It was worse than an embarrassing mess. It was an absolute $hit$how.

Where is John Goodman to tell Donnie to $TFU ?

To the world, Dumbf failed across the board, but his deplorable base will still look at it as a full on victory.

After this production, anyone who can still stand up for this asshat really has to go.

The next moderator needs the ability to shut off the microphone when the agreed upon rules aren't followed.

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pdq

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PeterB

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Lemon Drop
Our president just asked white supremacists to "stand by."

Yes, I caught that too, and I hope that every person of color who watched this realizes (if they were somehow in any doubt) which way the wind blows with this President.

On the CBS after-debate show, they had on Don Jr, who denied that Trump said or meant that.

Trump also directly told Wallace that he paid millions of dollars in federal income taxes, not $750 in 2016/2017. Lets go to the return and see, huh?

Both of those things can easily be fact-checked. Don Jr.'s statements of what his father said or meant are irrelevant -- what matters is what his father actually said or meant, not what his son thinks he said or meant. And as for the taxes, of course we don't all have copies of the returns yet, so we're all relying on the NYT for accurate reporting, BUT... there's the fact that this guy is the one President in recent history to NOT supply his tax returns for years now, when his opponent already has.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I'm guessing the other moderators are having that conversation right now. It's done in state-level debates - I saw part of one last night for a congressional race and they were cutting off the mic if the candidate went over their time limit or interrupted. It's very effective and since Trump refuses to respect any rules, something really needs to be done.

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I suspect it's out of respect for the Presidency, the current occupant of the WH and (hopefully) its future occupant. It's unheard of to have an incumbent who can't follow the rules, but that's what we now have.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

It's just never been needed before at this level of politics.

Like so many other things. he's abusing all of us and our institutions.

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I think they need to, if you have people who will not obey the rules, and we obviously do.

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Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

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PeterB

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I suspect it's out of respect for the Presidency, the current occupant of the WH and (hopefully) its future occupant. It's unheard of to have an incumbent who can't follow the rules, but that's what we now have.

Some respect needs to be earned. The asshat in there right now hasn't earned anything except total disdain. So as far as respect goes, it takes some to earn some. And we know for sure who has none to give.

Yet another embarrassment for the USA… If anyone even cares anymore.

I've said that from the beginning of the first debates. You have two minutes uninterrupted. Your opponent's mic is off. Your mic is cut at the end of two minutes. And if they know it's going to happen they have no excuse. Better yet, if you interrupt, the speaker gets an extra 20 seconds to talk while your mic is cut.

Pretty simple to me.

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Lemon Drop

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I'm guessing the other moderators are having that conversation right now. It's done in state-level debates - I saw part of one last night for a congressional race and they were cutting off the mic if the candidate went over their time limit or interrupted. It's very effective and since Trump refuses to respect any rules, something really needs to be done.

Mute switch may not work so well unless debater mics are very near field. Trump keeps practicing "Chopper Talk®" and may be able to talk over a mute button.

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=wr=

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

I think Samuel L Jackson would be an interesting moderator for something like this.

LOL that CNN fact-checking guy is on. Why even bother?

"So, Wolf, everything about that claim was inaccurate."

rinse, repeat

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wave rider

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Lemon Drop

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I'm guessing the other moderators are having that conversation right now. It's done in state-level debates - I saw part of one last night for a congressional race and they were cutting off the mic if the candidate went over their time limit or interrupted. It's very effective and since Trump refuses to respect any rules, something really needs to be done.

Mute switch may not work so well unless debater mics are very near field. Trump keeps practicing "Chopper Talk®" and may be able to talk over a mute button.

Exactly. I would expect that even if his mic is muted, he will shout his answers so that they can be heard.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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wurm
I've said that from the beginning of the first debates. You have two minutes uninterrupted. Your opponent's mic is off. Your mic is cut at the end of two minutes. And if they know it's going to happen they have no excuse. Better yet, if you interrupt, the speaker gets an extra 20 seconds to talk while your mic is cut.

Pretty simple to me.

Dumbf will just shout over the top of Biden. What he needs is penalties. And the biggest penalty of all will to show him the drain on Nov. 3 - the day we flush the turd.

VOTE.

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bfd

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wurm
I've said that from the beginning of the first debates. You have two minutes uninterrupted. Your opponent's mic is off. Your mic is cut at the end of two minutes. And if they know it's going to happen they have no excuse. Better yet, if you interrupt, the speaker gets an extra 20 seconds to talk while your mic is cut.

Pretty simple to me.

Dumbf will just shout over the top of Biden. What he needs is penalties. And the biggest penalty of all will to show him the drain on Nov. 3 - the day we flush the turd.

VOTE.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

There is no moderator that can truly get a handle on someone shouting on an open mic. I mean, how can you? In fact, I was quite surprised that Wallace did rebuke 45 in a way that other moderators may ne unable to do so (given Wallace's prior situation with him).

.....Trump's family sat in the audience without masks......violating the rules of the venue....

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_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

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PeterB

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I suspect it's out of respect for the Presidency, the current occupant of the WH and (hopefully) its future occupant. It's unheard of to have an incumbent who can't follow the rules, but that's what we now have.

I’d guess it’s the exact opposite of respect for the presidency.

I think the hesitation is that Trump is a complete, irrational loose cannon. There is literally no telling what he might do. Walk off? Start bellowing at the top of his lungs? Try to shanghai the other mic?

The main objective is to keep the debate alive and avoid an incident where there’s no exchange at all and possibly a collapse of the debate platform altogether. It’s a question if they’re worth keeping alive in this state, true, but at the moment it’s about mitigation of damage.

I actually watched the whole thing. I think I got through it because I was focused on Biden practically the whole time. He is definitely showing his age but his mind and his judgment are still solid. I thought he did a pretty good job of dealing with the most deranged debate performance by an opponent I've ever seen.

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Blankity Blank

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PeterB

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graylocks

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wave rider

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bfd
Chris Wallace can't handle the pressure. Please send someone with a better set of huevos to moderate the next debate or don't bother with it.

And a mute switch.

why don't they mute mics? serious question. i know some might consider it rude but others, like myself, would see it as appropriate. why don't they do that?

I suspect it's out of respect for the Presidency, the current occupant of the WH and (hopefully) its future occupant. It's unheard of to have an incumbent who can't follow the rules, but that's what we now have.

I’d guess it’s the exact opposite of respect for the presidency.

I think the hesitation is that Trump is a complete, irrational loose cannon. There is literally no telling what he might do. Walk off? Start bellowing at the top of his lungs? Try to shanghai the other mic?

The main objective is to keep the debate alive and avoid an incident where there’s no exchange at all and possibly a collapse of the debate platform altogether. It’s a question if they’re worth keeping alive in this state, true, but at the moment it’s about mitigation of damage.

I think that particular horse ("a collapse of the debate platform") has already left the barn, as of tonight. This wasn't a debate, it was a brawl / yelling match. It's easy to blame this on Chris Wallace or say that you could / could not mute the mikes, but when the participants aren't willing to play by the rules, it may make more sense to not bother with the debates in the first place. Of course, if they did that, the networks wouldn't get the viewership they need.

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Ted King
I actually watched the whole thing. I think I got through it because I was focused on Biden practically the whole time. He is definitely showing his age but his mind and his judgment are still solid. I thought he did a pretty good job of dealing with the most deranged debate performance by an opponent I've ever seen.

Agreed. Even some of the Republicans basically admit that Trump was "all heat, no light" in tonight's performance... yes, he needed to go hot, but not THIS hot... it just showed him to be the bully he is.

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Steve G.
Trump refuses to denounce white supremacy, says 'stand back and stand by' on Proud Boys movement

Already commented on in this thread ... another in a sad list of Orange Dump statements that were very revealing of the kind of clown we have in the WH right now.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2020 10:18PM by PeterB.

Trump refuses to denounce white supremacy, says 'stand back and stand by' on Proud Boys movement

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PeterB
Even some of the Republicans basically admit that Trump was "all heat, no light" in tonight's performance... yes, he needed to go hot, but not THIS hot... it just showed him to be the bully he is.

You would think that someone might have politely tried to coach him not to purse his lips and sneer whenever the other guy had the mic.

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Sarcany

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PeterB
Even some of the Republicans basically admit that Trump was "all heat, no light" in tonight's performance... yes, he needed to go hot, but not THIS hot... it just showed him to be the bully he is.

You would think that someone might have politely tried to coach him not to purse his lips and sneer whenever the other guy had the mic.

Making faces at the opponent is a given, but what I noticed was that most of the faces Orange Dump was making made him look like he was straining to do a BM, whereas most of the faces Joe was making were either smiling or laughing at Orange Dump's statements, or looking at him like he was full of manure (which he is).

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Zoom. Mute the @#$%& out and let him screen in his bunker.

BTW, nice fact-checking of the debate at Politifact.

Such as:

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Trump hit an unverified story about Biden’s son Hunter over and over again. "Why is it, just out of curiosity, the mayor of Moscow’s wife gave your son three and half million dollars," Trump said.

A Senate Republican report said the widow of the ex-mayor sent $3.5 million to an American account in 2014.

Republicans tied Hunter Biden to the account, but refused to share any documents that might substantiate that. Hunter Biden’s lawyer said he had no connection to the account. Democratic Senate staff said they’ve seen the documents that Republicans have, and that they don’t tie Hunter Biden to the account.

(Also debunked at snopes).

And a few more selected ones:

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Trump: "I’m getting (insulin) so cheap, it’s like water."
Rating: Mostly False

Trump: I paid "millions of dollars" in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017.
Rating: Disputed

Trump: Says Joe Biden "said you went to Delaware State but you forgot the name of your college."
Rating: False

Trump: "If you had good forest management you wouldn’t be getting … calls (that California’s on fire)."
Rating: False

Biden: Says Trump suggested that "maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm and that would take care of (the coronavirus)."
Rating: Needs context

Trump: "I don’t think (Kellyanne Conway) said that" riots, chaos and violence helps Trump’s cause.
Rating: She did

Trump: Says his rallies were "outdoors."
Rating: Misleading

Trump: Says Biden called African Americans "superpredators" when he did the 1994 crime bill.
Rating: No evidence

Biden: Trump is "the only one defunding" police. His budget "calls for a $400 million cut in local law enforcement assistance."
Rating: Mostly True

Not that it matters to Deplorables, but not too shabby.

Biden campaign raised $4M from 10-11 PM tonight. A new record.

Meanwhile Proud Boyz are all thrilled to have been called out by the Leader! Ready to "stand back and stand by" sir!

“ Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It”

I could only last for about 20’minutes.

Given Trump's behavior (shouting over Biden during his 2 minutes "uninterrupted), I think that the opponent's mic should be shut off during the uninterrupted periods.

My other opinion is that Biden lowered himself towards Trump's level by engaging in personal insults (clown, etc). I think that he would have done much better to behave the same way that all past presidential candidates have behaved so as to emphasize the contrast.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Biden did make a few untrue statements as well, but his were of course not nearly the whoppers that Trump's were.

And the fact that we'd have to have a debate via Zoom so as to be able to mute individuals when it's not their turn to speak, says volumes about the lows we now find ourselves in, in this country.

And I did feel that Biden lowered himself to Trump's level a couple of times, but not by referring to him as a clown. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

And as for the Proud Boys, ugh... the response is about what you'd expect: [www.nbcnews.com]

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2020 10:52PM by PeterB.

So while you guys spent two hours you'll never get back, I started to catch up with The Americans one of the best TV dramas ever.

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davester
Given Trump's behavior (shouting over Biden during his 2 minutes "uninterrupted), I think that the opponent's mic should be shut off during the uninterrupted periods.

My other opinion is that Biden lowered himself towards Trump's level by engaging in personal insults (clown, etc). I think that he would have done much better to behave the same way that all past presidential candidates have behaved so as to emphasize the contrast.

The They go low we go high can't be adhered to when the low simply continues to go even lower. No problem at all with Biden calling the orange asshat a clown. It was kinder than the asshat deserves.

If the clown shoes fit…

Biden tried. He gave decorum a shot. Maybe he should've left Dumbf to be the solo master debater, but there are plenty of people out here who are sick and tired of the orange clown and his predictable behavior. It's time for the gloves to come off and time for the bully to be put in lockdown because when it comes right down to it, the bullies of the world really only understand one kind of response.

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RgrF
So while you guys spent two hours you'll never get back, I started to catch up with The Americans one of the best TV dramas ever.

I don't agree that it was wasted time. It was historic in the sense that this might have been a necessary evil in order to take our country back from the Dumptards.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Trump’s campaign:

Trump had the “greatest debate performance in presidential history”.

Well, then.

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Lemon Drop
Our president just asked white supremacists to "stand by."

And they loved it.
“Proud Boys celebrate online after Trump's debate 'stand back and stand by' comment”
[thehill.com]

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pdq
Trump’s campaign:

Trump had the “greatest debate performance in presidential history”.

Well, then.

... because don't you know, he's the greatest President in Presidential history !!!

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

A good one re: Dumbf… He was his own tweets come to life…

Dana Bash said "It was a $hit$how" on air*.

* I didn't watch it directly so I'm not sure if it was live and uncensored on CNN, but The Late Show with Stephen Colbert showed the clip, with the offending word bleeped, of course.

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After Trump showed from early on that he was going to interrupt continually, Biden had to fight back, else he would look like Trump could intimidate him. I think Biden used the "clown" epithet one time too many, but it must have been an extraordinarily tough job to keep self control and stay focused. I understand my own feelings going in, but I thought that Biden got off at least a couple of really good lines. When Trump tried to link Biden to some supposed socialist/left wing Democratic cabal, Biden undercut that argument with "I am the Democratic Party." I don't know who thought of that line, but it was brilliant in that context -- Trump tried to come back to that argument once or twice more, but there was little to it.

And anybody who missed the fact that Trump was the jerk and being the bully from the beginning is deaf and blind. It was interesting listening to network tv commenters almost universally pointing out that the event was a disgrace, but being just a little circumspect in pointing the finger in the right direction.

In one way, Trump lost substantially because he has been trying to portray Biden as sleepy and senile, and Biden was the one who looked awake and had cogent responses.

I don't downgrade the moderator for getting bulldozed by Trump. It's not his job to be the dean of boys or the football coach. I do think that he was giving Trump some rope in the early going, and he did ask some pointed questions. He got Trump to tell the world that he paid millions of dollars in federal taxes back in 2016-17; I wonder how his campaign is going to talk its way out of the $750. You can only use that "being audited" excuse so often when even the Fox News guy is asking you directly.

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Ca Bob
When Trump tried to link Biden to some supposed socialist/left wing Democratic cabal, Biden undercut that argument with "I am the Democratic Party." I don't know who thought of that line, but it was brilliant in that context -- Trump tried to come back to that argument once or twice more, but there was little to it.

I don't think "I am the Democratic Party" was the best way to put it. He did say it was *his* platform and I think he should have stuck with that. Or maybe he could have added a better response to Trump's claim that Biden is being controlled by the "radical left" by saying "The radical left is not a candidate for the presidency, I am."

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Ca Bob
After Trump showed from early on that he was going to interrupt continually, Biden had to fight back, else he would look like Trump could intimidate him. I think Biden used the "clown" epithet one time too many, but it must have been an extraordinarily tough job to keep self control and stay focused. I understand my own feelings going in, but I thought that Biden got off at least a couple of really good lines. When Trump tried to link Biden to some supposed socialist/left wing Democratic cabal, Biden undercut that argument with "I am the Democratic Party." I don't know who thought of that line, but it was brilliant in that context -- Trump tried to come back to that argument once or twice more, but there was little to it.

And anybody who missed the fact that Trump was the jerk and being the bully from the beginning is deaf and blind. It was interesting listening to network tv commenters almost universally pointing out that the event was a disgrace, but being just a little circumspect in pointing the finger in the right direction.

In one way, Trump lost substantially because he has been trying to portray Biden as sleepy and senile, and Biden was the one who looked awake and had cogent responses.

I don't downgrade the moderator for getting bulldozed by Trump. It's not his job to be the dean of boys or the football coach. I do think that he was giving Trump some rope in the early going, and he did ask some pointed questions. He got Trump to tell the world that he paid millions of dollars in federal taxes back in 2016-17; I wonder how his campaign is going to talk its way out of the $750. You can only use that "being audited" excuse so often when even the Fox News guy is asking you directly.

The problem is that, at this point, nobody is going to really care about the $750 ... his followers will just say that he's a smart businessman and took advantage of the tax code, whereas the rest of us will say that it's just more par for the course.

Where I think Trump lost substantially is that he had to undo the perception of his being a bully and creating division. BIG fail on that one.

And I do fault the moderator for this ... it's not the first time that they've allowed things to get out of control. On the other hand, what do you do with someone like Trump who isn't going to follow the rules... that's why I'd argue that another debate would be pointless. Trump's campaign will do what they apparently did tonight, agree to the debate and the rules, then Trump just ignores them when it comes to the actual debate.

FWIW, apparently a number of sites with people able to vote on who they thought the "winner" was are giving a very slight edge to Trump. But that's being generous, and may only be based on who they thought spoke more and was more aggressive, which was obviously Trump ... being aggressive and hogging up the talk time does NOT necessarily mean you've won a debate. His followers will of course say he did great -- but I think any reasonable person objectively looking at it (including whatever few undecideds there are out there) would look at his performance and say he was a bully and that's why this debate turned into a $hit$how.

Edit: where I think Biden did really well was on speaking directly to the American people on some very specific, important topics -- particularly the coronavirus, but also the SC/ADA situation, the economy, and racial issues. The multiple times he looked straight into the camera and addressed the American people, I think he hit home with a lot of people, including some of whom might have been undecided. Trump, not so much.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2020 12:06AM by PeterB.

I didn't watch but from all the responses I've read, I doubt they had much of an audience after the first half hour.

“That was a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck," CNN's Jake Tapper told viewers after the debate ended. "That was the worst debate I have ever seen, in fact it wasn't even a debate. It was a disgrace."

Also, best quote from a FB friend: "I like Chris Wallace but the next moderator needs professional preschool experience."

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I saw a similar quote on social media: "Chris Wallace's debate performance tonight is a great reminder that kindergarten teachers are underpaid."

I wonder if, instead of reminding Trump of the rules (which really had no effect), he should have done what kindergarten teachers do with unruly children: give them a time-out. If you talk over the other candidate during their dedicated time, you lose your OWN time to speak.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB
I saw a similar quote on social media: "Chris Wallace's debate performance tonight is a great reminder that kindergarten teachers are underpaid."

I wonder if, instead of reminding Trump of the rules (which really had no effect), he should have done what kindergarten teachers do with unruly children: give them a time-out. If you talk over the other candidate during their dedicated time, you lose your OWN time to speak.

That is actually a defensible plan, although I wonder how any moderator could enforce it short of putting the candidates in separate soundproof booths.

Repeating myself here, but Biden showed that he is awake and alive, and able to handle even complex questions in a presidential manner -- he answered some with facts, ducked others with skill. At the base, that is all he had to do, because Trump had been trying to play him as somebody almost comatose in a nursing home. Instead, Biden was a bit like an alligator who only looks sleepy.

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bfd
Where is John Goodman to tell Donnie to $TFU ?

Donnie is out of his element.

I watched only the first ten minutes or so, and couldn't continue. I so wish Biden would speak in complete sentences and finish the point he intended to make. IMO, that alone would show he is so much more appropriate and competent to hold the office.

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neophyte
I watched only the first ten minutes or so, and couldn't continue. I so wish Biden would speak in complete sentences and finish the point he intended to make. IMO, that alone would show he is so much more appropriate and competent to hold the office.

He got much better as the debate went on and when Wallace made sure Biden could speak uninterrupted the VP made several very strong points, speaking directly to the people. He sounded like a leader in those moments.

Biden has never been good at debates. I remember his performances pretty clearly going back to 2008. But this was not a presidential debate in any normal sense of the term. What Biden had to do was maintain composure, which he did, get in a few barbs, which he did, not go low, which he did not even after the most immature and disgusting comments from Trump, and talk straight to the audience of his fellow Americans in a reassuring, adult, empathetic tone, which he did.

There was no policy discussion last night. If I didn't know anything about the Biden/Harris plans I would have no idea from last night. That's a huge disservice to the public. It's not Biden's fault.
As Dana Bash said - that was a shitshow.

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Ca Bob

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PeterB
I saw a similar quote on social media: "Chris Wallace's debate performance tonight is a great reminder that kindergarten teachers are underpaid."

I wonder if, instead of reminding Trump of the rules (which really had no effect), he should have done what kindergarten teachers do with unruly children: give them a time-out. If you talk over the other candidate during their dedicated time, you lose your OWN time to speak.

That is actually a defensible plan, although I wonder how any moderator could enforce it short of putting the candidates in separate soundproof booths.

Repeating myself here, but Biden showed that he is awake and alive, and able to handle even complex questions in a presidential manner -- he answered some with facts, ducked others with skill. At the base, that is all he had to do, because Trump had been trying to play him as somebody almost comatose in a nursing home. Instead, Biden was a bit like an alligator who only looks sleepy.

Simple, you have a computer or other device (or a human being) track the interruptions, then deduct that time from what you allow in the person's next response. If someone uses up all their time interrupting their opponent, then they could find themselves in a position where they can't answer any other questions because they're completely out of time.

I think this debate was an example of a great line from the old TV show Kung-Fu: “The attacker must vanquish, the defender must merely survive” ... that's precisely what Biden did last night.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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Acer

Sorry, dude.

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=TC