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Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 05, 2020 11:53PM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 06, 2020 12:04AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 06, 2020 12:19AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 06, 2020 12:30AM
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Quote
bfd
Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, should immediately ask the Judiciary, Commerce, Armed Services and Intelligence Committees to hold hearings on how steps can be taken to safeguard against this scenario, especially how to confront any invocation of emergency powers by the president.
… will this happen remains a crucial question. "Hope for the best; prepare for the worst."
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 06, 2020 12:34AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 06, 2020 12:47AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 06, 2020 02:32AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 06, 2020 06:58AM
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Quote
Racer X
If he loses the election, come the day that the swearing in for the new president takes place, he has NO POWER. In addition, after the election is called, any orders he gives to prevent the orderly transfer of power are unlawful, and each and every member of the US Armed forces SWORE to ignore when they took their oath. If they FOLLOW an unlawful order, they, in turn, are breaking that oath, and are subject to charges.
Our forefathers thought much of this out. Also, the 2A is in place so that if we end up with a leader who wasn't elected, won't vacate office, or is ignoring the law, they can be ousted.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 06, 2020 07:08AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: rgG
Date: July 06, 2020 07:27AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: samintx
Date: July 06, 2020 07:48AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 06, 2020 08:11AM
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Quote
Speedy
He will need to lose by a yuuuge margin so that even if it goes to the House, he will lose the support of Republicans. Those Republicans will be looking out for their own electoral skins as will Republicans at all levels of government. Even they know four more years of Trump will be a disaster and that they will be wiped out once the election has been proven to be honest. It will be worse than the elections after Pres. Nixon resigned.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 06, 2020 08:44AM
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Quote
samintx
His surrogates Tucker Carlson and Donnie Jr will be there to pound the table keeping trumism alive. Tucker is being promoted as president 2024...but I think Donnie jr will challenge him on that.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 06, 2020 09:49AM
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Quote
Racer X
If he loses the election, come the day that the swearing in for the new president takes place, he has NO POWER. In addition, after the election is called, any orders he gives to prevent the orderly transfer of power are unlawful, and each and every member of the US Armed forces SWORE to ignore when they took their oath. If they FOLLOW an unlawful order, they, in turn, are breaking that oath, and are subject to charges.
Our forefathers thought much of this out. Also, the 2A is in place so that if we end up with a leader who wasn't elected, won't vacate office, or is ignoring the law, they can be ousted.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 06, 2020 09:54AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 06, 2020 11:05AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 06, 2020 11:47AM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 06, 2020 11:56AM
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Quote
Speedy
He will need to lose by a yuuuge margin so that even if it goes to the House, he will lose the support of Republicans. Those Republicans will be looking out for their own electoral skins as will Republicans at all levels of government. Even they know four more years of Trump will be a disaster and that they will be wiped out once the election has been proven to be honest. It will be worse than the elections after Pres. Nixon resigned.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 06, 2020 12:01PM
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Quote
rjmacs
He will have to decapitate the military between now and November if he wants to accomplish this goal. Senior leadership spoke up unequivocally after the Church photo-op anti-protester violence, making clear that it is NOT appropriate to use U.S. forces in these situations.
If you start seeing high-ranking generals retiring or being forced out en masse in the coming weeks, take heed. But I have a lot of faith in our military to resist a dictator.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 06, 2020 12:07PM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 06, 2020 12:52PM
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Quote
PeterB
Quote
Racer X
If he loses the election, come the day that the swearing in for the new president takes place, he has NO POWER. In addition, after the election is called, any orders he gives to prevent the orderly transfer of power are unlawful, and each and every member of the US Armed forces SWORE to ignore when they took their oath. If they FOLLOW an unlawful order, they, in turn, are breaking that oath, and are subject to charges.
Our forefathers thought much of this out. Also, the 2A is in place so that if we end up with a leader who wasn't elected, won't vacate office, or is ignoring the law, they can be ousted.
1) He may not lose the election (but not fairly, as described in the article and by others on the forum)
2) He may lose but argue the results, to the point where it ends up becoming something that has to be investigated and/or decided by the SC, as in Gore v. Bush.
Either way, he'll try to circumvent the swearing in, so that he'll maintain his position. Sad to say, but it's a possibility that has to be considered, and as some have noted above... it's something that nobody wants to seem to touch with a 10-foot pole. The problem with NOT dealing with the possibility now is that if it were to come up, Trump could take advantage of the chaos and argue that for national security / emergency reasons, he needs to stay in office.
Here's yet another nightmare scenario: [washingtonmonthly.com]
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 06, 2020 01:14PM
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Quote
sekker
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Racer X
If he loses the election, come the day that the swearing in for the new president takes place, he has NO POWER. In addition, after the election is called, any orders he gives to prevent the orderly transfer of power are unlawful, and each and every member of the US Armed forces SWORE to ignore when they took their oath. If they FOLLOW an unlawful order, they, in turn, are breaking that oath, and are subject to charges.
Our forefathers thought much of this out. Also, the 2A is in place so that if we end up with a leader who wasn't elected, won't vacate office, or is ignoring the law, they can be ousted.
1) He may not lose the election (but not fairly, as described in the article and by others on the forum)
2) He may lose but argue the results, to the point where it ends up becoming something that has to be investigated and/or decided by the SC, as in Gore v. Bush.
Either way, he'll try to circumvent the swearing in, so that he'll maintain his position. Sad to say, but it's a possibility that has to be considered, and as some have noted above... it's something that nobody wants to seem to touch with a 10-foot pole. The problem with NOT dealing with the possibility now is that if it were to come up, Trump could take advantage of the chaos and argue that for national security / emergency reasons, he needs to stay in office.
Here's yet another nightmare scenario: [washingtonmonthly.com]
The first premise is that the election is close. We need that to simply not be true.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 06, 2020 01:24PM
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Quote
Speedy
Quote
rjmacs
He will have to decapitate the military between now and November if he wants to accomplish this goal. Senior leadership spoke up unequivocally after the Church photo-op anti-protester violence, making clear that it is NOT appropriate to use U.S. forces in these situations.
If you start seeing high-ranking generals retiring or being forced out en masse in the coming weeks, take heed. But I have a lot of faith in our military to resist a dictator.
No, the military will never get involved.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: July 06, 2020 01:40PM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 06, 2020 02:24PM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: AllGold
Date: July 06, 2020 06:54PM
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Quote
Bill in NC
Yep, I can see a "House election" (still extraordinarily unlikely) giving those Republicans fed up with taking his cr@p they've personally had to take over the last 4 years the opportunity to throw him under the bus.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 06, 2020 07:40PM
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Quote
AllGold
I would think his epic mismanagement of Covid-19 was intentional in order to create chaos and extend that chaos into the election... except I don't believe he is that competent, calculating and strategic or able to plan long term. I think it was simply incompetence, laziness and being out of touch with reality.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 06, 2020 09:45PM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 07, 2020 02:42AM
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Quote
PeterB
Quote
Racer X
If he loses the election, come the day that the swearing in for the new president takes place, he has NO POWER. In addition, after the election is called, any orders he gives to prevent the orderly transfer of power are unlawful, and each and every member of the US Armed forces SWORE to ignore when they took their oath. If they FOLLOW an unlawful order, they, in turn, are breaking that oath, and are subject to charges.
Our forefathers thought much of this out. Also, the 2A is in place so that if we end up with a leader who wasn't elected, won't vacate office, or is ignoring the law, they can be ousted.
1) He may not lose the election (but not fairly, as described in the article and by others on the forum)
2) He may lose but argue the results, to the point where it ends up becoming something that has to be investigated and/or decided by the SC, as in Gore v. Bush.
Either way, he'll try to circumvent the swearing in, so that he'll maintain his position. Sad to say, but it's a possibility that has to be considered, and as some have noted above... it's something that nobody wants to seem to touch with a 10-foot pole. The problem with NOT dealing with the possibility now is that if it were to come up, Trump could take advantage of the chaos and argue that for national security / emergency reasons, he needs to stay in office.
Here's yet another nightmare scenario: [washingtonmonthly.com]
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 07, 2020 08:48AM
|
Quote
Racer X
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Racer X
If he loses the election, come the day that the swearing in for the new president takes place, he has NO POWER. In addition, after the election is called, any orders he gives to prevent the orderly transfer of power are unlawful, and each and every member of the US Armed forces SWORE to ignore when they took their oath. If they FOLLOW an unlawful order, they, in turn, are breaking that oath, and are subject to charges.
Our forefathers thought much of this out. Also, the 2A is in place so that if we end up with a leader who wasn't elected, won't vacate office, or is ignoring the law, they can be ousted.
1) He may not lose the election (but not fairly, as described in the article and by others on the forum)
2) He may lose but argue the results, to the point where it ends up becoming something that has to be investigated and/or decided by the SC, as in Gore v. Bush.
Either way, he'll try to circumvent the swearing in, so that he'll maintain his position. Sad to say, but it's a possibility that has to be considered, and as some have noted above... it's something that nobody wants to seem to touch with a 10-foot pole. The problem with NOT dealing with the possibility now is that if it were to come up, Trump could take advantage of the chaos and argue that for national security / emergency reasons, he needs to stay in office.
Here's yet another nightmare scenario: [washingtonmonthly.com]
The swearing in is for the incoming president. Trump doesn't need to swear out. As soon as the new person swears in, the president automatically becomes the FORMER president, with no powers.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 07, 2020 01:06PM
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Quote
PeterB
Right, but I'm not sure you're seeing my point ... suppose there is no swearing in, for whatever reason? That may be Trump's game plan -- either he wins by hook or by crook, or he loses but then contests the election to the point where there is no swearing in of anybody come January. True, his term ends in January, but if either there's no election or no clear winner, it's not clear what happens at that point: [thehill.com]
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 07, 2020 02:01PM
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Quote
rjmacs
The uncertainty is as to how a temporary successor would be named, but it would very unlikely end up being the incumbent.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 07, 2020 02:30PM
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Quote
Sarcany
Quote
rjmacs
The uncertainty is as to how a temporary successor would be named, but it would very unlikely end up being the incumbent.
That's not the way it's been laid out...
The new Congress convenes January 3, 2021.
We don't just need a majority in the House at that point, but >50% states represented by a majority of democratic reps, which is a different thing.
Per the Newsweek article:
Currently, there are 26 states that have a majority Republican House delegation. 23 states have a majority Democratic delegation. There is one state, Pennsylvania, that has an evenly split delegation. Even if the Democrats were to pick up seats in Pennsylvania and hold all their 2018 House gains, the Republicans would have a 26 to 24 delegation majority.
This vote would enable Trump to retain the presidency.
The momentum of the republican machine is behind Drumpf, nomatter if he stood in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shot somebody. This is a real problem.
Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 07, 2020 03:54PM
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Re: Trump loses election, but remains in power
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 09, 2020 09:05AM
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Quote
PeterB
Unfortunately, they're both possible (but hopefully very unlikely?) scenarios.
I could very easily see Trump losing, and then contesting the election in the courts well into January. Yes, his term ends then -- but if the election is contested, then there will be no swearing in, and then we're all up the proverbial creek. Remember that this is not likely to be any sort of normal election year ... and so there could be claims of voter suppression, voter fraud, mail-in ballot fraud, etc. (I'm not saying that any of these things would necessarily be true, just that they could be claimed.) And how exactly are votes going to be counted if we're still knee-deep in the pandemic? If electronically, we already know the potential for abuse there.