Frankly, it shocks me that some of you on this forum..more than i had expected..seem to be laying down after a couple primaries and are willing to go with the manipulations of the DNC..so early on, wow.

Grow some bones, man. Vote for the best person. If it's Biden? ok..i can go with that. It's not Biden though..who of you would have cast that vote in the first primaries? are you a part of that lively and powerful 8 percent?

What the DNC is doing is scary and totalitarian..it is also severely lacking balls..there is a process in place..it is not the role of the DNC to micromanage and manipulate these outcomes..where the hell do you folks that say that get this crap?

and, all you have to do is look at what 'happened' to the Republicans in 2016..they were overtaken
by a candidate, a candidate who created almost instantaneous and very real energy..like it or not very real, organic and impressive energy. The candidate was dogged hard by his own party at the beginning...but they eventually swung behind him and united themselves and have completely controlled their position since then. completely.

It's a good example...WAY to much fear right now in the Dem circle...very poor decisions being made...again!
this IS what happened in 2016...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2020 08:26AM by Kraniac.

We are voting for the best person(s).

Your opinion may vary, obviously.

Funny article that frames this

Man Who Took 30 Years To Win One State Considered "electable"

Voting for the person we think will best fit our needs is the definition of democracy. Manipulation of the people is the definition of politics.

I'm heartened that Bloomie's Billions don't seem to allow him to buy the nomination.

Quote
pdq
We are voting for the best person(s).

Your opinion may vary, obviously.

'

My 'opinion' is that the DNC is a visionless organization and that folks need to stop looking at them for
direction.

Quote
cbelt3
Voting for the person we think will best fit our needs is the definition of democracy. Manipulation of the people is the definition of politics.

I'm heartened that Bloomie's Billions don't seem to allow him to buy the nomination.

BLoomie does his own self in..did you see him on CNN the other night on Lemon's show..
The guy is sort of a blank..he really is. You can see, in his eyes, that he's not really got
a plan.

Saying that Biden is exceeding expectations now, which he is, is not "laying down" it's simply noticing what is actually happening and what VOTERS did in one state. We'll see what happens today and in coming weeks, maybe he'll do poorly. I have no idea.

Kraniac you're doing a wonderful job repeating Bernie's talking points for him.

Is that who you support?

I like Elizabeth Warren and will likely vote for her in the WA primary unless she drops out before March 10. I'm voting for her because I think she'd be the best leader from among the choices we have. Not because I'm trying to guess what everybody else including the DNC is doing.

Joe needs some talking points beside "I can beat Trump and Bernie can't". I like Liz and think she'll make one hell of a Secretary of the Treasury.

The best candidate can be a moving target. Everyone seems to forget that it’s congress that controls the budget. The best candidate is one who can help down ballot races. Being president means squat as a Democrat if Republicans continue to control the senate. The best candidate can support the more progressive ideas.

Bernie is pissed that he now has to compete against fewer moderates. So sad. Either he has the numbers or he doesn’t. Winning because there were too many moderates is not winning.

I have plenty of bones to make my own decision. Informed and strategic to get what we want is not being manipulated because you disagree.

Quote
Lemon Drop
Saying that Biden is exceeding expectations now, which he is, is not "laying down" it's simply noticing what is actually happening and what VOTERS did in one state. We'll see what happens today and in coming weeks, maybe he'll do poorly. I have no idea.

Kraniac you're doing a wonderful job repeating Bernie's talking points for him.

Is that who you support?

I like Elizabeth Warren and will likely vote for her in the WA primary unless she drops out before March 10. I'm voting for her because I think she'd be the best leader from among the choices we have. Not because I'm trying to guess what everybody else including the DNC is doing.

I like Bernie as a distinct change..

I also liked Klobuchar and I like Warren..but Trump will eat her alive. He will also eat Biden alive..Biden is way not sharp these days, he can't even riff coherently on foreign policy any more..the presentation is fogged..Biden was once a go to guy on Foreign Policy issues, One fo the ackonledged experts, he could riff for days, accurately on world issues..he's way to far gone...that stumbling will increase as Trump gets at him.

Bernie is the only one who is practicing a disciplined simple and effective campaign style...hammer the points, keep it simple..that can withstand the type of crap coming our way. Is it realistic to expect Bernie to do what needs doing if he wins office? No..but if he accomplishes a few things..good on em..He remains as THE only one with countable, authentic energy.

Yesterday I heard Biden referring to Sanders as "We've got one guy running who wants to start a revolution"...those are straight up, taken from the book, Republican talking points..is that responsible, coming from a guy running in the same party and hoping (he better be) for Sanders' voters to shift over to him??? Is it? No, it's not..it's a sign that Biden continues say off the cuff, stupid @#$%&..it'll never stop..that's Biden..now magnified because his filter is almost gone due to his very clear aging issues.

Have you ever considered that Sanders may be correct? it's possible.

and no, I didnt make this post with Bernie anywhere near my scope, Im talking about the DNC..contrasted with the decisions the RNC made in 2016...we should be doing the same thing..not jacking up Biden, who, in the New Hampshire primary received 8 percent of the vote...with his history, his regional placement, and his resume? He should have been in the top three...in actuality, if he was a contender with authentic energy behind him, he should have won it...the DNC will @#$%& this up..i hope im wrong.

look at recent history regarding Biden..His hubris driven statement about being such a bad ass with regard to cash for the Ukraine..it sunk the impeachment and and it's gonna continue to sink him..I've been watching Biden for basically my entire life..non of this will stop, he's a total wild card and the ONLY reason he's here is because he was Obama's lap dog.

Quote
Kraniac

Quote
Lemon Drop
Saying that Biden is exceeding expectations now, which he is, is not "laying down" it's simply noticing what is actually happening and what VOTERS did in one state. We'll see what happens today and in coming weeks, maybe he'll do poorly. I have no idea.

Kraniac you're doing a wonderful job repeating Bernie's talking points for him.

Is that who you support?

I like Elizabeth Warren and will likely vote for her in the WA primary unless she drops out before March 10. I'm voting for her because I think she'd be the best leader from among the choices we have. Not because I'm trying to guess what everybody else including the DNC is doing.

I like Bernie as a distinct change..

I also liked Klobuchar and I like Warren..but Trump will eat her alive. He will also eat Biden alive..Biden is way not sharp these days, he can't even riff coherently on foreign policy any more..the presentation is fogged..Biden was once a go to guy on Foreign Policy issues, One fo the ackonledged experts, he could riff for days, accurately on world issues..he's way to far gone...that stumbling will increase as Trump gets at him.

Bernie is the only one who is practicing a disciplined simple and effective campaign style...hammer the points, keep it simple..that can withstand the type of crap coming our way. Is it realistic to expect Bernie to do what needs doing if he wins office? No..but if he accomplishes a few things..good on em..He remains as THE only one with countable, authentic energy.

Yesterday I heard Biden referring to Sanders as "We've got one guy running who wants to start a revolution"...those are straight up, taken from the book, Republican talking points..is that responsible, coming from a guy running in the same party and hoping (he better be) for Sanders' voters to shift over to him??? Is it? No, it's not..it's a sign that Biden continues say off the cuff, stupid @#$%&..it'll never stop..that's Biden..now magnified because his filter is almost gone due to his very clear aging issues.

Have you ever considered that Sanders may be correct? it's possible.

and no, I didnt make this post with Bernie anywhere near my scope, Im talking about the DNC..contrasted with the decisions the RNC made in 2016...we should be doing the same thing..not jacking up Biden, who, in the New Hampshire primary received 8 percent of the vote...with his history, his regional placement, and his resume? He should have been in the top three...in actuality, if he was a contender with authentic energy behind him, he should have won it...the DNC will @#$%& this up..i hope im wrong.

look at recent history regarding Biden..His hubris driven statement about being such a bad ass with regard to cash for the Ukraine..it sunk the impeachment and and it's gonna continue to sink him..I've been watching Biden for basically my entire life..non of this will stop, he's a total wild card and the ONLY reason he's here is because he was Obama's lap dog.

Sanders is "correct" about nothing. He's just a chaos agent hellbent on destroying the Democratic Party or making it bend to his feeble will. If he's so "right" why doesn't he just run as a third party and kick everybody's ass?

You started out talking about the "manipulations" of the DNC." Really? How? Why do you get to make an accusation and not explain what happened? Then other people just roll with what you said without even asking what the hell does Kraniac know that nobody else knows?

Politics is politics. Sanders is just merely the frontrunner and his opponents are going to strategize to take him out like any other frontrunner. A hallmark of Sanders and his ilk are when things don't go their way, they scream cheating, manipulation and rigging. That's just childish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2020 11:38AM by vision63.

Quote
vision63

Quote
Kraniac

Quote
Lemon Drop
Saying that Biden is exceeding expectations now, which he is, is not "laying down" it's simply noticing what is actually happening and what VOTERS did in one state. We'll see what happens today and in coming weeks, maybe he'll do poorly. I have no idea.

Kraniac you're doing a wonderful job repeating Bernie's talking points for him.

Is that who you support?

I like Elizabeth Warren and will likely vote for her in the WA primary unless she drops out before March 10. I'm voting for her because I think she'd be the best leader from among the choices we have. Not because I'm trying to guess what everybody else including the DNC is doing.

I like Bernie as a distinct change..

I also liked Klobuchar and I like Warren..but Trump will eat her alive. He will also eat Biden alive..Biden is way not sharp these days, he can't even riff coherently on foreign policy any more..the presentation is fogged..Biden was once a go to guy on Foreign Policy issues, One fo the ackonledged experts, he could riff for days, accurately on world issues..he's way to far gone...that stumbling will increase as Trump gets at him.

Bernie is the only one who is practicing a disciplined simple and effective campaign style...hammer the points, keep it simple..that can withstand the type of crap coming our way. Is it realistic to expect Bernie to do what needs doing if he wins office? No..but if he accomplishes a few things..good on em..He remains as THE only one with countable, authentic energy.

Yesterday I heard Biden referring to Sanders as "We've got one guy running who wants to start a revolution"...those are straight up, taken from the book, Republican talking points..is that responsible, coming from a guy running in the same party and hoping (he better be) for Sanders' voters to shift over to him??? Is it? No, it's not..it's a sign that Biden continues say off the cuff, stupid @#$%&..it'll never stop..that's Biden..now magnified because his filter is almost gone due to his very clear aging issues.

Have you ever considered that Sanders may be correct? it's possible.

and no, I didnt make this post with Bernie anywhere near my scope, Im talking about the DNC..contrasted with the decisions the RNC made in 2016...we should be doing the same thing..not jacking up Biden, who, in the New Hampshire primary received 8 percent of the vote...with his history, his regional placement, and his resume? He should have been in the top three...in actuality, if he was a contender with authentic energy behind him, he should have won it...the DNC will @#$%& this up..i hope im wrong.

look at recent history regarding Biden..His hubris driven statement about being such a bad ass with regard to cash for the Ukraine..it sunk the impeachment and and it's gonna continue to sink him..I've been watching Biden for basically my entire life..non of this will stop, he's a total wild card and the ONLY reason he's here is because he was Obama's lap dog.

Sanders is "correct" about nothing. He's just a chaos agent hellbent on destroying the Democratic Party or making it bend to his feeble will. If he's so "right" why doesn't he just run as a third party and kick everybody's ass?

You started out talking about the "manipulations" of the DNC." Really? How? Why do you get to make an accusation and not explain what happened? Then other people just roll with what you said without even asking what the hell does Kraniac know that nobody else knows?

Politics is politics. Sanders is just merely the frontrunner and his opponents are going to strategize to take him out like any other frontrunner. A hallmark of Sanders and his ilk are when things don't go their way, they scream cheating, manipulation and rigging. That's just childish.

I think it's pretty clear that when two major candidates withdraw and then immediately place their support behind a guy who won one primary in a state he was projected to win and didnt even rank in the previous primaries...in states closer to his turf...someone's breathing for these two...

Not too mention Biden's calling Sanders "a guy wants to start a revolution"..lol..those are Repub talky points..and it's not true, of course.

You're hypnotized, Vision. Get off the beaten path and start looking at what's going on here.

I think the thing thats worries me the most is that this sort of infighting will keep some people home from the polls. Is the DNC perfect? Nope. Are they evil? Hardly. Is Bernie perfect? Nope. Is he evil? Hardly.

---

Quote
Kraniac

Quote
vision63

Quote
Kraniac

Quote
Lemon Drop
Saying that Biden is exceeding expectations now, which he is, is not "laying down" it's simply noticing what is actually happening and what VOTERS did in one state. We'll see what happens today and in coming weeks, maybe he'll do poorly. I have no idea.

Kraniac you're doing a wonderful job repeating Bernie's talking points for him.

Is that who you support?

I like Elizabeth Warren and will likely vote for her in the WA primary unless she drops out before March 10. I'm voting for her because I think she'd be the best leader from among the choices we have. Not because I'm trying to guess what everybody else including the DNC is doing.

I like Bernie as a distinct change..

I also liked Klobuchar and I like Warren..but Trump will eat her alive. He will also eat Biden alive..Biden is way not sharp these days, he can't even riff coherently on foreign policy any more..the presentation is fogged..Biden was once a go to guy on Foreign Policy issues, One fo the ackonledged experts, he could riff for days, accurately on world issues..he's way to far gone...that stumbling will increase as Trump gets at him.

Bernie is the only one who is practicing a disciplined simple and effective campaign style...hammer the points, keep it simple..that can withstand the type of crap coming our way. Is it realistic to expect Bernie to do what needs doing if he wins office? No..but if he accomplishes a few things..good on em..He remains as THE only one with countable, authentic energy.

Yesterday I heard Biden referring to Sanders as "We've got one guy running who wants to start a revolution"...those are straight up, taken from the book, Republican talking points..is that responsible, coming from a guy running in the same party and hoping (he better be) for Sanders' voters to shift over to him??? Is it? No, it's not..it's a sign that Biden continues say off the cuff, stupid @#$%&..it'll never stop..that's Biden..now magnified because his filter is almost gone due to his very clear aging issues.

Have you ever considered that Sanders may be correct? it's possible.

and no, I didnt make this post with Bernie anywhere near my scope, Im talking about the DNC..contrasted with the decisions the RNC made in 2016...we should be doing the same thing..not jacking up Biden, who, in the New Hampshire primary received 8 percent of the vote...with his history, his regional placement, and his resume? He should have been in the top three...in actuality, if he was a contender with authentic energy behind him, he should have won it...the DNC will @#$%& this up..i hope im wrong.

look at recent history regarding Biden..His hubris driven statement about being such a bad ass with regard to cash for the Ukraine..it sunk the impeachment and and it's gonna continue to sink him..I've been watching Biden for basically my entire life..non of this will stop, he's a total wild card and the ONLY reason he's here is because he was Obama's lap dog.

Sanders is "correct" about nothing. He's just a chaos agent hellbent on destroying the Democratic Party or making it bend to his feeble will. If he's so "right" why doesn't he just run as a third party and kick everybody's ass?

You started out talking about the "manipulations" of the DNC." Really? How? Why do you get to make an accusation and not explain what happened? Then other people just roll with what you said without even asking what the hell does Kraniac know that nobody else knows?

Politics is politics. Sanders is just merely the frontrunner and his opponents are going to strategize to take him out like any other frontrunner. A hallmark of Sanders and his ilk are when things don't go their way, they scream cheating, manipulation and rigging. That's just childish.

I think it's pretty clear that when two major candidates withdraw and then immediately place their support behind a guy who won one primary in a state he was projected to win and didnt even rank in the previous primaries...in states closer to his turf...someone's breathing for these two...

Not too mention Biden's calling Sanders "a guy wants to start a revolution"..lol..those are Repub talky points..and it's not true, of course.

You're hypnotized, Vision. Get off the beaten path and start looking at what's going on here.

What's that got to do with the DNC? Campaigns can't negotiate amongst one another. Biden is seeking Kamala Harris' endorsement which she's reluctant to give. Is the DNC in the middle of that?

Even if they were, which they're not, DNC stands for the Democratic National Committee, not the Democratic Socialist National Committee.

Quote
mattkime
Is Bernie perfect? Nope. Is he evil? Hardly.

He is NOT a good person.

Just like some are "anyone but Trump", there are Democrats who are also "nominate anyone but Sanders." I count myself among them. Sanders will not only lose the election but destroy the down-ticket races as well. Even if he would manage to get elected, he won't get anything accomplished with the GOP holding the Senate (which they will with him as nominee).

Will I vote for him over Trump? hell yes, but I won't be happy with the choice

---

“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

People speculate that Sanders will trash the downstrem ticket...speculation at this point.

People, including Hillary Clinton, her people and the DNC and regualr 'folks'..speculated that she would win..bigly. that fact is undeniable.. she lost

People say 'Bernie is bad person'...Yet, all through 2016 and even now..his peers in DC say he's a good guy..on the record. Hillary herself expressed her affection for him many times..how important he was
in the gruntwork of writing many bills with her..on the record

"Anyone but Trump"...but the Repubs saw the ACTUAL energy and closed ranks around him..no hesitation. there is power in that. proven.

If Biden can continue to win and garner delegates, and show that he's the candidate, and show that he's not a boilerplate for business as usual, I'll vote for him without a moments hesitation...Boomberg, too..lol

Bernie is THE only candidate running on actual momentum and actual, organic energy..Biden, no way, his status is being manufactured right now, and it's @#$%&.

And if you believe he has actual energy and loyalty with the greater peeps? You're nuts. 8% percent in a northern state like New Hampshire tells that story...that's a fact.

Southern state voters sank the Sanders campaign 4 years ago and may again this year, voters from states the Dems are never going to win.

Quote
RgrF
Southern state voters sank the Sanders campaign 4 years ago and may again this year, voters from states the Dems are never going to win.

Yes, it's possible that this is the breaker..im watching.

We stopped his "revolution" before and we'll stop him again. He's a fraud.

Quote
vision63
We stopped his "revolution" before and we'll stop him again. He's a fraud.

Yeah, you stopped his revolution and than handed the office to Trump in a nicely wrapped box..

Her's to win...and she blew it, monumentally, thanks a lot.

Here..go and cast your blind vote for this guy..NOT an isolated example:

Listen to him..but also, look into his eyes..he's half lost in the cloud of a man who is in fast decline.
Reminds me exactly of my Dad..Eyes that reveal a brain that is searching for something to grab hold of. Progress bar never hitting the 'finished' point.

He's done, people. You really think this man is capable of running this country and overseeing the World?


Biden's current state.

Quote
Kraniac

Quote
vision63
We stopped his "revolution" before and we'll stop him again. He's a fraud.

Yeah, you stopped his revolution and than handed the office to Trump in a nicely wrapped box..

Her's to win...and she blew it, monumentally, thanks a lot.

Again, if he's so popular 1. Why didn't he beat HER? 2. Why didn't he just run 3rd party and beat everybody? Whenever the Bernies lose they make excuses. The everybody got a trophy generation. Soft as marshmallows.

Quote
Kraniac
Grow some bones, man. Vote for the best person.

Done.

At 6:36am.

---

Quote
Kraniac
What the DNC is doing is scary and totalitarian..it is also severely lacking balls..there is a process in place..it is not the role of the DNC to micromanage and manipulate these outcomes..where the hell do you folks that say that get this crap?

Bernie was in the room when they wrote the rules. Go get your own party - this one is occupied.

---

rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future

Biden is a much worse candidate than Hillary...nuff said.

He's been terrible, scarily terrible during this Campaign, and he will get worse when the chips go down.

bag of beans...watch.

Quote
Kraniac
Biden is a much worse candidate than Hillary...nuff said.

On what metrics? You have a habit of making claims like this with zero evidence other than your opinion.

It's not "nuff said." Not enough said. Say more about how - measurably - Biden is a "much worse candidate than Hillary."

Is it likability? Polling strength in the general election? Senate legislative achievements?

Put a little meat on the bones - we're starving here.

---

rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future

Quote
rjmacs

Quote
Kraniac
Biden is a much worse candidate than Hillary...nuff said.

On what metrics? You have a habit of making claims like this with zero evidence other than your opinion.

It's not "nuff said." Not enough said. Say more about how - measurably - Biden is a "much worse candidate than Hillary."

Is it likability? Polling strength in the general election? Senate legislative achievements?

Put a little meat on the bones - we're starving here.

LOL...i knew you had this topic flagged

Simmer down Macs, you know im right..Biden has a history of being a horrible presidential candidate..he sucks..you know it, too. Here's the meat. A huge part of this is likeability. In fact, this race has nothing to with issues..it has to do with putting a person in there who is of a certain type...doesn't matter what kinda meat he has...a right swinging moderate with a lot of same old @#$%& ideas that don't upset the status quo, ...blah blah blah.

As for his ability to present himself..did you watch the debates? i had to leave the room when Biden spoke,,it was terrifying, the guy is in the midst of heavy reduction of his facilities You and a few others here are so dug in based on ego that nothing anyone can say will move you..fully expected.

It is of course just personal opinions, but I have serious concerns about Biden's ability to "debate" tRUmp on stage.

The only way they win is if they cheat. They cheated for example in Texas. Can we acknowledge that? If they cheat then if they're successful then we probably won't win. Whenever we win or lose, if you can't acknowledge the cheating then you're cheating who you though should either win or win by more, not to mention actually lose. Until we can eliminate blatant voter suppression that primarily targets people of color then we don't know where we stand.

“Voter suppression, plain and simple”: Texas closed hundreds of polling sites in black, Latino areas
[www.salon.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2020 04:33PM by vision63.

I fail to see any manipulation. Klobuchar and Buttigieg had no chance of winning. They quit. They endorsed Biden. Now, the DNC hardly had to trick them into thinking they couldn't win. The only manipulation would be if you think they used Mind Control to force those two to endorse Biden. Or, if you are realistic, they wanted to stop Bernie. Actually, this is what the primary contests are about. It's jockeying for power. And there's always losers who quit and endorse one of the winners. Always. It's not manipulation. It's politics. The people who want the Democrats to all roll over and play dead to stay out of Bernie's way are unrealistic.

Nobody put a gun to every voter's head and made them vote for Biden. The 18 to 29 year olds that Sanders said would rampage to the polls and vote for him stayed home. Black people largely rejected him. Biden didn't even campaign in some of the states Bernie lost.

Biden vs Trump is a referendum on Trump. Sanders vs Trump is a referendum on Socialism. Nobody wants a referendum on Socialism at this point in time. They want Trump gone.

Sanders people need to stop complaining that manipulation is keeping him out of the nomination. In over 2 centuries, he is the first candidate who refuses to understand how the voting booth works.

---

Quote
$tevie
Sanders people need to stop complaining that manipulation is keeping him out of the nomination. In over 2 centuries, he is the first candidate who refuses to understand how the voting booth works.

Not to mention the nature of political parties and their governance. Parties have rules, and all party members get to help make them. Bernie got invited to help make this year's rules even though he's not a Democrat, yet he continues to whine about the rules he got.

He can always run as an independent. That's what he is anyway.

---

rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future

The real panic was that Sanders, who has alienated at least half the registered Democrats, was going to create a losing situation for the down ballot. People weren't nearly as afraid of Bernie being President as they were that he would lose the House and keep Mitch and Co. in charge of the Senate. Sensible people know that Bernie in a White House with a Republican Congress will be about as effective as a rooster with no testicles.

---