both agree is a reliable source.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 08:49PM
Anyway, Ted, are you presenting this as a rationale for the elimination of the State of Israel?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 22, 2014 08:52PM
Quote
Steve G.
Anyway, Ted, are you presenting this as a rationale for the elimination of the State of Israel?

Nope.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 09:16PM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Steve G.
Anyway, Ted, are you presenting this as a rationale for the elimination of the State of Israel?

Nope.

Well, that's the way these Arab-funded 'academic papers' are being used. It's an entire world-wide industry. You just happened to find one from Georgetown.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2014 09:21PM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 22, 2014 09:23PM
Quote
Ted King
Specifically, what in the paper is not true? I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that the paper has historical errors if you actually show that by citing what we both agree is a reliable source.

It is Anderson who is presented as the one contrary to the accepted interpretation of these events.

"By exploring the significance of key rebel institutions and the dynamics of popular state formation, Dr. Anderson argues for a new understanding of this pivotal moment in Palestinian history and the history of the Mandate. " [ccas.georgetown.edu]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: West puts short term economic sanctions on Israel.
Posted by: davester
Date: July 23, 2014 12:28AM
Steve G, you seem to be completely unaware of how you present to others. It is quite obvious that you have no interest in the ideas of anybody besides yourself and there is no combination of words in all existence that could be uttered that would sway you in any way at all. You are utterly closed-minded. It's a sad case and illustrative of why the middle east conflict is so intractable. Closed minds on both sides, self-perpetuating, transferred from generation to generation. Tragic!



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 23, 2014 03:25AM
"Anyway, Ted, are you presenting this as a rationale for the elimination of the State of Israel?"

Ignoring any and all arguments put forward to him, UberSteve manages yet again to accuse someone who has no stated aim, of anti-semitism and wishing the destruction of Israel.

I will not try to pretend to know what Ted's secret agenda is ( facepalm ), but will say that "we do not fight because we love war, but because we have beheld your abominable purpose, seeking to rob from us Palestine, our home" is a pretty accurate assessment of the situation to come.

Unfortunately, Israel is now a very existant country and has to be dealt with as such. Hamas' logic of trying to erase it from the map is obviously flawed and ethically impaired, but also Israel cannot further subjugate it's Arab contingency without causing further damage.
Peace talks are easy, when you hold power. Fairness is easy when the balance is more fair to your side. Israel has fault and when you and the people in power realise this and can say it aloud without fear of reprisals from within their own ranks, perhaps a way forward can be found.
But not until Israel admits that it has done wrong.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 23, 2014 07:45AM
Open borders are the best solution. Open Gaza's Egypt border and let the innocent people go. Open Israel's border and carefully inspect every molecule and put the Enemies of Israel into a properly equipped detention camp. Gitmo has a lot of room. We can deed it over to Israel. THAT would piss Cuba off.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 23, 2014 07:49AM
@ Manlove - Israel is once again protecting itself from a mass rocket barrage from Gaza after leaving in 2005. This is the third time. there have been approx 20,000 rockets fired at Israeli civilians in the past 8 years.

@ Ted - The guy's own group describes it as a rewrite of accepted history. It is clearly intended to bolster narratives against Israel's existence.

@ Davester - I'm profoundly disappointed and angered to see the same fictions, innuendo and hate-speech being recycled again and again by people who are gulled by anti-Israel propaganda. Do you honestly believe that Jews are the new Nazis or that IDF soldiers deliberately hunt down children (or all the other smears)? That is what is the standard Arab-EuroLeft chant is.

@ cbelt - Good question. Why hasn't Brother Egypt thrown open the borders to Gaza since 2005?

And for a bonus question (which is never answered by the oppression experts) - In the years 1948 -1967, when the noble Palestinian people were living in the freedom of Arab liberty on the West Bank and Gaza, why was there no Palestinian State declared? They had 19 years of the borders they profess to want nowadays and No Jews, just the way they like it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2014 07:54AM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 23, 2014 08:03AM
Quote
Steve G.
And for a bonus question (which is never answered by the oppression experts) - In the years 1948 -1967, when the noble Palestinian people were living in the freedom of Arab liberty on the West Bank and Gaza, why was there no Palestinian State declared? They had 19 years of the borders they profess to want nowadays and No Jews, just the way they like it.

A: Because nobody let them.

I expect what you WANT to say is: "Because those shiftless lazy no good Palestinian swartza are too inferior to govern themselves. They need supervision and management, like chimpanzees or retarded children. "

But I might be completely misunderstanding the inherent anti-filastin attitude in your writings. devil smiley


[en.wikipedia.org]

"In the 1949 Armistice Agreements, the West Bank was declared part of Jordanian territory and defined the interim boundary between Israel and Jordan. Jordan ruled over the West Bank from 1948 until 1967, annexing it in 1950. Jordan's annexation was never formally recognized by the international community, with the exception of the United Kingdom.[15][16]
The idea of an independent Palestinian state was not raised by the Arab populations there at the time. King Abdullah of Jordan was crowned King of Jerusalem and granted Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank and East Jerusalem Jordanian citizenship.[17]"

[en.wikipedia.org]
"The Gaza Strip acquired its current northern and eastern boundaries at the cessation of fighting in the 1948 war, confirmed by the Israel–Egypt Armistice Agreement on 24 February 1949.[8] Article V of the Agreement declared that the demarcation line was not to be an international border. At first the Gaza Strip was officially administered by the All-Palestine Government, established by the Arab League in September 1948. All-Palestine in the Gaza Strip was managed under the military authority of Egypt, functioning as puppet state, until it officially merged into the United Arab Republic and dissolved in 1959. From the time of the dissolution of the All-Palestine Government until 1967, the Gaza Strip was directly administered by an Egyptian military governor."
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 23, 2014 08:11AM
But I thought the fellow Israel-hating Arab brethren would rush to help the Palestinians to form their own state, as voted by the UN in 1948.

But let's go to the present day border blockade. Why isn't Hamas shooting rockets into Egypt? According to your logic, they should be.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 23, 2014 08:18AM
The European Foreign ministers seem to disagree with some of you.
"*The EU strongly condemns the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians. These are criminal and unjustifiable acts.

*The EU calls on Hamas to immediately put an end to these acts and to renounce violence.

*All terrorist groups in Gaza must disarm.

*The EU strongly condemns calls on the civilian population of Gaza to provide themselves as human shields.
"
[www.eu-un.europa.eu]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Manlove
Date: July 23, 2014 08:27AM
And with you it seems:

The EU condemns the loss of hundreds of civilian lives, among them many women and children. While recognizing Israel's legitimate right to defend itself against any attacks, the EU underlines that the Israeli military operation must be proportionate and in line with international humanitarian law. The EU stresses the need for protection of civilians at all times. The EU is particularly appalled by the human cost of the Israeli military operation in Shuja'iyya, and is deeply concerned at the rapidly deteriorating humanitarian situation.

Is that how you do it? Highlight the bits that you think are important and ignore the rest?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitic protests and violence
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 23, 2014 08:38AM
Quote
cbelt3
I expect what you WANT to say is: "Because those shiftless lazy no good Palestinian swartza are too inferior to govern themselves. They need supervision and management, like chimpanzees or retarded children. "
You are confusing me with Arab racist propaganda

The Middle East Media Research Institute posted video taken in 2010 of Egypt's current president, Mohamed Morsi, calling Jews the "descendants of apes and pigs." [www.theatlantic.com]

The Jerusalem Post provided this summary of his remarks: "... Morsi denounced the Palestinian Authority as a creation of "the Zionist and American enemies for the sole purpose of opposing the will of the Palestinian people." Therefore, he stressed, "No reasonable person can expect any progress on this track."

"Either [you accept] the Zionists and everything they want, or else it is war," Morsi said, "This is what these occupiers of the land of Palestine know - these blood-suckers, who attack the Palestinians, these warmongers, the descendants of apes and pigs." (You can watch Morsi deliver these remarks here=>[www.youtube.com].)

To make it clear. The Palestinians are being cruelly and cynically victimized by corrupt extremist regimes Fatah and Hamas. Being a martyr means dying so that Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah can stay in power.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2014 09:03AM by Steve G..
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 71
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020