Hunches, feelings and intuitions aside, there are legitimate issues that have dogged the Harris candidacy.

Walker Bragman from TMI on Harris:

During the 2020 election, Harris’s record on criminal justice proved too steep a hurdle during her party’s presidential primary just a few short months ago. She was dogged by criticism that as California Attorney General, she had been soft on white-collar crime like mortgage fraud while pursuing low-level offenses like truancy with zeal. Questions also arose about her refusal to act on her staff’s memo that identified what it called “widespread misconduct” at a financial firm run by Steve Mnuchin, who donated to her Senate campaign.

With Biden’s VP announcement expected early next month, Harris’ record is under renewed scrutiny. Biden has been trying to shore up support from his party’s skeptical activist base and Harris’ views on antitrust could present another potential stumbling block.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 03:51AM by RgrF.

Walker Bragman is one of those virulent Bernie Bots. He attacks Black women on twitter and he is full of @#$%&. None of his issues are legitimate. Everything he says, is either anecdotal, or something they all did, except for St Bernie of course. Y'all keep trying to turn her into the devil and she isn't. They always have a problem with everybody but Bernie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 04:12AM by vision63.

I like her

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Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

Bernie Bots need to learn to relax.

She is infinitely better than who is currently in the White House right now.

She's a very strong and experienced leader and hell yeah ambitious as one must be in order to become a US Senator from California.

Whether she's the Veep choice or not, the people bringing her down at this point are doing the work of Trump2020.

I hope Biden announces his choice this week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 08:56AM by Lemon Drop.

She does have a problem with that truancy obsession of hers. Threatening to jail parents for up to a year when kids skip school is not right, and while she didn't actually send parents to jail over it, she did campaign successfully to take that local law and apply it statewide where it was subject to much greater abuse.

It's reminiscent of Giuliani's war on black kids under the ridiculous "broken glass" theory of policing.

It's a wrong-headed expansion of the criminal justice system into something that should have been addressed through other means such as counseling.

---

I always compare the VP choice to the Gold Standard:

Sarah Palin.

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Lux Interior
I always compare the VP choice to the Gold Standard:

Sarah Palin.

Seriously, Sen Harris is an able candidate, but what does she bring to the table that another candidate will not?

She will not tip California to Biden, he's got it. I'd like a Southern or Midwestern Candidate. Texas has ZERO STRONG statewide female candidates, unfortunately, as does Florida (AFAIK).

---

San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

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Rolando

Quote
Lux Interior
I always compare the VP choice to the Gold Standard:

Sarah Palin.

Seriously, Sen Harris is an able candidate, but what does she bring to the table that another candidate will not?

She will not tip California to Biden, he's got it. I'd like a Southern or Midwestern Candidate. Texas has ZERO STRONG statewide female candidates, unfortunately, as does Florida (AFAIK).

At this point, I feel it's up to Mr Biden to find someone he can work with. I consider Senator Harris highly qualified. She might be better serving on the Supreme Court, but that's not up to me.

Anything else, as LD says, is doing the job of the Trump2020 campaign.

I'm certain that 99% of us will not choose to vote against a Biden presidency (if that was your leaning) based solely on his choice of VP, it's still no harm in picking out who you or I would "prefer." the problem lies in the supposed "purity" contest, where we keep rehashing some person's past ad nauseum, beyond all possible redemption. this is a problem for all candidates in the age of perfection, brought on by social media.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 10:36AM by mrbigstuff.

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mrbigstuff
I'm certain that 99% of us will not choose to vote against a Biden presidency (if that was your leaning) based solely on his choice of VP, it's still no harm in picking out who you or I would "prefer." the problem lies in the supposed "purity" contest, where we keep rehashing some person's past ad nauseum, beyond all possible redemption. this is a problem for all candidates in the age of perfection, brought on by social media.

There's nothing wrong with being an informed voter, even where you feel that you have no choice about who gets your vote.

---

She's perfectly qualified, and she'll make a fine vice president if Biden selects her. Stop bellyaching and start registering voters.

---

rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future

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Rolando

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Lux Interior
I always compare the VP choice to the Gold Standard:

Sarah Palin.

Seriously, Sen Harris is an able candidate, but what does she bring to the table that another candidate will not?

She will not tip California to Biden, he's got it. I'd like a Southern or Midwestern Candidate.

I understand your reasoning, but it’s reminiscent of 2016. Kaine was a decent guy, but he was the “safe pick” - at the time, I could just imagine the Clinton camp saying, with Kaine, we’ll get VA (which they did); that should nail down the victory (which it didn’t).

I will certainly vote for Biden if he chooses her as a VP. However, she is not an ideal candidate, and there may be better choices from his perspective. (Since none of us are inside his head or that of the vetting team, I don't see how any of us can really know who's best for him.)

I also don't think that examining the candidates (ALL of them) from a critical perspective is necessarily doing Trump's work for him-- he and the Republicans are for sure going to lob all manner of things against the candidate, so we might as well be informed beforehand.

Here's a contrasting perspective: [www.sacbee.com]

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 12:24PM by PeterB.

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pdq

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Rolando

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Lux Interior
I always compare the VP choice to the Gold Standard:

Sarah Palin.

Seriously, Sen Harris is an able candidate, but what does she bring to the table that another candidate will not?

She will not tip California to Biden, he's got it. I'd like a Southern or Midwestern Candidate.

I understand your reasoning, but it’s reminiscent of 2016. Kaine was a decent guy, but he was the “safe pick” - at the time, I could just imagine the Clinton camp saying, with Kaine, we’ll get VA (which they did); that should nail down the victory (which it didn’t).

She's far from the safest pick.

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Sarcany

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pdq

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Rolando

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Lux Interior
I always compare the VP choice to the Gold Standard:

Sarah Palin.

Seriously, Sen Harris is an able candidate, but what does she bring to the table that another candidate will not?

She will not tip California to Biden, he's got it. I'd like a Southern or Midwestern Candidate.

I understand your reasoning, but it’s reminiscent of 2016. Kaine was a decent guy, but he was the “safe pick” - at the time, I could just imagine the Clinton camp saying, with Kaine, we’ll get VA (which they did); that should nail down the victory (which it didn’t).

She's far from the safest pick.

Quite. To me, she has fire and she’s tough. My point is that it’s too easy to write her off saying what will she bring? Biden already has California. What I’m saying is, I don’t care.

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Sarcany
She does have a problem with that truancy obsession of hers. Threatening to jail parents for up to a year when kids skip school is not right, and while she didn't actually send parents to jail over it, she did campaign successfully to take that local law and apply it statewide where it was subject to much greater abuse.

It's reminiscent of Giuliani's war on black kids under the ridiculous "broken glass" theory of policing.

It's a wrong-headed expansion of the criminal justice system into something that should have been addressed through other means such as counseling.

There was nothing wrong with prosecuting delinquent parents. She's not Giuliani. She's a deeply caring person. She said she regrets it but she had no reason to feel that way. Counseling etc,' is alway tried first.

Only a handful of cases out of an untold amount were referred for prosecution. People need to stop paying attention to what The Guardian, et al, has to say.

Key facts:

Truancy is (was) completely out of control. Some counties with up to 43% truancy. Her focus was on truancy in elementary and middle schools.

Harris' prosecution of parents was prompted by statistics that show kids with a high rate of truancy go on to either, become victims of violence - or perpetrators that wind up in the justice system. Her goal was to prevent those outcomes. Most truant kids in California are generally Black and brown kids.

Her program focused on families whose kids missed 90 days or more of school. Her office MEDIATED more than 1,000 truancy cases to head them off before they reached the prosecution stage.

She obtained court orders for for six parents to keep their kids in school. 5 cooperated. Another handful were referred for prosecution. A couple of them ended up being prosecuted for more than the truancy issue and ended up in jail.

It's not ok for Black and brown kids to miss school. A City/County like San Francisco is rich with counseling and solutions designed to help families with school kids to have full participation in SFUSD. My friend works as a "Parent Liaison" who's sole purpose is to be the bridge between the schools and parents. Each school has two of them.

Was this when she was DA, or AG?

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vision63
It's not ok for Black and brown kids to miss school...

Jailing parents for truancy should never have been under consideration, let alone made into law. She was wrong.

That doesn't mean she'd do the same thing today or that she's an especially bad person when you look at her record as a whole, but it's a part of her political record that reflects upon her character and it's worth considering when judging her against other candidates.

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August West
Was this when she was DA, or AG?

The state law, (As AG) was modeled after her initiative in San Francisco (DA).

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Sarcany

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vision63
It's not ok for Black and brown kids to miss school...

Jailing parents for truancy should never have been under consideration, let alone made into law. She was wrong.

That doesn't mean she'd do the same thing today or that she's an especially bad person when you look at her record as a whole, but it's a part of her political record that reflects upon her character and it's worth considering when judging her against other candidates.

So you're saying is parents don't have to abide by the law. You already mentioned counseling. I already told you that they already offer miles of that, which is 100% true. She might skip-dance around it for politic's sake, but I don't. First of all, "she" never jailed anybody. Now, some County DA's did.

People don't love these kids or homeless people or anybody struggling. They're perfectly willing to let them go uneducated, to live in squalor on the streets, for their families to be destroyed and to have no prospects for survival. Not to mention to thrive.

You shouldn't "let" people ruin their children. You shouldn't "let" people create mass tent cities. Tough love is love too.

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vision63
People don't love these kids or homeless people or anybody struggling.

I see your point.

Jail the poor.

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I want Harris to be picked simply to see the pretzels the Trump campaign will twist themselves into during their effort to say they think "soft on white-collar crime like mortgage fraud while pursuing low-level offenses like truancy with zeal" is a bad thing.

---

Look, she was a centrist aggressive AG who sometimes made bad decisions that reflected her high level of ambition by pandering to a "tough-on-crime" ethic, even when that meant favoring optics over justice.

Now that she's in the Senate, and not acting as a prosecutor, she has a pretty strongly progressive record, which I like.

But she has done nothing that convinces me that she has a core of values. She's an opportunist. She's highly competent, smart, a good lawyer. She'd be a good VP, probably not as progressive as I would like. That doesn't make her my first choice as VP candidate.

“NOV. 29, 1994 - SACRAMENTO — Assembly Speaker Willie Brown, continuing his rush to hand out patronage jobs while he retains his powerful post, has given high-paying appointments to his former law associate and a former Alameda County prosecutor who is Brown’s frequent companion.
Brown, exercising his power even as his speakership seems near an end, named attorney Kamala Harris to the California Medical Assistance Commission, a job that pays $72,000 a year.

Harris, a former deputy district attorney in Alameda County, was described by several people at the Capitol as Brown’s girlfriend. In March, San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen called her ‘the Speaker’s new steady.’ Harris declined to be interviewed Monday and Brown’s spokeswoman did not return phone calls.

Harris accepted the appointment last week after serving six months as Brown’s appointee to the Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board, which pays $97,088 a year.“


[www.latimes.com]

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vision63
There was nothing wrong with prosecuting delinquent parents.

Except that it's insanely intolerably cruel and inhumane and creates problems rather than solving them.

---

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DeusxMac
“NOV. 29, 1994 - SACRAMENTO — Assembly Speaker Willie Brown, continuing his rush to hand out patronage jobs while he retains his powerful post, has given high-paying appointments to his former law associate and a former Alameda County prosecutor who is Brown’s frequent companion.
Brown, exercising his power even as his speakership seems near an end, named attorney Kamala Harris to the California Medical Assistance Commission, a job that pays $72,000 a year.

Harris, a former deputy district attorney in Alameda County, was described by several people at the Capitol as Brown’s girlfriend. In March, San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen called her ‘the Speaker’s new steady.’ Harris declined to be interviewed Monday and Brown’s spokeswoman did not return phone calls.

Harris accepted the appointment last week after serving six months as Brown’s appointee to the Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board, which pays $97,088 a year.“


[www.latimes.com]

This is what's known as an anecdote.

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anonymouse1
Look, she was a centrist aggressive AG who sometimes made bad decisions that reflected her high level of ambition by pandering to a "tough-on-crime" ethic, even when that meant favoring optics over justice.

Now that she's in the Senate, and not acting as a prosecutor, she has a pretty strongly progressive record, which I like.

But she has done nothing that convinces me that she has a core of values. She's an opportunist. She's highly competent, smart, a good lawyer. She'd be a good VP, probably not as progressive as I would like. That doesn't make her my first choice as VP candidate.

She was never a "centrist."

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Sarcany

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vision63
There was nothing wrong with prosecuting delinquent parents.

Except that it's insanely intolerably cruel and inhumane and creates problems rather than solving them.

Why should anybody be in jail? Make sense.

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Sarcany

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vision63
There was nothing wrong with prosecuting delinquent parents.

Except that it's insanely intolerably cruel and inhumane and creates problems rather than solving them.

There are piles of parents that belong in jail for what they do to their kids. It may not sound like the best alternative, but it's a reasonable one. I also have seen many a counselor involve law enforcement with elementary school kids, so they may even go hand in hand in a lot of cases.

I agree with PeterB, in that I don't think "better than Trump" is good enough. Clinton was "better than Trump". Just because it's better than feces doesn't mean I want to eat it. Before you say it's good enough for you, remember more people are voting than just you.

Stevie makes a really valid point too. Some of the approaches Harris has taken are pretty darn conservative. That might not be bad as far as grabbing some extra votes.

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vision63

Quote
DeusxMac
“NOV. 29, 1994 - SACRAMENTO — Assembly Speaker Willie Brown, continuing his rush to hand out patronage jobs while he retains his powerful post, has given high-paying appointments to his former law associate and a former Alameda County prosecutor who is Brown’s frequent companion.
Brown, exercising his power even as his speakership seems near an end, named attorney Kamala Harris to the California Medical Assistance Commission, a job that pays $72,000 a year.

Harris, a former deputy district attorney in Alameda County, was described by several people at the Capitol as Brown’s girlfriend. In March, San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen called her ‘the Speaker’s new steady.’ Harris declined to be interviewed Monday and Brown’s spokeswoman did not return phone calls.

Harris accepted the appointment last week after serving six months as Brown’s appointee to the Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board, which pays $97,088 a year.“


[www.latimes.com]

This is what's known as an anecdote.

Perhaps in 50 years an “anecdote”; but now, regarding a person who is potentially the next Vice President of the United States - and possibly the next President, it is germane.

anecdote - a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.

Quote
kj
There are piles of parents that belong in jail for what they do to their kids...

They're not beating their kids.

They're not molesting their kids.

This wasn't a law that addressed any prima facie unlawful or unarguably immoral behavior.

It was a bad law.

A loving parent who has to work double-shifts whose kid skips school sometimes, maybe to work or take care of other kids in the household -- or just skipping out to avoid conflicts with other kids at school -- and who can't take off from work to sit with a therapist, does not belong in jail. S/he needs help in the home.

Prison is only a solution to that problem in a crazy alternate universe 1984 post-apocalyptic fascist state where any deviation from the lily white middle-class norm is punished.

After getting that law passed and then campaigning to to bring it statewide, many parents were, in fact, jailed under her law. And then she had the gall to say that the jail terms that she pushed so hard for were an "unintended consequence."

You are wrong. Vision63 is wrong. Harris, at least, has the self-awareness to recognize that she was wrong.

---

And in a few days or week(s) we’ll learn what aspects are/were important to Biden. And then the discussion can begin again about which attributes his imperfect running mate possesses.

We have no say. It is useful to understand some background on the person who might succeed Biden in the Presidency. That's assuming the godawful mess Trump will leave behind doesn't sink his successor as it well may.

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RgrF
We have no say. It is useful to understand some background on the person who might succeed Biden in the Presidency. That's assuming the godawful mess Trump will leave behind doesn't sink his successor as it well may.

People are fickle. If the Democrats can't clean up this long-term mess in 4 years, they will be out. Unfortunately. Then the Republicans will be able to continue creating a mess.

---

The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa

Quote
DeusxMac

Quote
vision63

Quote
DeusxMac
“NOV. 29, 1994 - SACRAMENTO — Assembly Speaker Willie Brown, continuing his rush to hand out patronage jobs while he retains his powerful post, has given high-paying appointments to his former law associate and a former Alameda County prosecutor who is Brown’s frequent companion.
Brown, exercising his power even as his speakership seems near an end, named attorney Kamala Harris to the California Medical Assistance Commission, a job that pays $72,000 a year.

Harris, a former deputy district attorney in Alameda County, was described by several people at the Capitol as Brown’s girlfriend. In March, San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen called her ‘the Speaker’s new steady.’ Harris declined to be interviewed Monday and Brown’s spokeswoman did not return phone calls.

Harris accepted the appointment last week after serving six months as Brown’s appointee to the Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board, which pays $97,088 a year.“


[www.latimes.com]

This is what's known as an anecdote.

Perhaps in 50 years an “anecdote”; but now, regarding a person who is potentially the next Vice President of the United States - and possibly the next President, it is germane.

anecdote - a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.

You mentioned something that was nothing.

Quote
Sarcany

Quote
kj
There are piles of parents that belong in jail for what they do to their kids...

They're not beating their kids.

They're not molesting their kids.

This wasn't a law that addressed any prima facie unlawful or unarguably immoral behavior.

It was a bad law.

A loving parent who has to work double-shifts whose kid skips school sometimes, maybe to work or take care of other kids in the household -- or just skipping out to avoid conflicts with other kids at school -- and who can't take off from work to sit with a therapist, does not belong in jail. S/he needs help in the home.

Prison is only a solution to that problem in a crazy alternate universe 1984 post-apocalyptic fascist state where any deviation from the lily white middle-class norm is punished.

After getting that law passed and then campaigning to to bring it statewide, many parents were, in fact, jailed under her law. And then she had the gall to say that the jail terms that she pushed so hard for were an "unintended consequence."

You are wrong. Vision63 is wrong. Harris, at least, has the self-awareness to recognize that she was wrong.

Who is they? What are their names? You know 'em? But you speak for them. You guys hate Harris because she has a good chance to become the president. You think it shuts down your hoped for agenda. You only know what you heard.

All they gotta do is be a woman or some other color and all of a sudden they grow tails.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 04:14AM by vision63.

Questioning someones record now equates to hate?

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RgrF
Questioning someones record now equates to hate?

Sounds quite Trumpian.

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The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa

Quote
vision63
You guys hate Harris because she has a good chance to become the president. You think it shuts down your hoped for agenda. You only know what you heard.

All they gotta do is be a woman or some other color and all of a sudden they grow tails.

Harris is my current favorite for veep.

---

Quote
RgrF
Questioning someones record now equates to hate?

Questioning is one thing. Not being accurate is another. Make a case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2020 11:36AM by vision63.

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Sarcany

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vision63
You guys hate Harris because she has a good chance to become the president. You think it shuts down your hoped for agenda. You only know what you heard.

All they gotta do is be a woman or some other color and all of a sudden they grow tails.

Harris is my current favorite for veep.

My money is on Rice.

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vision63

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Sarcany

Quote
vision63
You guys hate Harris because she has a good chance to become the president. You think it shuts down your hoped for agenda. You only know what you heard.

All they gotta do is be a woman or some other color and all of a sudden they grow tails.

Harris is my current favorite for veep.

My money is on Rice.

I'd be okay with her as veep, but I'm not convinced that she'd be a good president.

---

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vision63

Quote
Sarcany

Quote
vision63
You guys hate Harris because she has a good chance to become the president. You think it shuts down your hoped for agenda. You only know what you heard.

All they gotta do is be a woman or some other color and all of a sudden they grow tails.

Harris is my current favorite for veep.

My money is on Rice.

I'm guessing you mean that literally.

She'd be an interesting choice. Never held elected office before. Where brain power is concerned she is the 180 from Trump.

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vision63

Quote
DeusxMac

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vision63

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DeusxMac
“NOV. 29, 1994 - SACRAMENTO — Assembly Speaker Willie Brown, continuing his rush to hand out patronage jobs while he retains his powerful post, has given high-paying appointments to his former law associate and a former Alameda County prosecutor who is Brown’s frequent companion.
Brown, exercising his power even as his speakership seems near an end, named attorney Kamala Harris to the California Medical Assistance Commission, a job that pays $72,000 a year.

Harris, a former deputy district attorney in Alameda County, was described by several people at the Capitol as Brown’s girlfriend. In March, San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen called her ‘the Speaker’s new steady.’ Harris declined to be interviewed Monday and Brown’s spokeswoman did not return phone calls.

Harris accepted the appointment last week after serving six months as Brown’s appointee to the Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board, which pays $97,088 a year.“


[www.latimes.com]

This is what's known as an anecdote.

Perhaps in 50 years an “anecdote”; but now, regarding a person who is potentially the next Vice President of the United States - and possibly the next President, it is germane.

anecdote - a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.

You mentioned something that was nothing.

Reasonable people CAN disagree.